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Permadeath/Storylines Discussion

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I just wanted to talk about the general importance of perma-deathing/allowing permission of character impacting wounds. Now this thread isn't about making a new rule or anything of the sort. Just wanted a discussion and/or to bring light to the importance of permadeathing. Now not a lot of newer players will see/know some of the things im talking about and i'll be mostly talking about my perspective and experience of this happening.

Pre-lore wipe I went through 4 characters all I hostile RPed with, I allowed myself to go through 4 characters in 4 months because I would give storylines an end or allow storylines to progress, OOCly it is basically taking one for the team. I'm going to use my character Will Cornick as an example, was in the family (3rd iteration the lesser one known as everyone else) and we did a lot of bad shit, scared people and fucked with other groups with different beliefs/ideals. We fucked with the Lost Souls and killed 3 characters (All which perma-death from the encounter) and this sparked an enormous amount of roleplay between the groups also to the people around because in a way everyone is affected because everyone knows everyone in a way. Finally my past caught up to me and I had two hours of great RP with Credired and Tony's people at the time. Here are the videos if anyone is interested.

Now the issue i'm finding currently is that people are making big IC decisions to be hostile for example we came across a man who wanted to behead Dolores Haze, and my character having a trustworthy relationship with the girl from times in Riptide and what not felt this was not on at all. He had already been captured by 3 other groups (We did not know this ICly or OOCly) and tortured him. We thought if anyone caught him properly he'd probably be dead on the floor  somewhere, but he was not and after being told about him wanting to behead a 13 year old girl, then him telling us that he is going to chop her up and send her to us piece by piece we thought ICly wow this guy is relentless, we've tried talking to him but he is hellbent on killing her. So the reasonable thing to do that will benefit and save the most amount of people is for this person to be killed. After asking the individual for rights it was denied, when we asked him about this OOCly the reasoning was because he had only had the character for two days and that he wanted to keep it until .63.  We ended up chucking the guy off the building and it's up to him how he plays that out, we RPed he survived it by hitting the big trash bin full of trash that broke his fall. 

Now I know it is up to the player's choice what happens to their storylines and their characters as it clearly states in the rules.

Powergaming refers to forcing an action, condition or belief upon another players character beyond what the game mechanics allow. For example, hurting them in a way that would prevent that person from using the character in the future.

  • 10.1 You are not allowed to use powergaming against other players, unless the action is specifically allowed by the other player.
  • 10.2 You may not force any permanent status on other characters without explicit permission (for example "//permission to scar?"). This includes forcing them to eat human meat, scarring them in a visible place, removing body parts or otherwise permanently harming them.
  • 10.3 Permanent killing a character (aka "permadeath") is a decision that is taken only by the character owner. Permadeath is final, once a character is declared as killed by the owner it may not be used ever again.

But I want to bring up to people the importance of permadeathing/allowing permissions upon your character WITHIN reason, now i'm not saying that anyone can kill you because it is 'Realistic' and they don't want it coming back on them, but if there is a genuine storyline and reason that will further RP for multiple groups/people I thinking people should be more open to the fact that it will open up for more RP for that storyline, also the fact that it stops awkward encounters. Some people get executed and dont even have wounds, it just makes no sense and makes thing awkward. There are only so many times a group can capture you for something and you deny them rights before that group stops bothering with you on an OOC level because they are just wasting their time. Its like reading the same chapter of a book 6 times, sure it was good the first 6 times but then you just know how everything is going to happen and that is no fun for anyone just because someone wants to keep your character. 

If people do not permadeath/permascar in SOME situations that are valid storylines will not progress. Things will not get done and then there will be 100 threads on why RP is so stale on the server and everyone will start blaming each other or the LMs for some shit. But at the end of the day it is up to you the player how you roleplay, but I just want each and every roleplayer in this community that permadeathing is an important part of RP and if everyone has a magic bubble of immunity and a wolverine healing then no one should be surprised when the server does not fill up because RP is just repeating itself.

I know with the new damage system that is in place is to prevent this kind of thing but that system does not apply to IC scars and whatnot mostly just how many firefight deaths you have, so most power for time being is in the player's hands. This system will aid prevent the conundrum but not all of it.

On the bright side I don't want this thread to be negative at all, just want people's thoughts and perspectives on the situation. Currently i'm finding RP very fresh and enjoyable with a lot of newer faces and players coming into the server allowing more widespread dynamics and what not. And honestly I do think that this lorewipe has improved the community's level of commitment as much as people want to say it hasn't.

Thanks for reading!

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Good read. I agree 100%, and have had long discussions with people about this in the past. I perma'd four characters in the last lore, all of them either to end my own storylines, or to further the storylines of those around me, often both. There is no better feeling than getting a satisfying end to a character ..

I remember that storyline you mentioned, with the Lost Souls and the Family. Although I was not directly involved in it until the very end, I did witness some of it. I was in town the day you killed three of the Souls, and I was at the summer camp when Tony and the others finally got their revenge. That was a long and great storyline, everyone involved did a fine job, especially @Tony

In the end, I turned one of the last surviving members of the Family over to the Lost Souls, not only to help wrap up their storyline, but also one I had with that character from way before any of that stuff happened. @BillyR I love you!

Now, that example you mentioned. If someone is that set on killing another character, for whatever reason they have, they should be prepared to perma their own character if it backfires. If they're not willing to do that, they shouldn't get into such extreme hostilites in the first place.

Edited by Oyface

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I agree with pretty much everything stated. I've witnessed people being shot point blank in the head, but then the next day I see them walking the streets with no injury. (Its even worse when some of these encounters have quite an impact and they choose to deny permadeath multiple times)

 

As OyFace mentioned as well

2 hours ago, Oyface said:

Now, that example you mentioned. If someone is that set on killing another character, for whatever reason they have, they should be prepared to perma their own character if it backfires. If they're not willing to do that, they shouldn't get into such extreme hostilites in the first place.

Roleplay is always a two way street. And I couldn't say it better myself.

Now I understand fully some people either really like their characters or have different ideas for how the story will play out. But to add onto everything you said already, sometimes the story should be cut short. Just like in real life, we dont all get our happy endings. 

