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Rampage

What are the standards for robberies these days?

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Rampage    0

So this little report verdict caught my attention. 

 

So two major issues I have questions about. 

1. First issue is when Space Cowboy wrote that  part of what the accused got punished for is that they robbed the op just to rob him .  

My thoughts are so what.  If I want your shit I'm taking it. It's 2+ years into the apocalypse.  Taking someone's gear because you want it to me seems like a perfectly good example.  

 

2.  My second issue is the bad rp.  

Having watched the video an initiation is dropped, rp is had, a reason why that person is being robbed is said.  There is dialogue and while there may be a second or two of silence there was effort put in.  Was it the greatest rp ever.   No.  But is it something to build off, yes.  

I completely disagree with revoking players whitelistes when an attempt to rp is made.  If it was a drop weaps 10 secs run north then sure I can agree.   

There is no time limit on how long a robbery is supposed to last.   

 

so my questions.  If standards of rp are judged based on the gms who do the report, how is it possible for new players to know the expectations? 

We were all new at one time and to be honest I was shit at rp.  But I learned and got better through experience and time.  

What are the standards of robberies these days?  

Do all robberies need to be a Francis ford coppola movie?  

How did the GMs who worked on this report come up to this conclusion? 

While I get the point of revoking peoples whitelist during major waves of incoming players,  shouldn't we be more constructive and teaching?  

Guiding people on how to improve helps the overall rp.   Banning them and taking their whitelist away does nothing but most likely guarantees they don't play here again.  

Thoughts? 

Edited by Rampage

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Rabbit    96

Agreed. Just want to +1 on this. It seems like a couple of things are going on here that have been going on for a long time (or at least as long as I've been active in this community):

1. They're inexperienced RPers in the first place. Which... why is that such a bad thing? People always shit all over white names but like you said everyone here was bad at RP at one point or another. In my opinion we should be giving white names reduced sentences for things like this, this was absolutely a case where a verbal warning would have been perfect. That way the experienced players can still get the report they so desire and the new players can be told how to improve.

2. More importantly, I have NEVER understood why people say that gear isn't a reason to rob someone, what? It absolutely is! If the only reason you're robbing them is, they have weapons, food, supplies that I need then what's the problem with that? It's the apocalypse, too bad. Everyone cries "GearRP!!" when this happens but alternatively, why are people so scared of losing their gear to a bandit? Isn't THAT gearRP? Focusing so much on not losing your gear that you freak out when someone robs you? That said it should absolutely include a larger RP than that but...

3. People freak out when the RP is a little light. Just last week I was rping with Castiel and a former member of our community. We played bandits who were robbing people solely to steal their stuff, we gave a solid 10 minutes of RP in which we robbed, insulted, and lectured / messed with our victims. Not 5 minutes after we leave we get PM's saying how they nearly reported us for GearRP and trolling? ... What? I mean for gods sake, we THREW AWAY all of their weapons the second we left, it was just banditry? (And we gave solid, if short, RP besides)

4. People want a PvE server. 

Same questions for support as above.

Edited by Rabbit
I spel gud

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Valkerion    0

I dont know what to tell you rampage we are slowly on our way to PvE environment where Player vs Player actions such as initiating on people or god forbid actually taking their stuff is frowned upon and results in a ban. And we are replacing it with settlements protected hugely on an OOC level and the encouragement to play nicely.

I see no reason to remove anyones whitelist here or even any reason that justifies a ban the RP is fine just fine not bad not amazing just fine not even a verbal was necessary here to be honest. Sure it was a bit lackluster but report worthy? if that is considered report and ban worthy these days id be making 15 reports a day.

Edited by Valkerion

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Odap the Corruptor    399

tbh pve is the future of dayzrp fucking bandit scum wont ruin MY roleplay in the future.

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Chernov    0

Case by case Rampage. There is no universal standard or interpretation of the rules or what is and isnt bad rp anymore. Its what side of the fence the verdicting gm is on, and what side of the bed they woke up on that morning. Broken and biased.

2 minutes ago, Pado said:

tbh pve is the future of dayzrp fucking bandit scum wont ruin MY roleplay in the future.

desal plant

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Charlo    0

What ever happened to verbal warnings for the newer community members?

