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Glitch

The solution to death

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Glitch    15
Posted (edited)

Introduction

Recently there have been many different ideas about perma-death and death with consequence. I believe I have a solution to get people off the fence and put a majority in a nice middle ground. Perma-death and death with consequence are such complex ideas. Some people are totally for these ideas, some totally against it all and some on the fence. I love the RP it could potentially bring, it would make people value their characters lives A LOT more but then there are negatives to come along with that. If a character dies then the player has to rewrite a backstory or things don't go as planned for the player etc. If we don't have perma-death or some consequence then firefights are more frequent and it feels like people value their character's life less. I like the idea of perma-death but it has flaws as does everything, I don't think perma-death will ever be a rule so I am proposing a new idea that isn't perma-death and isn't a simple server mechanic.


Why my idea is different

I don't think the middle ground is in any recently proposed directions. All efforts to make death matter are great but the consequence simply cannot feel technical or mechanical. What I mean by that is, when you die the consequence shouldn't be a temp-ban from the server or a time limitation on your main character, these things feel too technical. They don't feel real, they don't feel like a loss and therefore they wont really impact how someone feels about their character's life. If my character were in a near death situation I wouldn't feel emotionally shocked or super relieved because I almost lost something important to me. I would feel relieved because I don't have to sit around for a week waiting to play on my character again or having to wait for a queue if I get a temp-ban.


Key point

Whatever the middle ground is, it needs to affect where your emotions lie.


My idea

If a character dies then they are forced to become slightly more crazy or evil. If a character is lawful neutral and dies they become more evil. This would promote character change over time which their isn't a lot of and be a consequence for death because people are being forced to act different from how they wanted to be when they made a character. That includes those who decide to play a character that is already evil (explained in the Q/A). This would bring about much more dynamic RP and the word character would mean something. The majority of characters in DayZRP feel static. I have met few characters who have changed over time.

Example

If a character is lawful neutral and dies by the hand of another player they become more evil. The way this would make an impact is if a character is good in-game and spends a lot of time with close friends but dies then the character will be forced to act more negatively towards their friends. Because the character becomes the one thing they don't want to be they are therefore losing their past life, losing cherished memories. If the character has died a lot eventually they will become so evil that they do things to their closest friends. I feel this would be an emotionally impactful effect of death because then people would be forced to act the last way they want to towards their closest friends IC. It is also important to note most character's good friends are also the players OOC friends so they will feel impacted in that aspect too.

In the big picture this is perma-death over a long period of time because the character the player started with withers away to become something different and evil if they don't preserve their good nature.


Q/A

How will it be enforced?

The same way everything else is. This is DayZRP, according to rules people have to RP, have to be in character and have to act a certain way. All of it keeps people IC. If that can be done then people can just as easily act a certain way because of another rule that applies to a character dying. It would also apply to alt characters.


What if your character is already evil?

Take it to the next level of evil. Every evil character has a group of evil friends so turn on them. Soon the character will seclude their self from the world and have no one, which in the big picture is perma-death.

 

Can you become good again?

If I regulated rules I would say yes but only by avoiding death and violence. The more a character acts good and doesn't die the more they become good again. It is similar to evil RP. The more a character does bad things the more it should drive them to the "dark side." In other words the more bad they do, the more evil they become.

 

What if you die by a DayZ glitch or a zombie?

If a player is killed by a glitch or anything aside from the hand of another player they are not forced by the rule to change their character's behavior or alignment. This would also promote alignment change over time on the character page.

 

How does it make sense to become more evil or negative if you are killed by an evil character and you are good?

A character would become vengeful and angry that they were treated this way, the character obviously doesn't recognize it as being killed because well they would be alive but they can recognize it as a great act of disrespect and violence. It is really hard to make sense of death, this is a video game where people respawn, I am doing my best lol.

KEY POINTS

Promotes dynamic character change

Promotes dynamic RP

The death consequence can be reversed

Hopefully it is emotionally impactful

It applies to alt characters as well

In the big picture it is perma-death over a long period of time

 

Edited by Glitch

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Red    149

If we end up not having a perma rule, I wouldn't want my character to change due to a death.
Roleplay affects my character. The choices he makes and the people he ends up surrounding himself with will define who he becomes.
It wouldn't feel logical to me that a death (which isn't an actual death anyway since you can just play him again. It would more so be a K.O.) would change someone entirely. 