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@RogueSolace  I pretty much agree with you a 100%. You truly are an asset to the community. The only thing I will say is that whilst some of us are ready to commit to realism, others simply are not. I've said it before and I'll say it again. People want to go 0 to a 100 real quick and a lot of the RP that happens in game right now doesn't make any sense. And you know what, I'm partially guilty of it as well because you tend to adjust to what others provide. I've done my absolute best to RP as realistic as possible and quite frankly, I still do that to a certain extent but when I am involved in a story line in which things that are happening, aren't making any sense I have a simple choice to make. Do I roll along with it for the sake of RP or do I shut myself off from it and get no RP at all.

There is a simple fact. There are more rookie Roleplayers in the community than hardcore Roleplayers. I have been in RP text communities where 1 action/diaglogue post consisted of multiple paragraphs that included movements of your character along with thoughts. The game doesn't allow you to do that, nor do people here have patience enough to wait until you have written your post. In that regard we are also quite limited. And you know what, I do understand to a certain degree. Some people are just not up for to commit as much as others are.

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To me, as long as the reasoning behind the death makes sense then you can perma. If some dude came up to me and just wanted me dead for no plausible IC reason then why would I perma from the encounter? I feel like there are parts everyone plays in each others weird little DayZRP storylines and it's a give and take. If you were running in Kab and got yeeted by some whitename you NEVER had a encounter with before, you wouldn't perma even if the RP was decent enough. I mean, why would you? You want a fitting end to your char. If you play a bad dude, you want the people you were bad to to be the ones who perma you. If someone wanted to kill my char. it would have to make a lot of IC sense, just being like 'I'm a fucked up cannibal that loves to eat flesh' would not convince me to perma unless I had a on-going encounter/storyline with that person. I picked a kid to play for one of two reasons; One. No juicing, thank fuck. Two; it allows people to react differently. When you encounter a child/young person everyone has ways they can react to them. I've met people who hate kids, and as such they can react accordingly and build RP off of it and from those around them. I've had people who've lost their own kids and project that onto my char. allowing for dialog and development of their chars. Like when Galaxy and Honeybee took Aristocrat and I hostage, Honeybee did a great job of tackling the moral questioning of handing a child over to what he understood as a bad situation. If someone wanted to kill a child, they would really need a valid and built up reasoning and not just a 'I'm a bad dude who wants to kill kids'. I'm waiting for the day when my char. takes a turn for the worst, I've even contemplated at some point dying to a infected, or becoming infected (though that's really a option now ... ) and seeing how people deal with a slow death rather than a sudden one, and rather than a single person taking my char. out then perma'ing. I'd like to see how people deal with that on a IC level, and how that would change their chars. interactions etc. I'm such a passive RPer, I want to have people's char. develop around me, not saying they bend to my existence but that they can use my char. as a point in their chars progression to further their own. I call myself a NPC, because I'm passive and escorted around a lot. ;P But it works for me, I get to have people argue and create conflict or even goals just around the idea of something they either want to protect or destroy. It's to the point where certain things don't need a //Permission? to do. Like when Tony slapped my char, there would be no way for a child to stop a grown man from hitting her. Or when King grabbed my chars. arm to stop her from running away. These are things I accept that can realistically happen, but I digress. In the end to Perma needs to be, I think, something that has been built up, something that you and the other party(s) have been working toward in your own sort of storylines so it's a fitting demise in the end of it all. No one wants to lose a char. they are attached to, specially one they've played for a bit but to help further progression for RP for others? Then, yeah. Let bad things happen to your char. Let them get scarred, let them get hurt and RP out those injuries, and in the end at some point if it makes IC sense and feels like a good way to close that chapter, let them Perma. 

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Since I was whitelisted until lorewipe I played the exact same character, not because I wasn't committed to the realism but because all of my deaths weren't  RPed out properly(in my opinion). Most of my exections were extremely quick, and had no RP involved. To give you an example, it was usually an initiation, movement to another location, and then I was executed with very few words exchanged. Now, I'm not sure about you but there is no way in hell im ending an amazing story I was working on for nearly a year with just that. Now, I havnt been in game in over a month, but from what I've heard things are already going back to that sort of RP. I always told people, if you roleplayed with me to the best of your ability I would let you do anything to me, but that never happened in my hundreds of hours of playing.

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8 minutes ago, Brady said:

Since I was whitelisted until lorewipe I played the exact same character, not because I wasn't committed to the realism but because all of my deaths weren't  RPed out properly(in my opinion). Most of my exections were extremely quick, and had no RP involved. To give you an example, it was usually an initiation, movement to another location, and then I was executed with very few words exchanged. Now, I'm not sure about you but there is no way in hell im ending an amazing story I was working on for nearly a year with just that. Now, I havnt been in game in over a month, but from what I've heard things are already going back to that sort of RP. I always told people, if you roleplayed with me to the best of your ability I would let you do anything to me, but that never happened in my hundreds of hours of playing.

Exactly. When most people execute somebody it's just "we took you hostage. Do you wana perma your character?" Like, come on guys. Make it last. Torture him (or her), do something otehr than just try to perma their character. And especially don't ask to perma their character if you've had minimal engagements with them before. That's why I've never perma'd my character.

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2 minutes ago, Jordan Rainey said:

Exactly. When most people execute somebody it's just "we took you hostage. Do you wana perma your character?" Like, come on guys. Make it last. Torture him (or her), do something otehr than just try to perma their character. And especially don't ask to perma their character if you've had minimal engagements with them before. That's why I've never perma'd my character.

Just sounds like you've never received good meaningful RP in hostage scenarios...

Edited by Galaxy

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Just now, Galaxy said:

Just sounds like you've never received good meaningful RP...

I've had good RP, just not good execution/hostage RP because hardly anybody gives it.

Edited by Jordan Rainey

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56 minutes ago, Galaxy said:

Just sounds like you've never received good meaningful RP in hostage scenarios...

