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The Deal With It Attitude

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Just now, Josei said:

I edited it as SOON as I had posted it.

But, I'm learning. @Mexi poked me already with the advice.

Thank you. ;) 

But warning a thread would be saying that there would be consequences, I didn't say such things.

Soon as I sent it, Jim had already warned it. (Bad timing.) Just expressing my own personal desire, wanting everyone to chill a little.

Thank you all, have a beautiful day. 

Regardless, you are a member of staff. CH or not, people should listen to what you have to say and cut the cancer.

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This thread is turning into a complete joke would someone please just lock it for an hour? Honorable intentions from OP were made, good discussions were had, however it is now nothing but repetitive statements, frustrated staff AND members and a bunch of low key jabbing.

Nothing will change from it until appeals are made and other admins finish reviewing. Can we please move on until then?

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I am just going to post my opinion (and some facts) as it's part of the larger issue.

I have seen and been a part of Law and his friends RP. It's not great. It's trolling, simply put. He has done trolly groups that have made no sense. Myself and others should not be the least surprised that he was banned over this given his history. However, as a friend of Aiko I will say this. She should not have made the report verdict and someone else should have. On another note, they shouldn't have been perma-banned in my opinion. The only time I have seen troll RP result in a perma-ban was when the player playing as a transvestite woman with a penis recorded pornos with three others in the middle of kab with pretty much the whole server as a witness. 

As a result, I am not surprised this over-reach happened, but on the other hand I think sometimes Rolle and the admins should absolutely utilize rule 4 and I don't care if they do so in this sort of manner as long as it's justified. In this instance, it wasn't. Quick rule 4's like that should be done in extremely drastic circumstance such as if there were to be another tendie war or a mass kos spree.

With all that being said. I have put over 4,000 hours into this community over a three-four year time span. I spent my high school years here with my friends, always followed the rules, made groups that changed the server and people's stories. I was burned just like Chief by the staff team and then labeled as a piece of shit banter brigader. Which I find hilarious as only two of them even liked me, the rest hated my guts. I was threatened with a perma-ban despite being an outstanding community member (a few warning points and one caution excluded). I was expecting to be perma-banned over something ridiculous, so this sort of behavior isn't a surprise to me. It's doing nothing to help the community and it has turned away a lot of people from playing.

TLDR Version : Rolle and the admins should be able to exercise their rule 4 abilities in manners like this (total perma-ban, short notice) but in this instance it wasn't justified and was probably worth a five day ban with fifteen warning points. There are a few things wrong with how the report was handled but since this isn't my community, my opinion (or the facts rather) do not matter I guess. 

Edited by Zero

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Yes. A mistake was made, it's not up to me or anyone else to decide what happens from here.

Honestly, everyone who complains about staff being strict in a dying community should really rethink their actions. Filling the community with hatred and confliction through comments on this thread and many other like it in the past and, as im sure, in the future is just as bad in every way.

This is not a nice community to be part of, yes, but pointing it out all the time and throwing the blame on whoever it may be at the time is not helping whatsoever.

As @Hebee said, just forget about it, this thread is not going in the right direction and everyone knows it so don't encourage it...

Edited by Harvey

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First I would like to thank @Rolle @JimRP @Oliv for keeping up with this thread and responding in due course.

 

Been on the outside for a couple weeks now looking in, and honestly the way the situation at hand was handled could have been better (IE having Rolle himself posting the R4, or letting @Aiko finish the report before such a heavy punishment was handed out so that, at the least, the community could see this rumored evidence and come to their own conclusions rather than immediately assuming bias), but at the same time the ban is what it is, and they were invited to, even in the ban, appeal via email which I would hope they do if they feel the ban was unjustified.

 

Now @Rolle and a few others have mentioned people abusing loopholes, constantly getting points spread out over a long duration, and what have you as being one of the problems, and frankly I am inclined to agree, and honestly am wondering if a points system overhaul is due to target those that intentionally become long term issues of the community, then simply take a break for such a time that their points fall off, before once again racking up a substantial amount of points from both ingame actions as well as forum warning points for various posts that do not adhere to the terms of service. I know this is likely to be an unpopular opinion, especially in my own group of friends, but I fail to see how, looking at the wall of shame, some people have managed to have such an extensive points history when, over 3 years of hostile RP, I have only garnered 20 (Keeping in mind that I believe this only is counting points history since the start of the newest website iteration as I believe prior points were lost in the migration). Now I do not necessarily blame any of the people on the Wall of Shame for this, but rather the system for allowing it.

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13 minutes ago, Erik said:

First I would like to thank @Rolle @JimRP @Oliv for keeping up with this thread and responding in due course.

