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Server time: 2018-08-15, 11:28 WE ARE RECRUITING

Roland

Group goals overhaul

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Posted (edited)

A very reasonable change, and will hopefully encourage people put more thought into their groups, making them consider not only there lore, but how to progress their group over time.

 

I am curious though how this rule effects progress in reality. With dates given on goals will groups be punished for failing to meet them, or will they just be able to revise the dates therefore avoiding having to progress towards them in a timely manner by simply moving the finish line.

Edited by Erik

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Sounds awesome to me! However, I find the groups almost play too little a role on the server; they fill loads and loads here on the forums, but in the server not so much. So I suggest the implementation of some sort of group system where most people join, or work for one group or another... I'm a big fan of ingame politics and the most awesome encounters are always the ones that are based on some quarrel between the bigger groups.

Just a thought at least xD

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Question to @Rolle:

Lets say I go with the following:

We will aim to set up "The Auction," a slave auctioning outpost whereby we will be conducting our business. This will be set up by Day 150.

Ignoring any other of the SMART objectives i didn't fulfill, what, if any, would be the repercussions of failing to complete the objectives by a date? 

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1 hour ago, Erik said:

I am curious though how this rule effects progress in reality. With dates given on goals will groups be punished for failing to meet them, or will they just be able to revise the dates therefore avoiding having to progress towards them in a timely manner by simply moving the finish line.

Depends on how much time we have to enforce and check these goals and if dynamic groups stay or go. In the beginning I believe we should be lenient, failing to accomplish a goal or two or push it back a few weeks is not a big deal, however continued failure to meet goals or constantly pushing them forward without any completions will result in the group being disbanded as you have failed to accomplish what the group was created and approved for.

 

10 minutes ago, Para said:

Question to @Rolle:

Lets say I go with the following:

We will aim to set up "The Auction," a slave auctioning outpost whereby we will be conducting our business. This will be set up by Day 150.

Ignoring any other of the SMART objectives i didn't fulfill, what, if any, would be the repercussions of failing to complete the objectives by a date? 

I think you fulfilled them all. Setting up an auction outpost is specific (we know what it is and what it will be for), measurable (we can check if it's there or not), attainable (creating an outpost seems pretty straight forward), relevant (if your group deals with slaves) and time bound (day 150 deadline). For failing to meet goals, see above.

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I'm guessing we're also going with a quality over quantity vibe? @Rolle,

These new goals will be of a much better quality, and thus will rule out a lot of the old goals on group pages. Is a smaller number of goals acceptable? I don't think my group will physically be able to have the same number of goals to this degree. 

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Just now, Para said:

I'm guessing we're also going with a quality over quantity vibe? @Rolle,

These new goals will be of a much better quality, and thus will rule out a lot of the old goals on group pages. Is a smaller number of goals acceptable? I don't think my group will physically be able to have the same number of goals to this degree. 

Of course, I think 3 goals is around max that a medium size group would want to have. Ideally two so that you have some variation in work being done without and in case you are stuck with one goal you can always work on another. So 1-3 goals I think.

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i feel like im in english class

good change tho

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Good stuff, LMs will have their hands full with enforcing & guiding groups with the new goals.

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Quite like the changes since Rolle added a tiny bit more clarification earlier on.

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The only thing I dislike is Time-bound... feels like work... someone poking me with a stick "cmon... get to it.. cmon... cmon... are you there yet" :D

But hey maybe it sounds just bad... will see.

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Posted (edited)

+10^7 from me. Would be nice to see some more interesting and achievable goals from groups beside the infamous "Get well know throughout Chernarus".

 

21 minutes ago, Shanoby said:

The only thing I dislike is Time-bound... feels like work... someone poking me with a stick

I have to agree with this, although the Time-bound times are most likely going to be up the the groups themselves.

 

With that being said, great update. Interested to see what groups will be doing with this information.

Edited by Yung Shade
Just noticed it said "day 180" and not "days: 180" *yikes*

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Much love! Think it helps with both coming up with great Goals and taking them into Action ICly to think of the SMART concept when writing them!

Regarding the Time-Bound Thing: maybe it would be easier to define Goals somewhat along the lines of "urgent"->"short-term"->"Long-term"->"continous/ongoing" instead of setting a fix deadline? Maybe more realistic/achievable than having to define precise dates for "high-Level strategy goals/missions"?

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I like this change, although I could see some groups struggling to come up with enough goals that comply with SMART. 

Also, like sheepy said, there are some goals that could be continuous or ongoing. Are these types of goals no longer allowed now? 

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And idea might be to have a tab, just like the Nexum Co. have a tab for "Home" and "Activity" but for the goals. Where they can set their group goals and set their estimated completion day.

 

Example:

605bf253d32e7f850cab47d10b66edeb.jpg.b0ead2968d46921a547da12834228fb2.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Yung Shade said:

And idea might be to have a tab, just like the Nexum Co. have a tab for "Home" and "Activity" but for the goals. Where they can set their group goals and set their estimated completion day.