The most meaningful hostage situation I have ever had was when we took @Sleepyhead and @Watchman down to balota(I believe you were there which is why I'm using this example). The build up to this situation was HUGE, one of the biggest members of our faction had left to be with the leader, I had been tortured because of them, my men were killed because of them, and even then there was no reason to execute. I had the upper hand on them, just like most of the people do when they have hostages. Instead of shooting these people in the face, we tortured them and made them work for us. If they didn't do what I said, then I would ask for permadeath. That is a good build up, most people(I believe) now a days have one bad interaction with someone and believe that is enough rp to pistol whip. Nothing is truly meaningful to people anymore, there are no story's. I tried to bring cool story's when I played(like the one described above), but there were always those groups who don't give a fuck that go around killing everything. If you can honestly give me some top quality RP galaxy, and it's not as simple as an initiation to execute then fuck yes you can perm me any day.

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1 hour ago, Brady said:

.... most people(I believe) now a days have one bad interaction with someone and believe that is enough rp to pistol whip. Nothing is truly meaningful to people anymore, there are no story's. I tried to bring cool story's when I played(like the one described above), but there were always those groups who don't give a fuck that go around killing everything. If you can honestly give me some top quality RP galaxy, and it's not as simple as an initiation to execute then fuck yes you can perm me any day.

Having witnessing a LARGE number of players running around calling people "Fags" and being extremely hostile with little RP, I can 100% back this statement. Just because I had little time in before the lore wipe doesn't mean what I am witnessing in the CURRENT LORE isn't becoming problematic. There are too many people who are acting like this is PVP with a no KOS rule. Very little Roleplay, and very little reason to do anything really. 

 

When you try to RP out being out of breath, and you get called a "stupid little B**ch" when they are running the same distance with more gear, you start to wonder if these people have ever ran more than 5 minutes. Realism has gone out the window with a lot of these people, especially the ones that hang around severograd. 

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Hey, its your friendly neighborhood samti Coming around to type his toughts:

 

I personally think if you put your character in a position where the people ask //premision to permakill  you should say yes so after that they could focus on other story's and are not constantly having to think "oh yeah we have to find this guy and kill him". Like previous lore I accepted a permakill just because the only thing that was hapenning was my charachter getting excuted over and over again and even before they got to killing these sessions took hours wich could be spend doing other rp (meeting new people, hunting another Douche, Rebuilding a camp etc).

I hope i made sense

Thank you very much for reading friendly neighborhood Samti OUT

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2 hours ago, Samti said:

I personally think if you put your character in a position where the people ask //premision to permakill  you should say yes so after that they could focus on other story's and are not constantly having to think "oh yeah we have to find this guy and kill him". Like previous lore I accepted a permakill just because the only thing that was hapenning was my charachter getting excuted over and over again and even before they got to killing these sessions took hours wich could be spend doing other rp (meeting new people, hunting another Douche, Rebuilding a camp etc).

I hope i made sense

Made perfect sense. Having a character that is viewed as an obstacle and not a person halts a lot of possibilities. Especially when its the same people killing him. 

"Oh we threw you off a building just yesterday, but let's shoot you again after already filling you full of lead last week" 

 

It becomes redundant and silly. Hearing the same people talk about how they survived literally the impossible isn't fun, and I know it doesn't progress their story either.

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I agree completely. I understand that it can be hard to part with a character you put so much time and effort into, but your choice of killing it off won't be in vain. Death in real life is extremely devastating and it changes everyone involved, especially if you are murdered. In RP it is no different. Not only will it further the RP around you but you will gain a lot of experience out of it. Now, yeah, some deaths don't warrant a perma, that's inevitable. Think about your deaths more though. What happened? Who was involved? Even if it was an accident you could choose to perma and make the person who killed you feel guilty and they'll have to live with that, thus furthering RP. As part of a role play community I believe that we owe it to everyone to provide the best game play to our abilities. We've got a good thing going here. 

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I totally agree. Good read! I want realism, at least that's what I signed up for!

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21 hours ago, Red said:

-snip-

@Red Thank you! :D <3 This is true as well, which is why the realism in how we also react gets effected. Like I said, someone just wants to be that person who shoots everyone else up but when they get shot just goes back to running around, instead of being incapacitated for a long time like they should, its not fair for us to have to rp to those standards when someone else is being a total jerk about it.

Part of the issues I see from being staff in another game is how newbies are interacted with. sometimes they need simple correction or explanations to things that take a moment to do and fixes the situation. The problem is we have no way to actually pm them in game about it. So we have to resort to //ooc hey... then usually other people yell at you //STOP OOC . It's like, to me, if you're not the person I'm talking to and I'm actually saying something important, just freaking ignore it. If its stupid comments and pointless things, totally yell at us. But if I'm trying to help someone learn, it can have a major effect. I'm not usually in TS because I can't focus on that AND give great rp. Plus, even if I was, I don't know whose character I'm interacting with to poke them, or that rp is going to just speed past and go to hell because of a simple mistake or misunderstanding. 

Like during medical rp someone had sedative and told me that their heart rate was getting higher. So, myself and another had to go //OOC just want to let you know, a sedative would slow your heart down, so if its raising for a reason then okay, but not sure if that's intentional or you are confused about something.  Their response was //oh sorry, I didn't know how that works, yeah its slowing down not speeding up :)

Problem fixed, like 10 seconds, immediately back to rp, for me no immersion is lost, its like hitting the pause button. RP pauses, you deal with the OOC then go right back to where you were. I don't expect everything to be perfectly realistic. People shooting each other, we would have A LOT of limbless people. Being shot in a limb, especially by high caliber usually means that limb is going bye bye. Or is being damaged in a way to never use it again. Just because someone is annoyed with me and wants to shoot me twice in the leg to 'make me talk' or something, I'm not losing my leg to them. Because more than likely, it's something they do on the normal.   

The other thing almost no one takes into account is PSYCHOLOGICAL TRAUMA. Or if they do, they do it completely wrong. I've got PTSD so mostly speaking from my own experiences. People tend to over-exaggerate. 

example - person has ptsd from something, something happens in game 'triggering' the ptsd. Person flips out and is having a 'flashback' that they can't be pulled out of. they suddenly think that everyone around them is the bad guys from the memory, pull a weapon of some kind and try to fight their way out, because 'the flashback is real'. 

fix- that's not how most flashbacks work. Some can do similar things, like I know a lot of Vets who will hit the deck when a loud noise happens out of reflex and ptsd. There was a story of someone in my family having a Vietnam flashback during fireworks where they suddenly dropped to the ground, started army crawling, and freaking out thinking they were being bombed. Two family members decided to play along to calm him until he snapped out of it. In these cases, the majority of the time, people are not violent. When you have a flashback, its paralyzing. You have an anxiety attack, you can't breathe, you feel absolutely terrified and in most cases can't move or are doing everything you can from running around screaming.

