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SirMadness

Would this be breaking the rules?

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SirMadness    22

Hi all, this might be obviously rule breaking to some but I can't see how. It just seems like it has to be wrong but isn't explicitly forbidden in the rules. Anyhow I'll explain what i mean now. 

If my group (A) and I take a survivor hostage (X) and then force him to rob group B, would this be wrong? We would tell him that a player in group B is one of us, and that if our hostage X lies, or explains he is being forced, he will be shot - this is all bluffing, we will not know if he lies or not. He goes up to the group B and initiates on them, either they run away or put their hands up. We will be watching from a distance and if they run away we will shoot at them. If they put their hands up we come out of the bushes (or wherever) and begin the RP. Is this like power gaming? Or breaking some other rule. Maybe we hide a radio in the hostage X's backpack or something to hear the conversation from a distance. I appreciate this is quite a complicated scenario, so if you have any further questions or clarifications just ask. Thanks in advance.

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Noxious    136

Personally I see this as like forceful slave RP. You are making him do your dirty bidding so to speak. I think as long as he is willing to do it, you have his/her OOC permission to use him as a object to which you can use to attack someone. Than I find no problem with it, others may. This is just my opinion.

One last thing, make sure not to use the person as bait. Tell to drop the initiation for you guys then he gets shredded and so forth.. 

Others share their opinions :) 

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   62

If you (group A) force someone (hostage X) to initiate on others (group B), the outcome could be that hostage X gets shot by group B. Since he 'could' get shot, which is quite a logical argument, it means you're putting your hostage's life in danger.  

  • 8.1 You must do everything in your power to keep your hostages alive and in relatively good health. That includes protecting them from external threats like zombies and leaving them with a realistic chance of survival.

I think the rule above covers this situation. It might work with someone willing to do it who's not your hostage. Considering everything, this will result in a report and ban for group A for not taking care of your hostage's life. 

Edited by Misty

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AndreyQ    0

Putting a hostage to initiate on a group is seen as no care for your hostage's life as people will gain KoS rights on him the moment he initiates and he will probably be killed due to it. So unless you have OOC permission from the hostage,  I would not see this working.

Also if group B were to shoot and kill the hostage or not comply with the demands given by him, then you would not gain KoS rights as the hostage is not a part of your group.

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Sasha    0
1 hour ago, SirMadness said:

Hi all, this might be obviously rule breaking to some but I can't see how. It just seems like it has to be wrong but isn't explicitly forbidden in the rules. Anyhow I'll explain what i mean now. 

If my group (A) and I take a survivor hostage (X) and then force him to rob group B, would this be wrong? We would tell him that a player in group B is one of us, and that if our hostage X lies, or explains he is being forced, he will be shot - this is all bluffing, we will not know if he lies or not. He goes up to the group B and initiates on them, either they run away or put their hands up. We will be watching from a distance and if they run away we will shoot at them. If they put their hands up we come out of the bushes (or wherever) and begin the RP. Is this like power gaming? Or breaking some other rule. Maybe we hide a radio in the hostage X's backpack or something to hear the conversation from a distance. I appreciate this is quite a complicated scenario, so if you have any further questions or clarifications just ask. Thanks in advance.

It's been asked in the past,as interesting a scenario as it may be this would be something you'd have to ask permission for as you're forcing them to perform a hostile action which is likely to lead to their death. 

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SirMadness    22

Ok so if we regard the hostage X as a slave/object as Noxious said, would this be OK? 

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AndreyQ    0
10 minutes ago, SirMadness said:

Ok so if we regard the hostage X as a slave/object as Noxious said, would this be OK? 

It would not change a thing. Thing is the moment the hostage initiates, most people won't comply simply because it's only one guy initiating. So not only that the hostage can die and you would break the no care for hostage's life rule but also you would not achieve anything from the situation.

It is a great idea in theory but it would simply not work IG.

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SirMadness    22

Even if the hostage x told them that they had snipers on them and they were outnumbered? If no what about this... The hostage tells them that he is a hostage and he is simply the messenger. That way, Group B would have no reason to shoot him, and if hostage X did not comply we would still be able to kill him. Thinking about it I can see some great RP coming from a situation like this.

