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Roland

Safe zone discussion

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The problem is, Bandits are upset they cant go around in their group of 15+ and rob people who are on their own and then report them for nvfl or badrp when they try to fight back, using the same excuse as, robberies are legit. When its just to re-gear dead friends who died in a firefight, and you want them to firefight again with you faster. Nothing to do with it killing the community, not when the community is pretty much dead because people are tired of this groups being baity, ruleplaying, pvpers. My way, Id of banned em all months ago.

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42 minutes ago, Jetwells said:

The problem is, Bandits are upset they cant go around in their group of 15+ and rob people who are on their own and then report them for nvfl or badrp when they try to fight back, using the same excuse as, robberies are legit. When its just to re-gear dead friends who died in a firefight, and you want them to firefight again with you faster. Nothing to do with it killing the community, not when the community is pretty much dead because people are tired of this groups being baity, ruleplaying, pvpers. My way, Id of banned em all months ago.

I don't understand what this has to do with the discussion? If you want to throw shade at a part of the community, you can do it in status updates which you already do plenty so I'm not sure why you needed to post this here. 

Let's stay on topic now.

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How about changing the place of the  safezone like once a month? I understad the issue with the borders but still, there is many building complexes etc.

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1 hour ago, Jetwells said:

The problem is, Bandits are upset they cant go around in their group of 15+ and rob people who are on their own and then report them for nvfl or badrp when they try to fight back, using the same excuse as, robberies are legit. When its just to re-gear dead friends who died in a firefight, and you want them to firefight again with you faster. Nothing to do with it killing the community, not when the community is pretty much dead because people are tired of this groups being baity, ruleplaying, pvpers. My way, Id of banned em all months ago.

Shit like this is why people cringe when they see our community

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41 minutes ago, Nihoolious said:

I don't understand what this has to do with the discussion? If you want to throw shade at a part of the community, you can do it in status updates which you already do plenty so I'm not sure why you needed to post this here. 

Let's stay on topic now.

It is on topic, Its my opinion on why this is being frowned on by a select portion of the community. Nothing to do with the safe zone being a bad idea for people who want to have their peaceful role-play. More than 50% of the server tends to be some form of hostile role-player. Is this not enough people to role-play with or is it the pacifists that are specifically targeted? I gave a more elaborate point but that was overlooked. Bandits can get their preferred style of role-play with anybody they meet. Camp-fire rpers cannot. Not everyone has hours to spend in-game, and when you don't get the rp you want in the time you spend here over the hours you do manage to get, you loose interest. Do you want the community to be filled with just bandit rpers? Or do you want to get a wide diverse and varied style across all boards. Because at the moment, its just that, people having to segregate themselves due to the constant basis of pointless robberies or captures. Gone are the days when hostile rp could be two groups giving beef without having to resort into a initiation that always leads to a gunfight due to us meant to be role-playing. Not re-spawning. No-one has a fear of death due to the fact you can do exactly as i stated, re-spawn and get your friends to carry your gear to you. And then nothing ever happened. You die 100 times and act as-if nothing happened. 

It selfish to not allow other people to role-play how they desire. Just because one side is always having fun, doesn't mean the other is. I'm part of this bandit community so I don't see how i could be throwing shade at any part when the part i see as being the problem at the moment, is something i'm classed as being a part of. Maybe you don't like my bluntness, But it is how it is. The safe zone is a good idea for the reasons stated above, it gives people the chance to experience the role-play they come for and to enjoy their time here. It needs to be fleshed out sure, But to say it is going to kill bandit role-play and create a pve enviroment is throwing shade at a part of the community itself. The problem is people cant accept other peoples roleplay desires. Do we want to keep people in the community or push them away? 

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Honestly, I enjoyed it in the Mod. I'll enjoy it in Standalone. I say give it a trial run, and if it flops then oh well.

I'm not sure what I think about the ghosting rule, though. It's technically avoiding RP to enter and leave a settlement when people are camping it to rob or harass people on the outside. That's the price to pay for trying to leave or go to safety. Either go in numbers or don't go at all.

