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Unknown Entity

Removing posts vs snipping?

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Unknown Entity    126

Hey all,

So I've been noticing a recent trend: Removing posts.

The day Staff Feedback was put up, a few posts were posted in the threads not respecting the new templates. Oddly, 10 minutes later, they were removed.

Today in a question thread, in total 4 posts were removed (in the wrong order in my opinion, but hey).

 

What is going on with this? Isn't it more typical to -snip with whatever reason- ? Even if points aren't involved ? I'm very confused about this and would love some staff to explain why. If admins are curious I have a collection of screenshots that can be sent privately (in case their is no post history or something).

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AndreyQ    0
1 minute ago, uSx said:

The day Staff Feedback was put up, a few posts were posted in the threads not respecting the new templates. Oddly, 10 minutes later, they were removed.

There was a 24h grace period for people to look at the rules, so all the posts that broke them were just hidden.

As for the rest, I'm not sure, usually it's just -snip-.

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Eagle    409

If the grace period is over meaning posts like that should indeed receive points.

The question thread you are referring ti should have had the initial comment that started the Derailing of the thread removed/Warned and I'm partial to blame for that but as for the others there was no need to keep that contained on the thread as the initial comment was removed.

It was either hide the comments or warn almost the entier thread.

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Unknown Entity    126
5 minutes ago, Eagle said:

If the grace period is over meaning posts like that should indeed receive points.

The question thread you are referring ti should have had the initial comment that started the Derailing of the thread removed/Warned and I'm partial to blame for that but as for the others there was no need to keep that contained on the thread as the initial comment was removed.

 
 

Yes this is the problem, why are the posts removed and not snipped ?

 

It can seem a bit odd from a member perspective: 1 staff member gives away stuff that shouldn't really be said, that in my opinion deserves points, another admits to cheating (also deserves points? maybe more?), yet instead of snipping / warning, they are simply removed, as if they never existed. It looks very suspicious.

For the feedback I suppose it's understandable if there was a grace period, but for the second situation it is not.

Edited by uSx
words

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AndreyQ    0
Just now, Eagle said:

the initial comment that started the Derailing of the thread removed/Warned

What should have been done is the part that was questionable should have been snipped with -please don't post methods to avoid the passphrase- and/or given points.

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Eagle    409
19 minutes ago, uSx said:

Yes this is the problem, why are the posts removed and not snipped ?

 

It can seem a bit odd from a member perspective: 1 staff member gives away stuff that shouldn't really be said, that in my opinion deserves points, another admits to cheating (also deserves points? maybe more?), yet instead of snipping / warning, they are simply removed, as if they never existed. It looks very suspicious.

For the feedback I suppose it's understandable if there was a grace period, but for the second situation it is not.

 
 
 

When dealing with comments such as unnecessary or flaming that are aimed to derail a discussion they are handed out points but due to a number of people that were on the thread going back on forth on the same subject that added nothing to the question, they were removed.

18 minutes ago, Andrey said:

What should have been done is the part that was questionable should have been snipped with -please don't post methods to avoid the passphrase- and/or given points.

 
 
 

Given out points to that one comment would have lead to a chain reaction that would have left 4 members in total receiving points as their posts did nothing but further derail the discussion onto a topic that could have been handled through PM/TS/Report.

 

Edit:

I do understand your concerns as the removal of the comments was not meant to cover something up but to clean the thread of posts that did nothing for the OP as he wanted an answer for his questions but people kept on going back and forth on JimRP's comment trying to get a rise out of the discussion that was being had.

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Unknown Entity    126

It may have been derailing, although I believe for a very good reason, however if I recall correctly what used to happen was:

> Snip posts

> Mod+ warns people to stay on topic

> Snip posts / warn following posts.

 

The first post removed was a member admitting to cheating. The second post removed was mine bringing up the fact that it was removed, but left the cheating technique post. Various other posts replying to the technique then were removed, and only after was the original post. All of this with a fair amount of time in between.

