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The Black Roses

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1 minute ago, Svenne said:

I'm not sure why did they have done it like that or not, but from my view point it is very annoying having channels without passwords. Out of personal experience people tend to join in and start talking OOC when me or my groups members are in radio channels, I think having two radio channels could be a good thing.

You leave the open comms with the freq open so people can contact you if needs be, the other comms doesn't need a freq ID because you'd technically be on the open comms freq. Either way, it's a loophole to avoid getting demands.

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1 minute ago, Svenne said:

I'm not sure why did they have done it like that or not, but from my view point it is very annoying having channels without passwords. Out of personal experience people tend to join in and start talking OOC when me or my groups members are in radio channels, I think having two radio channels could be a good thing.

Open freq. are supposed to be Open so long as people know the freq. IC.

There are ways to bypass, like setting the Freq. number as the password and not listing it in the open comms title.

However, there's no reason to populate two freqs. and have one be private considering we don't allow it on the forums.

If someone is captured, the freq. they're in become public knowledge to their captors on they take their radios...

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1 minute ago, Mexi said:

You leave the open comms with the freq open so people can contact you if needs be, the other comms doesn't need a freq ID because you'd technically be on the open comms freq. Either way, it's a loophole to avoid getting demands.

Not sure how having a second private frequency is confusing. We have an open comms for negotiations and if people want to give us information. We have a private comms for private IG Talk for locations, strategies and general radio talk.. 

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1 minute ago, DatTurtle said:

Not sure how having a second private frequency is confusing. We have an open comms for negotiations and if people want to give us information. We have a private comms for private IG Talk for locations, strategies and general radio talk.. 

You gave out a locked channel frequency meaning that there is no way for said group to give demands, this has happened in the past because a group did this.. Akrasia a group I was in followed in suit and shortly after it was changed so that only one freq was allowed with a TS channel, that channel being the open comms.

You're still able to do what you want but with only having the open comms as a freq you don't have the ability to avoid demands, follow in suit of other groups and solve the issue.. It's not difficult.

Edited by Mexi

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4 minutes ago, Mexi said:

You leave the open comms with the freq open so people can contact you if needs be, the other comms doesn't need a freq ID because you'd technically be on the open comms freq. Either way, it's a loophole to avoid getting demands.

From personal experience I believe it was done on purpose. Many encounters with Black Roses we have attempted to negotiate and role-play out a situation but were essentially told "Fuck you, we're going to kill you all. Kill our guy, we don't care." One incident that sticks out in particular was when we had captured a member of Black Roses and held him in the church, the guy begged for his life and for us not to kill him but when we attempted to negotiate they refused outright without even hearing our demands first. Louie asked two more times if the person he was speaking to over the radio was sure if he wanted the outcome he had chosen which was "No we are not negotiating and you are going to all die for taking our guy hostage. Go ahead and kill him."

Edited by Zero

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Just now, Mexi said:

You gave out a locked channel frequency meaning that there is no way for said group to give demands, this has happened in the past because a group did this.. Akrasia a group I was in followed in suit and shortly after it was changed so that only one freq was allowed with a TS channel, that channel being the open comms.

I Gave out a private comms thinking they wouldnt meta game it. They didnt know the freq IG yet said it was 100% black roses even though they had no way of knowing.. 

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1 minute ago, DatTurtle said:

I Gave out a private comms thinking they wouldnt meta game it. They didnt know the freq IG yet said it was 100% black roses even though they had no way of knowing.. 

So you used the loophole as I mentioned previously, just as I said.. If you give out a locked channel how else are they mean't to attempt giving demands?

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1 minute ago, DatTurtle said:

I Gave out a private comms thinking they wouldnt meta game it. They didnt know the freq IG yet said it was 100% black roses even though they had no way of knowing.. 

If they were able to listen (Without being metagamed that they are there), perhaps they would know theywere listening to BR freq. Sadly because the freq. they're in was locked, they can't listen and the RP is haulted.

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Just now, Mexi said:

So you used the loophole as I mentioned previously, just as I said.. If you give out a locked channel how else are they mean't to attempt giving demands?

I Gave the private comms that they didnt know IN GAME. they instantly knew it was BR even though they shouldnt have known in character.

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4 minutes ago, Mexi said:

You leave the open comms with the freq open so people can contact you if needs be, the other comms doesn't need a freq ID because you'd technically be on the open comms freq. Either way, it's a loophole to avoid getting demands.

I'm not going to start a argument with you, all I'm saying is that having a frequency channel with a password isn't that bad of a idea. I would agree with the loophole thing if they only had one channel but they have two and one without a password.