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9 minutes ago, Jetwells said:

It is on topic, Its my opinion on why this is being frowned on by a select portion of the community. Nothing to do with the safe zone being a bad idea for people who want to have their peaceful role-play. More than 50% of the server tends to be some form of hostile role-player. Is this not enough people to role-play with or is it the pacifists that are specifically targeted? I gave a more elaborate point but that was overlooked. Bandits can get their preferred style of role-play with anybody they meet. Camp-fire rpers cannot. Not everyone has hours to spend in-game, and when you don't get the rp you want in the time you spend here over the hours you do manage to get, you loose interest. Do you want the community to be filled with just bandit rpers? Or do you want to get a wide diverse and varied style across all boards. Because at the moment, its just that, people having to segregate themselves due to the constant basis of pointless robberies or captures. Gone are the days when hostile rp could be two groups giving beef without having to resort into a initiation that always leads to a gunfight due to us meant to be role-playing. Not re-spawning. No-one has a fear of death due to the fact you can do exactly as i stated, re-spawn and get your friends to carry your gear to you. And then nothing ever happened. You die 100 times and act as-if nothing happened. 

It selfish to not allow other people to role-play how they desire. Just because one side is always having fun, doesn't mean the other is. I'm part of this bandit community so I don't see how i could be throwing shade at any part when the part i see as being the problem at the moment, is something i'm classed as being a part of. Maybe you don't like my bluntness, But it is how it is. The safe zone is a good idea for the reasons stated above, it gives people the chance to experience the role-play they come for and to enjoy their time here. It needs to be fleshed out sure, But to say it is going to kill bandit role-play and create a pve enviroment is throwing shade at a part of the community itself. The problem is people cant accept other peoples roleplay desires. Do we want to keep people in the community or push them away? 

20

You make very little sense being that you want to ban the people that commit hostile roleplay which would be considered selfish on your part just so you can get the rp you want, and not at the risk of being taken hostage.

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13 minutes ago, Hollows said:

Honestly, I enjoyed it in the Mod. I'll enjoy it in Standalone. I say give it a trial run, and if it flops then oh well.

I'm not sure what I think about the ghosting rule, though. It's technically avoiding RP to enter and leave a settlement when people are camping it to rob or harass people on the outside. That's the price to pay for trying to leave or go to safety. Either go in numbers or don't go at all.

I don't know man, why does there have to be a price to pay to get there? Why can't people just enjoy peaceful RP in... peace? :D Hostile RPers do not pay any prices in order to get to the triangle? I thought we were supposed to even things out :D 

 

Anyways I got myself a single player mod for 0.62 and teleported around the map a bit to scout locations. Prison island looks ideal tbh, I though it was a lot smaller, but just like with Skalisty the map has deceived me about its size. It has everything, the main prison building for the faction, the small buildings for the visitors, some green areas below near the coast and even a back alley for extortion attempts :D I have also checked out a few locations on the main land like the new castle and some compounds at the edge of the map, but none of them had a great environment and facilities like the prison island. So that's currently the #1 candidate, with the only downside being the long swim to it.

Another good thing is that there is no source of water on the island so people will have to eventually leave and resupply, so no sitting in there 24/7.

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1 minute ago, Rolle said:

I don't know man, why does there have to be a price to pay to get there? Why can't people just enjoy peaceful RP in... peace? :D Hostile RPers do not pay any prices in order to get to the triangle? I thought we were supposed to even things out :D 

 

Anyways I got myself a single player mod for 0.62 and teleported around the map a bit to scout locations. Prison island looks ideal tbh, I though it was a lot smaller, but just like with Skalisty the map has deceived me about its size. It has everything, the main prison building for the faction, the small buildings for the visitors, small back alleys, some green areas below near the coast and even a back alley for extortion attempts :D I have also checked out a few locations on the main land like the new castle and some compounds at the edge of the map, but none of them had a great environment and facilities like the prison island. So that's currently the #1 candidate, with the only downside being the long swim to it.

Another good thing is that there is no source of water on the island so people will have to eventually leave and resupply, so no sitting in there 24/7.

Eh, I get what you're saying. However, when people are leaving or attempting to enter said Safe Zone, they're no longer protected by the environment. They're back in the wasteland per se, and are running the risk of being vulnerable to attacks and banditry. I'm no advocate for hostile RP, I've done so plenty of times in my stay, it's just a risk. I get that it is very often people get into hostile situations, now, but I don't know how to fix it. Was just my suggestion. We've still got time to discuss a healthy medium, anyways! 

