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KyleRP

RDM and No initation in Kabanino - 12/12/16 EU S1 05:32x server time

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Server and location: S1 EU In kabanino

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME): 7:41PM GMT or 05:32x 

Your in game name: Frank Eugine

Names of allies involved: Vlad Zykov

Name of suspect/s: not a single clue, it was a cluster

Friendly/Enemy vehicles involved (if any): N/A

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot): Vlad Zykov (Nozzy1110) will provide video evidence from his POV

Detailed description of the events: So me and my friend vlad walked into kab looking to talk to people, we started talking with some guys, one of them was called caleb o'reilly i think, we then moved down the town to talk to some more guys. as we were talking we heard lots of gunshots, the guys we were talking to were questioning what was happening so they decided to move up and have a look, we did too, we found a dead guy on the road and we didnt hear any initiation before his death so we were in the dark as to what happened, i look up on the hill and see a guy with a UMP-45 (the gun i heard shots from) and i watched him, he killed another guy and a few shots landed near me, considering i thought he was against the whole town group, i decided to open fire to protect myself, next minute i just get lit up from my right side, dunno who it was and there was no initiation.

Edited by Kyle_Jones

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Here is the video of what happened  

Edited by Nozzy1110

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I was frank eugine, the one in full black talking in ts

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I'm Caleb O'Reilly I am the one in the red beret at the start of the video.

After talking to the few lads, I walked up to the church when a man with an AUG was showing off his weapon to a guy. All seemed normal when suddenly the man with the AUG randomly shoots him dead and sprints up to the church. I am standing in shock on the road when I see all the men running with Orange ArmBand and lots of gun fire, I then sprint to VMC and appear back 5 minutes later with no weapon as one of my lads were shot in the leg at the pond outside kab (John Stag). I meet him and we leave.

I was no involved in any of the parties, I simply was there.

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I'm Vlad Zykov, the character in the video that is recording.

Me and Frank walked into town and talked to Mr. Caleb O'Reilly after that we walked down into the center of the town and was gonna find out what was going on since there was a lot of people there. After hearing the gun shots we decided to investigate to which we find a dead gun in the middle of the road. More gunshots start ringing and we all take cover. I hide behind the house while frank hides in the bush. Seconds later more gunshots are fired and Frank dies in the bush. I pull up my hands and walk out of cover to a guy in a red armband. He tells me to run away if i'm not a part of this fight and i do so without arguing, after that i didn't come back to the town until around 5 min later

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@Kyle_Jones if I understand correctly, you opened fire on one of the people because he was shooting someone. What gave you KoS rights on him?

As a follow up to my question, why did you decide to run towards the shots even after seeing the dead body? It was clear there was a firefight going on, so why enter it?

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Just now, Andrey said:

@Kyle_Jones if I understand correctly, you opened fire on one of the people because he was shooting someone. What gave you KoS rights on him?

as i was walking up to the situation i took a shot right next to my foot, i decide at that point that considering im the bodyguard for vlad, i would protect him and me by providing supressing fire, while i moved him out, i wasnt directly trying to kill the person although i was trying to keep him pinned. 

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8 minutes ago, Andrey said:

@Kyle_Jones if I understand correctly, you opened fire on one of the people because he was shooting someone. What gave you KoS rights on him?

As a follow up to my question, why did you decide to run towards the shots even after seeing the dead body? It was clear there was a firefight going on, so why enter it?

and in relation to your question we wanted to investigate, we didnt know what it was, whether it was a guy killing a zombie or just a guy firing in the air. When we got there and found out it was a firefight we took shots so i took cover and you can hear me in the video i call out to take cover to everyone around

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Looking through your ally's recording, there seemed to be no shots at your party. You can see at 01:30 you are running up the road, you then have view on the shooter and he is firing in the air which is followed by snaps. These snaps do not grant you KOS since you cannot be 100% sure that he was firing at you.

If you also listen to the footage, you can hear that the shots are coming from the southern treeline of Kabanino, but when you move around the house out of line of sight, you still hear the snaps even though he did not have eyes on you. You see this at roughly 01:51.  You also state that you were not shooting to kill, but if you did not have proper KOS rights, there is no rule which allows you to only suppress him, this could potentially be seen as Attempted KOS/RDM. 

