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Kerkkoh

Group Takeovers

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Kerkkoh    44

So what's been going on today has gotten me fairly worried and I think it needs to be discussed.

Earlier today, I wanted to know where the line is drawn when taking over people's groups. I've seen group threads, of course, being transferred and I've myself had a group thread transferred from me to someone else. When I was transferring this group away from myself, I had to obviously get the permission from the person it was transferred to, and it was a mutual agreement.

Today, I saw a group owner getting permanently banned after his group members weren't happy with him archiving it. This among some other things I saw and heard, led me to believe that his group members were involved in his ban somehow. This itself seemed very sketchy to me, but if the ban was rightful, there wasn't a problem. I expected that the group would get archived and that would be it, but then I noticed the group's members taking the thread over.

Maybe this has happened before, but it seems so bizarre to me that people can take over someone's group thread after they have been permanently banned without asking for any kinds of permission. It almost seems like stealing on some level, even if the person had been banned.

Shortly after I wanted to clear it up with staff and the staff opinion was something along the lines of:

"If a group owner has been permanently banned, any group member can take the thread from them," which implies that no permission needs to be asked for taking over someone's group.

Am I the only one that thinks that this is scary? Especially with all the snaking talks going around lately, I feel like this is the perfect unwritten rule for people when they are doing hostile takeovers. For example, if I didn't like my current group leader and wanted to take the group over from him, couldn't I just record some of that golden TS3 banter or screenshot something incriminating and get him permanently banned to take over the group?

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xIO_VAPEG0D_OIx    750

If they are perma banned then they should have no more rights to the group IMO. If you're stupid enough to get banned then you can't sit and claim your rights to an internet group from the vale.

I do think that only people who were in the group should be allowed to take it over though.

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Rocco    34

This can lead to people making false reports about stuff said OOC and it might be really scary.

We gonna have a whole conspiracy going on here.

HOUSE OF CARDS?

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Doc Holiday    155

I have to agree with this. Thinking on what we talked about in TS, it doesn't make any sense to me. If the guy was permabanned for racism/harassment then that's one thing, but then going against the leader of the group to un-archive without permission. It does seem very fishy to me, especially when said leader made a leaving thread, only for him to archive his own group. Then suddenly, he is permabanned, his group un-archived, the leaving thread deleted and they just forget about it? IMO, if the remainder of the group want it un-archived they should contact the original leader as you have you remember, it was their idea, their group, with their own goals/art. I mean the guy put his heart and soul into the group, then suddenly one uprising and the whole group is in shambles. Strange timessssss.

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Grimnir    587

That's the way to spread paranoia in this community.

I can basically just join a group, record everything until I got enough evidence to snake on the leader and take over.

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I think it's a shame that when the original group owner gets banned his own creation can be taken from him with no questions asked. Though no outsider can do this since the group rights transfer to the one who was second in charge of the group originally. Unless that outsider is granted the permission from the second in charge now. My opinion is that if you want to transfer a group to yourself and lead it, you'd have to get the permission from the old leader regardless if he is banned or not.

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Storm    203

To be honest, I'd be mad af if I got banned and someone took over my group without my permission. Banned or not, the guy put time and effort into his group only to have it snatched from him. If he gets unbanned, what then? Does he get it back?

On the other hand, at least it's not permanently archived.

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Rocco    34

On the other hand, at least it's not permanently archived.

However what would happen to the group Idea and Name. Like the owner get perma banned then can nobody ever use that idea or name again?

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Banned or not the group is the founder's intellectual property. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever that his group idea and media can just be taken over by another member just because he was in the group. That's some next level nonsense right there.

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Rocco    34

Banned or not the group is the founder's intellectual property. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever that his group idea and media can just be taken over by another member just because he was in the group. That's some next level nonsense right there.

I agree It just seems like if this is the case a lot of group ideas can be "claimed" and then no one can use them if they get banned.

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xIO_VAPEG0D_OIx    750

On the other hand, at least it's not permanently archived.

However what would happen to the group Idea and Name. Like the owner get perma banned then can nobody ever use that idea or name again?

No that happens if staff deem your group to be causing to much trouble etc.

-

A permanently archived group survivor.

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Rocco    34

However what would happen to the group Idea and Name. Like the owner get perma banned then can nobody ever use that idea or name again?

No that happens if staff deem your group to be causing to much trouble etc.

Oh. Ok I was just worried about all the ideas for groups that could be lost because of this.

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Kerkkoh    44

Banned or not the group is the founder's intellectual property. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever that his group idea and media can just be taken over by another member just because he was in the group. That's some next level nonsense right there.

This is exactly my opinion on this. Even if copyright laws don't apply too hard on the forums I feel like it is still the founder's intellectual property.

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William    398

Looking into it more, it is pretty messed up. You can be a recruit, record a bunch of shit, and then possibly get the leader banned, thus taking over the group or transferring its leadership to someone you feel is more fit for the job. However, you always have to be aware of what you say with other people in the channel that you just met.

It's definitely up for discussion, maybe this can be brought up during that community meeting?

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Zero    277

Like someone has already said, it is that persons intellectual property, whether or not it was created on an internet website doesn't matter. There are laws pertaining to intellectual property, if someone claimed something I wrote for a book I was making as their own, then I would take legal action because it is my property, my ideas, ect. I don't really care about what led to the removal of the community member (even though it seems pretty strange), the lore he has written is his and his alone, if he wishes for someone else not to have it, then you need to abide by his wishes.

