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Rule 15 - Permanent Death Discussion

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No for this simple reason: There is no need to create more rules.

People already do this willingly and therefore there is no need to force everyone else to do this. I do think people should be more open to allowing perma death, but that needs to be their own decision. There should not be some external factor in the form of rules that looms over how people direct their characters. No one should be banned or given points for not wanting to permanently kill the character they have put so much time and effort into.

Ignoring all the abuse and loopholes that result from this, there simply is no need for this. Leave it up to the player. Let them do it themselves, don't bring in an ooc factor in the forum of rules.

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1 hour ago, Nihoolious said:

No for this simple reason: There is no need to create more rules.

People already do this willingly and therefore there is no need to force everyone else to do this. I do think people should be more open to allowing perma death, but that needs to be their own decision. There should not be some external factor in the form of rules that looms over how people direct their characters. No one should be banned or given points for not wanting to permanently kill the character they have put so much time and effort into.

Ignoring all the abuse and loopholes that result from this, there simply is no need for this. Leave it up to the player. Let them do it themselves, don't bring in an ooc factor in the forum of rules.

Eh, I don't think it would be applied in the way you think it would be applied.

If the staff did exactly what you said they might do here I would agree with you 100%. But I very much doubt it would be as harsh as you are making it out to be. People will have kept characters for years, some since mod so this rule I'm hoping will be more lax than some.

it will add an essence of fear that some of us haven't felt in a long time in the world of dayZ. The feeling when you walk into a town full of people and you consider it a huge fucking mistake rather than a chance to catch up with ooc pals. Which is a bad way of expressing it I guess but a relatively realistic one ^.^

It'll also mean people can hold grudges, fight out wars for more than just "I'm bored, I'm going to fight you for fun". Say I initiate and execute@Fox or @Blitz 6 times (sorry for picking you out), that'll give people much more of a reason to beat the living shit out of each other. As long as both sides can be trusted, numbers would be cut down like real wars. Fighting knowing the real risk of doing so. Not "oh, I've died let's gear up and get into the fight".

Without sounding insulting or at all condescending, I think it might help if you saw the bigger picture. Although it looks like more rules to follow and a possible entryway for exploiters and new rule shields, I reckon it could lead to something really exciting.

But hey its all opinions, if that's the way you feel I entirely respect that and won't question it. :)

 

 

Little additional edit:

Something I see being a problem for people is when they die they lose their memories ICly of people. Relationships, friends, family that they had before. But if we had wars which literally cleared entire groups of people out, nobody would know each other.

Picture walking through stary knowing everyone there OOCly, but on an IC level nobody knowing anybody. Hearing voices you know, but not recognising their actions, their personalities. Listening to creative, original stories from new, inventive characters, no matter how strange or normal, brutal or kind the people behind the screen play them as. That's what I want out of this. I don't want to meet the same people over and over just to have the same thing happen.

 

Edited by King

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37 minutes ago, King said:

...Say I initiate and execute@Fox or ...

 

Could you not.

Thanks.

Edited by Fox

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1 minute ago, Fox said:

Could you not.

xD

Random name out of the hat I promise. I don't hold too many IC grudges so don't take it personally :D

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Personally, I have always been an advocate for the concept of freedom of choice and the player choosing whether or not to perma-death. However, I am not exactly against the idea the rule is bringing into discussion. Value of life has diminished on RP and we have lost the fear of the consequences of our actions on this server, the idea would spark consequences and fear for life again. It's not perfect as stated previously but no rules here are perfect either, so trying to adjust to it doesn't seem that bad. 

From the irrelevant opinion of yours truly,

Hood

Edited by Black Phoenix

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6 hours ago, Nihoolious said:

No for this simple reason: There is no need to create more rules.

People already do this willingly and therefore there is no need to force everyone else to do this. I do think people should be more open to allowing perma death, but that needs to be their own decision. There should not be some external factor in the form of rules that looms over how people direct their characters. No one should be banned or given points for not wanting to permanently kill the character they have put so much time and effort into.

Ignoring all the abuse and loopholes that result from this, there simply is no need for this. Leave it up to the player. Let them do it themselves, don't bring in an ooc factor in the forum of rules.

I kind of think like this too. I don't see how this will positively affect RP on the servers. In fact I think this would only increase the OOC fueled "hunts" on other groups or players. In my opinion permadeath should always be decision taken by the character owner. Besides that, I'm not sure whom this rule would be aimed at?

