Jump to content
Server time: 2017-08-20, 15:22

Sign in to follow this  
Red

Meeting both sides. Perma/Dynamic

Recommended Posts

Red    144

Hey guys,

The last suggestions got me thinking about a possible solution to both problems. Cut me some slack though as I am just spitballing at the moment and wanted to write this down to keep the ball rolling.

Permadeath:

Odds are small that people will want to play along with this rules. So even though I'd really like to see a rule like this implemented, I feel that people will end up complaining. They are attached to a character. It's understandable.

Dynamic:

There have been some issues with this rule as well as it's not being used as it was intended.

Possible Solution:

When you die, you will not be allowed to play that character for an X amount of time. (let's say a week.) This way you won't lose the character you are attached to. You will however be forced to play an alt for the time being. Remove the dynamic rule for main characters who are in an official group and disable alts the ability to join official groups. Allow them only to play in a dynamic. This will still make it possible for solo players to be part of a dynamic and it will hopefully stimulate alt players to tag along with other players and experience different RP styles/groups other than their own. You'll get a more diverse RP experience. This will also make players value the lives of their main characters whole lot more. There will be a lot more at stake during a firefight and thus they will occur a lot less frequent. People might run more from fights etc.

Q: "People can abuse this too and troll on alt for a week"
A: "People are required to make a background story for said alt as well. Just as the main character. Let's see how many times people would want to go through that ordeal."

Q: "What happens if the alt dies?"
A: "Rinse and repeat."

Q: "What stops a player from tagging along with the group that the main character belongs to?"
A: "They could tag along, but they cannot share KOS rights as they would not be allowed to join said group."

Q: "How can we monitor this?"
A: "I don't know if we can link a players UUID to a character page. When he dies, the timer kicks in? Or maybe create a script that triggers upon reading the message of: First name, last name dies of wound etc. I'm just the suggestion maker here really, The game side of it will have to be looked into"

Q: "How can we enforce this?"
A: "I don't know yet. I am more than open to suggestions regarding that. I haven't played with the console ever since I left as an admin so I'm not sure if things have changed."

Q:"What if I want to play my alt instead of my main for a bit?"
A: "Go ahead. But If you decide to do so, you will also have to deal with the X amount of time cooldown."

Q: "The issue with the script reading logs, is what happens if its a death due to a rulebreak? or a glitch as DayZ is still buggy as all hell."
A: "We will have to have a manual override."

 

Feel free to leave your thoughts. This is heavy work in progress but I wanted to share it none the less in hopes of coming towards a solution which will satisfiy the majority of the community.

Much love,

Red

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mexi    1033

Link the server to the users ID and make sure that the character that is registered to the forum is the one that goes in game and limit changes on said character to 24-48 hours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rose    142

The issue with the script reading logs, is what happens if its a death due to a rulebreak? or a glitch as DayZ is still buggy as all hell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Red    144
Just now, Rose said:

The issue with the script reading logs, is what happens if its a death due to a rulebreak? or a glitch as DayZ is still buggy as all hell.

There is always a manual override for that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rolle    2451
2 minutes ago, Red said:

When you die, you will not be allowed to play that character for an X amount of time. (let's say a week.)

That's a pretty hefty punishment for dying, considering people didn't like my "get kicked from the server for 5 minutes" idea, this won't go through :D

 

3 minutes ago, Red said:

Remove the dynamic rule for main characters who are in an official group and disable alts the ability to join official groups. Allow them only to play in a dynamic.

Characters in official groups do not need dynamic group rule, they already share kill rights, at all times. Unfortunately with the way things work on the website, we can't assign individual characters to groups. The whole account is connected to a group. We won't be able to track manually which characters of a person in the group are members of the group.

Anyhow either I am missing something from this suggestion or this will not change anything compared to how it is now besides piss people off with a week long tempban on individual characters?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phoenix    1055

Not a week. Please. For the love of god. If you die, don't play the character for a day or so. I could live with that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Red    144
2 minutes ago, Rolle said:

That's a pretty hefty punishment for dying, considering people didn't like my "get kicked from the server for 5 minutes" idea, this won't go through :D

 

Characters in official groups do not need dynamic group rule, they already share kill rights, at all times. Unfortunately with the way things work on the website, we can't assign individual characters to groups. The whole account is connected to a group. We won't be able to track manually which characters of a person in the group are members of the group.

Anyhow either I am missing something from this suggestion or this will not change anything compared to how it is now besides piss people off with a week long tempban on individual characters?

As I gather from the comments in the other threads, I get the impression that perhaps people would be more open to the idea of missing their character, IF it wasn't permanent. The fact that the 5 minute rule was disliked was because of the fact that they couldn't play. In this situation however, once it's set up for everyone. People CAN just play. The only thing they'd have to do is change their character name and they can log right back in.