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Zero    452

I've never had a problem with gear oriented robberies, that's sort of the point in robbing someone. I've always had a problem with people stripping others completely down and leaving them nothing but their pants, shirt, and shoes. You need some ammo and that guy has what you need? Take it from them, it provides some character development. Of course, so does leaving them with nothing but their clothes, but I digress. You can argue it's two years into the apocalypse all you want for realism sake and I can argue that I would shoot anyone outside of a settlement because let's be honest, outside what's left of civilization is nothing but a hell torn country full of banditos.

BadRP, yes, revoking their white-list seems a bit extreme though.

Edited by Zero

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Rabbit    96
2 minutes ago, Zero said:

-Snip-

Agreed, personally I did not mean stripping them of everything, I mean stealing select things that your character 'needs'. 

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Castiel    1124
7 minutes ago, Charlie said:

What ever happened to verbal warnings for the newer community members?

Why should how long they've been here have an effect on the punishment they receive? That would be leniency and in turn - bias.

I didn't work on the report and haven't had a chance to look through it, but I will and I'll post my thoughts on it here once I'm done.

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Rabbit    96
1 minute ago, Castiel said:

Why should how long they've been here have an effect on the punishment they receive? That would be leniency and in turn - bias.

I didn't work on the report and haven't had a chance to look through it, but I will and I'll post my thoughts on it here once I'm done.

Because they're new and this is a relatively (extremely) minor offense... I don't think anyone in the entire community would have a problem with that kind of bias. New people absolutely deserve a little bit of leniency, the rules on this server are fairly complex and it takes a little bit to get everything down solid. 

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Charlo    0
Just now, Castiel said:

Why should how long they've been here have an effect on the punishment they receive? That would be leniency and in turn - bias.

I didn't work on the report and haven't had a chance to look through it, but I will and I'll post my thoughts on it here once I'm done.

Bias seems to be staffs middle name from what I 'HEAR' on the forums. 

I just feel the newer guys don't learn shit from getting there white list revoked, I would put money on none of them re-trying the white list again, it's disappointing to see 3 guys go that 'could' have had potential not try their white list again (I could be wrong) , I learned from mistakes, hence my warning history. 

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Oliv    1875
Quote

What are the standards of robberies these days?  

There has never been a "Standard"

Quote

Do all robberies need to be a Francis ford coppola movie?    

No, but I am a fan of his.

Quote

How did the GMs who worked on this report come up to this conclusion? 

Although perhaps there could have been some better choices in wording used in the verdict, we can't all control people's style of writing. Tips will be given, but feel free to send the writer of the report some constructive wording choices as well.

Quote

While I get the point of revoking peoples whitelist during major waves of incoming players,  shouldn't we be more constructive and teaching?

  This is still an active technique that we use on all people under 1 month of being  whitelisted. The verdict was constructive. Tips and suggestions were given on what they could have done differently as well as a link to the mentor programme.

Quote

Thoughts? 

This is way to open ended of a question.

 

I hope  have answered all of your questions.

11 minutes ago, Charlie said:

What ever happened to verbal warnings for the newer community members?

In the last community meeting we had, back in Novemeber/October if I recall correctly, we stated we would not be lenient on new comers because people claimed bias against people who had been here longer. We removed the bias by doing that. I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with your following post.

2 minutes ago, Charlie said:

Bias seems to be staffs middle name from what I 'HEAR' on the forums. 

 

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Rabbit    96
1 minute ago, Oliv said:

Although perhaps there could have been some better choices in wording used in the verdict, we can't all control people's style of writing. Tips will be given, but feel free to send the writer of the report some constructive wording choices as well.

I don't think anyone was talking about the 'wording choices' in regards to the report. I think you may have misunderstood the conversation, it's my understanding we're discussing the 5 day bans and whitelist removals for people brand new to the server who committed minor offenses. 

While the verdict gave constructive criticism (no problem with that), it's the ban and whitelist removal that seem extreme. 

