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SomeWeirdAssGuy

Criticism, bullying and projection

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I lurk the forums every day and my favorite threads are usually reports, ban appeals and staff feedback, since the meme thread is dead. I've been seeing a lot of "criticism" in these threads, as there should be. But it seems obvious to me that some people can't differentiate between criticism, bullying and projection. I'm not going to point fingers here or call out anyone, either in staff or just regular members, but if you feel like this thread targets you, there's a good chance it's because it applies to your content.

Criticism implies that the person has a genuine care for the person being criticized, at its heart criticism is about helping someone improve. It's about giving someone feedback so that they can then grow as a result of it. Successful criticism is in the interest of the person doing well, very akin to coaching. Let's say I have an employee who works well but is very messy. I can give him some tips on how to clean up his workstation as he works so that it doesn't pile up and becomes a burden at the end of the day, resulting in wasted time and frustration. I do this because I want to see him do well. If he's less of a mess he'll be more productive and he'll do better, if he does better I make more money and the business looks more professional. As his employer, it's in my interest. Whether the reason is because coaching you will bring me success and money or whether I care about you because you're a friend and I want you to be a better person, bottom line is I CARE. When people don't care, it's not criticism. There are situations where you might not care as much about the individual as you do about the outcome. If I go to a restaurant and order a dish that is too cold, I don't need to care about the waitress or restaurant to criticize because I care about the outcome which is me getting a good meal. Even here, the bottom line is you care about yourself so you criticizing the meal doesn't belittle either the waitress or the restaurant, it's about your well being and getting what you paid for.

Bullying is about shutting people down. "You're unprofessional, this is terrible, I'm going to fire you", instead of actually discussing how we can make things different, how things should be and how to get there. I want you to stop saying what you're saying, I want you to stop what you're doing. People bully because others are saying something that hurts them, is triggering them or making them mad. Others bully because some other person's words are pointing out their inadequacies. They don't want to be called out so they puke adjectives in response. Let's talk once more about that hypothetical employee who works well but is messy. I give him some tips, tell him how I myself deal with being messy and try to point out how he can improve. In response he says "Aww come on man why do you have to be such a douche? I don't wanna do this man why are you being an asshole?" See all those adjectives being puked out? Are they giving you a list of how you can be different or better, are they telling you how you can accomplish something or giving you a step by step walkthrough? That's not criticism, that's bullying. You would think that bullying ends when people grow up, but it doesn't. People act the same way, it's just the adjective that change. They call you unprofessional instead of stupid, they call you misogynist instead of a sissy, etc... They do this because what you're saying is either pointing out flaws in themselves or truths they don't want to deal with. They are trying to shut you down, you don't wanna be an asshole do you? So keep your opinion to yourself because if you don't you're an asshole. No.

Projection is a form of criticism where the feedback doesn't apply to you because the person providing it is projecting their own flaws in an attempt to feel better. Most people care about themselves. However people who care about themselves but are not honest with themselves or in the pursuit of self knowledge will criticize their own flaws as they see them, as they project them, unto other people. Let's say I'm arrogant and I know everything about everything and I want everybody to believe exactly what I say at all times and I'm going to interrupt everybody in this room to tell them how awesome I am. Then I see somebody speaking confidently. I say "hey I see that you're very confident but stop being so arrogant it's just bullshit", I am projecting who I am unto them. Not because I care about this person, but because I cannot criticize myself. That same guy who is my messy employee might say "Why are you telling me to do this, you're just wasting time trying to boss around instead of helping because you're lazy", that's them telling you that THEY are lazy.

 

TLDR;

Criticism is at its core is coaching towards people that we care about so that they can become better with a step by step guide on how to achieve that goal.

Bullying is shutting down someone because their words or actions exposes you for being a fraud or lazy or truths that you don't want to hear. They don't want you to succeed so that they can feel better about their own failures.

Projection is going to be done by people who try to tell you how you can be doing something better and it might seem like criticism at first glance, but when you look at who you are it is not going to apply to you at all and will be completely off the mark.

 

If this helps even only one person, I've done my job well. *drops mic*

Edited by SomeWeirdAssGuy

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Asriel    0

the staff feedback thread is like 50% decent feedback, 25% the staff team repeatedly saying "we are warning the thread keep it on topic or else points" and 25% edgy friendos trying to find something to nitpick about so they can increase the diameter of their e-peen and feel smug about really stickin it to the system. (waa help me the staff members moved their temp channel near the top waa)

i dont really see the staff members themselves bullying other people. a few of them do project themselves a lot lol.

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Mental    0

dddwd.gif

Couldn't agree more. The feedback thread has just dissolved into "I don't agree with you, you're a bad staff member", filled with even more complaints when staff don't bend the knee to some of this 'feedback'.

I'm terrible at explaining, but tldr; this thread has been needed for a while.

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Pep    263

I don't see how saying "You're unprofessional" or "I'm going to fire you" is considered bullying. 

Being a bully is actually meaning to harm lets say for example "you're a Bitch" or commenting here saying "Is your safe space hurt?" in a sarcastic manner. 

