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Pins and Needles

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This is not a rage thread.

This is not something I'm pointing towards anyone.

I am not out to get anyone.

I am simply voicing my own opinion because I gave good money to this community.

Therefore, I'm not sugar-coating anything, this is black and white.

Facts are facts that rules are rules here; however, leniency is absent just about anywhere on DayZRP. I do not know where to begin with my opinion on how the staff handles certain situations so I suppose I will get right down to the nitty-gritty of what (to my understanding) has happened to an individual in this community. Siorre has been permabanned for saying "issa knife" in response to a previous post from another user, Rocka. I understand how you may justify this by saying "Well there wasn't enough to this response and therefore is legally irrelevant to the topic.". Where, yes, you are in fact correct; however, like I said before, leniency is absent. What I mean by this is that you don't take the scope of the situation into consideration and you simply look at the smallest thing that could be considered illegal and jump the gun by permabanning someone for not even an almost minor offence. What about just telling the person verbally like "Hey dude, you're on final and I really don't want to perma-ban you for something as saying 'issa knife' so please watch what you post, thanks.". Where is that kind of attitude? Where is the "I want people to look back on me as a fair and just staff member who aimed to make the community a better experience for all." Now it's like this "I want people to look back at me as someone who got the most permabans and was feared by those who dare say a few harmless words on the internet.". 

 

Take a moment and realize what you just did by perma-banning this player. Siorre is a well known player in this community and is liked amongst several people. And when you erase him from the game completely you not only piss the player off, but those who liked him as well. Knowing now that anyone could potentially be perma-banned for saying something like "issa knife" has now led me to believe that the majority of staff are essentially intolerant of anyone with nothing being taken into consideration. Not only that, you shut out someone permanently who gave over 200 euros to this community because he cared enough to share some of his hard earned money to you. At this point everyone may as well be walking on pins and needles.

 

So take this thread as you will. If you're triggered, sorry dude I'm just giving you feedback and not targeting anyone because I give a fuck about this place because I put money into it and I want my opinion to be heard, not snipped.

 

Thank you.

 

Edited by Dodge

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Zero    277

I agree with you, leniency is non-existent. It feels like you aren't allowed to have ANY fun on the forums anymore (unless you're staff, plis no give warning points). Siorre was my friend too, however, he had a reputation, he's had a lot of warning points, and from my point of view, it seems like they are trying to find reasons to get rid of people with these reputations, even if they have rehabilitated. Chernov is a prime example (don't know his past, don't know if he had been in trouble in the past, but it seems obvious to me that they wanted to get rid of him and they took whatever reason they could to do so). I don't think that anything is going to change either, even if people speak out against it. Best thing to do is to 

1. Do not post on the forums at all.

2. Don't post anything other then serious statements (might want to even watch this, as points are being handed out like candy during Halloween anyways).

Edited by Zero

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cakey    15

Took the words out of my mouth. Yeah its not right to just right up permaban someone who has given so much!. staff need to chill out and give people more chances! this place should be welcoming and peaceful where everyone comes to enjoy the whole reason we came here in the first place, role play and gaming. not spending money to keep this going only to get warnings and bans.  and question to any staff member who reads this.. when making a decision to perna ban someone.. is it that one staff member who sees the post makes that decision to ban or does a few staff member take a vote and making it some what fair? 

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When I was in staff there was always alot of debate about whether a certain post deserved points. Often it would involve multiple people disagreeing. Some being very black and white like Santa Claus working on his naughty list, others felt it was so minor that it shouldn't even be discussed. Most of the time I feel like these discussions end up with no points (As they should for such minor things); although once and awhile we get people online at the time of discussion who are overly sensitive to fun. Generally thats when you see points for things like "issa Knife".

I always believed that points discussions should go like this; if you have to debate it for more than 5 minutes it means its so small an issue that it doesn't deserve points. If you have to start pulling out dictionaries to argue semantics, or begin a study group on the rules page; then it probably doesn't deserve points.

Edited by Roger

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Yes, I agree. People are being perm'd, way too easily. Especially OG's. However, in this case, I do not particularly care. Siorre was a cool guy, we used to be good friends. However, if memory serves me correctly he was one of the most pointed people on DayZRP. Having enough points to have way over 3 perm bans last I checked, and enough to attain a 4th it seems. Not a loss in my eyes. However, someone like Chernov who was banned on the spot with no warning points is ridiculous.

So yeah, I agree. Pins and needles, but in this case, not something I will concern myself with. He put himself in that position, multiple times.

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Caesar    438
1 hour ago, Dodge said:

What about just telling the person verbally like "Hey dude, you're on final and I really don't want to perma-ban you for something as saying 'issa knife' so please watch what you post, thanks.".

Thats what a final warning is for. You must treat it as your final warning. Siorre knew just how close he was.

The rules regarding remaining off topic have been here for a very long time now. The decision was made recently that we would "take off the kid gloves" essentially and stop using thread warnings that were often ignored.

So essentially with Siorre you had two options.

