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Cosmo

Ban Appeal: 'RDM'

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Link to the source of punishment (report/post): 

Why the verdict is not fair: 

List of times the hostage fails to value their life/we tell him to be quiet:

2:55: After being knocked out with a bat "Good to know you can't take me without a fucking bat" is warned to stop talking.

3:04 Warned to stop talking shit with a baton and gun pointed at his face. Continues to swear at the men after being smacked in the face.

4:30 Told to stop with the attitude after calling @Its Boris a "broken record" with a pistol pointed at his face.

5:45 Calls Boris a  'fucktard.' Is then beaten across the face with the butt of a rifle so he would shut up.

6:18 Hostage turns to Boris (despite being tied to the pole) saying "a few tips for interrogating somebody." Is shot for the 6 minutes of non-compliance.

10:30 I am informed via radio that we are under attack

11:45 Hostage calls Boris a coward.

12:20 Enemy outside

13:19 Hostage tells enemy outside who we are - immediately putting us at risk of being killed. A few seconds later I ask the man what he said he fails to respond, I move back in position. 

15:25 the hostage laughs at us, telling us he can't wait to watch us die.

16:25 hostage is again told to stop being cocky, and noncompliant. Hostage then says he can't understand Boris as a clear jab at him, so Boris is forced to tell him again but continues to do so.

17:08 I tell him I heard him tell the people outside we are the communists, he confirms it, laughs so I execute him.

Because of this verdict, I am now uncertain how many times I can allow a hostage to be noncompliant before I am allowed to execute them. I was not going to allow this man who had been a massive pain in the arse to potentially get us killed. He clearly broke rule 8.4.3 several times in his own recording.

  • 8.4.3 Hostages do not value their life, for example, they continuously talk back or insult you despite being told to stop.

 

With that out of the way, I will address the clear miss understanding in @Stagsview's verdict - That being the reason for execution. Stags states that once the hostage had been shot in the foot he was no longer a threat, however, this is not the case. Yes, the hostage is relatively quiet until an enemy force directly attacks us. 13:15 the hostage shouts to the people who are hunting us that we are in fact the communist they are looking for (This is after the hostage was shot). This is a clear and definite reason for executing the hostage after everything else that happened - I would not risk the man shouting out again letting the people who want to kill us know who and where we are. This part was skipped over in the verdict for reasons I do not know.

That is just one of the reasons for a valid execution AFTER the hostage 'calmed down.' At 15:30 you can hear the hostage say "I cannot wait for you to die" again running his mouth AFTER being shot. When I confront him at around 17:15, I tell him I heard him tell the people outside (who were hunting the communists) that we are them, he then replies with "Yep" and laughs at me - showing he clearly learnt nothing from the beating we gave him and the bullet to the foot thus I killed him for lack of respect, and clearly attempting to put us in future danger.

in the verdict Stags says " that point on, [reverting to the hostage being shot] he was being compliant " Which is completely false, you can clearly see otherwise in the video evidence. We have to tell him again to stop with the attitude after 5 different occasions he talks back/insults us. This means that no, the hostage was not valuing their life after being shot, yes he RPed the pain but he in no way changed his attitude. the verdict states that we had 'full control' of the hostage however that simply isn't true we could not stop him from running his mouth no matter how many times we beat him/shot him. We could not stop him telling our enemies outside who we were. this is a clear threat.  But you killed him purely because he said that a window was open   Is the reason given as to why I was punished with RDM. I did not, in fact, kill the hostage for telling me a window is open, this is why I believe the verdict seems to be miss informed for some reason. The reason was clear that he told those outside who we were during a firefight outside, this execution was valid and very much needed to secure safety for our own lives.

I would just like to add Rolle's response to a very similar verdict: 

8.4 Hostages may only be killed in the following scenarios:
                    - 8.4.3 Hostages do not value their life, for example, they continuously talk back or insult you despite being told to stop.

The hostage did talk back multiple times and continued to do so despite multiple warnings because he is an "old ex-military Russian" aka super soldier. FYI rule 6.2.2 applies to everyone without exceptions, regardless of your characters background. It also does not matter how long time has passed since the warnings have been issued, as long as it's still the same hostage situation the warnings given are be considered valid for its entire duration. We can't require players to have to remind someone every 5 minutes that they should stop talking shit in a situation where that persons life is at risk. The suggestion from the GM team that the hostage should have been tortured instead of killed, after he showed no fear or pain earlier on is ridiculous. The guy doesn't want to RP out pain, he keeps talking shit despite multiple warnings, what are they supposed to do? The hostage refused to properly RP during the situation, kept talking back after multiple warnings, the kill is fully and completely justified.

Additional statements/comments explaining your point of view: My POV from the report:

Alexander Petrov POV: I log in and I’m informed we have two civilians at the airfield near or in the fire station so I head there straight away. When I arrive I notice one of them is Retro, the other seemed to be a friend of the commonwealth by the rest of the group. While holding up and beating Retros character for being CDF and trying to find out where they are located. A man is spotted and he comes in the firestation, he admits [Edit: He is recognised from a radio broadcast where he admits to being NATO/US Forces]  he is NATO/CDF I can’t quite remember but for being associated with such group and trespassing on the airfield we hold him up (taking any radio) Immediately he begins to trash talk us, swearing at us etc which I don’t mind it makes it fun to have a hostage with some bite but after telling him several times to stop the trash talking it seems to persist. Eventually, he is so noncompliant he ends up in a fist fight with G19 who being the sneaky commie he pulls a bat out. When the man wakes up he takes some time to recover before again trashing us, we again tell him not to several times. Then suddenly I’m informed of hostiles outside. I and Its Boris hold down the building while our allies fight outside. One of the hostiles outside asks “Are you the communist?” which we reply “No we’re just civilians” or along those lines to which the man who had been trashing us shouts “THEY’RE THE COMMUNIST” and for me ICly that was the last straw but being in a firefight without knowing where we could be breached from I don’t go up to do it. I go up a few times to check on the hostages and run back. After telling them we are communist he persists with the trash talking until I had had enough, so I ask him “how many times did we tell you to shut up?” before shooting him in the back off the head.

What would you like to achieve with this appeal: Complete revoke of points and ban.

What could you have done better?: Executed the hostage as soon as I heard him tell them as it seemed to complicate the report.

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Hello @Cosmo,

A new team has staff has looked over the report and have come to the following conclusion:

It is clear in the video the demands made to the OP in the report were, "mr. MAAAN on the fucking ground, your'e going to stay quiet. Or I mean you can talk, you can small talk, small talk you know? But you cant shit talk." The OP in the report continues to say, "windows open," to which you execute him. In our eyes, saying a window is open does not count as shit talk, making your reasoning invalid for the execution. In your own timeline of events, none of it mentions a threat for the hostage to not say your affiliation or he would die. Your only demands were for him to stop shit talking, to which he complied. You also say here the reason for your execution:

10 hours ago, Cosmo said:

The reason was clear that he told those outside who we were during a firefight outside, this execution was valid and very much needed to secure safety for our own lives.

Your hostage was not a threat to your lives, it was the people outside with the guns. You killing the hostage made no difference to your safety. Ovearall, we have found your reasoning for the execution completely invalid, and for that reason the points and ban will remain. 

To your concerns about how many times you can let a hostage be non compliant before he can be executed, that is completely up to your discretion. We recommend that you choose roleplaying with your hostage instead of killing them, executing them should always be your last and final option. 

Outcome:

Appeal Denied - Ban + Points will remain 

Verdict by @Brady and @Aiko

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