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What I have noticed about Kill Rights and Hoarding

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Ok I think I get what the guy is saying...but like maybe someone could throw some other ideas out? Instead of just kinda bashing his. Things are getting pretty fucking heated here

.It's like a salt mine...

Edited by Coda852

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3 minutes ago, Coda852 said:

Ok I think I get what the guy is saying...but like maybe someone could throw some other ideas out? Instead of just kinda bashing his. Things are getting pretty fucking heated here

.It's like a salt mine...

I like that. That's funny. I mean this all in good fun. But I agree; I won't disregard someones concern with what I proposed so long as their disagreement is followed up with some sort of alternate solution or valuable criticism.

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Someone brings up a point that others don't agree with. Must be a whitename. I shoukd call them that angrily, or just to make a point. That will show them. 

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I don't like your initiation idea, I think its simple, if you want someone to calm down, calm them down. Pointing guns at people doesn't calm people down.

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9 minutes ago, Commissar said:

I don't like your initiation idea, I think its simple, if you want someone to calm down, calm them down. Pointing guns at people doesn't calm people down.

Thanks for the comment. However, I'm not really trying to focus on getting someone to calm down. I am focusing on the Rule Play that could be caused by the current vague initiation and kill rights rules.

Trust me, I agree, If my character were to try to calm someone down, he would probably just pull out his weapon to show he doesn't want to things to get violent, but they will if need be. He wouldn't aim the weapon until he began to fear for the safety of himself or the people around him (being at his camp for example) and would ask the person to leave the camp. However, doing so with a raised weapon would now grant the person acting crazy kill rights and he could kill me and probably my camp members. If he does this without saying a word, it seems to me that he has just Rule Played and dodged any further RP that could have taken place.

Thank you again for sharing your thoughts!

EDIT: I feel like, at the moment, it is impossible to aim a weapon (showing that you are not playing around) and ask someone to get out of your house or out of your camp without them being allowed to fire onto you without first RPing. I simply think that in a situation like this, it should be encourage that you continue to RP and not just open fire. Now if someone were to directly threaten a life, that would be a different story.

Edited by TheWireLord

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1 hour ago, Rolle said:

Wow. Who the fuck are you anyway?

- USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST -

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24 minutes ago, N-Tox said:

- USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST -

Got him good N-Tox. Good work.

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I mean, if I had just been through some like TERRIBLE shit in RP, like I just got tortured and someone blew my best friends head off next to me, that edgy shit. Than some small group of like 3 or 4 run up on me and I keep saying something like "Hey, look just..just get away from me!". I look fucked up, ruined clothes, maybe poorly bandaged wounds, limping, ect. Let's say they keep approaching because they wanna help this fucked up looking guy and I draw a gun and aim it and keep backing up, whilst yelling.

 

"Please! Just get away from me! Get away! I don't wanna hurt anyone! JUST LEAVE ME ALONE!".

 

Than one of them drew a gun and killed me, i'd be pretty upset with that one. That could have been some good RP ended because I raised a gun. I feel that is a bit of a better example of what you're trying to say here.

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1 minute ago, TheWireLord said:

Thanks for the comment. However, I'm not really trying to focus on getting someone to calm down. I am focusing on the Rule Play that could be caused by the current vague initiation and kill rights rules.

Trust me, I agree, If my character were to try to calm someone down, he would probably just pull out his weapon to show he doesn't want to things to get violent, but they will if need be. He wouldn't aim the weapon until he began to fear for the safety of himself or the people around him (being at his camp for example) and would ask the person to leave the camp. However, doing so with a raised weapon would now grant the person acting crazy kill rights and he could kill me and probably my camp members. If he does this without saying a word, it seems to me that he has just Rule Played and dodged any further RP that could have taken place.

Thank you again for sharing your thoughts!

If they're a good roleplayer, and you tried to calm them down no matter what way you did it, you wouldn't need to worry. They'd recognise what you were doing, and go with it. If they decided to kill you, that would just be shitty move on their part. I wouldn't bother to much about that, either they're inexperienced RP'ers or seen an opportunity to kill and took it. I'd personally just avoid RPing with them if I could or speak to them about it, help them grow as a RP'er. Explaining what you were doing, and if they're wise enough and learn, they would indentify that action again in an future RP moment, and go "Ah he's not really intiating, hes just advancing the RP but going down a different route".