The same with things like Schizophrenia and multiple personality disorders. two COMPLETELY different things. I ended up having to write up a tutorial on HOW to play those.  Multiple personalities develop as a way to 'protect' the mind from a memory or emotion. Those personalities are usually NEVER in any ways HARMFUL to anything or anyone, or are 'harmful to cope for the persona'. The personality is being evoked because of trauma and the inability to cope with it, its giving you an exaggerated persona to help you cope. It's not going to do anything to make it worse. Also personalities don't fight to stay. They are literally an extended part of your own persona, when you have therapy to get better, you cope with the problem, they cease to be needed, and go back to normal. There is no kicking, screaming, wanting to exist. a lot of schizo people also know or realize when they're hallucinating because it doesn't make sense, so they ignore it. I do that when I have sleep deprivation and start hallucinating verbally. It's also never been evil voices for me, its usually someone I know calling me, and when I go to investigate, no one has yelled anything. 

 

20 hours ago, Brayces said:

-snip-

@Brayces Yep, agreed. Also on the issue of trigger happy though -_-; also good feedback on basic common sense (being slapped, etc)

19 hours ago, Brady said:

-snip-

@Brady Yep this. If you have a good justifiable reason to do things, then okay, but if you're just doing it 'because you can' you're a bully and fuck you. Like the few times I got to interact with you, the tension was fucking terrifying, but then nothing bad happened. Except for the creepiness of a guy you just met suddenly being like "I love you...." xDOOC was great lol. perfect example of things happening that conduct great rp without having to be violent

19 hours ago, Jordan Rainey said:

-snip-

@Jordan Rainey Exactly and thus the problem -_- so many people want to have villain characters but so few actually know how to play them

16 hours ago, TheMightyToenail said:

-snip-

@TheMightyToenail omfg THIS "There are too many people who are acting like this is PVP with a no KOS rule. Very little Roleplay, and very little reason to do anything really. "  Like what I pointed out in my original post, right now, there is fear, but people are not starving or omg desperate. Even if they were, the human reaction is TO HELP OTHERS SO YOU CAN SURVIVE, not HELP YOU AND FUCK EVERYONE ELSE SO YOU CAN SURVIVE. I get wanting to have conflict and things but ffs its all some people know how to do and annoying as hell. It's like why most major RP areas eventually get moved around. Too many people deciding 'I'm just going to rob people' and people get sick of it. I mean like, once in awhile is fine, but at the same time, its just being done totally wrong.

 

16 hours ago, Samti said:

Hey, its your friendly neighborhood samti Coming around to type his toughts:

 

I personally think if you put your character in a position where the people ask //premision to permakill  you should say yes so after that they could focus on other story's and are not constantly having to think "oh yeah we have to find this guy and kill him". Like previous lore I accepted a permakill just because the only thing that was hapenning was my charachter getting excuted over and over again and even before they got to killing these sessions took hours wich could be spend doing other rp (meeting new people, hunting another Douche, Rebuilding a camp etc).

I hope i made sense

Thank you very much for reading friendly neighborhood Samti OUT

@Samti Always appreciate your feedback :D I get what you're saying, for me its more of 'does this make sense?' and 'are they doing this for a reason that makes sense or just being an ass?'  If its a long ongoing battle between you and another and is totally justified, I can see being willing to perma for it.

9 hours ago, Stoobs said:

-snip-

@Stoobs This too, we put so much effort into our chs and suddely, bam, bad guy, bang bang.Um.... what? Also fully agreed RP deaths have major influences to characters, but it still should be the players personal decision of when to do that.

8 hours ago, Ceps said:

-snip-

@Ceps sadly there is only so much realism we can do. Like I've been studying medical stuff for about a year, not to actually do it, but to help me RP knowing what I'm doing. Down to nitty gritty details, not so much. Unless I have a literal chart I am starting at that states dosages, I'm not telling you "Im giving you .5 mg of morphine" not everyone is going to understand that, its easier to say "I'm giving you painkiller" or "I'm giving you morphine". We can't be expected to know everything and to rp everything just right, but it helps having an idea. Plus everyone who got surgery would likely be dead because if you eat anything before being put under, you likely will throw up and either choke or give yourself pneumonia and die. Do we have time to rp that realistically? Nope. So its skipped entirely for game sake. 

 

-----------

I'm really proud of everyone, this is a really good chat :D This is how you do things, you don't just insult everything, you actually come and point out good things and how to change not good things for the better. Really hope this helps a lot of people!

I'm also adding something from a thread (Too early for bandits?) I posted on, because it gives a really good rundown of my issues with past and current robberies. 

Brick wall 1

Spoiler
  On 8/5/2017 at 8:39 AM, Sin said:

Remember Japan after the tsunami?  Remember New York after 9/11?  Remember the madness there, the looting, the cannibalism, the rampant dog-eat-dog opportunistic every-man-for-himself attitude that resulted in hundreds of deaths?

No?

Good, you are one of the rare reality based people of this community.

Far too many people here still have the "mom never lets me have any fun" mentality and the moment they're given the opportunity to express any kind of power over another, they do it destructively.  Grow up and think like an adult.  Unless you're playing a stunted man-child in game.  Frankly though, if you were playing a stunted-man child, your chances of survival would be cut short.  Especially over the long term.  People need people.  End of.

Of course there will be some robbery going on, maybe even organized gangs.  But honestly, such gangs would quickly be put down by vigilante justice, given how many survivors and organized military forces are still roaming the land.  Individuals or small groups would still retain their humanity.  It would be a rare bandit indeed who would rob someone and then shoot them once they're disarmed (obv talking about reality here, as that's already against the rules).  As far as cannibals and psychokillers, it will forever be 'too early'™ for that.

tl;dr - stop waving your e-peen around.  We've all seen it.  It's not that impressive.

And bless you @Aiko for a well-reasoned, well-rounded, and entirely rational response.  I envy your calm.