  • Casual RPers will probably not initiate on the same group/person 6 times in a 2 months, so this will not apply to them
  • Campfire RPers will definitely not initiate on someone 6 times in 2 months, unless they are baited into it (which is rule break and wouldn't count)
  • PvP RPers, even if they initiate on someone 6 times in a month, get caught and executed, they just create a new character and carry on? Or when they initiate 4 times they switch to a new 'alt', wait it out and the counter resets.

I dunno, in the current form it just doesn't speak to me, it doesn't achieve anything IMO. And the trouble of having to keep screenshots, videos etc as proof for 2 months? That's a huge hassle for a regular player, would totally discourage me from playing.

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Should be simple: 3 total valid executions=Forced Perma. Everyone needs to have a valid character page, whitelist backstories need to be more stringent. The execution tally should be permanent or 3-6 months to emulate injuries in a way. The way to track it? Create a staff monitored system where the executors report in their executions and the person's name, staff adds it to the player's count and if they hit 3, they are forced by staff to make a new character. Each character page needs to be approved or at least be acceptable if a staff member happens upon it or reviews it in the case of report.

Edit: If the executed feels in the execution was invalid, they can report as normal and the tally from that encounter is removed or not accepted.

Edited by MGGenao

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18 hours ago, Cow said:

Alrighty then, what about your views on the current draft for Rule 15? I think the whole limited/Registered character debate is for another thread.

i must say, this here is not my first discussion about a permdeathrule and im a little bit tired of this.

i played on a server with a hardcore permdeatch rule(1 dead in RP = permdeath) and i played on a server with a lesser hard rule( 3kills=permdeath after admins looked into the case of the death) and everything of this is bullshit. at the end im against that thing that someone can permdeath you without your permission. 

btw, what exactly is the reason that we are talking about that kind of rule? 

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3 minutes ago, Chilli said:

i must say, this here is not my first discussion about a permdeathrule and im a little bit tired of this.

i played on a server with a hardcore permdeatch rule(1 dead in RP = permdeath) and i played on a server with a lesser hard rule( 3kills=permdeath after admins looked into the case of the death) and everything of this is bullshit. at the end im against that thing that someone can permdeath you without your permission. 

btw, what exactly is the reason that we are talking about that kind of rule? 

Read the thread, there's a few explanations there.

Permadeath is meant as a consequence for IC actions.

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10 minutes ago, Chilli said:

i must say, this here is not my first discussion about a permdeathrule and im a little bit tired of this.

i played on a server with a hardcore permdeatch rule(1 dead in RP = permdeath) and i played on a server with a lesser hard rule( 3kills=permdeath after admins looked into the case of the death) and everything of this is bullshit. at the end im against that thing that someone can permdeath you without your permission. 

btw, what exactly is the reason that we are talking about that kind of rule? 

It's pretty shitty that you can execute the same character time and time again and they come back like nothing ever happened, it does get pretty boring and stale.

Wouldn't you agree?

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7 hours ago, MGGenao said:

Should be simple: 3 total valid executions=Forced Perma. Everyone needs to have a valid character page, whitelist backstories need to be more stringent. The execution tally should be permanent or 3-6 months to emulate injuries in a way. The way to track it? Create a staff monitored system where the executors report in their executions and the person's name, staff adds it to the player's count and if they hit 3, they are forced by staff to make a new character. Each character page needs to be approved or at least be acceptable if a staff member happens upon it or reviews it in the case of report.

Edit: If the executed feels in the execution was invalid, they can report as normal and the tally from that encounter is removed or not accepted.

Please stop suggesting adding duties to staff. They dont have time nor should they care about who, when, how 100s of character will die. We should not have to jump through any more hoops to play on the servers, we already have a whitelist for that, so why should I have to make a character page, background for every character I play, of which I currently have three? 

People are making this entirely too complicated when simplicity will be king. X number of exections, properly roleplayed out over X number of days = perma death. Simple, sufficient, and easy to track.

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38 minutes ago, Elmo said:

Read the thread, there's a few explanations there.

