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Law o7

Ban Amnesty

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Law o7    50

595c0f14e0d72_banamnesty.png.ce1910500e4b05b4d179f22b0779c239.png

This has possibly been said before but I personally couldn't find a thread for it. I honestly believe that with the lore wipe coming up it's time to give old players a chance to come back. I understand there's a lot of arguments against it like, "If they want to come back they can make an appeal" or "Why would we want rule breakers back in the community", but as someone who has multiple friends who got permma'd while never being banned myself I can say that some people that get permma'd really aren't that detrimental to the server. You got involved in the wrong situations at the wrong time and suddenly you're permenantly removed from the community. Now I'm not saying that everyone who's ever been banned should be brought back but I do think that some older bans should possibly be lifted and I think a little more leniency should be given to people making appeals to come back. After all this is a gaming community not a prison what's wrong with giving some people second chances? Plus, you can always keep unbanned players on a tight leash for a few months just to make sure if they haven't changed that they're taken care of. On another note the player base has been sorely lacking recently. Assumedly when .63 launches there will be a massive flood of new players and old players coming back, but that could take another year at least. It's the middle of summer vacation the server should be at its peak right now. I'm always astounded by the number of names I see in old forum posts or when browsing people's accounts that are perma-banned and theoretically removing those old bans could boost the numbers a bit at least until the new update comes.

TL;DR:

Spoiler

 

Don't just remove ban points, but also expire very old perma-bans and give more leniency for perma ban appeals.


 

PROS:

Spoiler

 

Increased player base, give people second chances, fresh start as a community.


 

CONS:

Spoiler

Risk reintroducing toxic players.

 

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I'd vote for removing permanent ban from the already perma'd players, but with a twist:

They'll be on last warning for maybe a few weeks or months, so they can learn how to behave again. They won't be toxic under said consequences, and the few who will be, can be easily cleansed from the community in a matter of minutes.

 

Either that, or just leave it as it is. I'm fine with both.

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Majoo    642

I don't think any of the permanent bans should be lifted, as there is no reason to just go and be like "oh hey he's been gone for long let's unban him/her" it doesn't make much sense to just remove someones punishment just because we are having a lore wipe in the community.

But what I could get behind is giving some of those permabanned people more leniency while looking over their ban appeals if they did not make one yet, and in case they did and got denied while back then give them chance to make 1 more as i said with more leniency if their ban is not in the reason of where they "fucked up too much" to get removed from the community.

I personally think some people deserve second chance but it all depends on what is the reason of them getting banned.

But NO definitely disagree with just lifting all the bans just like that out of nowhere only because of lore wipe and some changes around here.

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Stradic    252

I've had some mates end up getting perma banned and while it would be great to RP with them again I am hesitant on this.

My reason being is that Rolle did something like this recently in giving people another chance with many of them finding themselves getting banned yet again.

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Hollows    410

+1 To this. My boy Apollo had a rough patch around this time last year, but he legitimately would be a good fit. He's fixed his behavior and turned himself around. I feel that we should allow amnesty to certain perm'ed players, but not all for obvious reasons. Depending on how they went out, of course. Could be some application system people have to file and the Admins can use their red magic to decide if they're in a position to be given another chance. 

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Shadows    996

It should be case-by-case imo. Several of my boys got perm'd for stupid shit (not counting March 1st) and weren't even considered "toxic." But yeah, I'm not a fan of permanent bans being non-appealable like how it is now.

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Dusty    1032

Honestly, I think amnesty would be good again. We did it back in 2016 with .60, and it worked out alright. If we did it again, I think it would bring back a lot of people that know what they're doing. 

That being said, a lot of the people that tendied in march have made alt accounts and have mass KOSed on those alt accounts. If we were to have amnesty again, we would have to be selective. And with the people we would let back in, I think their posts should be moderated (staff has to approve what they're posting before its public). They should also be placed on final warning, as per usual, and would have to be active and positive in the community.

There could be some really good Pro's with doing this, like an increase in playerbase, an increase in experienced players, and more people in the community in general. 

There could also be some terrible Cons. For example, some or all of the former players tendie all over again, or become negative presences in the community. I think these two Cons that I mentioned are serious possibilities, and I think based on what happened the last time we allowed people back into the community, Rolle likely won't ever attempt amnesty again.

Again, I would love it if certain people came back, but it's very likely a lot of them would just tendie again, either immediately after coming back, or after waiting a while to do it. 

I know a lot of people regretted getting permed after they did it, and it'd be nice to have them back, but I don't think it's likely to happen. Even if we did let people back, i think waiting until beta hits would be a better time to try it.

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Beni    678
Posted (edited)

I'd love to see all my old boys come back, but I doubt it'd happen mate... Around 110 people got banned in the " Chicken Tendi " war... A lot of these people would deserve a second chance, but it wouldn't happen I don't think... 