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1 minute ago, Coda852 said:

I mean, if I had just been through some like TERRIBLE shit in RP, like I just got tortured and someone blew my best friends head off next to me, that edgy shit. Than some small group of like 3 or 4 run up on me and I keep saying something like "Hey, look just..just get away from me!". I look fucked up, ruined clothes, maybe poorly bandaged wounds, limping, ect. Let's say they keep approaching because they wanna help this fucked up looking guy and I draw a gun and aim it and keep backing up, whilst yelling.

 

"Please! Just get away from me! Get away! I don't wanna hurt anyone! JUST LEAVE ME ALONE!".

 

Than one of them drew a gun and killed me, i'd be pretty upset with that one. That could have been some good RP ended because I raised a gun. I feel that is a bit of a better example of what you're trying to say here.

Yes that is a good example thank you (sorry, was actually at college and had to make responses snappy)

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3 minutes ago, Commissar said:

If they decided to kill you, that would just be shitty move on their part. I wouldn't bother to much about that, either they're inexperienced RP'ers or seen an opportunity to kill and took it. I'd personally just avoid RPing with them if I could or speak to them about it, help them grow as a RP'er.

I agree with this and believe we are trying to accomplish the same goal. I would love to help others grow as an RP'ers and honestly think that my suggestion would help clarify what type of RP someone was trying to do. In-game. Before anyone makes any mistakes.

2 minutes ago, Commissar said:

"Ah he's not really intiating, hes just advancing the RP but going down a different route".

This is exactly what I would like the person to think while in game. Not afterwards when they realized they messed up and could have had a good RP experience. Ultimately, what I'm trying to do is help solve this problem before it even happens by encouraging that you directly threaten a life before kill rights are granted. If the RP'er read these rules at all, they would hopefully see that if no treat was directly made to their life (via a verbal threat) then then the person would just be looking for intense RP and not actually looking to kill anyone.

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I've been robbed for stupid crap before, like loot and gear and it always seems to be piss poor RP. I enjoy well RP'd hostile encounters If they make RP sense. Too often I see people getting hostile over BS for no reason just to start something just to get into a firefight. While we all need a good hostile presence and what not, I still think it should all make sense IC. A tense RP situation is always 100x better IMO than a one off shoot out, or that ends in guns blazing right off the bat. Maybe it's a power play and people feel powerful and in charge when they can get someone to bend their knee and F2 and taking their gear is that added bonus, because I feel like it happens a whole lot more without RP sense than it honestly should be happening and others don't want to feel that way, so they immediately throw back shooting wildly and everyone gets salty in the end. The reasons, sometimes, that I see people initiate with are really ... shitty excuses and you can tell it's all because someone wanted to yeet someone else in the end. Too often I feel like the starting conversation for some players is, "What do you wanna do?" "Oh I dunno, let's go start some shit!" 

I used to be this way when I played PvP MMO games, I'd be geared up. I'd be bored stiff, I wasn't there for RP (because there was no RP) and I didn't wanna do any of the objectives or whatever else the game had laid out. So, what did I do? I'd go find someone and kill them, for whatever reason. (Bearing this is with no RP rules, so I didn't need a reason to run up and gas a fool). Then maybe kill them again and again, if I saw them respawn just for the kek and just because I could. Often times that would prompt them to bring their friends, and I'd bring my friends and we'd have a huge all out battle happening and it would be pumping and the adrenaline would be flowing and DAMN I'd feel so BOSS when I'd slaughter the people we were fighting.

But, this isn't the same as DayZRP. DayZRP is set aside from other communities for RP. I want to see and experience interwoven story lines, character arcs, character development and change. I wanna see the IC world grow and merge, evolved and shift. I wanna see groups rise and fall, people gain infamy and reputation. I wanna see their presence marked in the minds of those who were there to experience them and not in a way that would have someone saying, "Oh those guys? Yeah, all they did was run around and start shit for no reason." 