Telling someone hes unprofessional is a part of Criticism, because by doing so you're pointing out a mistake he did whether the language used in a text, or the way he dresses to work.

*edit- 

Also by saying "I'm going to fire you" is giving someone a chance rather than bullying him, by telling said person you are going to fire him, you are giving him a chance to prepare for it, or on the contrary giving him a chance to prove himself and not get fired.

But that's just my 2 cents, feel free to reply with your own opinion!

Edited by Pep

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Alex    465

I remember when I did my first verdict, and it was kinda controversial. I got some proper critical feedback from someone, I talked to them and others and I explained my point of view. They understood and that was about it, even if they disagreed, the decision was done and we moved on.

If that happened tomorrow 5-6 other people would jump on the feedback and criticise my staff role and my ability, and there would be a big outburst of drama from a single controversial decision. 

I agree with you and I like that you've written this. The difference is something people should take note of.

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1 hour ago, Pep said:

I don't see how saying "You're unprofessional" or "I'm going to fire you" is considered bullying.

The part "I'm going to fire you" was just added for context, the relevant part is "You're unprofessional, this is terrible..."

 

What does saying this achieve, how does it help to tell me "you're this and that"? Nothing at all. I need to know in what manner I am unprofessional and what I can do to change it. Just puking out adjectives at someone achieves absolutely nothing except maybe cause friction, aggravation and escalating a conversation to a school yard insult contest.

 

EDIT: I'm going to use something very objective here as an example. Three posts up, @Mental who I have a lot of respect for has some links in his signature. If Mental was still in staff, this part here Mad about dying? would be problematic for me. As staff, he represents DayZRP as an business entity and this link might make it seem like reports are something to make jokes about. It takes away from the seriousness of the issue that are reports and might give the wrong impression to new members of the community. I would suggest that maybe he could write something else that doesn't seem like reports should be meme fodder. But since he's not in staff I couldn't care less what's in his signature since it represents his opinion and his only.

Edited by SomeWeirdAssGuy

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Pep    263
2 minutes ago, SomeWeirdAssGuy said:

The part "I'm going to fire you" was just added for context, the relevant part is "You're unprofessional, this is terrible..."

 

What does saying this achieve, how does it help to tell me "you're this and that"? Nothing at all. I need to know in what manner I am unprofessional and what I can do to change it. Just puking out adjectives at someone achieves absolutely nothing except maybe cause friction, aggravation and escalating a conversation to a school yard insult contest.

telling someone hes unprofessional or terrible isn't bullying again, it is a type of Criticism.  

By Criticizing someone, you don't necessarily have to specify on what he did wrong, that's what the person needs to understand, you can take the extra step by pointing out exactly why he was terrible or unprofessional, or for the person himself to ask why it was this and that... but not everyone is a pro critic, if a person wants to tell someone he had an unprofessional or terrible essay or act etc... its the critics opinion and he can do whatever he wants with it. 

Saying "you're this and that" can help a man not by specifying what he did wrong and point him to every mistake, you improve more by learning and understanding it yourself. that's how you help a man. 

I agree that by saying "you suck get out of my face" isn't the most pleasant way to critic, but the man being yelled at can take this both ways- he can figure out what he did wrong to upset the man or just take it personally and quit. 

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MattG13    3

I think people should bare this is mind before going on a big rant about how 'the community is dying' and how much they hate the staff team. If you think the community is dying then why not make a thread with useful advice on it rather than a bunch of hate directed at the staff. It's a bit too easy to just blame things on the staff, it's like when everyone blames everything that's wrong with their country on the political system; it may be true to an extent, but the people are the ones who have the main impact.

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SatansNightOut    105
2 hours ago, SomeWeirdAssGuy said:

 

Projection is a form of criticism where the feedback doesn't apply to you because the person providing it is projecting their own flaws in an attempt to feel better.

Actually projection is....

:P

that being said? This whole thread is a personal opinion regarding others' personalities, demeanor, and attitude. Nothing anyone ever posts is going to make an absolute revolutionary change around here----and to think so is just absolute folly and redundant naivete....and pure attention-whoring.

These regurgitated and repetitively puked-out threads are the exact reason I don't take this community very seriously this last year, or so, and it's because of the perpetuation of this type of attitude that both influences newcomers, and drives age-old members away, is exactly why I don't even take many people seriously in this community as of late (anyone catch the redundancy factor? no? damn).

But all things come and go in waves and torrents.

 

Edited by SatansNightOut

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30 minutes ago, SatansNightOut said:

Actually projection is....

:P

that being said? This whole thread is a personal opinion regarding others' personalities, demeanor, and attitude. Nothing anyone ever posts is going to make an absolute revolutionary change around here----and to think so is just absolute folly and redundant naivete....and pure attention-whoring.

 

You accuse me of attention-whoring and you come into my thread linking a thread of yours that has nothing to do with the issues being talked about.

Thank you for showing a perfect example of projection, I didn't expect this coming from you though.

Edited by SomeWeirdAssGuy

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Mental    0
1 hour ago, SomeWeirdAssGuy said:

The part "I'm going to fire you" was just added for context, the relevant part is "You're unprofessional, this is terrible..."