As far as characters in official groups not needing dynamic, you're right. But it has happened that characters from official groups, drifted off from their core group and paired up with dynamics. They can't do that anymore.  Drifter in question would have the initiate by himself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Static    231

I still think a graduated perma-system would be more popular.  Like @Rolle and @Phoenix said, one week for one death would be too punitive.  If this were introduced (and there are a lot of weird dots to connect), something like 1 day would suffice.    I don't want to hijack your thread with my idea, though.  So I think I may just make my own thread on the topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Red    144
4 minutes ago, Phoenix said:

Not a week. Please. For the love of god. If you die, don't play the character for a day or so. I could live with that.

1 minute ago, Static said:

I still think a graduated perma-system would be more popular.  Like @Rolle and @Phoenix said, one week for one death would be too punitive.  If this were introduced (and there are a lot of weird dots to connect), something like 1 day would suffice.    I don't want to hijack your thread with my idea, though.  So I think I may just make my own thread on the topic.

 

 

I said an X amount. READ!!! lol :P but the timer has to be something that stimulates people to think before they act. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phoenix    1055
Just now, Red said:

I said an X amount. READ!!! lol but the timer has to be something that stimulates people to think before they act. 

I can agree that there should be something that isn't permadeathing your character or having to wait for a week if you die.
I can find a middle ground here, hopefully we will have more characters value their characters lives through firefights more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Static    231

The big problem I see is many people can't be bothered to create a character page for their primary (although that will be changed).  I can't see them willing to create an alt or two to run on as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Red    144
Just now, Phoenix said:

I can agree that there should be something that isn't permadeathing your character or having to wait for a week if you die.
I can find a middle ground here, hopefully we will have more characters value their characters lives through firefights more.

Exactly. I've seen it all too often that people run into firefights, because why not!? If I die, i can just respawn and gear up. That action having a more heftier concequence could hopefully make people be more inclined to say "Well, I better not pick this to be my fight. I'll wait till odds are more in my favor"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phoenix    1055
Just now, Red said:

Exactly. I've seen it all too often that people run into firefights, because why not!? If I die, i can just respawn and gear up. That action having a more heftier concequence could hopefully make people be more inclined to say "Well, I better not pick this to be my fight. I'll wait till odds are more in my favor"

That's something I hadn't even thought of. I was just getting tired of the constant meaningless firefights.
I love banditry, but I'd rather RP than firefight tbh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rolle    2451
Just now, Red said:

The fact that the 5 minute rule was disliked was because of the fact that they couldn't play. In this situation however, once it's set up for everyone. People CAN just play. The only thing they'd have to do is change their character name and they can log right back in.

I think it was disliked because they were kicked from the server upon death and would have to re-queue if it was full. Switching to a different character also requires leaving the server, so I imagine people won't like that suggestion either.

 

1 minute ago, Red said:

But it has happened that characters from official groups, drifted off from their core group and paired up with dynamics. They can't do that anymore.  Drifter in question would have the initiate by himself.

The biggest problems with dynamic group rights and the reason they are being removed are people playing in groups that cannot be controlled or checked (all those bad robberies by randoms) and groups that play hostile on alts to get around consequences to their group or main characters, while still causing harm to their enemies. As far as I can see, your suggestion does not help with either of these things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Red    144
15 minutes ago, Rolle said:

I think it was disliked because they were kicked from the server upon death and would have to re-queue if it was full. Switching to a different character also requires leaving the server, so I imagine people won't like that suggestion either.

Servers aren't often full nowadays. Perhaps now it would not be as much of an issue. We also have S2 available still If I saw that correctly. So the action itself (nowdays) should not take more than two minutes. Should server be full, we could use S2 again. For the alt, it shouldn't matter that much as he wouldn't immediately be able to RP with his main characters group anyway.

 

15 minutes ago, Rolle said:

The biggest problems with dynamic group rights and the reason they are being removed are people playing in groups that cannot be controlled or checked (all those bad robberies by randoms) and groups that play hostile on alts to get around consequences to their group or main characters, while still causing harm to their enemies. As far as I can see, your suggestion does not help with either of these things.

Fair arguement, but that's why I suggested a mandatory character background page for any character that you wish to play IG. I don't think we can ever fully stop alts from doing what you mentioned above. We can however make the effort less worthwile. Mandatory character page that you suggested in your thread is already going to hopefully make players think more about their character plus it could potentially be a way to monitor solo players / alt players better. People will also frequent the forums more if they have to create backstories for alts ;)

As I said though, It's spitballing and a random thought that came up to me whilst reading through these threads and enjoying the sweet ocean smell in Italy. Even if this doesn't go anywhere, It's still hopefully going to add up towards a step in the right direction!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
isocade    90

I like this idea. It helps battle against NVFL and makes people actually think out their actions before they do them, putting a survivor mentality on them.