But, sadly there will always be two sides to how people want to RP. Also, people make mistakes. You can't read someone elses mind, you raise a gun at them they're gonna raise theirs back at you because if anything this game has taught us is that a raised gun means you're going to get shot no matter what kind of RP you were hoping to get. It's to a point where I have had friends say to other friends, while in a dynamic with each other and being hostile toward one another, "Don't shoot me/kill me if I raise my weapon at you, okay? I wanna RP it out." And that makes me sad that we have to set that precedent OOC in order to experience quality RP.

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16 minutes ago, Coda852 said:

I mean, if I had just been through some like TERRIBLE shit in RP, like I just got tortured and someone blew my best friends head off next to me, that edgy shit. Than some small group of like 3 or 4 run up on me and I keep saying something like "Hey, look just..just get away from me!". I look fucked up, ruined clothes, maybe poorly bandaged wounds, limping, ect. Let's say they keep approaching because they wanna help this fucked up looking guy and I draw a gun and aim it and keep backing up, whilst yelling.

 

"Please! Just get away from me! Get away! I don't wanna hurt anyone! JUST LEAVE ME ALONE!".

 

Than one of them drew a gun and killed me, i'd be pretty upset with that one. That could have been some good RP ended because I raised a gun. I feel that is a bit of a better example of what you're trying to say here.

real good example, i honestly think there should be more rules about this. it would have to be worked out properly because in some situations it could possibly be abused. awesome example tho

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1 minute ago, TheWireLord said:

This is exactly what I would like the person to think while in game. Not afterwards when they realized they messed up and could have had a good RP experience. Ultimately, what I'm trying to do is help solve this problem before it even happens by encouraging that you directly threaten a life before kill rights are granted. If the RP'er read these rules at all, they would hopefully see that if no treat was directly made to their life (via a verbal threat) then then the person would just be looking for intense RP and not actually looking to kill anyone.

Unfortunately, reading rules and following them and understanding them while in game is very different. Fortunately for myself, when I first joined the community, I could indentify moments like this, giving my experience of Acting and Improvised Comedy/Drama work. But allot of people don't have that, putting that a side, understanding rules and putting them into action IG can some times be confusing, fortunately for me again when I first joined the community I made a friend very quickly, whom I cannot mention as he is now banned, but he guided me through situations and explained how rules worked for those situations, allot of newcomers don't get those oppertunities, and some do. Thats why the Mentor System was introduced.

Want to solve the problem, we all need to start taking newcomers under our wings.

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4 minutes ago, Commissar said:

Want to solve the problem, we all need to start taking newcomers under our wings.

I agree. I think the Mentor Program is an amazing thing! However, I've seen issues like this arise from newcomers and old timers alike. I try to take newcomers into my group and teach them the more peaceful way to RP (not saying we don't get into intense situations too) I understand what you're saying and the only question I have would be: Would my suggestion cause any harm to the state of RP? From what I can tell, it would just require someone who is more so focused on PVP (which like I said before, I don't believe DayZRP is the best place to focus on PVP) to not jump to killing someone so quickly. Wait it out, RP a little and see where it takes you.

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20 hours ago, Tom said:

The issue with roleplay communities is that everyone thinks they're the main actor of their own movie and everyone else is a bystander. Everyone has their own little storyline that they try to stick to and the issues arise when it includes other people and when those people don't want to play along. People need to understand that they're not special and that the world doesn't revolve around their characters, that's just plain selfish.

I also agree with @Tom when he said this. It seems that people OOC think that their character shouldn't die. Truth is, your character will die eventually. So would you not want a death to be for a good RP reason? Or would you rather it be because you fired onto someone who you later realize was just trying to have an intense RP situation with you? This is the problem that I've seen, both new people and veterans have. I don't mind (in an OOC sense) If my character dies, but I want it to be for a good RP reason.

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Most of the time, if somebody raises their weapon and points it in my, or my friends', direction, I won't shoot them unless they show aggression that can't be pacified by any other means. If they want me to back off, I'll back off, if they want me or my friend to offer medical assistance, I'll try and make that happen instead of blowing them away. However, looking at some of the responses in this thread, as well as prior experience in game and on the forums, it seems there are people who play on a technicality based mindset, rather than a role-play based mindset. It is, unfortunately, a rather prevalent mindset in my experience as DayZ is a relatively boring game and the rules shackle some of the only entertainment that the mechanics provide, to a degree, which is basically shooting other players and gathering gear. Both are fun in their own respects, but they should not be the priority or prevalent on a RP server.