It looks very odd, not putting a tin foil hat on or anything, but I do believe that removing posts is a very rare thing to do. Please do correct me if I'm wrong.

 

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Keedz    0

I Agree , for some reason my post got deleted aswell even thou it was some sort of damage control as i was telling the op to read the rules carefully even thou he bypassed the passphrase wiht the help of jimrp or he will end up banned for breaking them.

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Castiel    1124

Yeah I was a bit puzzled by this as well. During my time in Staff I always said that unless a post is being warned, it should stay visible. If it breaks no rules then why remove it?

The whole incident could have been cleaned up from the start if Jim hadn't suggested the OP a method to cheat on a section of the whitelist.

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Keedz    0
11 minutes ago, Eagle said:

I do understand your concerns as the removal of the comments was not meant to cover something up but to clean the thread of posts that did nothing for the OP as he wanted an answer for his questions but people kept on going back and forth on JimRP's comment trying to get a rise out of the discussion that was being had.

he already said multiple times his answer was answered by the help of jimrp , the thread was not really as the question was answered in a way it shouldnt have been so people called it out imo 

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Castiel    1124

The OP admitted to using a word document to "find" (spellcheck) the passphrase. This is essentially the same thing as what Jim suggested he do (which is cheating). I don't want the guy to get in trouble for it as he was given the method by the co-owner but this shouldn't really be brushed under the rug by deleting / hiding posts.

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AndreyQ    0
12 minutes ago, Eagle said:

Given out points to that one comment would have lead to a chain reaction that would have left 4 members in total receiving points as their posts did nothing but further derail the discussion onto a topic that could have been handled through PM/TS/Report.

 

The posts following were only pointing what you should have seen already. Your PR was telling people how to cheat at the whitelist, hiding the post makes it look like you are putting everything under the rug like nothing has happened. Follow the procedure.

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Unknown Entity    126
3 minutes ago, Castiel said:

The OP admitted to using a word document to "find" (spellcheck) the passphrase. This is essentially the same thing as what Jim suggested he do (which is cheating). I don't want the guy to get in trouble for it as he was given the method by the co-owner but this shouldn't really be brushed under the rug by deleting / hiding posts.

 

 

Just now, Andrey said:

The posts following were only pointing what you should have seen already. Your PR was telling people how to cheat at the whitelist, hiding the post makes it look like you are putting everything under the rug like nothing has happened. Follow the procedure.

 

These are my points exactly, I understand the intention of not wanting the subject to derail etc, but those actions just seem very odd, especially in this situation.

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Eagle    409
3 hours ago, uSx said:

It may have been derailing, although I believe for a very good reason, however if I recall correctly what used to happen was:

> Snip posts

> Mod+ warns people to stay on topic

> Snip posts / warn following posts.

 

The first post removed was a member admitting to cheating. The second post removed was mine bringing up the fact that it was removed, but left the cheating technique post. Various other posts replying to the technique then were removed, and only after was the original post. All of this with a fair amount of time in between.

It looks very odd, not putting a tin foil hat on or anything, but I do believe that removing posts is a very rare thing to do. Please do correct me if I'm wrong.

 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Snipping posts are only done for those that have not broken any rules or do not deserve points.
Warning a thread is not something that is really done anymore but it can happen from time to time if the discussion goes too far.
Warning that one comment would have let to others fallowing, with the thread then getting cluttered with nothing more than -User has been warned for this post- which would have in return gotten the thread moved off to the archives, but as the OP wanted a genuine answer it was left open.

There had been posts already snipped from the discussion but the one that should have been fixed was the one from Jim I saw the comment as him trying to help a person out as he claimed he had bad dyslexia which from my experiences can vary from person to person, I know people that do indeed need their stuff vocally spoken to them through audio books and I take the blame for allowing it to go this far and will keep such things out of the forums.

I formally apologize for not thinking outside my own Box and handling the comment right after I had seen it.

Note:
Removing comments is indeed something that does not happen often and is really rare.