1. Ignore your own rules and procedures to caution him yet again.

2. Follow the rules to the obvious conclusion and give him points that put him over the 30 warning points.

It's not like his punishment was severe on its own. The 3 points he received seemed fair from the posthumous glance I gave them, but because by his own actions he was too close to 30 points he could not avoid a permanent ban. I am not saying that the points cannot be overturned in an appeal. This was merely based off a very quick glance.

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was really surprised when i saw him get permd for such a stupid and small thing , siorre was on a final warning for a while now since staff forgot to reinstate it but i never seen him shitpost or even anything remotely close to that at all, but then again the way people are getting permd lately it shouldn't really be surprising.

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7 minutes ago, Caesar said:

Thats what a final warning is for. You must treat it as your final warning. Siorre knew just how close he was.

The rules regarding remaining off topic have been here for a very long time now. The decision was made recently that we would "take off the kid gloves" essentially and stop using thread warnings that were often ignored.

So essentially with Siorre you had two options.

1. Ignore your own rules and procedures to caution him yet again.

2. Follow the rules to the obvious conclusion and give him points that put him over the 30 warning points.

It's not like his punishment was severe on its own. The 3 points he received seemed fair from the posthumous glance I gave them, but because by his own actions he was too close to 30 points he could not avoid a permanent ban.

Was he trying to derail the thread with his comments?

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Caesar    438

@Roger, I don't intend to speculate about his intent. It's quite possible he hadn't thought his comment through at all.

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Squillium    323

Not one person that posted or read that thread in the past 4 hours got upset for any reason. We were all having fun and a good time. Did the thread get off topic? Sure, but it was all in good fun and it's a media thread, not a serious discussion that can be ruined by straying from the topic. Biggest problem with staff is that it seems on a lot of stuff they act like robots. There's a reason that people with authority in real-life situations (cops, judges, etc.) don't punish every little thing like they have the law written on their arm. The fact that anyone got points, period, in that thread for today's post makes me think we have bots moderating the forums and not actual people.

 

Edit: Also, as more and more people leave the community it seems like things like this have increased exponentially.

Edited by Squillium

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4 minutes ago, Caesar said:

@Roger, I don't intend to speculate about his intent. It's quite possible he hadn't through his comment through at all.

Seems like something that should have atleast been thought about, especially when you have a thread full of people memeing. I could have agreed with the points if it was on a discussion thread, but when its people obviously having a laugh then why go in and bring points into the matter; I think the fact that its a media thread also makes it kind of silly.

Before people start getting the wrong idea, I'm not here to defend a friend who got perm'd (Truth be told I never liked Siorre in the slightest.).

Edited by Roger

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Alex    451

Siorre was on a final warning, this is actually more reason to not be lenient - they got there in the first place, they should be more careful. Now, in no way am I saying we're harsher to those people. We have standard rules and punishments for everyone. There is leniency here and there for subforums that aren't really needing an ontopic response, but in this case the responses were all "shitposts" and other memes and unnecessary content that was derailing the media thread. We warned based on the rules and pointed that way. I don't think Siorre's previous warnings were even take into account.

End of the day, Siorre can (and likely will) appeal and we will sort it from there. There is nothing to be done as a result of this thread, or any feedback in general. The points themselves were not unjustified. 

Final thing, this is not the first person who's been permabanned from this community, let alone the first person to be permabanned who has paid 200 euros. I'm sorry that you are upset that Siorre was banned, but that's how this works. You break rules, you get points. Again, he can appeal this and we can sort it there. 

817c07c35e8f66bca0ba491d3f25f102.png

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Squillium    323
6 minutes ago, Alex said:

Siorre was on a final warning, this is actually more reason to not be lenient - they got there in the first place, they should be more careful. Now, in no way am I saying we're harsher to those people. We have standard rules and punishments for everyone. There is leniency here and there for subforums that aren't really needing an ontopic response, but in this case the responses were all "shitposts" and other memes and unnecessary content that was derailing the media thread. We warned based on the rules and pointed that way. I don't think Siorre's previous warnings were even take into account.

End of the day, Siorre can (and likely will) appeal and we will sort it from there. There is nothing to be done as a result of this thread, or any feedback in general. The points themselves were not unjustified. 

Final thing, this is not the first person who's been permabanned from this community, let alone the first person to be permabanned who has paid 200 euros. I'm sorry that you are upset that Siorre was banned, but that's how this works. You break rules, you get points. Again, he can appeal this and we can sort it there. 

817c07c35e8f66bca0ba491d3f25f102.png

Again, like I said, why can't you look at something like this like an actual person? You knew he'd get perma banned for this, I'm not asking you to look stuff over if it's a serious problem that is detrimental to the community. All I ask is for some basic human compassion when removing someone who's been here since 2013 and has benefited this community in the past with his presence. 

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I like Siorre don't get me wrong I just think your digging your own grave if you're posting borderline off topic posts on threads. He's been on final for a while and frankly he should know better. Addmittemtly I have not seen the posts I can only hope the points were rightfully given. 

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Alex    451
Just now, Squillium said:

Again, like I said, why can't you look at something like this like an actual person? You knew he'd get perma banned for this, I'm not asking you to look stuff over if it's a serious problem that is detrimental to the community. All I ask is for some basic human compassion when removing someone who's been here since 2013 and has benefited this community in the past with his presence. 