Also, haven't met them in game yet, but if their group page has anything to do with it, Rebirth seems to have the right idea.

  On 8/6/2017 at 10:43 AM, Sin said:

Hear hear!  Excellent post, sir.  Have some BeanZ.

Often, for the robbed, banditry becomes bland and boring - it's always more or less the same experience.  Sure, for the bandits it's always fresh and exciting and you don't know what might happen, but for the complying victim, it tends to become a boring routine.  If you can't see past that, then you're probably boring and selfish in bed as well.  So good luck with that.

What works is having a purpose.  One of my favorite groups and the best role players I've ever met played as a group of rowdy, redneck good ol' boys who were fun to meet and hang around with, but any perceived slight of Dixie or southern culture, and you'd earn their undying enmity.

VDV/SVR/S-GRU have/had a good gig because they have license to rob anyone at any time, provided that they're carrying an automatic weapon.  Note that it makes no sense for them to take everything every time, as they're just trying to maintain order, but at least they have a reason.  Back in the day when S-GRU was the scourge of the server, they supported TOR (the most non-violent group) because of their shared socialist ideals.

CLF were a bunch of ultra nationalistic xenophobes with a goal of ejecting all foreigners from Chernarus.  Sure, they'd break your legs and leave you stranded at the border with a pistol and one bullet for 'defense' (don't try this at home, you'll earn a quick ban strike), but they would go out of their way to help any native Chernarussians who needed it.  Their PvP skills were mostly pretty good, and their RP was often held up as a standard.

SDS were feared by virtually everyone, but when they had a bad day, they would 'go undercover', often as humble fishermen and try to wheedle their way into someone's trust, only to betray them at the best opportunity.  They even sometimes teamed up with their enemies to achieve a common goal.  And while the prospect of meeting them was terrifying to many, more often than not, especially if the victim was able to roll with the punches, the experience turned out to be unforgettable.  SDS had some of the most hilarious (if insensitive) RP on the server.

Bottom line:  BE CREATIVE!  Come up with something that can be fun for everyone, something that makes sense, and remember that you're not here solely for the entertainment of yourself and your friends - if you're going to rob someone of the virtual goods that they've spent a few hours collecting, then you owe them an experience that they will enjoy and remember for at least a few hours.

wil-2-310x415.png


This, all of this.

I get it’s a game and people want to be the bad guys and bully people and don’t give a shit that others don’t like it, and go ‘stop your whining’ (cause obviously everyone’s not a good as them and too bad, doesn’t matter they’re the ones never being bullied). Sorry but if you’re the one at the top of the pole and can’t get over the fact that bullying people isn’t something everyone enjoys, that’s a problem; especially when it’s only ever countered with ‘then stop being weak’ or ‘shut up and take it’. This is supposed to be fun for everyone. I’m not asking you to stop robbing, I’m asking you to look at how you and others are doing it and take it on yourself to actually get better at RP and make it fun for people. Get more creative, don’t call everyone else stupid.    

I’ve spent my entire life as someone who was bullied by others. You’re not coming off as all important are powerful, you’re coming off as someone who is ignorant and can’t get over themselves. There are ways to balance hostile RP so everyone is having fun, you just have to take your blinders off and look around.

Good hostile rp for me is very complicated and not easily found.

The issue with in game stuff is that literally in this game we need things to survive. We run around, find the things, and then go try to enjoy ourselves with RP while trying to not starve to death or something. Then someone puts a gun in our face and starts yelling. The immediate mental reaction is ‘fuck, now I have to do this all over again.’  They take our stuff and start with the threats and questioning. Mental point now goes, okay I’m rping but shit… I lost x,y,z. I got x here which means I have to take this much time to go look for another… .etc etc etc.

What I’ve realized in my own RP is that what I stated above is EXACTLY what happens. You have to be dependent on survival in this game and without it; things are time consuming and can be irritating to players. It’s an ooc thought process that is automatic. Do you still rp and try to enjoy it? Of course. But in the back of your mind you’re making the mental checklist. That’s what kills it for me. I can’t enjoy the rp. It’s a stupid reason, but it’s a legitimate one. Yes its RP over stuff, but when you need stuff to not actually die in this game, it becomes a thing if you want it to or not.

I really hate some of the NVFL scenarios too. I get people not being able to be all ‘super person’ and ‘I can take out 6 guys with automatics with 1!’ type of thing. That’s not okay.

I’ve had a friend multiple times been approached by 3-6 people trying to rob him. (@The Marshal) Each time he pulls a gun and shoots them all dead. I have never ONCE seen a report against him for it. Yet someone else does the same and its ‘boo this person is nvfl ban them (because I didn’t get what I want)!’

Also, if my character was told horrible things were going to happen to her, being tortured for long periods etc. You know what fuck that. If someone told me that IRL I would be doing EVERY possible thing I could think of to get the fuck away. What are hijacking victims taught to do with their cars? Slam the car into a tree (pref passenger side where other person is) hard enough to seriously damage/airbags. The intent is to hurt the assailant more than you and hopefully get away or police get to you right after. Drive erratically to get police attention. Bail from the moving car and pray you don’t get run over by police or someone behind you. This is all usually with a gun to you. This isn’t NVFL this is knowing that if you don’t try to fight your way out the consequences are going to be so much worse.

(The thing that annoys me too is it’s shoved in faces. If you’re going to rob me, you’re going to. Don’t tell me it’s my fault you decided to jump me and then try to do all these things to me.) 

I’d be looking for every chance I could. Get a pen, stab eyes, ears etc. Try to move in ways to get tied up looser without them noticing. Leave a trail of some kind. Use nails, bite, etc.

Why? Because your life is going to be at catastrophic risk and fuck that, doing something that may get you badly hurt but you’re ALIVE and probably better off is a much better option. Yet if I were to actually wait until I had a chance to do something, anything, and possibly somehow got away without being killed, I’d be called on NVFL.

I don’t know, if you were really faced with the reality of torture, would you just sit there and accept it? We are only capable of handling so much pain. The ‘hero who never breaks’ is a myth, this is taught in fucking SEAL survival training. EVERYONE has a breaking point, instead of trying to be the tough guy they are taught instead to TRY to leak info slowly enough so that by the time the people get to whatever they’ve been told about, it’s already over with.