As for the Prison Island, ultimately you've got the final say. All I am saying is I have plans to make a new, or similar group like the Regulators and would like to use that as a base of operation. Perhaps, when the time comes, we can have a private discussion to see if there is any medium to that, or room for us to operate as a security force on the island so we can both be happy, with us getting the RolePlay to rehabilitate criminal/bandit characters so they can ICly be productive members of what society we have left in the future. 

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@Rolle I was going to voice trying this location just outside of Komarovo - (otherwise the Cherogorsk / Elektro piers are kind of nice for the concept of it as well)

534px-Komarovo-Pier_-_South_-_AerialShot.jpg.80fda5d6f6e6eb24be540f0416bfd9c5.jpg

Edited by Buddy

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If Skalisty doesn't work, I'd personally prefer something on the mainland. I'm no good with places, but I'm sure there are plenty of them to pick between. The Prison Island is too much of a swim for some trade RP, I think, and the lacking source of water would mean you'd have very little time to spend there unless you're stocked up heavily before even going there. SZ gets a thumbs up from me, but it needs to make sense for my character to risk the journey there, for me to use it personally.

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13 minutes ago, Buddy said:

-Snip-

That is a massive fuck off from me, that place is not at all what it looks like in arma 3, and the amount of zombies makes it impossible anyway.

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Just now, melon21 said:

That is a massive fuck off from me, that place is not at all what it looks like in arma 3, and the amount of zombies makes it impossible anyway.

GMTC held it as a settlement for a long duration a few months ago and it is exactly what it looks like in that image I posted above. Zombies are not remotely as bad as you'd think and for those who are posted to run security for the zone; the tech building rooftop is exceptional for dispatching any infected (or hostile forces). Plus, as Rolle stated he doesn't want a water source within reach; there is one in the main town however people would have to leave the fenced in area to be able to access it. 

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1 hour ago, Jetwells said:

Not everyone has hours to spend in-game, and when you don't get the rp you want in the time you spend here over the hours you do manage to get, you loose interest.

 

As much as you might disagree with Jetwells' hostility, he has some very good points including the one above. It takes fucking HOURS to get a working bus on the road, only to get robbed or kidnapped five minutes later. It's fun at first, but eventually it's not worth the effort. I accept that this is the way it is, I don't want to see all the bandits disappear, and I accept bandits' rights to roleplay however they like, but a safe zone would be a godsend for others like myself who just want a break from it!

Campfire RPers are being told here (I'm not saying by everybody!) that a safe zone - one of the only solutions to this problem - is unrealistic, ruins the immersion of bandit RPers, that we should go and play the Sims, and that we're essentially playing the game wrong. If we're going to accept bandit RP and make adjustments for it, as we have for all this time, we ought to be extended the same courtesy.

 

9 hours ago, Sin said:

Once upon a time, there was a trading post on top of Klen Mountain - I'm talking the original here, the one with the HESCO fortifications, not those fool boxcars.  Somehow, there were very few major incidents there.  Little to no trolling, it was almost always empty, and people used it to trade.  It was protected by rules, but there were also two areas of the server that were KoS allowed zones.

I wonder why it worked back then, but these days it just can't?

Also, a little off topic, sorry. Some old footage of that Trade Post for Sin.

 

 

(Sorry for linking twice)

Edited by ChernaBus

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I'd have to give it to @Buddy here, it makes a great area for RP without the swim that is required to get to the Prison Island. There isn't a water source within the compound and people would have to venture outside of the camps jurisdiction as Buddy stated, which leaves room for this who like HostileRP whether it be extortion or just being hostile.

The main building with the blue roofs would be the main area for the CRs(Lore Factions) while the tin building behind it could be the trading area. You have a catwalk that extends through a good portion of the compound which could be used for those who are tasked with watching over the general population of the camp. And it being in the coast would make sense as the UN and CDF could receive "supply drops" from forces stationed within the sea it borders.

It's away from anything military besides Balota which is a decent hike away, the only issue I see is Fresh Spawns horsing the gates looking for any gear they can pick before making the travel north.

+1 Budy, what do you say @Rolle ?

