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Phoenix

Bad Attitude in Hostile Situations?

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With this thread I am simply trying to get some opinions from the community regarding a Situation that happened in this report.

TLDR;
I get called by PAU to take a hostage off of them that I wanted to ask some questions and gather some general Information, she appeared to have a sidekick with her.
On the way to the Location, @Aberration gives him some hostile RP whilst I deliver the normal attitude my character would have towards the situation.
He gives us a lot of angry attitude on the way to the Pub we were heading to, Aberation even pointing his gun at him to tell him to quit it.
We get to the Pub and RP a little more, where his attitude continues before he makes a really bad remark and gets shot for it by Aberration. 
Aberration then gets a guilty verdict for ruleplay. If you want a better insight of things I suggest to watch the Video Evidence. 

I mean.. Back in the days that I remember, you could shoot someone if they had a bad attitude and you had KoS rights.
I mean I understand we could've probably tortured him and everything for his poor attitude but in this situation, I wasn't really going to torture him in the first place.

How would you guys justify the kill?
How many more occasions of bad attitude would you grand him before taking action? What would you have done in this situation?
I'm just trying to get an insight for the future and just kinda feel like it's basically hiding behind the rules.
Like "Oh I can shittalk as much as I want, if they kill me it's ruleplay" that itself is ruleplay to me.

In a real life situation, a hostage wouldn't have such a bad attitude if they knew their lives depended on it. It just seems to be baiting to get a reaction from hostage takers and see how much it would take to set them off or get killed. It's not how realism should be treated. 

I am genuinely interested in what everyone else would've done in that situation, and insight from staff as to where the line is to shoot someone for their attitude when they're hostage.
I just.. I don't know.. It seems like a big loophole somehow. Like people are allowed to shittalk you now when they're a hostage because if you shoot them, you get that banstrike.

Edited by Phoenix

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Loopholes. They will be found, they will be abused. Hostages or Captors. Its how games work unfortunately. "Loosing" is something noone wants.

Edited by Jetwells

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You need to remember you are a hostage afterall, keep your mouth shut and don't say stupid shit just because the rules protect you.

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Wasn't there for most of the end rp of that report but from what I saw in the video seems simple enough. iI someone tells you to stop chatting shit or die, better stop. Personally I would and still will continue to kill people who do that shit. If i get banned for ruleplay I get banned for ruleplay. Quit NVFL'ing and talking shit with a gun to your head imo. 

Edited by Undead

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I'll drop my opinion here after the appeal is handled.

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Calling @Para for his PoV:

 

Why so sass my man

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I mean, listening to the footage itself you can see that not only was there an issue on an OOC level from those who were captive but due to them not enjoying the RP they deemed it fit to not put in their full efforts, how a mention only goes for this I'm unsure personally but that's just me.

If you're told to stop talking shit or if someone points a weapon and tells you to  "quit it" just as Aberration did after the shitty IC attitude continued then do so or you will be shot, its actually a very simple concept. I feel as if staff either missed this or just blatantly ignored it but of course my opinion will be seen as bias.

Edited by Mexi

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2 minutes ago, Rebel Pado said:

Calling @Para for his PoV:

 

Why so sass my man

My PoV is in the report, if i explained it further it wouldn't get anywhere.

Upon me trying to talk to Phoenix in ts about the situation she refused to listen to me at all so I will not be continuing it here once again. If she wanted a chance to actually try and convince me to either drop the report, or convince me I was in the wrong (for the ruleplay, I'm aware i was in the wrong for the OOC and I did apologise to phoenix ooc in ts) she would've needed to actually listen to me in TS.

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1 minute ago, Para said:

 

You reported two people, wasn't just Phoenix who needed an apology for what was said now was it?

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Just now, Mexi said:

You reported two people, wasn't just Phoenix who needed an apology for what was said now was it?

Actually the only person I was reporting was Aberration for the kill.

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imo it's on the same level as a whitename asking to get sent to the coast, fucking garbage roleplay and I can't phathom how the killer got punished but what're you gonna do. Hopefully this gets sorted out in the appeal.

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2 minutes ago, Para said:

Upon me trying to talk to Phoenix in ts about the situation she refused to listen to me at all so I will not be continuing it here once again. If she wanted a chance to actually try and convince me to either drop the report, or convince me I was in the wrong (for the ruleplay, I'm aware i was in the wrong for the OOC and I did apologise to phoenix ooc in ts) she would've needed to actually listen to me in TS.

When I entered the channel you told me you weren't going to discuss the report and that it was about OOC attitude to which you then proceeded to attack me for having a bad attitude for a mentor and that I should know better, to which Oliv had to defuse the situation. I mean.. At that point I was pretty done talking bud.

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Just now, Para said:

Actually the only person I was reporting was Aberration for the kill.