 

What does saying this achieve, how does it help to tell me "you're this and that"? Nothing at all. I need to know in what manner I am unprofessional and what I can do to change it. Just puking out adjectives at someone achieves absolutely nothing except maybe cause friction, aggravation and escalating a conversation to a school yard insult contest.

 

EDIT: I'm going to use something very objective here as an example. Three posts up, @Mental who I have a lot of respect for has some links in his signature. If Mental was still in staff, this part here Mad about dying? would be problematic for me. As staff, he represents DayZRP as an business entity and this link might make it seem like reports are something to make jokes about. It takes away from the seriousness of the issue that are reports and might give the wrong impression to new members of the community. I would suggest that maybe he could write something else that doesn't seem like reports should be meme fodder. But since he's not in staff I couldn't care less what's in his signature since it represents his opinion and his only.

I'm on break, but tbh I never thought of it like that. I'll change it.

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Sofie    0

Cool definitions you got there. There are for sure examples of this going around. Just don't forget that a large percentage of people here love getting offended and basically take anything to heart.

Edited by Sofie

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Pep    263
Just now, Sofie said:

Cool definitions you got there. There are for sure examples of this going around. Just don't forget that a large percentage of people here love getting offended and basically take anything to heart.

exacly

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MapleMooses    0

The majority of the community, staff team included, is just full of social justice warriors. That's the biggest issue, and I doubt it'll ever be possible to change. 

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Dora    0

I agree with this thread completely, I usually get a lot of worthless posts on things I create whether bad or good and it'll usually get branded as "criticism" when I'm getting very little criticism in actuality. Wasn't always like that if you go back on older threads (interview thread series) where you'll see a lot of genuine posts but now it's just eh.

8 hours ago, SomeWeirdAssGuy said:

 

You accuse me of attention-whoring and you come into my thread linking a thread of yours that has nothing to do with the issues being talked about.

Thank you for showing a perfect example of projection, I didn't expect this coming from you though.

He's been doing that lately, not sure why.

4 hours ago, MapleMooses said:

The majority of the community, staff team included, is just full of social justice warriors. That's the biggest issue, and I doubt it'll ever be possible to change. 

-User was warned for this post-

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MapleMooses    0
2 hours ago, GirlGamer said:

-User was warned for this post-

1

Just because you don't like me doesn't mean I'm going to get "triggered" cause you called me an SJW. Show me while I was in staff where I proved myself as an SJW, Seth. 

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Rampage    0
36 minutes ago, MapleMooses said:

Just because you don't like me doesn't mean I'm going to get "triggered" cause you called me an SJW. Show me while I was in staff where I proved myself as an SJW, Seth. 

Hug it out guys.  Y'all used to be bffs.   You both are SJWs :)

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MapleMooses    0
33 minutes ago, Rampage said:

Hug it out guys.  Y'all used to be bffs.   You both are SJWs :)

-User was warned for this post-

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Rampage    0
32 minutes ago, MapleMooses said:

-User was warned for this post-

 

You need to embrace your inner edgy ex staff swag like me.  

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Dora    0
37 minutes ago, MapleMooses said:

Just because you don't like me doesn't mean I'm going to get "triggered" cause you called me an SJW. Show me while I was in staff where I proved myself as an SJW, Seth. 

My aim wasn't to "Trigger" you, i don't know why you would think that but also remind yourself that I didn't call you a just a SJW, I called you a pretend SJW, which is arguably worse. I'm sure you and many others may be able to remember the instance I'm referring to but when puush isn't busy being broken, I 'can' oblige your request. Files on top of files. 

As this is now getting off topic and I'd hate to clutter the comments of SomeWeirdAssGuy's thread, I'm not going to comment further on this particular discussion.

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Billy    0

This is the internet people, who the fuck cares about how other people feel towards you.

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Squillium    417
10 minutes ago, Billy said:

This is the internet people, who the fuck cares about how other people feel towards you.

With your status updates you deserve to be bullied. ?

Seriously though, you're right. People need to hop off the site every now and then and realize there's more to life then getting upset at what the random internet people say.

Edited by Squillium

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Vector    0
8 hours ago, Sofie said:

Cool definitions you got there. There are for sure examples of this going around. Just don't forget that a large percentage of people here love getting offended and basically take anything to heart.

She's right. people need to realise Sofie's statement aside people like to play internet tough guy.  

 

Y'all need Jesus

Edited by Vector

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Zero    451

I've just stopped caring about people's feelings and have begun calling them out on their BS. No need to sugar coat bullshit my friend. A lot of times you give someone criticism they will just say "We will try to make your next experience better", or most likely "Well if you would have just listened to everything we said and not talked to us you would have had a better experience". So.. Being nice now is not my forte anymore, people don't change if you let them skirt with a slap on the wrist criticism. Take it how you will, usually everything I give criticism on is true, although it may not be formatted in a nice way. With "OOC Hate", I'm not going to lie and say I don't dislike anyone in this community, there are a few people I don't like, but I don't allow myself to become upset over them like they do with themselves over other people on an online gaming community. The way some people hate each other here is ridiculous, you would think that they killed the person's entire family in front of them.

Edited by Zero

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