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Oliv    1875
Just now, Rabbit said:

I don't think anyone was talking about the 'wording choices' in regards to the report. I think you may have misunderstood the conversation, it's my understanding we're discussing the 5 day bans and whitelist removals for people brand new to the server who committed minor offenses. 

While the verdict gave constructive criticism (no problem with that), it's the ban and whitelist removal that seem extreme. 

If that is the case, then yes I misunderstood.

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Rampage    0
5 minutes ago, Castiel said:

Why should how long they've been here have an effect on the punishment they receive? That would be leniency and in turn - bias.

I didn't work on the report and haven't had a chance to look through it, but I will and I'll post my thoughts on it here once I'm done.

How is revoking people's whitelist benefit or help improve anyone's rp.  

There was rp, there was a reason.  Maybe it wasn't Leonardo DiCaprio caliber acting but there was effort.  

10 second robberies, sure punish them but this was situation did not warrant such a harsh response. 

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Castiel    1124
9 minutes ago, Rabbit said:

Because they're new and this is a relatively (extremely) minor offense... I don't think anyone in the entire community would have a problem with that kind of bias. New people absolutely deserve a little bit of leniency, the rules on this server are fairly complex and it takes a little bit to get everything down solid. 

A few months back during your absence leniency was granted to newer players for certain things i.e posting on reports they weren't involved in by mistake, we would simply remove the post and send them a message telling them not to do it again instead of the usual warning points. This was scrapped because older community members (rightfully so, in my opinion) said this is unfair and all community members should be kept to the same standard. 

9 minutes ago, Charlie said:

Bias seems to be staffs middle name from what I 'HEAR' on the forums. 

I just feel the newer guys don't learn shit from getting there white list revoked, I would put money on none of them re-trying the white list again, it's disappointing to see 3 guys go that 'could' have had potential not try their white list again (I could be wrong) , I learned from mistakes, hence my warning history. 

I agree to some extent. As you know when a 5 day+ ban is issued to a new member of the community (30 days old or less) their whitelist is revoked, this has been standard procedure for some time now, at least since I've been in Staff. If the community feels that revoking whitelists is too harsh you could always bring it up as a suggestion to remove this and I'm sure it would be considered - I certainly have no problem to remove this standard, I don't think they will learn anything from taking the whitelist again that they couldn't have learned the first time.


As for the report in question, I agree that a 5 day punishment was unnecessary in this case. As you said, the role play wasn't magnificent but it wasn't totally abhorrent either. I think a smaller punishment would've sufficed. I will bring up the removal of revoking whitelists and see what others' opinions are on it.

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Charlo    0
10 minutes ago, Oliv said:

 I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with your following post.

I'm saying the punishment seems way to extreme, the new people will not learn anything from getting there white list revoked and like I said above I highly doubt they'll attempt to re-whit list on the server. 

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Cid    333

I was pretty sure that there was an announcement or somewhere in the rules that mentioned specific punishments and what actions follow said punishments, but I can't find it for the life of me so either it's gone or I'm blind as a bat and just can't find it.  Either way, having the excerpt or not, there is a certain procedure that staff follow when issuing a punishment.  Semi-recently there was a change for newer players that if newer players received this sort of a punishment their whitelist was also revoked.  Pretty sure that category follows under anything that has a punishment of 5 days or over, so the same would be applied for something like KoS.

I hope I'm not going crazy and that is actually the case, because if so it's just down to procedure at this point.  There was a reason for that change that I'm sure a staff member could find easier than I could.

EDIT:  Castiel was quicker on the draw than I was, he said it right.  Listen to his post.

Edited by Cid

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Oliv    1875
1 minute ago, Charlie said:

I'm saying the punishment seems way to extreme, the new people will not learn anything from getting there white list revoked and like I said above I highly doubt they'll attempt to re-whit list on the server. 

If that's what you meant to say then please say that next time. Hard to read between the lines when all I saw was a claim of bias. 

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Rampage    0
10 minutes ago, Oliv said:

There has never been a "Standard"

No, but I am a fan of his.

Although perhaps there could have been some better choices in wording used in the verdict, we can't all control people's style of writing. Tips will be given, but feel free to send the writer of the report some constructive wording choices as well.