People such as Apollo deserve a second Third... (Cheers @Joffrey)  chance.... Honestly. 

If this was to happen...

19 hours ago, Shadows said:

It should be case-by-case 


For example, my boy Rory a few times @'d some people calling them the N Word.... And said it a few times.... That to me... Is about 10 points max... It wouldn't of been a permanent ban if he wouldn't of done it during " The War ". Rory is a mate of mine granted, but even if he wasn't.... It still wasn't that bad. At all.

 

But yeah, I think it should be case by case... But let's be honest,

A lot of the boys won't come back.

o7 you fallen lads. I miss ya. 

Edited by Beni

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Buddy    833

Honestly; I feel it takes a great deal of effort of ignorance to the community and server rules to have earned ones' self a permanent removal from this place. A large portion of forum warnings and points issued tend to be passive aggressive jabs or straight up flaming where people gamble how many more points they can safely take; then sit quietly for a while until they expire. On a side note and I know that this was not initially included in your thread, but I'm fairly certain and correct me if i'm wrong; Rolle stated at some point he was firmly against allowing people from "Dick Nugget Day" to return to the community at all.

I'd agree that perhaps older removals who were once denied could be allowed another chance to appeal and have staff re-evaluate their arguments for returning. However I do not think it wise to just lift them all in good faith for the sake of a fresh start. It is as you so perfectly put, "Risk reintroducing toxic players." Are there some extenuating circumstances that deserve a second look? Of course, i'm sure there are. But IF players are given another chance then they should all equally have to go through the same appeal process to earn their way back in.

I'll get plenty of hate for this post and that's fine. I'd rather have a semi-populated community of non-toxic members than an overflowing one with uncontrollable chaos that is flaming, slander and passive aggressive jabs. Quality over quantity.

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Beni    678
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Buddy said:

I'd rather have a semi-populated community of non-toxic members.

Bro I don't know what community you're playing in, but that isn't DayZRP... Period. 

Some lads here are more toxic than these fucking things...

Toxic_Waste_candy.png

The community has good lads, and total wankers mate... You just gotta live with em Buddy my mate. 

 

Edited by Beni

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Buddy    833
1 minute ago, Beni said:

Bro I don't know what community you're playing in, but that isn't DayZRP... Period. 

Some lads here are more toxic than these fucking things...

Toxic_Waste_candy.png

 

And I question every day how and why they are still here :ph34r:

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Charlie    116
Posted (edited)

I disagree with permanent bans... Maybe because I have experienced one my self. People make mistakes.

There are a lot of people who have been banned from the community for what I say are minor offences. I think my case was one of them, but I was lucky enough to be able to come back, I mean I got 30 points for calling my self a crusty sock... In a OOC manner  on team speak to a member of staff as a joke, that resulted in a instant perm. Took a month before my appeal got answered. 

But, even though I disagree with permanent bans. In some cases they are needed for certain toxic players. And some cases I completely agree with. But a lot of other cases... No offence but it looks like to me some staff has banned players previous just because "they can". And its a far to difficult and long process of getting unbanned after a staff member has made everyone else aware of their authority by making an example out of you, its just what I felt when I got banned.

So yes for the lore wipe, I think Permed players should be given a second chance and hey... if they go back to their old tricks. they will end back up on that permed list so whats the real harm? its expanding our player base. 

Edited by C-J

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Rose    141

I say case by case basis only. Look at why a lot of these people got banned and go from there then keep them on final for a extended period of time and make them prove they can actually follow the rules this time. But just lifting them all god no that would let the same people who decided to go on KOS sprees and every other shitty thing they did right back in and sure they would get banned again for it but that wont create a magic rewind button that undos the kos sprees and other crap they decide to do just to ruin someone elses enjoyment.

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Idole    176

I don't think the permanent bans should be lifted I believe if they got themselves banned then they should appeal it. i don't think just because we are getting a new lore is reason enough to lift their bans. Yes alot of them made mistakes and I believe in second chances so if they have already made an appeal I would give it a second look.

Lifting all the bans will risk toxic players back into the community and risk another mass KOS or chicken tendie.

Apart from that some bans are jabs at others and I would give them a second chance by looking at what got them banned, put them on final warning and watch them to make sure they aren't causing trouble OOC and IC. But i would not lift them all selective onces only, ones who are proved aren't toxic and understand what they have done wrong.

 

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Pussy    311
Posted (edited)

The only true opinion I have on this is that it's going to be a huge undertaking for the staff team in my opinion, and honestly I think it's going to be a huge clusterfuck. You're going to get people who are eligible for their bans to be lifted, and then others who may have more severe bans that are ineligible based off of staff discretion. 