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AndreyQ    0

This reminds me why the staff feedback thread went outta hand. If posts are worth points, give the points. 

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Caesar    438

Most of the time posts are hidden. I wonder why it matters to people whether something is snipped or hidden.

Sure it may be a change. But in my view a hidden comment is superior as it is easier to review it later. Say for an appeal.

Changes aren't always bad. People need to not be so resistent to them.

You can tell I prefer hiding.

P.S. not saying my preference is policy. Just preference.

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   87

Personally I don't think posts should be deleted. The normal snipping method works fine; the part about deleting ("hiding") posts is rather sketchy, and if this thread is any indication can cause some serious concerns about staff transparency.

If staff is concerned about having access to such posts for appeals and such later, it would look a lot better if the offending post was screenshotted and the image saved to a shared staff repository and sent to the offender as part of the warning before snipping it. As opposed to removing the post altogether. That way nothing looks sketchy and both staff and the offender have a record of what the post was.

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Caesar    438
2 hours ago, FiftyFootAnt said:

Personally I don't think posts should be deleted. The normal snipping method works fine; the part about deleting ("hiding") posts is rather sketchy, and if this thread is any indication can cause some serious concerns about staff transparency.

If staff is concerned about having access to such posts for appeals and such later, it would look a lot better if the offending post was screenshotted and the image saved to a shared staff repository and sent to the offender as part of the warning before snipping it. As opposed to removing the post altogether. That way nothing looks sketchy and both staff and the offender have a record of what the post was.

I have to challenge the assumption here. Why is snipping suddenly so much better? No community member can see what the post was. It provides the spectacle that the person was warned only. It seems to me this is less about transparency and more about the intrigue of people knowing who did the bad thing.

Maybe I am wrong, but I have yet to hear a good reason. Snipping post's can still be accessed by staff, it is slightly more annoying to do but not by much.

Now that hiding is possible (it wasn't always so) I feel that it provides a far more effective resolution to the original problem. That problem was while we warned people still got to use the offending post, thus why snipping became a thing.

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Vapor    0

I've been part of a lot of communities and the normal warning procedure was to put the post in a warning spoiler and it would advise anyone that wishes to open the spoiler that the contents may contain offensive material or other wise inappropriate language, etc. This is the first community that I have been a part of that completely keeps the post secret and hidden away. Different communities, different procedures.

I am fine with whether they are hidden or snipped, doesn't really matter. It's none of our business what was posted and staff can do whatever better enables them to do there volunteer work.

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   87
4 hours ago, Caesar said:

 Why is snipping suddenly so much better?

Because you can see that someone did the bad thing and was punished, instead of the whole mess just quietly disappearing. That's why most(?) developed countries have public trials instead of secret police that abduct you in the night.

Personally, I see a -USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST- snip in someone's post, it immediately acts as a cautionary note for me that this is a topic where someone already had to be smacked with a metaphorical wooden spoon for getting out of hand, and that I should watch my tone/language.

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AndreyQ    0

On top of what FiftyFoot stated, hiding posts just gives the impression you are trying to shove something under the rug. In all honesty, I don't see the point in not following the normal procedure especially in the thread in question.

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Charlo    0

I'm going to be that guy and say I really couldn't give a shit, so long as if it's point worthy and points are correctly given I don't care how you hide a post. 

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Sofie    0

Never been a fan of posts getting removed. Just makes me suspicious that something is wrong. 

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   36

More transparency and fluidity of what people have posted would be nice. I'm not to sure about anyone else but over the past few weeks, I've detected a hint of censorship happening around the forums and I'm not too sure why as it rarely has been like this before. 

 

 

australian-censorship.jpg

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Asriel    0

imo snipping > deleting

 

just seems strange to completely delete posts because someone got warning points. every forum I've been apart of the posts just get snipped/they have an automated "USER WARNED" message appear. i guess i just hate change, but as sun tzu said:
 

"if it ain't brokeru, don't fixeru"

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