 

Example:

605bf253d32e7f850cab47d10b66edeb.jpg.b0ead2968d46921a547da12834228fb2.jpg

Very naice.

Also yes, that is a good idea, maybe set up like a date coding where you can set a date and if it isn't completed by said time, it would notify LM's or Admins?

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This some gud stuff tbh. 

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What happens if these people are from work or school but then they have to stress about an in game thing that they're there to enjoy...

Especially if some of those goals you don't really have a clue when they will even be fully achieved since it's about the infection or confiscation of UN berets...

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39 minutes ago, Faith said:

What happens if these people are from work or school but then they have to stress about an in game thing that they're there to enjoy...

2

If you're not going to work towards your goal what's the point in being in a group? You could just go in game dynamically. Personally, I do not find it that stressful when I set a goal for myself and work for it even if I got to do work for my degree and also look for a job.

39 minutes ago, Faith said:

Especially if some of those goals you don't really have a clue when they will even be fully achieved since it's about the infection or confiscation of UN berets...

 

Is confiscating UN berets and helmets a realistic goal? I mean it could be a thing that you guys do, but is it really attainable? 
I am assuming you mean all UN berets & helmets which are not part of this "authority". That is a lot of helmets, sounds pretty unattainable if you ask me.

I would personally be willing to go down the route in which the primary main goals of the group have to follow this pattern and then you have lesser secondary objectives which don't have to meet the requirement Rolle set.

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Just now, Hebi Kotei said:

If you're not going to work towards your goal what's the point in being in a group? You could just go in game dynamically.

Is confiscating UN berets and helmets a realistic goal? I mean it could be a thing that you guys do, but is it really attainable? 
I am assuming you mean all UN berets & helmets which are not part of this "authority". That is a lot of helmets, sounds pretty unattainable if you ask me.

Realistic to our point of view because our characters are doing their jobs still, yes. Realistic because of game mechanics, no. We cannot help that.

There is a point as @Rolle PM'd me once between being so realistic and realism where you can have fun. I believe this will put others off in a sense of running a group. I don't want to be getting on in my day after work or chores and going, "Alright, time to do this otherwise my group gets archived on a game I'm here to enjoy in my own free will..." I mean... It sounds a bit dodgy. Even I like realism, but I feel like this is a kill joy. But that's my opinion, others may differ.

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The changes look great @Rolle! Plus 1. 

 

My only added request, is under the members page, include as well as the "Joined date"  Could you also add "Last played" that is shown when you click their profile? That will help immensely for both group leaders, and staff to know how active members are with a simple glance.

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10 minutes ago, Faith said:

Realistic to our point of view because our characters are doing their jobs still, yes. Realistic because of game mechanics, no. We cannot help that.

I mean there'll always be helmets that you guys have not got control over, regardless of game mechanics. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I did add this as well:

Quote

I would personally be willing to go down the route in which the primary main goals of the group have to follow this pattern and then you have lesser secondary objectives which don't have to meet the requirement Rolle set.

 

10 minutes ago, Faith said:

There is a point as @Rolle PM'd me once between being so realistic and realism where you can have fun. I believe this will put others off in a sense of running a group. I don't want to be getting on in my day after work or chores and going, "Alright, time to do this otherwise my group gets archived on a game I'm here to enjoy in my own free will..." I mean... It sounds a bit dodgy. Even I like realism, but I feel like this is a kill joy. But that's my opinion, others may differ.

1

You still set the time frame and if you can't meet it on time then if you can't meet it then, you are able to change it. I honestly don't see the problem, you set the deadline, you can move the deadline if needed. You can still go in game, play the way you like. Instead, the difference is that the staff team is asking you to work towards your goals, the ones that you set for yourself.

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1 minute ago, Hebi Kotei said:

I mean there'll always be helmets that you guys have not got control over, regardless of game mechanics. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I did add this as well:


You still set the time frame and if you can't meet it on time then if you can't meet it then, you are able to change it. I honestly don't see the problem, you set the deadline, you can move the deadline if needed

I dunno, timelines are just... if you can set a deadline and move it, then what really is there a point to it? Compared to me and you for example, you say you can deal with this whilst looking for a job etc. Whilst me on the other hand is a complete stress head who can't deal with even the smallest things. Everybody is different which in comparison shows how other people will take this. Not saying it's bad but, that's how I guess I was trying to put things, if you can understand.

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16 minutes ago, Faith said:

I dunno, timelines are just... if you can set a deadline and move it, then what really is there a point to it? Compared to me and you for example, you say you can deal with this whilst looking for a job etc. Whilst me on the other hand is a complete stress head who can't deal with even the smallest things. Everybody is different which in comparison shows how other people will take this. Not saying it's bad but, that's how I guess I was trying to put things, if you can understand.

While I do understand it, when does any ruleset keep into account that people are different?

At the end of the day, all is being asked is to follow your group goals and actually attempt to reach it. I do think disbandment is too harsh on the matter though.

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