 

Been on the outside for a couple weeks now looking in, and honestly the way the situation at hand was handled could have been better (IE having Rolle himself posting the R4, or letting @Aiko finish the report before such a heavy punishment was handed out so that, at the least, the community could see this rumored evidence and come to their own conclusions rather than immediately assuming bias), but at the same time the ban is what it is, and they were invited to, even in the ban, appeal via email which I would hope they do if they feel the ban was unjustified.

 

Now @Rolle and a few others have mentioned people abusing loopholes, constantly getting points spread out over a long duration, and what have you as being one of the problems, and frankly I am inclined to agree, and honestly am wondering if a points system overhaul is due to target those that intentionally become long term issues of the community, then simply take a break for such a time that their points fall off, before once again racking up a substantial amount of points from both ingame actions as well as forum warning points for various posts that do not adhere to the terms of service. I know this is likely to be an unpopular opinion, especially in my own group of friends, but I fail to see how, looking at the wall of shame, some people have managed to have such an extensive points history when, over 3 years of hostile RP, I have only garnered 20 (Keeping in mind that I believe this only is counting points history since the start of the newest website iteration as I believe prior points were lost in the migration). Now I do not necessarily blame any of the people on the Wall of Shame for this, but rather the system for allowing it.

I think this has been the best thing to come out of this thread. It's not a bad idea.

I appreciate you appreciating us.

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I don’t think it was trolling RP anymore from the parts of the video I watched, I’m gonna watch it all the way through later

 

griefing may have taken some sort of shape and form in this matter, I don’t understand why ICly it should make sense to drive a bus in the water

 

but that being said, a bus is gear as someone said earlier, I think @Keira mentioned that, and sabotage to your  groups / characters should be allowed ICly if it makes sense and it isn’t grieving 

 

however driving into the water, potentially getting your self killed or other characters I think could be a display of NVFL, and attempted KOS 

Edited by GaryCash

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Writing on mobile so forgive me for format. Instead of continually circle jerking about the issue I wanna make some suggestions for fixing it.

1. The Bans should either be lifted and the report should continue by normal standards OR Appeals should be handled in a transparent and open setting just like any other ban appeal. Of course this is outside the norm but if staff has the proof to keep them banned then what do we have to lose. There are serious trust issues between staff and a sizable chunk of the community, for most of us I think the idea of the ban appeals being handled in a timely and fair manner behind closed doors is laughable.

2. An official staff Code of Conduct should be created and signed just like the staff ToS.

3. A community meeting should be held between staff and several community nominated spokespersons. This way the community has a voice and the community meeting doesn’t turn into a cluster fuck and the community concerns are heard.

those are the 3 best ideas I can think of. Feel free to use some or all of them @Rolle but I think we all know from experience that continueing to circle jerk in this thread won’t lead to anything and these types of issues will flair up again in a few months.

 

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2 minutes ago, Henning said:

 

I mean, or we could hold a meeting and give the person whom is talking priority speaker so that they're able to be heard and every community member that wants to be there to listen in and give an input, can.

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1 minute ago, Mexi said:

I mean, or we could hold a meeting and give the person whom is talking priority speaker so that they're able to be heard and every community member that wants to be there to listen in and give an input, can.

I thought about that but in my experience it turns into 30 people trying to get talking power and people not getting there chance to speak. The conversation might move away from a topic before someone get a chance to speak and taking turns speaking with such a sizable community would take ages.

We all know that that this community is segmented into little clicks and friend groups. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing but giving each group one spokesperson could work pretty well. 

4 nominations get that person speaking rights, everyone gets 1 nomination.

 

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Ok so the video we have from Dawson is apparently only 1/3 of the situation according to @MeenMuginLovin and in the video you can only see people having fun with them trying to RP out pushing the bus into the water among other things.  

I think what would provide further clarity and possibly stop all of us from bitching is to see @Aiko's video. That way the entire situation can be judged and we can all shut the fuck up if she did in fact make the right call.

So why not show the video so we can all shut up and see if the correct decision was made?

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50 minutes ago, ExoticRP said:

I think what would provide further clarity and possibly stop all of us from bitching

I'm not gonna stop bitching because you're never supposed to touch your own reports.

Unless the damage is undone and she's removed from staff (which I can guarantee you would've happened in 2016 and probably 2017 too), I'll keep my bitching going strong.

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9 minutes ago, DustyRP said:

I'm not gonna stop bitching because you're never supposed to touch your own reports.

Unless the damage is undone and she's removed from staff (which I can guarantee you would've happened in 2016 and probably 2017 too), I'll keep my bitching going strong.

Nah you won't, you'll probably get permd

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3 minutes ago, JoffreyRP said:

Nah you won't, you'll probably get permd

Maybe someday. I'm so close to getting off final. I've been on the edge the entire time still.

Idk fam, just sick of everything in the community going down hill.