This is just some clarification for you. 

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10 minutes ago, Jamie said:

Looking through your ally's recording, there seemed to be no shots at your party. You can see at 01:30 you are running up the road, you then have view on the shooter and he is firing in the air which is followed by snaps. These snaps do not grant you KOS since you cannot be 100% sure that he was firing at you.

If you also listen to the footage, you can hear that the shots are coming from the southern treeline of Kabanino, but when you move around the house out of line of sight, you still hear the snaps even though he did not have eyes on you. You see this at roughly 01:51.  You also state that you were not shooting to kill, but if you did not have proper KOS rights, there is no rule which allows you to only suppress him, this could potentially be seen as Attempted KOS/RDM. 

This is just some clarification for you. 

I wasnt the one next to the house, i was the guy in full black that was crouched next to the tree.

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12 minutes ago, Kyle_Jones said:

-

It was more of a general statement to you and your ally. I am fully aware you were in full black next to the tree. I could have perhaps worded it better, so apologies. Logs for the situation will also be posted soon, so no need to worry. 

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Name: Ryan Robertson (pretty sure I'm the guy who shot him)

Affiliation: A World Without Borders

POV:

So I'm in Kabanino with the guerrilla squad ( @Cloudy and @Sam Fields ) and we spot a group of Floor 11 in the centre of town. We know that Cloudy and Sam have valid KOS rights on some of the members but we hang around to make sure we do not kill any of their members invalidly. We spot one of the shooters from the previous firefight and confirm we have KOS rights so Cloudy unloads into his back and dips before the reinforcements arrive. I stand there in my blue tracksuit like I don't know whats going on and watch Floor 11 sprint up the hill after my boy. Once they start firing I look around to see if I can take down some shooters when I spot a man in black setting up by the tree. I watch him open fire in the direction of Cloudy and Sam and at the same time Sam reports on the radio that hes taken a hit. I take no chances and run up on the OP who was actively shooting at/in the direction of my boys during a firefight which he was fully aware of and put a couple rounds in his head before dipping outta town and switching up my outfit. After a while I regroup with Cloudy, mourn the sad death of Sam and continue the war effort

TLDR: This guy shot at my guys even though they weren't the ones who were shooting at him. And after realising there was a firefight he decided to run into the middle of the gunfight and start firing his own shots, pretty sure that is NVFL?

Edit: OP if you want to talk it out in teamspeak I will be in for another hour or so, just poke me

Edited by ThatRyanGuy

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Roland Woods POV:

So me Ryan and Sam , roll up to Kabanino and see 3 of the F11 boys , since I still had KoS rights from the previous fight. I try to ID the targets since , I don't want to kill anyone who wasn't apart of it, I move through and go to the church where I meet one more of them and ID the clothes , I speak to the man so , I could voice ID aswell to check if it's the man 100%. He responds to me , I let him move a bit more down the hill , so I could dip before the others show up. I spray the man down  , then all hell breaks loose, so me and Ryan decide to dip out and change clothes. 

Edited by Cloudy
PoV

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Connect/Disconnect logs:

Spoiler

 

19:03:55 | Player "Frank Eugine" is connected (id=)
19:50:48 | Player "Frank Eugine"(id=) has been disconnected

19:11:58 | Player "Vlad Zykov" is connected (id=)
20:01:24 | Player "Vlad Zykov"(id=) has been disconnected

18:15:50 | Player "Ryan Robertson" is connected (id=)
20:55:14 | Player "Ryan Robertson"(id=) has been disconnected

19:17:52 | Player "Roland Woods" is connected (id=)
20:57:17 | Player "Roland Woods"(id=) has been disconnected

 


Chat logs:

Spoiler

 

19:30:52 | Chat("Frank Eugine"(id=)): *You notice that frank doesnt have a right eye, covered by a patch, neither a right hand, covered by a bandage*
19:32:47 | Chat("Frank Eugine"(id=)): *You notice that frank doesnt have a right eye, covered by a patch, neither a right hand, covered by a bandage*

19:25:33 | Chat("Roland Woods"(id=)): *Tosses him one of his various radios*

 


Hit logs:

Spoiler

 

19:39:41 | "Ryan Robertson(uid=) SHOT Frank Eugine(uid=) by M4A1 into leftarm."
19:39:42 | "Ryan Robertson(uid=) SHOT Frank Eugine(uid=) by M4A1 into RightArm."