Permadeath is meant as a consequence for IC actions.

forced by other players without your permission. at the end you must change how you play your char if you want to survive, that kills the RP for some chars . i take my char maria/faceless as an example. i took many different guys hostage as faceless in the past and i played some games with them and also drunk blood from them, sometimes i changed back to maria in the middle of the situation. maria surrendered and let the hostages free, but with a rule like this i will never do this again because im too scared that someone is going to permdeath maria (after some more hostilities). so if you want to play a char like maria/faceless you have to make a scrap char without backround story, or a fast and stupid backroundstory. or you play only the nice guy that no one gets the right to permdeath you. this leads to much more boring RP  and guys are going to stop playing here.

 

31 minutes ago, Smash Gordon said:

It's pretty shitty that you can execute the same character time and time again and they come back like nothing ever happened, it does get pretty boring and stale.

Wouldn't you agree?

sure, for guys with focus on pvp is this a stupid thing, but executions are not the only way to handle hostilities with your ingame foes. and what is with death from a grenade, you are in a firefight with others and you get blow up by a grenade and your blood and guts are all over the place, how stupid is this for the guys who killed  you if they see you again on the next day?! so why not permdeathing your char after you get killed in a firefight?!

Edited by Chilli

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Just now, Chilli said:

 

sure, for guys with focus on pvp is this a stupid thing, but executions are not the only way to handle hostilities with your ingame foes. and what is with death from a grenade, you are in a firefight with others and you get blow up by a grenade and your blood and guts are all over the place, how stupid is this for the guys who killed  if they see you again on the next day?! so why not permdeathing your char after you get killed in a firefight?!

In a firefight people are too busy lighting each other up to go around asking everyone their names.

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Just now, Chilli said:

-snip-

In the sense that it forces you not to act like a knife-happy edgelord with a death wish? Your RP sounds interesting and I don't know why that rule would stop you. If you're not prepared to face the consequences of your actions and wish to use the rules to protect you, then perhaps its time to play a character with a different mentality. Or don't get caught :)

You are also operating off of the assumption that you whale on the same guy 6 times, how unfortunate is that for you? Have you even read the thread?

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Just now, Smash Gordon said:

In a firefight people are too busy lighting each other up to go around asking everyone their names.

they are situations who you know someone and this guy is trapped in a house, you killed him with a grenade but you see him  the next day alive, is this not also a stupid situation for you?

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1 minute ago, Chilli said:

they are situations who you know someone and this guy is trapped in a house, you killed him with a grenade but you see him  the next day alive, is this not also a stupid situation for you?

If he's trapped in a house and you kill him with a grenade I am pretty sure the body would be unidentifiable plus they ain't gonna give you a name and unless you have X-Ray vision you won't see what they look like. Plus I doubt most people are stupid enough to get themselves in that kind of situation.

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1 minute ago, Elmo said:

In the sense that it forces you not to act like a knife-happy edgelord with a death wish? Your RP sounds interesting and I don't know why that rule would stop you. If you're not prepared to face the consequences of your actions and wish to use the rules to protect you, then perhaps its time to play a character with a different mentality. Or don't get caught :)

You are also operating off of the assumption that you whale on the same guy 6 times, how unfortunate is that for you? Have you even read the thread?

yes i have read some parts of the thread but not every post.

i played many different chars, but maria is my mainchar and i dont permdeath her. i will use another char as an example, my char sergey was more a normal char but he had a problem with his anger managment, so he was a mouthy guy and that leads to a "few" :D verbal hostile actions that ends mostly in an initiation from the others. and now sergey gets problem 5 times with the same guys but im not really ready to permdeath him, so i must change the RPstyle from my char instantly if i see the same guys again. no thank you.

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6 minutes ago, Chilli said:

-snip-

Maybe you could've RP'd out Serg realising that he's a mortal man that can't piss everybody off or he'll get killed, it'd make for some decent character development. Like I said, if you don't want to permadeath, play smart and don't get caught, or don't be hostile at all :) 

Edited by Elmo
Noticed Sergei is Serdead :(

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8 minutes ago, Smash Gordon said:

If he's trapped in a house and you kill him with a grenade I am pretty sure the body would be unidentifiable plus they ain't gonna give you a name and unless you have X-Ray vision you won't see what they look like. Plus I doubt most people are stupid enough to get themselves in that kind of situation.

i mean a situation where you know the guy exactly, because this is the second time you have some problems with him. so the szenario is that you know wich person you have killed in the firefight but you see him again on the next day. i guess that is also a stupid situation, right?!