I get wanting to have fun rp, but people who just go right to take my shit and torture, I have 0 fun with. It’s ‘oh this again.’

 

Now I have had a bunch of hostile rp that I had an awesome time with. But I also realized, most of it was people who didn’t take all my shit and make me have to ooc worry about surviving later.

·         Batok torturing Solace because she was led into the right place at the very wrong time under not so correct pretenses (also very long recovery rp. Major <3 to Logan, Lucky, Rose and Ender)

·         Batok ending up with a crush on Solace and chasing her around the trading post (more suspense rp than anything) Batok would just keep getting near her and making comments and she’d freak the hell out and try to bolt somewhere, or just stand there and panic until someone else noticed and grabbed her.

·         Batok got drunk and kidnapped Solace in an attempt to run off with her xD that was hilarious. IC it was terrifying. Almost got made to torture someone. Was scary as hell IC but so much fun to rp. None of my stuff was taken. The funny part was I was actually GIVEN a box of Winchester rounds when I thought he was going to try to take my gun. The complete confusion IC from that was great.

o   Batok grabs Winchester and tugs it around from her backpack ‘ooh what’s this’

o   ‘oh for fucks sake you took my other one last time, this one was given to me for Christmas and I’m being good and haven’t drawn or tried to use it once!’

o   ‘Here!’ Drops a box of ammo into my lap

o   ‘wait….what?!”

o   *batok grinning*

o   ‘uhhhhhhhh………I’m…I think I’m good…’

o   Wont take it back

o   “um…thanks?’

o    = Batok being all happy and my character being so fucking confused at what just happened

·         Hostage situation one lady took my gun mags and ammo but let me keep the AKM everyone else kept fucking stealing. I really liked that.

·         Got kidnapped by @Squillium's group with @Elmo. They thought I was @Mexis girlfriend IC and wanted to do horrible things to her to send a message. Got punched in the face for ‘lying’. Completely freaked out because she kept being told ‘she wouldn’t be hurt’ but the only real capture experience she had was Batok so that meant the total opposite. Squil took a bunch of Elmos stuff but had a great RP where he flipped out about the vest having pictures and Squil making sure that he got those back before making him leave. Then actually not hurting me. Apparently he got hell for it for months but for me that made the rp so much more suspenseful and meaningful.

·         Not me but my favorite Marshal story (not bandit related)- he had his breakdown and was with Ian on a roof. Hit Ian with a cattle prod knocking him out. Jumped of the roof, broke his leg, and ran the fuck away.

·         Had fun with @Otter and @Undead with major suspense rp. Got randomly taken, be told was going to die horribly, watched others be shot, got questioned, then ‘eh you’re being good you can go.’ Did not like losing all my stuff but the rp was a lot more suspenseful and had meaning. It was about information and keeping control, not I want your stuff.

·         Got captured by someone for being Jim’s wife. Super panicked and thought was going to be tortured. Nope, they just wanted to use me as a bargaining piece. Returned me scared to death but unharmed.

·         Being captured via Jim’s wife again, got water boarded once, then three guys tried to get me to marry one of them. Then got confused when I refused and decided I was useless and let me be on my way.

·         Etc

In my opinion, really good hostile rp is rp with real reason and not just ‘give me your shit so you have to now worry about taking hours to get it back’.

In the cases above-

·         Information about something that was happening I had no idea Batok was related to until it was too late. The situation was nothing like I had been told.

·         Suspense of having attacker have a sudden fascination with you and chase you around

·         Suspense of being kidnapped by stalker and forced to do things with no idea of escape or being let go. Also lots of WTF.

·         Eh our friend just paid us to hold you here. Gimme your mags and ammo and don’t do something stupid.

·         Suspense rp mostly

Create better situations to have hostile rp. Simple.

Brick wall 2

Spoiler

Now back to catastrophe, human society is so damn complicated. We as people are socially wired to respond certain ways to certain situations. Here are some good examples to help understand the mindset.

Very good point from Game of Thrones, Bronn-

“And how did you accomplish this marked drop in thievery?

“Me an’ the lads rounded up all the known thieves”

“For questioning?

“Ah, no. It’s just the unknown thieves we need to worry about now.”

“We’ve talked about this.”

“Aye we’ve talked about this. Have you ever been in a city under siege? Maybe this parts not in your books. See it’s not the fighting that kills most people, it’s the starving. Foods worth more than gold. Noble ladies sell their diamonds for a sack of potatoes. Things get bad enough, the poor start eating each other. Thieves, they love a siege. As soon as the gates are sealed they steal all the food. By the time it’s all over, they’re the richest men in town.

 

www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/5/4/1461/pdf

Global catastrophes, such as nuclear war, pandemics and ecological collapse threaten the sustainability of human civilization. To date, most work on global catastrophes has focused on preventing the catastrophes, neglecting what happens to any catastrophe survivors. To address this gap in the literature, this paper discusses adaptation to and recovery from global catastrophe. The paper begins by discussing the importance of global catastrophe adaptation and recovery, noting that successful adaptation/recovery could have value on even astronomical scales. The paper then discusses how the adaptation/recovery could proceed and makes connections to several lines of research. Research on resilience theory is considered in detail and used to develop a new method for analyzing the environmental and social stressors that global catastrophe survivors would face. This method can help identify options for increasing survivor resilience and promoting successful adaptation and recovery. A key point is that survivors may exist in small isolated communities disconnected from global trade and, thus, must be able to survive and rebuild on their own. Understanding the conditions facing isolated survivors can help promote successful adaptation and recovery. That said, the processes of global catastrophe adaptation and recovery are highly complex and uncertain; further research would be of great value.”

 

https://www.insidescience.org/news/middle-ages-societies-surprisingly-responsive-natural-disasters

“The country very much in the vanguard of this sort of work was Italy. ... by far the most organized country in dealing with natural disasters,” said Petley partly because it was prone to disasters and partly because it was divided into city-states which could operate more efficiently at a local level.

The Low Countries also were particularly adept because of the constant threat of flooding from the sea, according to Kelly DeVries, a historian at Loyola University of Maryland in Baltimore who was not part of this study.