I know from my time in staff that there were some people not a part of "dick nugget day" that sure as shit shouldn't get a second chance in the community due to horrific past behaviour. Problem with this, is that if that the staff team deems some people ineligible for the pardon, do they have to go way back into the bans and investigate the reasons why they should remain banned? Would they have to re-ban those individuals one by one? If that's the case, that could end up being a shitload of work.

I get why they're doing it, don't get me wrong. While I think that some people deserve to not be permabanned, I'm also unwavering when I say that some people should not have a second chance. The amount of work you have to put into getting a 100% warning level can be quite extensive in most cases  -- not all, but most.

I think the system would be better if you had to apply to have your permaban revoked. Not so much a ban appeal, but maybe a thread similar to the staff applications thread, where the admins could review the "apps" and look through past behaviour and past bans. This way it narrows down the people who wish enough to be here and put in the effort for their bans to be revoked. I say this because I'm sure you don't wanna unban the guys who decided to sexually harrass someone in game, or the guys who were racist pricks on the forums.

Some people should just stay banned... IMO. 

Edited by Pussy

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Chaostica    143

Permanent bans, while harsh are the communities only recourse when it comes to dealing with some extremely toxic, above the rules, thinking on behalf of some of those who were removed. Do I think all those people deserved their bans? Probably not all, which is why so far the only reasonable thing to do would be as @Rose suggested and do a case by case with each.

Permanent bans have been removed before, those returning are grateful for awhile until they feel comfortable again and a high percentage once again find themselves removed. Even then however, the community has to suffer their presence until then causing more salt and ooc hate. Is it worth the risk to do a blanket removal and have those who are finally returning that are wonderful RPer's leave again finding once again the place unbearable? 

Since the removal of some I have seen so many old faces return that have been long missed. I have seen the RP quality slowly improving. I have NOT seen any suffering in population on the server, in fact I have noted they are busier then usual as many would not log in with the presence of some of old ones already on them. Case by case, it's the only way, not a complete blanket removal, it would just send those returning back and server pop will nose dive again.

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Skinner    431

I wouldn't be here if it weren't for the amnesty wave of 2016. If you think everyone who has been perma'd is a toxic scumbag you are completely wrong. Are there some who would come back and immediately stir shit? Sure, of course, there are always a few bad ones in every bunch. However, I agree with @Jetwells (something I don't often do lol) that if the unusual action of granting amnesty were to be taken then the unusual precaution of doing so with the stipulation of a 1 year final warning would be a great compromise. People who are willing to come back for the right reasons will take advantage of the opportunity, and those who just want to have one last laugh will quickly find themselves re-banned and we'll just keep right on living our lives.

I like the idea, I think with some thought and consideration it can be done right. Great suggestion.

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Joules    226

I guess I'll toss my own personal opinion into the hat.

I'm very conflicted by the concept of letting back in people who were permed. I have plenty of people I've called friends meet their ends with a cross through their names and I know I'd love to see 'em back. Thinking unbiased however, I can not see myself wanting the majority of people who've been permed back into the community. They were permed for a reason, and if we were to just let everyone back into the community, sure we would have a larger player base, but at what cost?

If we were to consider this option, the only thing I can say is 1. Have everyone let back in on a 1 active year final warning. 2. No one banned during the "dicken tendie" (thanks oyface for this charming play on words) wave, nor those personally banned by Rolle should be let back in. Most people too toxic to return will have slipped up at some point during a year of activity. How that year is measured would be completely up to staff.

At the end of the day, it's far easier to just keep the door shut on those who were permed, and just let them make an appeal. Maybe we can have some leniency, but not amnesty. 

  

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JAMMIELAD    143

To be honest, if you're permabanned you stay permabanned. I've had mates who jumped the fence during the Tendie Incident of March 2017 and while I wouldn't mind RP'ing with them, they know what they were doing when they done it, same as everyone else who got perm'd.

IF there was an amnesty, serious consideration must be done for people who want to come back. But we know deep down that a few people would come back, KOS spree and get perm'd again. So what's the point?

Granted, servers have stagnated a bit compared to when I joined last August, RP can be a bit weak but it depends on who you run with and who you find but it doesn't mean we should give a pass to those who have willingly put themselves who were good RP'ers, in the ban hammer's way. 

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Undead    233

I of course having many friends banned would like the idea, but yes I think the most realistic thing would be a 1 year final.

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Mexi    1014

Be selective with who is let back and put them on a 6 month final, double what it would usually be and isn't over the top.

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Naz    20
17 minutes ago, Mexi said:

Be selective with who is let back and put them on a 6 month final, double what it would usually be and isn't over the top.

I agree with this. One year final seems a bit much.

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Zero    276
Posted (edited)

-Snip-

Edited by Zero

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ExoticRainbow    186
21 minutes ago, Mexi said:

 

Be selective with who is let back and put them on a 6 month final, double what it would usually be and isn't over the top.

 

^This sounds like the best solution^

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