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2 minutes ago, Elmo said:

Maybe you could RP out Serg realising that he's a mortal man that can't piss everybody off or he'll get killed, it'd make for some decent character development. Like I said, if you don't want to permadeath, play smart and don't get caught, or don't be hostile at all :) 

that limited the amount of different chars you can play and you can met ingame,  leads to the same chars over and over again and this leads to boring RP.

i told you sergey was more the normal guy, so he knows he had a problem with anger managment and he is pissing off people, but this is a think that you cant change in a few days or weeks, this needs a lot of time and work. 

i make it short now, they are more negative things as positive things with a rule like this.

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Just now, Chilli said:

that limited the amount of different chars you can play and you can met ingame,  leads to the same chars over and over again and this leads to boring RP.

i told you sergey was more the normal guy, so he knows he had a problem with anger managment and he is pissing off people, but this is a think that you cant change in a few days or weeks, this needs a lot of time and work. 

i make it short now, they are more negative things as positive things with a rule like this.

It doesn't limit the characters you can play, it forces you to THINK about what you're doing. I understand having a level of protection taken away from your character is difficult, but with any action comes consequences and, for the RP to be fair for the other person, they must be allowed to deliver those consequences to the fullest extent of their ability and desire.

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30 minutes ago, Elmo said:

It doesn't limit the characters you can play, it forces you to THINK about what you're doing. I understand having a level of protection taken away from your character is difficult, but with any action comes consequences and, for the RP to be fair for the other person, they must be allowed to deliver those consequences to the fullest extent of their ability and desire.

but then i want to see a full permdeathrule not only the execution shit, so if you die from a headshot in a firefight you have to permdeath your char. this brings much more fear to everyone as only the execution thing. ;)  how this sounds for you?

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5 minutes ago, Chilli said:

but then i want to see a full permdeathrule not only the execution shit, so if you die from a headshot in a firefight you have to permdeath your char. this brings much more fear to everyone as only the execution thing. ;)  how this sounds for you?

I remember the first time I met Sergey, while leaving someone in the group pulled a pistol and shot me in the back. I spun around and 360noscoped Sergey in the face. He would have been permadeathed then and there by what you are suggesting. I dont think thats such a grand plan. 

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14 hours ago, Rolle said:

I kind of think like this too. I don't see how this will positively affect RP on the servers. In fact I think this would only increase the OOC fueled "hunts" on other groups or players. In my opinion permadeath should always be decision taken by the character owner. Besides that, I'm not sure whom this rule would be aimed at?

  • Casual RPers will probably not initiate on the same group/person 6 times in a 2 months, so this will not apply to them
  • Campfire RPers will definitely not initiate on someone 6 times in 2 months, unless they are baited into it (which is rule break and wouldn't count)
  • PvP RPers, even if they initiate on someone 6 times in a month, get caught and executed, they just create a new character and carry on? Or when they initiate 4 times they switch to a new 'alt', wait it out and the counter resets.

I dunno, in the current form it just doesn't speak to me, it doesn't achieve anything IMO. And the trouble of having to keep screenshots, videos etc as proof for 2 months? That's a huge hassle for a regular player, would totally discourage me from playing.

It can aim at everyone, really. Getting perma deathed isn't the only thing that happens, someone has to perma death you and RP that scenario out. If you keep robbing this innocent group of people and eventually they perm you, its going to be "hard" for them and they're going to have to RP it out (at the execution and within their group) and they will have the satisfaction (OOC and IC) of being able to move on to something new rather than kill the same guy who keeps robbing you.

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I've just been entertaining the idea but I'm with Rolle. I was talking this over with @Kat last night. As a bandit, even if I robbed the same guy 6 times in 60 day consecutively, even if you caught me, you would not have enough evidence to execute me and then cause the perma. There are entirely too many ways around anything you could come up with in a rule. First you need evidence. My characyer rarely if ever shows his face. My character also, if he recognizes a past victim, changes his voice to avoid detection because he has a distinct accent and voice. My character also never initiates if he is in a group. Most times he doesnt even talk unless he gets pissed off. He is usually maintaining a perimeter and stopping other randoms from interfering. 

Now, when it comes to groups, in the past we never had the same dude initiate, or the same dudes roleplay with the hostages. Also we never gave out the name of the group...who do you hold responsible? How do you keep track if you dont know who keeps harassing you?

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