"Usually [relief] wasn’t done at a national level. It was not organized by the king.” Petley said.

In an agrarian-based society, the king was more interested in the countryside, so the urban areas were left to fend for themselves, according to DeVries.

“It was more of a local issue; it would be local landowners, as they accumulated assets and had more potential losses in disasters, they started to develop structures that would effectively insure them against the risk,” Petley said. In big cities it was the city authorities that organized disaster mitigation and relief.”

 

http://www.resilience.org/stories/2011-03-17/psychology-disaster/

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/2158244013489684

http://www.cpbr.gov.au/disact/human-response.html

“Myth No.2 In the face of personal danger, people only think of themselves.

This is a popular theme in fictional disaster stories, where the selfish behaviour of most is a backdrop to the hero`s generosity. However the majority of people in disasters, behave with responsibility and concern for their neighbours. Many stories have emerged from the recent bushfires, of people endangering their own lives to ensure others were safe, of men helping save a neighbour`s house while their own burned.

There are always stories of self interest in all disasters, but although they tend to get the most publicity, they are far from representative. Disaster planning should take account of the fact that most people will think of others in an emergency.”

Myth No. 4 People do not react with severe emotional disturbance when there is no effect from the disaster on them.

This idea is based on the assumption that crisis situations cause people to break down and when they do so, they produce symptoms of mental illness. Where this does not happen, the expectation is that the person has "coped" and will not be affected by it, other than perhaps temporary reactions.

Serious mental disturbance occurs in only a very small number of cases. The majority of people employ the strengths and skills they have and meet the demands of the situation. At the same time, the stress of the disaster experience and the lengthy recovery process can be expected to have its effects on all of those involved. These problems are in the nature of normal reactions to an abnormal situation. However these reactions need to be understood. Most people will need extra help during the recovery period, even if only from family and friends. If these response-appropriate reactions are understood and recognised, they can be anticipated and dealt with before they develop into more serious problems, or cause major interferences to the ongoing events of regular life, such as child rearing and marriage.

 

http://disaster.ifas.ufl.edu/PDFS/CHAP20/D20-08.PDF

http://litis.univ-lehavre.fr/~bertelle/epnacs2011/epnacs2011-proceedings/inp-provitolo4epnacs2011.pdf

http://boingboing.net/2011/03/22/how-people-really-be.html

“In her gorgeous book A Paradise Built In Hell: The Extraordinary Communities That Arise In Disaster, Rebecca Solnit shows how this is how almost everybody responds to disaster, across continents and across contexts. When power grids are destroyed and city grids demolished, social grids light up.

This is so cross-cultural -- from Haiti to New Zealand -- that it is probably part of an evolved instinct inherent to our species, and it's not hard to see why. We now know that 60,000 years ago, the entire human race was reduced to a single tribe of 2000 human beings wandering the savannahs of Africa. That was it. That was us. If they -- our ancestors -- didn't have a strong impulse to look out for each other in a crisis, you wouldn't be reading this now.

Yet there are a few examples stubbornly fixed in the popular imagination of people reacting to a natural disaster by becoming primal and vicious. Remember the gangs "marauding" through New Orleans, raping and even cannibalizing people in the Super-Dome after Hurricane Katrina? It turns out they didn't exist. Years of journalistic investigations showed them to be racist fantasies. They didn't happen. Yes, there was some "looting" -- which consisted of starving people breaking into closed and abandoned shops for food. Of course human beings can behave atrociously - but the aftermath of a disaster seems to be the time when it is least likely.

This information is essential for knowing how to respond to disasters.”

Brick wall 3

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Elizabeth Smith

Some people will be lawless no matter what. People rape, steal and murder every day IRL :P 

My points are to look at HOW you are role playing because for a lot of people its become something they don't enjoy and the standard response is 'well too bad, I'm more powerful so nyah nyah, stop whining' or other degrading behavior. This is completely unproductive in any way and only is showing the person who is doing it to be self absorbed and non creative. I've spent my life dealing with this kind of crap attitude. 

I'm not saying don't be lawless. I'm saying look at how this shit works in a realistic situation and stop bullying others because its all you know how to do. its nowhere near as cool as you think it is. Most people put a gun in your face, talk to you, take your stuff, torture maybe, sell you, make you torture someone you care about, etc. Its BORING because that's the constant behavior. Before the wipe people, including myself, were completely desensitized to it IC then had our attackers bitching that 'You're not role-playing right!'. Actually, yes I am. You have enough people stick a gun in your face, threaten and do all the same shit, it gets old real fast and you just sit there going 'are we done yet?' Like people becoming desensitized to killing people IC. 'Oh I've seen so much of this it doesn't bother me anymore.' Okay, that's fair. So is people sticking a gun in my face and yelling at me.

I'm not against bandit characters. Look at this as more of a challenge for the wipe. I pulled several documents that scientifically show how people as a society act after a major disaster. They pull together to help each other. Even if its just specific people. It's how we've survived. You have those people, and of course you also have the people who take advantage of situations like that, robbing, destroying stuff, etc. 

You want to  be a better bandit? UP YOUR GAME. I gave several examples of players doing this where hostile situations were enjoyable because it WAS about the RP and NOT the gear. I get bandits want to take things, but at the same time, this is overplayed. It also goes into the other factors I talked about before with gear etc. 

  On 8/7/2017 at 4:06 PM, SomeWeirdAssGuy said:

Yeah, I don't think so. People don't suddenly turn into psychopaths because something fucky is going on with the world. It's not like one day there's law and the next it's complete lawlessness.

This too. Omg complete chaos! I'm suddenly evil! ...... no. 

Maybe you're trying to get food for your family and everyone keeps beating you up. So you decide to become stronger than them. Or find ways around what they do.

Maybe you're just really good at tracking down people, hey bounty hunter for hire! Who may or may not double cross for someone who pays more... 

Good at manipulation? Use it to get things IC. Make connections etc. Befriend the clueless random person who brings you stuff cause they're nice. 