So.. Why was Phoenix apologised to for the OOC things only? Not to throw this thread off topic but seems a tad iffy.

Either way, if you were only reporting Aberration why did you speak to Phoenix and think that she would attempt to get the report dropped for him?

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Just now, Para said:

My PoV is in the report, if i explained it further it wouldn't get anywhere.

Upon me trying to talk to Phoenix in ts about the situation she refused to listen to me at all so I will not be continuing it here once again. If she wanted a chance to actually try and convince me to either drop the report, or convince me I was in the wrong (for the ruleplay, I'm aware i was in the wrong for the OOC and I did apologise to phoenix ooc in ts) she would've needed to actually listen to me in TS.

You didnt report phoenix. You reported me. So its between you and I. This is a load of shit seeing as how is she going to talk about dropping the report if shes not reported. You tossed it up on me trying to get a lil revenge and we both know it lmao. Tell plank +1 for the meme that im sure you had nothing to do with. 

Maybe if you listened to her and I IC she would have listened to you OOC but I see that you prioritize the latter based on the roleplay I was given. The fact you and Hope actually called Phoenix's behavior unfitting for a mentor in the report is hypocritical given the quality of  RP given to me by a long time RPer and a Moderator. 

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2 minutes ago, Mexi said:

if you were only reporting Aberration why did you speak to Phoenix and think that she would attempt to get the report dropped for him?

He didn't ask for that, which is what he's saying above for some reason. He called me into TS to talk about some OOC attitude I had, TLDR posted a status update about the report, that's the only thing he genuinely wanted to talk to me about.

Let's not derail this thread, I'd prefer if it didn't get closed. I genuinely want some answers to the questions above.

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If in a situation a hostage is mouthy, roleplay it out dont use your ooc KOS unless it is your very last option.

There are many paths you could take, torture both physically and psychologically, or even just a simple beatdown. In that case if the hostage then doesnt react or forces your hand into having to kill then and only then would i kill the hostage even then maybe let him go depending on the situation.

Concerning the shitty ooc attitude, yeah it is understandable after they were hostage for that amount of time and it seemed to be a direct stem of the RP they were getting, it is hardly staff bias thats taking it a bit far.

As to the report IMO the way you guys handled it was not that great. You could have done alot more with the hostage himself to get him to shut up, rather than just telling him to quit it and maybe try make the RP for the hostages more enjoyable.

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1 minute ago, Oisín said:

-snip-

What I am saying is that in a real life situation a hostage is in no position whatsoever to be delivering a poor attitude towards their hostage takers. 
They wouldn't dare to do that, they would get tortured and or killed for their behavior. Doing it in this context of the report just seems to be hiding behind the rules to me.

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Honestly; I had a long night. Wanted to get my mind off of things. Then a lot of complicated things happened on other ends of the roleplay. But my character had her head smashed in and everytime it seemed like I wanted to text rp it was threats. I do admit my attitude was shitty and I do apologise for it. No excuse for it and I'm not going to back myself up on that.

On the situation, I'm trying to be open minded and agree in a real life situation that perhaps would happen OR that the person would scream in the other person's face saying he will kill him or hit in the head with the buttstock. I don't know. I think it could've been roleplayed out a bit more than it should but at the same time I don't know. Grey zone a little. Mouth talk would get you shot but I kind of expected like an arguement or a burst of screaming fits before shooting the hostage. Just my two cents on the matter.

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As a hostage, you should have to bear the weight of deciding whether being a smart ass is worth heavy consequences. You are in absolutely no position to be mouthing off when you're life is in someone else's hands. And if you do, your captors should have the right to punish you accordingly. 

Someone in a hostage situation shouldn't believe they're safe to disobey their captors and be a mouthy prick because they can hide behind rules.

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Just now, Phoenix said:

What I am saying is that in a real life situation a hostage is in no position whatsoever to be delivering a poor attitude towards their hostage takers. 
They wouldn't dare to do that, they would get tortured and or killed for their behavior. Doing it in this context of the report just seems to be hiding behind the rules to me.

Its not real life though, its roleplay. Clearly they werent enjoying the RP yet you guys did little to nothing to try improve. Yes i agree in real life that would be stupid, however we are all here to have fun. IMO you guys did fuck all, again you just used rights given to you. You guys coulda have RP'd out the situation alot better than you did.

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1 minute ago, Hope said:

Honestly; I had a long night. Wanted to get my mind off of things. Then a lot of complicated things happened on other ends of the roleplay. But my character had her head smashed in and everytime it seemed like I wanted to text rp it was threats. I do admit my attitude was shitty and I do apologise for it. No excuse for it and I'm not going to back myself up on that.