Sasha, if we did this it would not any more dangerous for the hostage compared to what hostages have been used as before right? I have been away from DayZRP for a while so I'm not as familiar with the rules as I used to be. Thanks for your patience guys  

Edited by SirMadness

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Sasha    0
2 hours ago, Andrey said:

Putting a hostage to initiate on a group is seen as no care for your hostage's life as people will gain KoS rights on him the moment he initiates and he will probably be killed due to it. So unless you have OOC permission from the hostage,  I would not see this working.

Also if group B were to shoot and kill the hostage or not comply with the demands given by him, then you would not gain KoS rights as the hostage is not a part of your group.

Arguable. I'd consider the hostage a part of their dynamic once he'd agreed to initiate on the group of people. And as far as the rules are concerned I don't see any reason it wouldn't be this way.

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Dusty    1577
19 minutes ago, SirMadness said:

Even if the hostage x told them that they had snipers on them and they were outnumbered? If no what about this... The hostage tells them that he is a hostage and he is simply the messenger. That way, Group B would have no reason to shoot him, and if hostage X did not comply we would still be able to kill him. Thinking about it I can see some great RP coming from a situation like this.

Sasha, if we did this it would not any more dangerous for the hostage compared to what hostages have been used as before right? I have been away from DayZRP for a while so I'm not as familiar with the rules as I used to be. Thanks for your patience guys  

Doesn't matter if he tells them he has snipers. They can still, and most likely will, kill him. 

Regarding the hostage being the messenger, no you cannot do this either. You must initiate directly. "Those guys over there took me hostage and told me to tell you to put your hands up" is not valid. 

You can get your hostage's OOC permission for this, but if they don't give it to you, then you can't do this. Just go initiate on people yourself, don't hide behind a hostage and force them to do it.

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Mamba    0

 All hostages must be cared for unless they fail to comply with demands.

 

If you send him in to rob someone , he initiates he will probably be killed. You know how many people I have robbed who told me they have snipers on the hill? It's a running meme.

So yes. If you send in a hostage to rob someone for you, you WILL be punished unless they gave you OOC permission.

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SirMadness    22

So the original idea is only acceptable if we have the hostage's OOC permission?
Also, if the snipers on the hill fire off shots to show they are actually there, or do something of the sort to show he is being truthful and not just a 'running meme' then would this be safe enough for the hostage? 

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Mamba    0
17 minutes ago, SirMadness said:

So the original idea is only acceptable if we have the hostage's OOC permission?
Also, if the snipers on the hill fire off shots to show they are actually there, or do something of the sort to show he is being truthful and not just a 'running meme' then would this be safe enough for the hostage? 

Warning shots count as attempted KOS/RDM. If you fire off warning shots at me I'm going to smoke your ass like a cheap cigar. No warning shots. If you want to rob somebody , nut up and do it yourself. Especially if you have your boys with you.

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SirMadness    22

This isnt about being safe, I wanted to try something new, Add a new aspect to the robbery :P

 

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Mamba    0
3 minutes ago, SirMadness said:

This isnt about being safe, I wanted to try something new, Add a new aspect to the robbery :P

 

Problem is , by doing it that way you put your hostage at risk , which puts them in jeopardy. 

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SirMadness    22

Ok, so in conclusion, you cant do anything with your hostage? Like any hostile situation with a hostage breaks the rules from what you say? Does it depend on the situation?
 

 

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Skinner    505
4 minutes ago, SirMadness said:

Ok, so in conclusion, you cant do anything with your hostage? Like any hostile situation with a hostage breaks the rules from what you say? Does it depend on the situation?
 

 

You seem to be having some trouble here. Think of it this way, your hostage is your guest. You are responsible for their safety, you are responsible for making sure they're entertained. In return, you can take their shit if you feel like it. However, if you fail in your duties, if they died even though they were compliant or if they were not entertained because your rp was shit or you let them sit there in silence while you took their shit and ran, you can expect a report and you can expect a guilty verdict. 

Think of them as your guest and it will help you understand that you can't send them into situations where they're likely to get hurt or killed. Pretty simple.

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SirMadness    22

Ok that makes sense, thanks guys. I think this question has been answered

 

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Mexi    1302

Hey there @SirMadness if you could choose the answer which suited your question the best then we can consider this one completed and you fully understand what you have asked.

Thank you kindly.

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