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1 minute ago, Species said:

-hey thanks snip-

The western most spawn point in the entire map as of this patch is just on the western outskirts of Elektro; which is just under 5.5k distance from this compound. :) There SHOULDN'T be any issue with fresh spawns that I can imagine, 

I'm outa beanz otherwise you'd be getting one :c

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Take out the ghosting rule. You are just asking for people to knit pick that rule into oblivion. It also reduces ALL RP that would come of them traveling TO the zone etc. etc.

fkRT8kR.png

Green mountain. Bring it back Rolle.

 

Islands are a bad idea seeing as all you have to do is wait on the shore and initiate on everyone who is in the water.

They will have to comply. It just sounds considerably harder to have this safe zone.

#MakeGreenMountainGreatAgain

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3 hours ago, ChernaBus said:

Also, a little off topic, sorry. Some old footage of that Trade Post for Sin.

Bless you.

I'm no social psychologist, but my impression is that the problem with the community and having a safe zone is the same problem we're seeing in the political sphere world-wide:  polarization.  There's no middle ground anymore.

PvP oriented players insist that a safe zone ruins their experience, so the RP oriented players do like liberal minded folk do and try to compromise; in other words, roll over and refuse to organize a concerted defence, and bicker amongst themselves, while the PvPers continue to refuse any attempts at compromise.

The game is a sandbox.  There's no wrong way to play.

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So as most people said, and Rolle himself admitted, Ghosting would be a poor implementation if this kicks off.  What I would recommend is that you set a safe-zone that has no clear choke-points for entry.  Places like GM, the islands, or some evacuation sites like in Sobor area would be mistakes because they are essentially just funnels for people to go to.  Unless you widen the area.  For instance, GM as a safe zone should be widened to the fields around the hill as well.  If it were a town, you widen the range to the treelines on all sides.  That way, people can get into the areas relatively easily.  It seems like the only way to do it IMO.

 

This safe zone rule makes perfect sense for the early stages of a game.  Lore-wise, there should be a safe-zone/evac zone kind of deal that will be there for people to rely upon until the Chernarussian government fails.  In the early days of the outbreak, there shouldn't be very many people running around heavily armed and robbing people like roving bandit goons.  Just doesn't make sense.  This is a lore-based RP game and people who try to rob and do crazy shit within like a month of the lore-wipe are poor RP'ers IMO.  

 

The safe zone won't last, I'm not saying that from the perspective that it's a shitty idea, it's not.  It will eventually fail because it's surely designed to as governance and legitimacy of lore factions diminishes.  So to the PVP'ers and bandits out there, bide your time.  And to the cannibals, seriously... what's the deal?

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6 hours ago, Species said:

I'd have to give it to @Buddy here, it makes a great area for RP without the swim that is required to get to the Prison Island. There isn't a water source within the compound and people would have to venture outside of the camps jurisdiction as Buddy stated, which leaves room for this who like HostileRP whether it be extortion or just being hostile.

The main building with the blue roofs would be the main area for the CRs(Lore Factions) while the tin building behind it could be the trading area. You have a catwalk that extends through a good portion of the compound which could be used for those who are tasked with watching over the general population of the camp. And it being in the coast would make sense as the UN and CDF could receive "supply drops" from forces stationed within the sea it borders.

It's away from anything military besides Balota which is a decent hike away, the only issue I see is Fresh Spawns horsing the gates looking for any gear they can pick before making the travel north.

+1 Budy, what do you say @Rolle ?

+1 to this idea. It fits the requirements Rolle wants, except maybe one. It doesn't have exactly clear borders, but that's not too bad. Just say the edge of the forest is it, once you go past the last tree, you're out, or once you stop going downhill and start going uphill, depending on whether you're going East or West. Perhaps even include the summer camp, for an extra area of the zone, because the compound itself can get very cramped very quickly.

Also, GM wouldn't require the ghosting rule, because it's a lot more accessible. You can leave it in literally any direction, having the possibilities of 360 degrees, so getting in and out of the zone is safer and yet tenser at the same time because you know you can't just ghost in. Also not dying of hypothermia is nice.