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So to help clarify this, @DatTurtle

If you have 2 frequencies and your boy is taken hostage and gives your IC channel one, you can't refuse the people that took him hostage entry to make demands. This is usually why the only actual frequency is your Open Comms so that they can make demands there. What you cannot do is give them your private frequency and not let them in, you gave them that frequency which means they can make demands via that frequency. 

Simple fix: Have 1 frequency listed and only give that one in future. If you give that frequency ICly to hostage takers, those hostage takers can make demands over that and poke you for negotiations etc. This is exactly what the open comms frequency is there for, negotiations between 2 parties.

 

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If I Had given a freq to them and they didnt meta game it, they couldve easily gone in there and said "do you know this person" for example. Instead, they meta game knowing the private frequency being 100% black roses. again, they didnt know that IG

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1 minute ago, DatTurtle said:

If I Had given a freq to them and they didnt meta game it, they couldve easily gone in there and said "do you know this person" for example. Instead, they meta game knowing the private frequency being 100% black roses. again, they didnt know that IG

You're not supposed to have two freqs. There are people IC who are giving them IC info regarding your people and the radio freq. they use. 

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I Understand what youre saying about a private channel however if they hadnt meta gamed it they couldve very easily been let into the channel however they meta games knowing 100% that it was a BR channel even though they didnt know it IG. If they had said "ok lets see if anybody is in the freq" then sure. hop on in we will move ya in. But because meta gaming was used to confirm it was BR then it throws out any possability of further RPing within the channel.

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2 minutes ago, DatTurtle said:

If I Had given a freq to them and they didnt meta game it, they couldve easily gone in there and said "do you know this person" for example. Instead, they meta game knowing the private frequency being 100% black roses. again, they didnt know that IG

I guess you made the change after you posted the report to make yourselves look like you have more of a case? 

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1 minute ago, DatTurtle said:

If I Had given a freq to them and they didnt meta game it, they couldve easily gone in there and said "do you know this person" for example. Instead, they meta game knowing the private frequency being 100% black roses. again, they didnt know that IG

You gave them your IC comms frequency correct? As in you actually gave them 143.6 in game? If you gave them that frequency, there is no metagaming here. You gave them a frequency for them to use, which equates to your IC channel. They would therefore be able to join that channel. 

(I'm talking about this as a generalisation by the way, as a general rule / procedure)

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Just now, DatTurtle said:

I Understand what youre saying about a private channel however if they hadnt meta gamed it they couldve very easily been let into the channel however they meta games knowing 100% that it was a BR channel even though they didnt know it IG. If they had said "ok lets see if anybody is in the freq" then sure. hop on in we will move ya in. But because meta gaming was used to confirm it was BR then it throws out any possability of further RPing within the channel.

They shouldn't have to be moved. If they wanted to move into the channel to spy a little bit first, they shouldn't have to wait for someone to move them. That's why Open comms are open...

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Also, it's from the radio chatter rules, but can be applied here.

Quote

5. All frequencies and messages are treated public and all players and characters can use the conversations as IC information later in game.

No private frequencies. Judging by the attitude of most of the members of this group, I would just close the group. You guys need to buckle up on the attitude front and learn how to take criticism properly. 

Edited by Jamie

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@Para I gave them 75.5. They instantly know the freq was Black Roses EVEN THOUGH they SHOULDNT HAVE KNOWN IT IG. 75.5 Was private and nobody knew it but they instantly knew. thats what im saying is meta gaming.

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1 minute ago, DatTurtle said:

Im going to work now. cba with all this crap.

It's not crap, it's feedback that is being shrugged off once again.

In the future I'll only reply to the leader(s) of the group if this is going to become an on-going thing for no reason, thanks for replying.

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I think this is spiralling out of control, I don't want to sounds like a smart ass but guys take it to TS or PMS. 

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Just now, DatTurtle said:

@Para I gave them 75.5. They instantly know the freq was Black Roses EVEN THOUGH they SHOULDNT HAVE KNOWN IT IG. 75.5 Was private and nobody knew it but they instantly knew. thats what im saying is meta gaming.

That's not what I brought up, this is what you're missing. This isn't the report section, what I left was FEEDBACK.

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You are really pushing out the 'metagaming' claim when people are just trying to explain to you how the TS rooms should go. They aren't talking about any metagaming, they are giving you feedback for the future so this confusion doesn't happen again IG as from what I've read it's happened a few times. It's as simple as "Okay we will fix it" or "No we wanna make things difficult" Just take the feedback and move on.

Edited by Clumsy

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Feedback gets given and you are arguing about rulebreaks, again. They are trying to help your group, why not just take it and use it to improve?

 

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