I agree with Voodoo's line of reasoning for the most part, the ambiguity of current initiations could be resolved by giving a 'template' for an initiation e.g. in order to be classed as an initiation there must be a verbal demand+threat to the life of the subject, as opposed to the looser type of initiation of 'back off' + a weapon raised. Technicalities aren't fun for anybody as you are constantly second guessing yourself, wondering whether or not your attempt at RP will be reciprocated or if you'll just catch a bullet because you raised a gun and told somebody to leave you alone. 

TL;DR, I am loathe to kill anybody unless they attempt to capture me, I wish more people were the same way, though the issue above could be resolved somewhat with clearer rules.

Edited by Iso

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2 minutes ago, Iso said:

I agree with Voodoo's line of reasoning for the most part, the ambiguity of current initiations could be resolved by giving a 'template' for an initiation e.g. in order to be classed as an initiation there must be a verbal demand+threat to the life of the subject.

I agree as well, but also think that maybe it should be required that you not just make a verbal demand, but maybe also make a verbal threat to their life. This would make it clear without a doubt that they ARE WILLING to KILL you if you don't do what they say.

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Just now, TheWireLord said:

I agree as well, but also think that maybe it should be required that you not just make a verbal demand, but maybe also make a verbal threat to their life. This would make it clear without a doubt that they ARE WILLING to KILL you if you don't do what they say.

That's what I was getting at, I think I just worded it badly.

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Just now, Iso said:

That's what I was getting at, I think I just worded it badly.

Oh I gotcha, no worries!

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44 minutes ago, TheWireLord said:

I also agree with @Tom when he said this. It seems that people OOC think that their character shouldn't die. Truth is, your character will die eventually. So would you not want a death to be for a good RP reason? Or would you rather it be because you fired onto someone who you later realize was just trying to have an intense RP situation with you? This is the problem that I've seen, both new people and veterans have. I don't mind (in an OOC sense) If my character dies, but I want it to be for a good RP reason.

I think you misunderstood my point. If you point a gun at someone, regardless of how intense the roleplay is, you need to be ready to face consequences for your actions - one of those consequences is being shot in the face.

As many people already mentioned shoving a gun in someones face in order for them to calm down literally never works, not in real life and not in roleplay, especially if they're armed. If you are willing to defuse a heated situation you can do so without gun pointing, to quote a master roleplayer; "Disarm them with your roleplay." @Odap the Corruptor

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@Tom I understood your point(and it was a good one). I was just saying I agreed with the statement you said about people thinking they are the center of everything, Whether that was directed towards me or not, I do agree with that statement and think it goes both ways. Defending my suggestion and acting against it.

Also thanks for your valuable response.

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So...what im reading is alot of people attempting to open up areas of rp by limiting rp. In the end thats all these suggestions do you know. 

 

People need to realize that things happen in life that you will not like, when we use that truth in game and someones hostile, you have the same options as real life, problem is people start thinking about rules and invent rulebreaks, exaggerate minor rule breaks, and make the situation worse by not roleplay realistically as any type of victim, hell even if you play a tough guy thats ok, just remember that death is final until you respawn. 

 

Everyone need to stop assuming wrongdoing instantly cause your not vibing on another persons character. You all are coming across childish.

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On 10/8/2017 at 2:09 AM, TheWireLord said:

In the time I have been apart of DayzRP, I have seen many people shot, taken hostage, and even killed by a solo survivor or a group. I have usually ignored the kills (in an OOC fashion) because they have usually been apart of a larger roleplay event. However, I have noticed more and more, kills that, while not technically breaking rules, are not very roleplay friendly. These kills have more been like utilizing loopholes in the rules to gain something.

An example (with fake names): Bob is told to calm down after he stated that he wants to kill someone. There are several other people around (it is a public place). Jim raises his weapon to Bob and calmly asks him to relax because he is acting insane. Bob instantly shoots Jim without any further conversation and runs off.