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Why have a safe zone? Dayzrp already has the unpredictability and deadliness of situations cushioned, and its alright I suppose. But a safe zone. What? And we cant even shit talk in it. So what is this barbies fuckin' dream house? And deleting negative responses to your idea really man?  I'm, like plenty of others, not for this. But I mean, hey I'm just a member of the community, it's not like I run it or nothin. But if this is and I hope it isn't getting implemented into the lore my main concerns is how large will this zone be, and lets say I'm chasing someone who I initiated on and they enter the safezone, why should I stop? Because they hit a magic OOC force field? There should be something to balance out the "invincibility" zone. Or even better, not have the force field at all.

It's sorta like two kids playing cowboys and Indians and one of them says "you cant shoot me, I have a force field".

Edited by Sylvester Todd

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3 hours ago, Sylvester Todd said:

It's sorta like two kids playing cowboys and Indians and one of them says "you cant shoot me, I have a force field".

Nah, it's sorta like a whole lotta kids playing at being hardcore badass mofos, and then this grown-up comes along and forces them to at least pretend to think like adults and act in game like adults would.  A grown-up by the way who built this server and this community out of nothing and has taken more than his share of shit for it.  You don't like it, try some other DayZ Role-Play community.  Oh what's that?  There aren't any?  Huh.  How about that.  Curious.

A neutral territory benefits everyone.  It's a safe respite for those who need it, it's a reliable meeting place, great place to trade your wares, and an excellent place to share the news of the day, including getting the word out about how badass you are and how no one better try an' fuck wit' chu, and exactly where your turf is, so no one unauthorized dares tread on it.

As far as being unrealistic, so not.  There are whole countries whose primary reason for existing is to serve as neutral territory between otherwise hostile folk.  Wikipedia lists over a dozen:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffer_state.  What I find unrealistic is large groups of like-minded banditos who launch epic raids on settlements every other day, despite the fact that half of them died in the last raid.

I know I'm pissing up a rope, but sometimes I feel the need to say something.  Enjoy the server, in whatever way suits you.  It's not as if anyone is going to stop you, or even try.  So why not return the favour and allow other people to enjoy the server in the way that suits them.

At the end of the day, it's Rolle's choice about whether there's a safe zone or not.  He's been kind enough to ask us for our input and ideas, so maybe thank him for that.  And if it does eventually come to pass that we have a genuine safe zone, just treat it as a feature of the server, like Zub Castle, or the ocean, or the colour of the sky; because no matter how much you complain, plead, bitch, whatever, Zub Castle is staying where it is, the ocean is still wet and cold, and the sky keeps its own counsel about what colour to be.

Just relax and enjoy.

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56 minutes ago, Sin said:

Nah, it's sorta like a whole lotta kids playing at being hardcore badass mofos, and then this grown-up comes along and forces them to at least pretend to think like adults and act in game like adults would.  A grown-up by the way who built this server and this community out of nothing and has taken more than his share of shit for it.  You don't like it, try some other DayZ Role-Play community.  Oh what's that?  There aren't any?  Huh.  How about that.  Curious.

A neutral territory benefits everyone.  It's a safe respite for those who need it

As far as being unrealistic, so not.  There are whole countries whose primary reason for existing is to serve as neutral territory between otherwise hostile folk.  Wikipedia lists over a dozen:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffer_state.  What I find unrealistic is large groups of like-minded banditos who launch epic raids on settlements every other day, despite the fact that half of them died in the last raid.

Enjoy the server, in whatever way suits you.  It's not as if anyone is going to stop you, or even try.  So why not return the favour and allow other people to enjoy the server in the way that suits them.

 

Its not a country. Its a small space. some would say a...Safe Space.. And just because something exists as neutral terriotry doesnt mean people will not act with hostilities within them or potentially plan terror attacks on them. Free will as a thing exists. If players are willing to ICly defend this place then sure, it works. But I dont want an OOC rule set to prevent me from being able to RP as I'd like within this bubble. People who want peaceful RP have been doing it themselves just fine, and yes I get the whole point of a safe zone is "respite for those who need it". And if you want me to enjoy the server in whatever way it suits me, why cant I act with hostilities within the force field, and why cant people pretend to be "hardcore badass mofos" or "large groups of like-minded banditos who launch epic raids on settlements"?

 

And don't forget there are like five other successful RP servers out there

Edited by Sylvester Todd

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