  This is still an active technique that we use on all people under 1 month of being  whitelisted. The verdict was constructive. Tips and suggestions were given on what they could have done differently as well as a link to the mentor programme.

This is way to open ended of a question.

 

I hope  have answered all of your questions.

If there is no standard then how can you judge what is or what is not good role play?  

What was so wrong with the rp that warranted all their whitelist revoked?

style of writing has nothing to do with context. 

 

The technique is stupid and should only be used for extreme cases such as kos or jerking off in the middle of player hubs (for example).  

This verdict would have gone completely different had different gms looked at it, possibly.   

How is staff ever expected for new players to grow and learn when they are getting there whitelist revoked on something that arguably isn't a rule break?  

 

Can the GMs that actually wrote this answer? 

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Charlo    0
Just now, Castiel said:

I agree to some extent. As you know when a 5 day+ ban is issued to a new member of the community (30 days old or less) their whitelist is revoked, this has been standard procedure for some time now, at least since I've been in Staff. If the community feels that revoking whitelists is too harsh you could always bring it up as a suggestion to remove this and I'm sure it would be considered - I certainly have no problem to remove this standard, I don't think they will learn anything from taking the whitelist again that they couldn't have learned the first time.

I am aware of procedure regarding rule breaks on community members that have been in 30 days or less.

I'm not saying that should be removed and you and I both know BadRP is a case by case basis the same thing never happens two times, but some leniency to newer members that have given RP a shot just have not lived up to staffs 'standards' on acceptable RP, hence the BadRP verdict. We should be supporting not punishing that server for such a minor rule break the obvious things are things like, KoS / trolling should warrant a white list removal providing the 30 days etc. 

I would have given them a 5 day just it was such a harsh removal of the whitelist and I would strongly refer them to a personal mentor. 

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Cid    333
Just now, Charlie said:

I would have given them a 5 day just it was such a harsh removal of the whitelist and I would strongly refer them to a personal mentor. 

Although staff could just say "case by case" it falls under the fact that some people may get upset that procedure is being voided and we get claims of bias towards newer players.  Can't please everyone unfortunately.  And before anyone says that they wouldn't get upset, this community was getting upset for staff leniency towards newer players a few months ago.  People will get upset.

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Charlo    0
19 minutes ago, Charlie said:

Bias seems to be staffs middle name from what I 'HEAR' on the forums. 

I just feel the newer guys don't learn shit from getting there white list revoked, I would put money on none of them re-trying the white list again, it's disappointing to see 3 guys go that 'could' have had potential not try their white list again (I could be wrong) , I learned from mistakes, hence my warning history. 

 

2 minutes ago, Oliv said:

If that's what you meant to say then please say that next time. Hard to read between the lines when all I saw was a claim of bias. 

I didn't 'claim bias' what so ever, I said the kick up with the forums suggests the staff team have been bias in the recent past, not trying to insinuate anything other then my points, I think I also made it pretty clear in my second paragraph how I felt the punishment was to much, I don't see how there was any 'lines' to read between. 

Just now, Cid said:

Although staff could just say "case by case" it falls under the fact that some people may get upset that procedure is being voided and we get claims of bias towards newer players.  Can't please everyone unfortunately.  And before anyone says that they wouldn't get upset, this community was getting upset for staff leniency towards newer players a few months ago.  People will get upset.

Yeah I completely understand and I know people would be upset, just putting out my point on how I feel it was to harsh, I'm in game so won't respond for a while if y'all quote me :D

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Rampage    0
18 minutes ago, Oliv said:

If that is the case, then yes I misunderstood.

The wording on the verdict is very poor so yes we are discussing this as well

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Ellie    335

Like many have stated before, their RP wasn't the greatest no, but does it really warrant a BadRP punishment? I could understand if they were silent for the entire time the RP took place and just sifted through his stuff and immediately left. However the attempt in communicating and still try to RP through the situation was there. Maybe people have too high of a standard and expect 2hr long robberies with an insane plot (exaggerating of course). When in reality, some people just want to go in there without all the extra stuff, and that's perfectly fine.

But regardless, I think they need a push into the right direction, rather than a punishment, as I find this to be a very minor thing. But that's just me.

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