If someone is already evil and he dies enough to go batshit crazy than you'd have to be a stellar RP'er to make it believable. Sooner rather than later, we'd have a server full of crazy people just because they died a couple of times.

If anything, it would be more logical for the attacker/killer to change rather than the victim.

That's just my two cents.

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SweetJoe    283

Your proposing that the staff team dictates how we roleplay based upon how many deaths our characters have logged.

 

No. People who tell me how to characterize my character Don't exist, because you cant do this. 

 

Good try though.

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Glitch    15
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Red said:

-snip-

We may have a lot of crazy people or we may not. It's the apocalypse so it wouldn't be unrealistic and if that's not what people want then simply don't die by the hand of another player. It is all up to the individual if they die or not.

6 minutes ago, SweetJoe said:

-snip-

I don't know guys haha it feels like there is no solution to death. Time restrictions don't feel like RP they feel like a video game respawn timer.

The staff team doesn't dictate anything though, you decide how much you die. If you go into a fight knowing you could die that's on you.

Also again it is important to note that it would be reversible.

Edited by Glitch

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SweetJoe    283

 

oh really? people only die because they decide to...

 

I think we should take a survey on the reasons people die, and come up with proper statistics before we assume anything.

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Red    149
1 minute ago, Glitch said:

 

I don't know guys haha it feels like there is no solution to death. Time restrictions don't feel like RP they feel like a video game respawn timer.

The staff team doesn't dictate anything though, you decide how much you die. If you go into a fight knowing you could die that's on you.

Also again it is important to note that it would be reversible.

Yes but this rule you are proposing DOES dictate a personality change for your character. This should always be up to the player to decide. 

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SweetJoe    283
1 minute ago, Red said:

Yes but this rule you are proposing DOES dictate a personality change for your character. This should always be up to the player to decide. 

If Red and I agree on something...there must be something to it...

 

Your heart is in the right place, there is no easy solution that is both practical and pleases everyone.

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Glitch    15
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, SweetJoe said:

 

oh really? people only die because they decide to...

 

I think we should take a survey on the reasons people die, and come up with proper statistics before we assume anything.

Lets stay specific to death by another player. Any death by another player that is VALID is because of the actions carried about by he/she who died. Any other death wouldn't affect the character.

9 minutes ago, Red said:

Yes but this rule you are proposing DOES dictate a personality change for your character. This should always be up to the player to decide. 

I would like to think it is. If I go charging into a fight I would know that I could die and it would affect my character otherwise I would have no value for my life if I go into the fight knowing "oh if I die... meh it's whatever I only lose gear." It just doesn't appeal to RP.

The argument is parallel to perma-death. If you die your character is dead forever but that should be the player's choice. Yet it is the players choice because they decide to die or not, again specific to VALID deaths by the hand of a player.

Edited by Glitch

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Rose    143

Im with Red here, I will never support a rule that forces me to change my character like that. Let the player decide how a character reacts to injuries or ''bad'' acts not rules.

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Red    149
6 minutes ago, Glitch said:

I would like to think it is. If I go charging into a fight I would know that I could die and it would affect my character otherwise I would have no value for my life if I go into the fight knowing "oh if I die... meh it's whatever I only lose gear." It just doesn't appeal to RP.

The argument is parallel to perma-death. If you die your character is dead forever but that should be the player's choice. Yet it is the players choice because they decide to die or not, again specific to VALID deaths by the hand of a player.

If we catch wind that a player charges into a fight that he/she would know he/she would lose than it would be NVFL either way and that's a rule break on itself which is punishable by our current ruleset.

I stand by my point that a personality change after a knock out (because that's what a death is right now) doesn't seem logical from an RP perspective.
 

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Glitch    15
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Red said:

-snip-

21 minutes ago, SweetJoe said:

-snip-

11 minutes ago, Rose said:

-snip-

Everyone brings up good points here. I too don't want my character to be changed by rules but I really don't like playing without some sort of universal death punishment. I know I can perma if I choose to but if it were enforced or at least something to make death matter more that isn't technical or mechanical and matters to everyone I would like to see it.

I tried to find a work around but it feels like this thread is going down in flames haha, gave it shot, thanks for outside perspectives from those who replied. Hopefully one day we will find what the people want.

Edited by Glitch

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Red    149

Don't worry @Glitch. Suggestions to make the community better are always appreciated. We'll find a suitable solution eventually!

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dankusmemeus    22

How can it be enforced? Because if i die i'm not going to act crazy, if anything having a fresh life would reset your mental state, i do not like the idea, i wish people would just drop the perma-death stuff, if you want to be able to get perma death then find another community, that's how i see it atleast, no disrespect to anyone though.