On the situation, I'm trying to be open minded and agree in a real life situation that perhaps would happen OR that the person would scream in the other person's face saying he will kill him or hit in the head with the buttstock. I don't know. I think it could've been roleplayed out a bit more than it should but at the same time I don't know. Grey zone a little. Mouth talk would get you shot but I kind of expected like an arguement or a burst of screaming fits before shooting the hostage. Just my two cents on the matter.

I appreciate you being very open minded about this situation, that's exactly the ooc attitude someone should have when they're involved in a report like this one.
I can agree we could've RP'ed it out a little longer but the Poke I got from Para honestly just set felt so unnecessary and not what I would've expected from a Mod.

I hope you understand where we're coming from here. It's not usual to show an attitude like that and not get shot for it after 40 minutes of backtalking. Imo.

Just now, Oisín said:

Clearly they werent enjoying the RP yet you guys did little to nothing to try improve. 

I tried my very best to deliver a good RP experience in this situation and I myself had a lot of fun with the RP.
Assuming we did nothing to improve the RP is a little rude honestly.

It kind of upsets me that you believe the RP wasn't good enough.

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3 minutes ago, Oisín said:

Its not real life though, its roleplay. Clearly they werent enjoying the RP yet you guys did little to nothing to try improve. Yes i agree in real life that would be stupid, however we are all here to have fun. IMO you guys did fuck all, again you just used rights given to you. You guys coulda have RP'd out the situation alot better than you did.

And to play devils advocate, what makes you so good to say that their RP wasn't good and two why would Para need to start poking Phoenix OOC to try and speed up the situation just because the RP wasn't going the way he liked?

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Just now, Phoenix said:

I appreciate you being very open minded about this situation, that's exactly the ooc attitude someone should have when they're involved in a report like this one.
I can agree we could've RP'ed it out a little longer but the Poke I got from Para honestly just set felt so unnecessary and not what I would've expected from a Mod.

I hope you understand where we're coming from here. It's not usual to show an attitude like that and not get shot for it after 40 minutes of backtalking. Imo.

Honestly at the time I just wanted it to in a way end but I was having a very hard time OOCly on real life stuff.. Which again i do apologise for. I don't recall ever backtalking ICly but OOCly of course I was agitated.

To put matters into perspective this is how I was a little wound up. And keep an open mind (I am not trying to drag anyone into the dirt and this is not going against anyone). I was taken by a character I had permadeathed to be captured by him and have him torture ME for someone else actions when I never ordered him to do so. Which I have to build a bridge and get the fuck over it - kind of ordeal. It was then to be taken through a field when the question could've been asked there and then if you understand> 

Seeming like Stitches and Para have some sort of beef going on I think it would've been best if one or the other could leave but obviously ICly that didn't happen. So it was frustrating to have a question I didn't know how to answer asked (which I understand was RP) but could been asked then and there. 

The situation in the pub, I was trying to get rid of my salty bullshit attitude and yet I would snap out if I heard an arguement or screaming but it didn't. I heard a shot and I thought... 'Is someone shooting at us...?' I turn my head and it looks like Para is disconnected. But I'm like 'this makes no sense' so I ask him only to feel really awkward on what to do afterwards and therefore the roleplay was cut.

I cannot control if he wanted to talk in TS or make the report. It was his decision not mine. I just posted my POV.

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2 minutes ago, Oisín said:

Its not real life though, its roleplay. Clearly they werent enjoying the RP yet you guys did little to nothing to try improve. Yes i agree in real life that would be stupid, however we are all here to have fun. IMO you guys did fuck all, again you just used rights given to you. You guys coulda have RP'd out the situation alot better than you did.

What were they supposed to fucking do give them a little song and dance? Hostile RP is a two-way street, if I'm trying to roleplay with a white name and he does no pain rp and asks to be killed then there is nothing I can do to make it better, and it is not fun for either party. Here, they gave back sub-par RP and complained to their hostage takers that they were "bored" like wtf, no one cares if you're bored, it's a hostile situation you shouldn't be "bored"...

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Throwing in my 2 cents here, there is good points on boths sides

On one it is a RP server and we are all here to enjoy ourselves and not to use our execution rights or whatever you think is right just because you have them. All just have some good hostage RP and hostile. It's a two way thing. I like hostages being mouthy because you can leed it down to more torture methods getting more and more creative (Literally hunt some guy by his ankles off a apartment building yesterday)

But on the other he is being mouthy and in a real life situation it would be handled most probably with a bullet if it was the right people... but last time I met Luke Summer he was highly against killing but eh.

At some point this has to be a game and a server with rules and it did destroy the RP with your friendship bullet for something that could become greater. The report is handled the appeal is up let's not have just another back and forth on the forums about a report for the 10000000th time (Coming from me quite ironic right?)

- Galaxy out

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