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Tayto

Points handed out too often.

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   146

Greetings from a concerned community member,

Just read this, now of course I don't know the full story but come on. @FrostyCat wanted to leave staff feedback and because he didn't use a silly template so he got points? I don't know if he left negative or positive feedback but giving people points for such a small mistake is just ridiculous. You're going to put community members off... All he needed was a little reminder "Hi, Can you please use to template provided." You're being a little harsh, giving out points for the little things like this.

Honestly, I didn't even know there was a template to follow. If you go to the "Latest Posts" section and I see someone leaving feedback I might click on that thread and leave feedback too without knowing about the template.

Anyway, my opinion but I'd highly recommend calming down on the points because you're just annoying and targeting your "customers", keep this up and they'll soon enough leave.

Thanks.

Edited by Taig

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AndreyQ    0

Rules for the feedback state clearly:

"Posts not adhering to above rules will result in 5 warning points per post."

I agree with you that each thread should remind people of the rules so that mistakes like this don't happen, but it's just the same as posting in a ban appeal. The only difference is that instead of 3 you get 5, which is a bit exaggerated.

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Hatch    0

Been happening for a long time and it won't stop until some real change is made to staff mentality. There's a saying around this community which is "Pat on the back" which translate into 'staff (moderators) give out pointless warnings/points to make it seem like they're doing staff work, in desperate attempts to get promoted'. Doesn't occur from all moderators but within my time in this community I've seen it happen and received points/bans in similar situations. 

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Rampage    0

I mean it clearly states to use the template.   So use the template.  He isn't exempt from the rules.  

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Vapor    0

There was a 24hour leniency period... And there are rules made, so... He fucked up.

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I don't understand what there is that's confusing or to complain about...

If you go to the Staff Feedback section there are some rules:
ae2608f0e63ddb204a67e4463da2db4b.png
As well as a provided template:
88076b90ae13448b484f582fe98be497.png

I don't know how you can call this an instance of being "point hungry" as the rules are right there and he broke them. It even says you'll get 5 points

Does this answer your question?

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   146
4 minutes ago, Shadows said:

I don't understand what there is that's confusing or to complain about...

If you go to the Staff Feedback section there are some rules:
ae2608f0e63ddb204a67e4463da2db4b.png
As well as a provided template:
88076b90ae13448b484f582fe98be497.png

I don't know how you can call this an instance of being "point hungry" as the rules are right there and he broke them. It even says you'll get 5 points

Does this answer your question?

Okay yeah...

It was more a suggestion that you lads shouldn't be so strict over little things like giving points just because someone didn't using a template for staff feedback.

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Just now, Taig said:

Okay yeah...

It was more a suggestion that you lads shouldn't be so strict over little things like giving points just because someone didn't using a template for staff feedback.

Last staff feedback thread people complained we were too lenient. I personally think the point system now is fine. This feedback system has some tuning needed but so far I think it's a lot better.

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Shark    0

Only thing I disagree with is the fact it's 5 points. Seems a bit much for not using a template. 3 is more reasonable for first offenses. At five points, you're throwing it in the same ballpark as flaming when they're nowhere close.

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Diggy    0

But if they don't constantly give out warning points for little things how will we know they are good mods and how will they get promoted?

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Ellie    335

I don't know why this is treated like a major offense. When I think of 5 points, I think flaming, flame-baiting etc. Something that is considered a bigger offense than most things. But for not using a template is a bit excessive, IMO. I believe 3 should do the trick, 5 for me is pushing it way too much over a small thing.

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Buddy    1066

Like some staff already have done; simply have the rest edit into the bottom of their main post the posting rules for feedback as well as the template code. I know that is all listed on top of the main page however it would seem not everyone can be bothered to read those things unless you make them flash different colors or scroll across the screen. That way, if they still don't follow the rules then they for sure deserve every last point for ignoring the rulings.

Problem solved.

Edited by Buddy

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Diamond    0
23 minutes ago, Diggy said:

But if they don't constantly give out warning points for little things how will we know they are good mods and how will they get promoted?

If this was a game Diggys yelling Check mate 

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Skinner    506

On the one hand, we sit here and criticize the staff for not giving people warning points and then when they finally do, we criticize them for giving people warning points. I don't like seeing structured threads, reports, and focused discussions devolve into flame wars and memes, so I'm fine with a few points being given out to keep things on track.

On the other hand, I strongly believe that it's the spirit of the rule that should be considered NOT the letter of it. Racism in RP is a great example, if someone is tossing around racist remarks just to be edgy and their RP is horrible, they're probably going to get points, but if they take the RP very seriously and use a racist mindset and that affects how their character speaks, then it will further the RP and won't be trolly and no points are required. In a very similar way on the forums if this guy was legitimately giving staff feedback and he was trying to be constructive , I see no reason why a friendly reminder wouldn't suffice to tell him to use the correct format/template. 