There'll always be people who won't care and disregard because they're not here for roleplay despite what they claim.

Mandatory character pages are also a good idea, whoever's idea it was originally- Kudos.

I might sound biased but I'd rather the rules and systems be set in favor of a more hardcore roleplayer sense where things are realistic but not as heavily enforced rather than a more casual sense in which things may not be as realistic but heavily enforced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Buddy    846
Posted (edited)

Oh my

I am all about being receptive to new ideas and suggestions; I love them! However whenever a "death cool down timer" is brought up in discussion I have one massive beef with that - This is DAYZ were talking about. 

I died last month when i STEPPED ON A CHICKEN.

I can fully get behind legitimate death cool downs from firefights or environmental kills via infected / wolves ect.. but we also have to consider the buggy aspect of the game where it will kill you because it just damn well feels like it. Between that and say an invalid kill / KOS... I myself would be extremely put off if I was forced to wait out a timer of ANY duration for something that was entirely beyond my control. 

Just my two cents.

EDIT:// If there was a way in server tools for logs to decipher glitched deaths and the like, I could get more behind this. However there would still be the aspect of being wrongfully killed by another player; something that staff would have to personally investigate each and every time. That in itself would be a nightmare.

Edited by Buddy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SweetJoe    280

...yeah, you think people don't play enough now? wait until they die twice in one week.  Guess we all need 12 characters and profiles eh? If your aim is to drive your player base from the servers to the website so you can generate ad money, than it would work in the short term. 

 

Seems restrictive to me, and it seems that we are now demanded to be on the forums more often and in game less.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chief    597

Good effort, and just like many similar ideas associated with characters and permadeath/attempting to force a status on people due to a death is good to an extent. With a bit more refinement you could have a valid system that (most) people would be ok with.

I think this is good, although some points el presidente makes are very true. I don't have much more to add. People who have had similar suggestions lately like @Static and also @Joffrey I am sure would have something that maybe would help you. Keep it up red! And don't delete any more group CP's on accident anytime soon ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Red    144
1 minute ago, Chief said:

And don't delete any more group CP's on accident anytime soon ;)

I cannot promise anything. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Static    231
18 hours ago, Red said:

I said an X amount. READ!!! lol :P but the timer has to be something that stimulates people to think before they act. 

18 hours ago, Red said:

Servers aren't often full nowadays. Perhaps now it would not be as much of an issue. We also have S2 available still If I saw that correctly. So the action itself (nowdays) should not take more than two minutes. Should server be full, we could use S2 again. For the alt, it shouldn't matter that much as he wouldn't immediately be able to RP with his main characters group anyway.

Say it's two or three days.  That seems a bit more reasonable.  However, with what looks to be a huge influx of people coming back for the lore wipe, they'll be re-queuing every death.  If we get mod/dev tools in the next update, I can see us adding in the ability to change your name after a death to our alt character when you respawn, maybe.  I still see the issue of how to enforce this, because it seems like the player would have to manually change their active character on the website after each death, and I don't know how you would script the death to link only to the character and not to the SteamID.

18 hours ago, Red said:

Fair arguement, but that's why I suggested a mandatory character background page for any character that you wish to play IG. I don't think we can ever fully stop alts from doing what you mentioned above. We can however make the effort less worthwile. Mandatory character page that you suggested in your thread is already going to hopefully make players think more about their character plus it could potentially be a way to monitor solo players / alt players better. People will also frequent the forums more if they have to create backstories for alts ;)

I would like to see required backstories for all characters.  I expect to see a completed character page requirement once the wipe hits.

I would say that alts cannot have any group or faction affiliation whatsoever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DanielsTV    6

No. No half way, implement a perma rule or don't. Either way, I think we should have characters be approved to avoid cookie cutters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phoenix    1055
42 minutes ago, DanielsTV said:

No. No half way, implement a perma rule or don't. Either way, I think we should have characters be approved to avoid cookie cutters.

Character be approved? That's a meme and a half :D 
We don't even have group approval at the moment lmfao. 
I think we shouldn't have to have our characters approved tbh. Never been a thing b4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DanielsTV    6
1 minute ago, Phoenix said:

Character be approved? That's a meme and a half :D 
We don't even have group approval at the moment lmfao. 
I think we shouldn't have to have our characters approved tbh. Never been a thing b4

I'm not saying we need it, but forcing people to not play their characters for a week is just dumb and would require character approval.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×