19:38:53 | "Roland Woods(uid=) SHOT Maxim Shuka(uid=) by AugSteyr into RightArm."
19:38:53 | "Roland Woods(uid=) SHOT Maxim Shuka(uid=) by AugSteyr into RightLeg."

 


Kill logs:

Spoiler

19:39:42 | Player "Frank Eugine"(id=) has been killed by player "Ryan Robertson"(id=)



Everyone in the logs has posted a POV or on the report itself. 

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10 hours ago, ThatRyanGuy said:

Name: Ryan Robertson (pretty sure I'm the guy who shot him)

Affiliation: A World Without Borders

POV:

So I'm in Kabanino with the guerrilla squad ( @Cloudy and @Sam Fields ) and we spot a group of Floor 11 in the centre of town. We know that Cloudy and Sam have valid KOS rights on some of the members but we hang around to make sure we do not kill any of their members invalidly. We spot one of the shooters from the previous firefight and confirm we have KOS rights so Cloudy unloads into his back and dips before the reinforcements arrive. I stand there in my blue tracksuit like I don't know whats going on and watch Floor 11 sprint up the hill after my boy. Once they start firing I look around to see if I can take down some shooters when I spot a man in black setting up by the tree. I watch him open fire in the direction of Cloudy and Sam and at the same time Sam reports on the radio that hes taken a hit. I take no chances and run up on the OP who was actively shooting at/in the direction of my boys during a firefight which he was fully aware of and put a couple rounds in his head before dipping outta town and switching up my outfit. After a while I regroup with Cloudy, mourn the sad death of Sam and continue the war effort

TLDR: This guy shot at my guys even though they weren't the ones who were shooting at him. And after realising there was a firefight he decided to run into the middle of the gunfight and start firing his own shots, pretty sure that is NVFL?

Edit: OP if you want to talk it out in teamspeak I will be in for another hour or so, just poke me

Yeah sure we can talk it out later today if you want, i was just mad cos i thought i was helping the floor 11 guys, and i didnt walk into the firefight as ive explained i walked up to see the dead body then shots started being popped off so i took cover then a shot landed right next to my foot from the hill, so i tried to suppress him. Anyhow it was a massive clusterfuck.

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2 hours ago, Kyle_Jones said:

Yeah sure we can talk it out later today if you want, i was just mad cos i thought i was helping the floor 11 guys, and i didnt walk into the firefight as ive explained i walked up to see the dead body then shots started being popped off so i took cover then a shot landed right next to my foot from the hill, so i tried to suppress him. Anyhow it was a massive clusterfuck.

Yeah urite it was a cluster, poke me if you wanna talk about it later but if you were helping floor 11 that was exactly the reason I killed you 

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15 hours ago, Kyle_Jones said:

i decided to open fire to protect myself, next minute i just get lit up from my right side

You decided to file this report why? You joined in a firefight which had nothing to do with you. You and your allies started shooting at people you had no KOS rights on, get domed, then post a report? I don't see any rule breaks except from on your side.

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6 hours ago, Castiel said:

You decided to file this report why? You joined in a firefight which had nothing to do with you. You and your allies started shooting at people you had no KOS rights on, get domed, then post a report? I don't see any rule breaks except from on your side.

if you haven't read already, i did say that i took a shot from Ryans guys, which i then took cover and started supressing them to keep their heads down, i personally thought that they had mistaken me for a Floor 11 and were firing upon me, i didnt have a clue what was going on but i seemed to have cleared it up with Ryan, turns out it was just a misunderstanding and he was totally in the right to kill me. I made this report because i thought i got shot by one of the Floor 11 guys. But anyhow if an admin could close this thread me and ryan have sorted it out :)

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The Staff team have decided to leave this open and resume the investigation into this report. A verdict will be issued in due time. 