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People jumped into the story making their own things up before understanding what actually happened. The three leaders put time and effort into the group. Artimus originally owned the group thread because mordecai couldn't at the time and edited it and helped out a lot in the making of this. Bryan and Swilly both helped aswell on the thread and contributed to the cause of the group. Do not believe until you hear two sides.

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Kerkkoh    44

People jumped into the story making their own things up before understanding what actually happened. The three leaders put time and effort into the group. Artimus originally owned the group thread and edited it and helped out a lot in the making of this. Bryan and Swilly both helped aswell on the thread and contributed to the cause of the group. Do not believe until you hear two sides.

This thread is simply not just about the group you were in and took over for a while. This is a general discussion about the subject of people being able to take over groups like this and why is it like this.

For example the staff opinion

"If a group owner has been permanently banned, any group member can take the thread from them"

Is the thing that worries me here more than what happen with the group you were in.

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Grimnir    587

People jumped into the story making their own things up before understanding what actually happened. The three leaders put time and effort into the group. Artimus originally owned the group thread because mordecai couldn't at the time and edited it and helped out a lot in the making of this. Bryan and Swilly both helped aswell on the thread and contributed to the cause of the group. Do not believe until you hear two sides.

I know you are not involved in the ban, but I will quote you for the purpose of giving the reader the context of my post.

So does that mean the racism and hate he was apparently reported for (even though he was banned for blackmail) happend today and never before. Are you saying the report had bothing to do with the fact that he wanted to archive the group and take a break? If you want to share your side feel free.

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swilly    13

I feel like if someone gets banned he should have no more rights to the group, as he is not a part of the community anymore. The only time the group should be transferred instead of archived, is when other members of the group put in a reasonable amount of effort in getting the group off the ground.

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Guest

People jumped into the story making their own things up before understanding what actually happened. The three leaders put time and effort into the group. Artimus originally owned the group thread and edited it and helped out a lot in the making of this. Bryan and Swilly both helped aswell on the thread and contributed to the cause of the group. Do not believe until you hear two sides.

This thread is simply not just about the group you were in and took over for a while. This is a general discussion about the subject of people being able to take over groups like this and why is it like this.

But the making of this thread is because of what happened. I had NO involvement in what happened to Mordecai. He did nothing to me and I saw the evidence that was given to staff and it wasn't nice. Many people helped with the group. Swilly, Lonewolf, and Artimus. They all helped with the making of the group and they were given credit originally until Mordecai took them off of the credits. 13-15 people are still with us and want to continue the group and if some of us have helped majorly to the thread and the lore direction the group. We should be able to have it since we are contributors to said thread and the player is now perma-banned

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Doc Holiday    155

I feel like if someone gets banned he should have no more rights to the group, as he is not a part of the community anymore. The only time the group should be transferred instead of archived, is when other members of the group put in a reasonable amount of effort in getting the group off the ground.

But you have to remember, the OP for some groups will have done everything themselves, meaning that if they got permabanned, would any of the other members have any real right to the group, especially if some of them joined. I can understand if other members helped with running the group and leading it that it should be transferred, but I feel like the OP should be contacted in some way.

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People jumped into the story making their own things up before understanding what actually happened. The three leaders put time and effort into the group. Artimus originally owned the group thread because mordecai couldn't at the time and edited it and helped out a lot in the making of this. Bryan and Swilly both helped aswell on the thread and contributed to the cause of the group. Do not believe until you hear two sides.

I know you are not involved in the ban, but I will quote you for the purpose of giving the reader the context of my post.

So does that mean the racism and hate he was apparently reported for (even though he was banned for blackmail) happend today and never before. Are you saying the report had bothing to do with the fact that he wanted to archive the group and take a break? If you want to share your side feel free.

He archived the group because people LEFT and were kicked. Many left. I only heard about this today but I know major people in the group left so he archived the group because of the people who left.

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Rocco    34

But the making of this thread is because of what happened. I had NO involvement in what happened to Mordecai. He did nothing to me and I saw the evidence that was given to staff and it wasn't nice. Many people helped with the group. Swilly, Lonewolf, and Artimus. They all helped with the making of the group and they were given credit originally until Mordecai took them off of the credits. 13-15 people are still with us and want to continue the group and if some of us have helped majorly to the thread and the lore direction the group. We should be able to have it since we are contributors to said thread and the player is now perma-banned

We are kinda getting off the topic of this thread and should probably stray from talking about the above events.

Just looking out for others here. We all have our own opinions and should just keep them to ourselves. whats done is done.

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Kerkkoh    44

People jumped into the story making their own things up before understanding what actually happened. The three leaders put time and effort into the group. Artimus originally owned the group thread and edited it and helped out a lot in the making of this. Bryan and Swilly both helped aswell on the thread and contributed to the cause of the group. Do not believe until you hear two sides.

This thread is simply not just about the group you were in and took over for a while. This is a general discussion about the subject of people being able to take over groups like this and why is it like this.

But the making of this thread is because of what happened. I had NO involvement in what happened to Mordecai. He did nothing to me and I saw the evidence that was given to staff and it wasn't nice. Many people helped with the group. Swilly, Lonewolf, and Artimus. They all helped with the making of the group and they were given credit originally until Mordecai took them off of the credits. 13-15 people are still with us and want to continue the group and if some of us have helped majorly to the thread and the lore direction the group. We should be able to have it since we are contributors to said thread and the player is now perma-banned

Still saying that this thread is more about general discussion about the subject. If I would have wanted to know why your group members did a hostile takeover, I would have made a thread about that.

While it is true that what happened got me to go to the helpdesk and ask the question, what happened in your group didn't make me do anything, it was the staff opinion about groups getting taken over after the owner has been permanently banned.

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