As staff we get reamed out for being lenient on the new vs old players thing. Consistency and following the rules is the best way to go about things, unless there is a clear difference in what's being pointed and what has been pointed in the past. In that case, leniency is possible. 

Fact of the matter is; Siorre broke a rule. I look at this stuff like an actual person and that's the bottom line, he broke a rule. Now I'm not commenting on this like he's never coming back, he has yet to appeal. 

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9 minutes ago, Alex said:

Siorre was on a final warning, this is actually more reason to not be lenient - they got there in the first place, they should be more careful. Now, in no way am I saying we're harsher to those people. We have standard rules and punishments for everyone. There is leniency here and there for subforums that aren't really needing an ontopic response, but in this case the responses were all "shitposts" and other memes and unnecessary content that was derailing the media thread. We warned based on the rules and pointed that way. I don't think Siorre's previous warnings were even take into account.

End of the day, Siorre can (and likely will) appeal and we will sort it from there. There is nothing to be done as a result of this thread, or any feedback in general. The points themselves were not unjustified. 

Final thing, this is not the first person who's been permabanned from this community, let alone the first person to be permabanned who has paid 200 euros. I'm sorry that you are upset that Siorre was banned, but that's how this works. You break rules, you get points. Again, he can appeal this and we can sort it there. 

817c07c35e8f66bca0ba491d3f25f102.png

I think you mean't standard rules and punishments, except for Chernov and Thumper; fuck those guys am I rite?

I can get behind not making exceptions for people; whether it be a final warning or specifics of what rule they might have broken. The truth of the matter is though exceptions are constantly made in the case of points and bans; some of them I totally agree with, others not so much. I just find it a bit silly when sometimes the rules are the law, and are carried out in a very black and white way; where as other times its allowed (or people are permd).

 

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Caesar    438

@Squillium, were we not compassionate in giving him a final warning in an effort to get him to stop the problematic behavior in the first place. Furthermore he had to do 2 seperate unnecessary posts to be put over the 30 point barrier. One just before he unsuccessfully appealed his final and one fairly after.

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I am pretty sure that the media threads are supposed to be not so strict and allow people to crack a joke.

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3 minutes ago, Andrey said:

I am pretty sure that the media threads are supposed to be not so strict and allow people to crack a joke.

**personal opinion**

Honestly this, which is the reason I posted a little joke seeing as I understood the context behind what they were saying, even dumped in some off topic content to save my ass, but that wasn't enough.

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Alex    451
Just now, Roger said:

I think you mean't standard rules and punishments, except for Chernov and Thumper; fuck those guys am I rite?

I can get behind not making exceptions for people; whether it be a final warning or specifics of what rule they might have broken. The truth of the matter is though exceptions are constantly made in the case of points and bans; some of them I totally agree with, others not so much. I just find it a bit silly when sometimes the rules are the law, and are carried out in a very black and white way; where as other times its allowed (or people are permd).

I'm really not going to comment on either of those two people as neither I nor any of the staff team besides Rolle had any involvement in those bans.

Whenever exceptions or leniency is made; it's for a good reason, or a justifiable reason, where the standard punishment simply is too harsh or is illogical. In this case? It wasn't unjustified to warn.

 

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General    10
Just now, Charlie said:

I like Siorre don't get me wrong I just think your digging your own grave if you're posting borderline off topic posts on threads. He's been on final for a while and frankly he should know better. Addmittemtly I have not seen the posts I can only hope the points were rightfully given. 

 

Lets be honest here, if everyone was having a good time meme-ing around in a media thread just messing about, would you think twice about posting something as simple as "issa knife" in reply to a picture of a literal knife? The whole thread was basically off topic at that point so why should he have expected to be perm banned after something so simple, and completely relevant to the photo is replied to? To be fair he was on last warning and had a lot of past offenses but seriously, this is where the line was drawn? him joining in on the fun? its not like his comment hurt anyone, if anything it made everyone laugh, i know it made me.

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Caesar    438

The actual validity of the points can be appealed at his leisure. I make no judgement on that as that would have to be properly looked at in an appeal. My point was more general about people following the forum rules, especially when on a final.

For Siorre I would want a proper look when such an appeal happens if I were the one to review it, which seems unlikely for obvious reasons since it will likely be emailed.

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General    10
4 minutes ago, Andrey said:

I am pretty sure that the media threads are supposed to be not so strict and allow people to crack a joke.

i agree, especially since everyone was already joking around

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4 minutes ago, Alex said:

I'm really not going to comment on either of those two people as neither I nor any of the staff team besides Rolle had any involvement in those bans.

Whenever exceptions or leniency is made; it's for a good reason, or a justifiable reason, where the standard punishment simply is too harsh or is illogical. In this case? It wasn't unjustified to warn.

 

Well I mean, I agree that it was justified as the rules go; but should those posts have been pointed? I think when your handing out points to people enjoying themselves on their thread in a way that doesn't cause any trouble for anyone else in the community; you might want to stop and think "Huh, is it even worth pointing something some minor?".

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