"Oh you're a doctor? You're on your way to -somewhere far away-. Oh well that's just too bad." *initiate* "See I've got a friend down the road who is in serious need of care, and if you don't come provide that care to the best of your ability, you're not going to like the outcome." /proceed to go do medical rp and let dr be on their way

The point here is to challenge yourself. Don't just do hostile rp for the sake of it. Make it awesome. You can have massive tension and suspense in rp without hurting anyone at all. Everyone just jumps to the beat someone up stage. The most fun rps I've had usually involved maybe losing 1 or 2 things vs all my stuff and I wasn't actually hurt. Because it focused on something other than the gear. 

I'm not saying don't do bad things. I'm saying get better about why and how you're doing them.

 

 

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Oh also because @Galaxy did not hurt me and that one RP session, even though everyone else wanted him to. It enabled later, me be able to trust him when he came to help defend my group somewhere. If he had hurt me I responsible been fuck you. But because he went against what everyone else wanted and did something better morally that gave us something to work with later

Edited by RogueSolace

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1 hour ago, RogueSolace said:

@Ceps sadly there is only so much realism we can do. Like I've been studying medical stuff for about a year, not to actually do it, but to help me RP knowing what I'm doing. Down to nitty gritty details, not so much. Unless I have a literal chart I am starting at that states dosages, I'm not telling you "Im giving you .5 mg of morphine" not everyone is going to understand that, its easier to say "I'm giving you painkiller" or "I'm giving you morphine". We can't be expected to know everything and to rp everything just right, but it helps having an idea. Plus everyone who got surgery would likely be dead because if you eat anything before being put under, you likely will throw up and either choke or give yourself pneumonia and die. Do we have time to rp that realistically? Nope. So its skipped entirely for game sake. 

 

Wow, that's amazing. I feel i don't have that kind of commitment to choose to play a highly trained character like that, at least for now. I think you and others with that kind of committment set the bar, and are inspireing others to try new things and provide good rp.  Back to the topic of this thread, I plan on perma deathing my character, if the death makes sense. Meaning it's rp:ed and legit according to the rules. As Galaxy said I believe a death brings more depth to the rp. It's satisfying for my killers, it's sad and brings motivation of some kind to my characters friends and I get to make a completely new character. Also what galaxy described with the serial killer guy, he wants to chop off the head on people and plan to do that until beta, but don't want it to happen to his own character. I mean.. are you playing Michael Myers? :)

Edited by Ceps

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I agree with much of this.  I actually had a great RP moment where I was the initiator and had taken 4 people hostage for stealing.  Was I pissed OOC they found my shit and raided me?  Hell yea.  I knew right there and then that I was within my rights to kill them.  Would a report get put up for Ruleplay or NVFL because I initiated on 4 people who clearly were carrying a lot of stuff but because there were 4 of them I was simply outclassed?  Possibly, but that is not the route I took.  

OOC anger aside, I initiated and made dialogue along the usual lines of 'put your hands up' accompanied by a multitude of swears.  It was a tense situation where I did not know how much time I had before reinforcements would show up out of nowhere from them all having telepathy.  I know we have all been in that situation and I know we all can recognize when someone is using non-DayZ communication.  Being I was outnumbered I knew it would not be best to attempt to restrain nor frisk but them with hands up would certainly put an end to it, right?  Well, like I said before we all know when people are using non-DayZ communication and I could see it.

It happened but to me it did not break immersion and I ignored it and continued on knowing I would most likely get a bullet in my head from someone soon.  We had some back and forth from an angry me and an obvious scared and bargaining them.  I wanted so bad to just kill them after our dialogue thus far but to my surprise the RP started to get better and better.  As things calmed down and everyone was having ample time to react and play off each other it got better.  To my further surprise I was not killed and neither were they and that is not to say I still wasn't mad IC and OOC.

The RP still was very hostile and intense and you could tell either side was thinking about the next step, like how to push it further and because of some very admirable non-trigger happy people this hostile and very intense situation was allowed to play out to an eventual agreement of sorts.  

The parties parted ways and all was good, but I am left wondering OOC if I advanced their story.  They did advance mine and revenge came days later after meticulous scouting and information gathering.  IC I am now conflicted with future encounters of "bad" people.

I don't do much hostile RP as I find very limited reasons for use of it and have had ZERO good experiences of it; so it was a refreshing twist and was even better when people were given ample time to comply, complete actions, and not to just be "oh I gotta kill them before they kill me pew pew pew".

Unfortunately people are right about not thinking too much about injury or of what really makes sense.  Either of our sides could have easily turned tides and had an execution or 4.  Would it have made since?  Would there have been a perma asked?  I don't think if it did play out with death that perma would have been warranted nor agreed on either side.  This is still a game and mechanics can and will only get so real so imagination is key and when you lose that imagination you all lose.

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3 hours ago, RogueSolace said:

Oh also because @Galaxy did not hurt me and that one RP session, even though everyone else wanted him to. It enabled later, me be able to trust him when he came to help defend my group somewhere. If he had hurt me I responsible been fuck you. But because he went against what everyone else wanted and did something better morally that gave us something to work with later

Is this lorewipe, or pre lore with the saviours?

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1 hour ago, Galaxy said:

Is this lorewipe, or pre lore with the saviours?

Sorry, meant pre lore w saviors! Just was trying to give a good example of shaking things up and having good/bad results ?

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4 hours ago, Ceps said:

Snip

Lol I am not, him no idea. Also don't let RP be intimidating for you. The point of it entirely is that you want to have fun sometimes it's easiest to start off with a small character that really doesn't do that much that you can learn to pick up things from. 

 My first character solace started as simply being a civilian that had been protected by the military, made some good friends with them and got moved into the area right before all the shit went down. She had some basic survival skills and knew how to do things like hold a bandage on a wound that was about it.

I found some really great people and started rp with them and got a lot of great guidance.my medical RP started with @SpaceCowboy and @Redbond9. Later @Rose and @Ender

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Lol I am not, him no idea. Also don't let RP be intimidating for you. The point of it entirely is that you want to have fun sometimes it's easiest to start off with a small character that really doesn't do that much that you can learn to pick up things from. 

Exactly, I know all about RP being intimidating, it always is in the beginning. I use to GM tabletop rpgs, and it's amazing to see beginners become more comfortable after a few sessions. And as they become more comfortable, they also have more fun. You don't necessarily have to play an advanced character and "know your shit", as long as you try to put in the same effort as the consensus. 

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