It's all about when you can punish someone vs when you should

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Hebee    2666
15 minutes ago, TheMatt924 said:

On the one hand, we sit here and criticize the staff for not giving people warning points and then when they finally do, we criticize them for giving people warning points. I don't like seeing structured threads, reports, and focused discussions devolve into flame wars and memes, so I'm fine with a few points being given out to keep things on track.

On the other hand, I strongly believe that it's the spirit of the rule that should be considered NOT the letter of it. Racism in RP is a great example, if someone is tossing around racist remarks just to be edgy and their RP is horrible, they're probably going to get points, but if they take the RP very seriously and use a racist mindset and that affects how their character speaks, then it will further the RP and won't be trolly and no points are required. In a very similar way on the forums if this guy was legitimately giving staff feedback and he was trying to be constructive , I see no reason why a friendly reminder wouldn't suffice to tell him to use the correct format/template. 

It's all about when you can punish someone vs when you should

The problem with the could vs should debate is the whole consistency thing that everyone complains about. You can't have both necessarily. But you kind of already touched on that point.

It's just a double edge sword that staff has to play with. Personally when I was in staff I was pretty lenient but I can understand why now after all of this consistency bitching that had happened over the past few months they why would they bother trying to help someone out or be a 'good guy' when a forum warrior is going to hop right on their feedback page attempting to take a metaphorical shit on them.

Edited by Hebee

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Vapor    0

Anyone saying that the 5 points are too much, you should've made a suggestion thread or a question thread asking why the points are so high, not when they are finally being dished out. I think this is good. Because then staff can stop being little bitches about handing out points and community members that think it is okay to not listen and to not follow rules that are in place get what they are asking for.

So, kid got what he deserved and everyone else got a feedback system that works. Best of both worlds.

Edited by Vapor

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   594

It was necessary. It says to use the template, so just use it.

I don't see why we need a discussion thread over this, nobody was perma-banned or wrongly pointed.

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FrostyCat    0

Jesus lads I just wanted a simple yes or a no from staff for just getting rid of the points, I didn`t mean to make is this big. If I have to I will drop the report just stop making a big deal out of it!

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Shark    0
9 minutes ago, Vapor said:

Anyone saying that the 5 points are too much, you should've made a suggestion thread or a question thread asking why the points are so high, not when they are finally being dished out. 

Can't fix the rules until you see it in action. So seeing someone get 5 points for legit feedback, might as well tell someone to fuck off to get the same five points. The whole section has existed for two whole days at this point. Your point of what people could have done is a weak argument.

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FrostyCat    0

Yo I closed the appeal, thanks for the people who supported me threw it, I mean its five points which will expire in April, so I stopped giving a shit about it! Again thanks to the people who supported me!

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Rolle    2953
12 minutes ago, FrostyCat said:

Jesus lads I just wanted a simple yes or a no from staff for just getting rid of the points, I didn`t mean to make is this big. If I have to I will drop the report just stop making a big deal out of it!

But nobody is making it "big", we're just discussing :)

The 5 points was meant as a deterrent to prevent another wave of shitposts in staff feedback. It has the downside of harshly punishing those who don't read obvious rules (the rule page is right in your face when you open the forum for feedback and you have to scroll past them to get to actual threads). It's not very fair for those who make a mistake, but alas we're supposed to be consistent with punishments, so there you go...

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Strider    0
2 minutes ago, Rolle said:

But nobody is making it "big", we're just discussing :)

The 5 points was meant as a deterrent to prevent another wave of shitposts in staff feedback. It has the downside of harshly punishing those who don't read obvious rules (the rule page is right in your face when you open the forum for feedback and you have to scroll past them to get to actual threads). It's not very fair for those who make feedback, but alas we're supposed to be consistent with punishments, so there you go...

I still think it would fit more in the 3 points section than 5 points. As its pretty much the same as posting in a report while uninvolved. The reports aren't filled with shitposts and the " only" deterrent is "only" 3 points. 5 points is the equivalent of flamming as others have pointed out. Seems a bit harsh for just failing tonise a template. I do get what you're saying that the template is right in their faces tho, but its the same for reports and appeals we have a template right there and some people still dont get it.

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Rolle    2953
Just now, Strider said:

I still think it would fit more in the 3 points section than 5 points. As its pretty much the same as posting in a report while uninvolved. The reports aren't filled with shitposts and the " only" deterrent is "only" 3 points. 5 points is the equivalent of flamming as others have pointed out. Seems a bit harsh for just failing tonise a template. I do get what you're saying that the template is right in their faces tho, but its the same for reports and appeals we have a template right there and some people still dont get it.

Yes, but this system is new and it's supposed to be fixing the old ones issues. When after a while I see that people stopped with the useless feedback which was the main problem, I'll definitely lower it to 3.

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Strider    0
1 minute ago, Rolle said:

Yes, but this system is new and it's supposed to be fixing the old ones issues. When after a while I see that people stopped with the useless feedback which was the main problem, I'll definitely lower it to 3.

Alright, I see where you're coming from. That plan sounds pretty good.

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