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Verdict

Frank Eugine - Attempted KOS - Guilty

Vlad Zykov - Attempted KOS - Guilty

Ryan Robertson - KOS - Not Guilty


Conclusion

Staff has taken a look at all the evidence supplied, and also reviewed all of the POVs and have come to a solid conclusion regarding this case. 

Frank and Vlad. You arrived in Kabanino whilst role playing with some of the people there, taking a walk into the center of town. Upon arrival, you are greeted with several new faces that you had just met and start exchanging small talk. After a few moments, 3 AUG shots are fired from behind you towards the west side of town. Without knowing any of the details, you both decide to venture up to see what happened. You are then welcomed by a dead corpse lying on the floor. You both then still carry on jogging towards it and then start to witness a man from Floor 11 firing away from you and towards a member of A World Without Borders, seen at (01:45) of the video evidence.

Soon  after that, Ryan in retaliation starts to fire upon the Floor 11 members up the hill, and bare in mind that the Floor 11 members were at the Church up the road. You both hear the snaps of the assault rifles and automatically assume the shots are upon yourself and act on it. After taking cover, Frank immediately lines up a shot before taking shots on the shooter. Shortly after, Vlad also lines up a shot and starts to suppress the target. Bare in mind that you both had started firing upon them before receiving any shots back, clearly seen in the video. Soon after, Frank is then shot and after some time, Vlad puts his weapon on his back and approaches them with his hands up. 

Now, to get into the gritty details. You both assume that shots were being fired upon you by the snaps heard by the shooter. This was a bad assumption. The snaps were shots being fired upon Floor 11 and because you were in the vicinity of the shooter, it appeared that you were taking shots. If you see in the video, the shooter was quite elevated, and ricochets would have been heard if the shots were indeed on you. No ricochets were heard throughout the short video. Frank, you also state this in one of your posts. 

Post #16:

16 hours ago, Kyle_Jones said:

i thought i was helping the floor 11 guys

You may well of been helping them, but you had no rights at all too. You had only just met them and you were not in a group of them. You also did not have any line of sight from where the incident occurred. You would of only obtained rights through being in a group with Floor 11 of perhaps rolling with them as a dynamic and seeing the situation unravel. Because of this, you will be both be issued with the punishment Attempted KOS. It states KOS sharing very clearly in the rules which we will quote below:

Quote
  • 7.3 Kill rights are only shared between group members if the group members are within 500m of the situation taking place or have a direct line of sight.

We are not impressed with the fact you both ran into a clear firefight. It would have perhaps been understandable if you had not seen the dead corpse, but you still stay and loiter before hearing the shots. You both had no knowledge behind how many people you were opposed against, where they were or what advantages they had upon you. This could be classified as NVFL, and we warn you both not to approach a situation like this again. 

Another point we would like to pick up is the suppressing fire. Even though you state in your POVs that you had no intent to kill, you were both still wielding a large assault rifles, firing numerous rounds at them. You cannot do this without the proper rights, even if the intent is not to kill. In this situation you both should have fell back and got the full picture before acting. You could have possibly located the shooter and initiated upon them and took them hostage, aiding Floor 11 with proper rights. This could potentially then lead to some more Roleplay between the groups and could have developed a relationship between yourselves and Floor 11. You could have also not risked your lives by running into an ongoing firefight and evaded the town, not putting your lives at risk. We urge you take these points into consideration for future encounters similar to this one. 

Lastly, we will also mention that Ryan is not guilty of KOS as you are aware because the proper rights were obtained by him when you fired upon him. Like stated above, even though they were suppressing shots, he still acted appropriately and achieved legitimate kills. 


Outcome


Frank Eugine - Attempted KOS - Guilty, 1 Banstrike and 3 Days issued

Vlad Zykov - Attempted KOS - Guilty, 1 Banstrike and 3 Days issued

Ryan Robertson - KOS - Not Guilty, No Action Taken

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