Edited by DustyRP

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1 hour ago, DustyRP said:

I'm so close to getting off final

latest?cb=20150919083216

I just had to :D 

 

The meeting thing, if you want to elect a council of some kind and organize meetings, that's probably an idea for a different thread. I like it a lot!

And yes, @Erik we're working on a solution to end the gathering points, then waiting for them to expire. The idea right now is to set a hard limit on acquired points, after which they never expire. But that's also a discussion for different topic.

 

Now (slightly) back on topic, the admins have discussed the situation already, we've all watched the videos provided to us (3 in total, about 30 minutes of footage), we've made a verbal agreement on what to do when (if) appeals arrive in our mailbox.

And back on topic properly - the "deal with it" attitude is not as bad as I think you try to make it look like. The admin team trialing a new change to the rules once every year despite general consensus being towards no, or banning some troll or rule breaker outside of standard procedure once every month or two is in my opinion definitely not killing the community or such an extensive abuse of admin power to warrant rethinking the rule 4.

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38 minutes ago, Rolle said:

And back on topic properly - the "deal with it" attitude is not as bad as I think you try to make it look like. The admin team trialing a new change to the rules once every year despite general consensus being towards no, or banning some troll or rule breaker outside of standard procedure once every month or two is in my opinion definitely not killing the community or such an extensive abuse of admin power to warrant rethinking the rule 4.

If I may throw in my two cents here. I believe that you are correct that it isn't so bad as the entire thread is making it out to be, but I do believe that proper protocol should always be put first.

What was upsetting in this regard was the (pardon my French here) half assing of protocol. If an Admin feels like they are in the right and justified enough to R4 someone without going through the proper channels that has been put in place then go ahead. Admins caring their titles because they have proven to know what is best for the community.

I would suggest if this is something you strongly support to create and issue a "Special Admin Report Template." Where Admins can issue an R4 without going through the process half way and deciding nope they are above this and commit their verdict.

We are civil people and have rules and structure in place for reasons.

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Stealing Bus = Perm Ban

From the video, it looks like good funny RP to me I mean jeez.

Kinda ridiculous if you ask me we gotta grow up and stop reporting stupid little things and killing the community....

That's all I gotta say.

 

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Play within the rules and you'll be fine. It's not a hard concept to follow.

If you keep trying to alter the game to your own personal liking then you may find yourself running into the wall. This is how it has always been. 
There must be a reason why the admin team needed to introduce a more heavy handed approach.

In the end, community members have to remember that their actions may result into a change.

I'm sure if everyone followed and played by the rules, this approach wouldn't be needed.

Edited by Red

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When was this rule 4 added? Read most of this thread and its definitely positive. I feel sorry for Aiko, could someone link this report (im nosey).

Telling everyone to sit back and follow the rules is all well nd good but the players of the server should be the ones making the changes right? A community council sounds like a great idea I'm sure this community is clued in enough to handle a democracy.

Admins administrate, players play. Obviously admins can play too but from my time in staff it was very restricted past junior gamemaster, I got enough shit for being a Gamemaster and being the leader of a clan. The staff team should be veteran players that are sick of the game, that sounds bad but its kinda the way it should be.

Also now that I know about this rule 4 (who knows how I missed it), I'm kinda scared.

Edited by Jerry

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-User was warned for this post-

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One could think of this site as a country, the ammounts of respect, fairness and rights people claim from it!
 

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49 minutes ago, Chow said:

One could think of this site as a country, the ammounts of respect, fairness and rights people claim from it!
 

Once could also think of this site as a private business owned and operated by @Rolle and @JimRP where they are free to make the business decisions they want, at their own will without having to appease the community.

I'm not saying that I think its right, I'm just saying that's the way it is.

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29 minutes ago, Henning said:

Once could also think of this site as a private business owned and operated by @Rolle and @JimRP where they are free to make the business decisions they want, at their own will without having to appease the community.

I'm not saying that I think its right, I'm just saying that's the way it is.

That is how it is. This has ceased to be a community since the tax debacle, and has been considered a private business since then.

However, just because it's a business, doesn't mean it's alright for unfair and bias actions by the admins. People (like me!) will still bitch, whether this be a community or a business.

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1 minute ago, DustyRP said:

That is how it is. This has ceased to be a community since the tax debacle, and has been considered a private business since then.

However, just because it's a business, doesn't mean it's alright for unfair and bias actions by the admins. People (like me!) will still bitch, whether this be a community or a business.

I'm in the same boat as you @DustyRP I don't like the recent misconduct by staff either. However, People shouldn't get the wrong idea of what DayZRP is.

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17 minutes ago, DustyRP said:

However, just because it's a business, doesn't mean it's alright for unfair and bias actions by the admins. People (like me!) will still bitch, whether this be a community or a business.

Agreed here. It started off as a community, but will end as a 'business'.

Regardless of whether it is or is not a business, should that really effect how the administration team makes decisions? I can't see how or why it should.

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