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Idole    180

I don't know if I like this idea every time someone dies they go evil or crazy not really for me. With me I change through rp my character started off as a naïve good and talkative didn't really know how to shoot a gun and the more time went on and the more she was betrayed and the more evil acts committed against her she changed to someone who wouldn't take changes and would fight and even committed the same acts that happened to her but she still had some morals. It is best to leave it to rp to change through the game you don't want a system or someone telling you how  you should rp that should be left to the player who controls their character. You have an idea of who you want to play as and go from their a lot of people would not like to be told ok you died you have to play evil or crazy what if their character was good by the time a week passed everyone would be crazy or evil.

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Glitch    15
25 minutes ago, Idole said:

I don't know if I like this idea every time someone dies they go evil or crazy not really for me. With me I change through rp my character started off as a naïve good and talkative didn't really know how to shoot a gun and the more time went on and the more she was betrayed and the more evil acts committed against her she changed to someone who wouldn't take changes and would fight and even committed the same acts that happened to her but she still had some morals. It is best to leave it to rp to change through the game you don't want a system or someone telling you how  you should rp that should be left to the player who controls their character. You have an idea of who you want to play as and go from their a lot of people would not like to be told ok you died you have to play evil or crazy what if their character was good by the time a week passed everyone would be crazy or evil.

I don't like it either haha. I was just trying to propose a workaround because even though perma-death is the most realistic people prefer to keep things unrealistic and come back from the dead. If people are too attached to characters to follow realism then the quality of RP is taken down a level, if someone is that attached they can simply avoid a VALID death by another player.

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Idole    180

I do understand the idea you were trying to put forward its just others would abuse the hell out of it, its just the way some players are, they wouldn't do it for realism they would do it out of spit and hunt down people they don't like usually ones who would be attached to their characters and are serious about rp.

Saying that players who are attached to their characters would lower the level of rp is wrong they are usually the ones you get good rp from its the players who make throw away characters that don't do realism.  

I like realism I do but I do have to be logical about it this is a game just think about this scenario what is the difference from people who have been eaten, beaten to death and fire squad execution to people who died batteling other players is every person who pvp going to have to perm their character because they died on a field of battle because realistically they would die or suffer grevious wounds and I don't see it happening anytime soon but that is realism.

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Glitch    15
37 minutes ago, Idole said:

I do understand the idea you were trying to put forward its just others would abuse the hell out of it, its just the way some players are, they wouldn't do it for realism they would do it out of spit and hunt down people they don't like usually ones who would be attached to their characters and are serious about rp.

Saying that players who are attached to their characters would lower the level of rp is wrong they are usually the ones you get good rp from its the players who make throw away characters that don't do realism.  

I like realism I do but I do have to be logical about it this is a game just think about this scenario what is the difference from people who have been eaten, beaten to death and fire squad execution to people who died batteling other players is every person who pvp going to have to perm their character because they died on a field of battle because realistically they would die or suffer grevious wounds and I don't see it happening anytime soon but that is realism.

My words have been misinterpreted. I don't by any means think that what you refer to as attachment to a character decreases the quality of RP. I agree with you 100% that those who are "attached" take the time to master their character and it does bring about good RP. But I hope attachment is being used in the same sense between the two of us. Someone who puts time into their character I would consider dedicated.

When I say attachment I think of someone who has made one character and has built a reputation and refuses and hates the idea of losing that reputation, having to regain it or having to write a new backstory for a new character.

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Static    231

I think every character should be perma-killed at the start.  Tactical nuke over South Zagoria to stop the spread of disease.  Flawless logic.

 

In all seriousness, I can only echo other's thoughts on this.  Changing a character's personality into an ever steeper slide into evil is a surefire way to kill people's desire for RP.

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Glitch    15
4 minutes ago, Static said:

I think every character should be perma-killed at the start.  Tactical nuke over South Zagoria to stop the spread of disease.  Flawless logic.

 

In all seriousness, I can only echo other's thoughts on this.  Changing a character's personality into an ever steeper slide into evil is a surefire way to kill people's desire for RP.

I couldn't agree more, I want to be able to control how my character turns out but I am digging through a paper shredder piecing together words at this point as I feel there needs to be at least something, some sort of consequence for death to make it feel like it matters. Something that's not technical like a server tempban something that truly is impactful but it can't be perma-death because that wont happen.

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