This seems to me that Jim was trying to roleplay a situation where Bob was acting crazy and he wanted to calm him down so others didn't get worried. Why would Bob kill the calm man for no reason? Is it so his buddies can grab whatever loot is on the dead body and take it back to base? Who can say. This could be a touchy situation where Bob might say he was initiated on so him and his buddies had Kill Rights, but when a player, like Jim, is obviously looking to roleplay and not kill anyone, why would Bob decide to kill Jim without further conversation?

 

4

So let me get this straight, our pal Jim over here thought it was a good idea to raise a gun at someone who already is angry at something in efforts to calm him down? Plus I'm assuming our hot-headed friend Bob has a gun as well. So Jim thought it was a good idea to "Roleplay" calming down someone who already is angry and armed by pointing a gun at Bob and telling him to calm down. Jim gets smoked and Bob runs away because he just killed a man. 

I'm not trying to be a dick or nothing, but anyone with common sense would assume, "Hey let us not aim a gun at someone who already is angry and also has a gun." Jim could have avoided that entire situation by simply not raising his gun and attempting to actually RP out calming him down. There are plenty of ways you can calm someone down without aiming a rifle at someone's face. I'm assuming our pal Jim thought he could be the big hero sheriff in town by aiming his gun at Bob and telling him to relax. Oh no, it turns out Bob was really dirty dan in disguise and smoked Jim. Now Jim is angry OOC that Bob ruined his dank hero roleplay, and Bob is the bad guy and terrible roleplayers in this situation.

Now I agree with you about the looting aspect. I feel as though people value you their gear a little too much to the point that they run the opposite direction of roleplay because they feel as though they will get robbed for their dank FAL or SVD. I guess I can see from their point that they are thinking "Oh I spent 3 hours in tisy for this baby, I'm not going to lose it." Well that right there is the issue in my opinion. If you're spending 3 fucking hours gearing, you're doing something wrong. Now that we have pointed out the issue, we must think of a solution. Oh wait, there is none. We can't really do anything about this. Maybe if you're in a situation where someone is valuing gear more than RP, file a badrp report against the person. I understand that people who are new to the community think they can get in game without having to worry about being KOSd so they go crazy for loot, but everyone grows out of the phase at one point or another.

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34 minutes ago, Dew said:

Now Jim is angry OOC that Bob ruined his dank hero roleplay, and Bob is the bad guy and terrible roleplayers in this situation.

The example I used was just some example that I have noticed before. Not referring to myself or anyone in specific. Using the "And he said he wanted to kill someone" (a quote from me) was a bad example on my part. Let's say, instead, Bob didn't say he wanted to kill someone, but was just causing Jim to fear for himself and the innocent people around him's lives due to the actions Bob was making. (maybe talking smack to everyone he saw or making threats. Whatever you want it to be) So Jim decides he wants to not "be a hero" but begin some intense RP. Is he not allowed to that? Attempt to RP a situation?

I understand that someone shouldn't get butthurt if they die. I mean it's DayZ. You're gonna die. But if they die without any RP on an RP server, they probably wouldn't be too happy. Like I said earlier, I don't mind dying (in an OOC sense) but if I am killed without first attempting to RP, then what is the point of playing on an RP server?

And all of this could be a simple misunderstanding. I'm not saying Bob is bad at RP in general. Maybe he honestly thought he was about to die so he opened fire (still without first RPing but anyway) With my suggestion, there would (hopefully) not be any more confusion "...or I'll KILL you" means "Oh man he's ready to kill me" AND "...stay calm and give me your weapon" means "oh he doesn't seem super hostile and may want to RP this situation out" This isn't to say that the person being held up couldn't then attempt to initiate by saying "you'll never stop me!" (or something along those lines) I just think there should have to be some sort of RP before someone can be granted kill rights.

I think people forget this is an RP Server. That means Role Play. This isn't a Realism Server. RP means you have a role and should play the game and interact with people within the constraints of not only your character's role, but the server rules as well.

Thank you for your input.

Edited by TheWireLord
Grammar & Colors

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