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Voodoo

A Community Divided - Discussion

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So moral of the story, if it looks like there is some special treatment towards certain peoples ban appeals then you probably don't have all the information. So don't go making assumptions about shit that you don't know about because you are just going to look like an idiot.

I appreciate you calling me a idiot. Thank you.

With you ban appeals you provided evidence that your ARMAII key was "stolen". You were in contact with the Admin team after your first and second ban appeal was denied. As you stated "Don't make assumptions on shit you don't know". I won't make assumptions on your bans. As I don't have the emails you sent to the Admin team about your global ban. For all I know you cheated. Or actually got your CD Key stolen. Which I don't know how/if you managed to do that    

Yes it looks like favoritism to others as they have not been in staff and have seen what's behind the closed doors. As a lot does happen behind closed doors that I myself don't see. So when people don't understand stuff like this they make a thread and complain as they don't know what's going on and they are confused by the Admins choice.

So to me this isn't special treatment. This is called a ban appeal through emails. Many people have gotten it and many have been accepted and denied. I mean if I was you I wouldn't scream favoritism as you got unbanned from a Gloabal ban. I would be grateful for this.

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Take a look at Mr. Shanks post, he worded what I was trying to get at a lot better than myself.

Not really you're talking about two different things. Your advocating that people with less desirable characteristics, demeanor or a negative attitude to a report get a harsher punishment than those who are nicer and have a more positive demeanor and acknowledge what they have done wrong. or in short:

Opinions on people can change punishments AKA bias.

Mr shanks is talking about how he can call his friend a cunt and not get reported because of his relationship to the person hes doing it to it not the same thing.

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So moral of the story, if it looks like there is some special treatment towards certain peoples ban appeals then you probably don't have all the information. So don't go making assumptions about shit that you don't know about because you are just going to look like an idiot.

I appreciate you calling me a idiot. Thank you.

With you ban appeals you provided evidence that your ARMAII key was "stolen". You were in contact with the Admin team after your first and second ban appeal was denied. As you stated "Don't make assumptions on shit you don't know". I won't make assumptions on your bans. As I don't have the emails you sent to the Admin team about your global ban. For all I know you cheated. Or actually got your CD Key stolen. Which I don't know how/if you managed to do that    

Yes it looks like favoritism to others as they have not been in staff and have seen what's behind the closed doors. As a lot does happen behind closed doors that I myself don't see. So when people don't understand stuff like this they make a thread and complain as they don't know what's going on and they are confused by the Admins choice.

So to me this isn't special treatment. This is called a ban appeal through emails. Many people have gotten it and many have been accepted and denied.

But those of us complaining, the majority are all ex-admins, ex-GMs...who have made those decisions, be behind those closed doors. We are saying, pleading, that we have seen some things that just do not fly. They didnt in our time, and they do not now. And, we are not going to let them go unsaid. No one has to agree with us. Nothing has to change, and we cant make it, but we do not have to be quiet about it.

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-snip-

-snip-

Alright, lets both go RDM someone and during our reports you act as you normally would, and I will act like a salty ass and bitch at staff through PM's so that no one else other than staff can see them. See who comes out with a better ending.

Metaphorically speaking of course.

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So moral of the story, if it looks like there is some special treatment towards certain peoples ban appeals then you probably don't have all the information. So don't go making assumptions about shit that you don't know about because you are just going to look like an idiot.

I appreciate you calling me a idiot. Thank you.

With you ban appeals you provided evidence that your ARMAII key was "stolen". You were in contact with the Admin team after your first and second ban appeal was denied. As you stated "Don't make assumptions on shit you don't know". I won't make assumptions on your bans. As I don't have the emails you sent to the Admin team about your global ban. For all I know you cheated. Or actually got your CD Key stolen. Which I don't know how/if you managed to do that    

Yes it looks like favoritism to others as they have not been in staff and have seen what's behind the closed doors. As a lot does happen behind closed doors that I myself don't see. So when people don't understand stuff like this they make a thread and complain as they don't know what's going on and they are confused by the Admins choice.

So to me this isn't special treatment. This is called a ban appeal through emails. Many people have gotten it and many have been accepted and denied.

First thing, wasn't calling you an idiot, in fact I was agreeing with you. Second thing, I didn't say that there was special treatment, I was saying that to people without proper understanding it LOOKS like special treatment. Thirdly, I just used mine as an example of not conveying the entire story to the rest of the community, thus looking like special treatment. Forthly, I know what a ban appeal through emails is, but that goes on to further my point that...I'm not going to repeat myself for a third time this fucking paragraph, you get the point. 

Also if you want to read the thread I referenced that explains the cluster fuck that was my situation, its here.

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-snip-

-snip-

Alright, lets both go RDM someone and during our reports you act as you normally would, and I will act like a salty ass and bitch at staff through PM's so that no one else other than staff can see them. See who comes out with a better ending.

Metaphorically speaking of course.

 

You will get a 5 day for RDM. Valkerion will be permabanned. That one is easy.

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Take a look at Mr. Shanks post, he worded what I was trying to get at a lot better than myself.

Not really you're talking about two different things. Your advocating that people with less desirable characteristics, demeanor or a negative attitude to a report get a harsher punishment than those who are nicer and have a more positive demeanor and acknowledge what they have done wrong. or in short:

Opinions on people can change punishments AKA bias.

Mr shanks is talking about how he can call his friend a cunt and not get reported because of his relationship to the person hes doing it to it not the same thing.

You're right, I miss interpreted what you meant. My bad,

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-snip-

-snip-

 

You will get a 5 day for RDM. Valkerion will be permabanned. That one is easy.

Dank meme

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-snip-

-snip-

Alright, lets both go RDM someone and during our reports you act as you normally would, and I will act like a salty ass and bitch at staff and lets see who comes out better in the end.

I dont think you understand what were arguing about here or maybe you do but have it twisted yes you would get a worse punishment I know that what im saying is that it shouldnt be like that. No matter how we act unless its completely unacceptable (also covered by the rules) we should get the same punishment regardless because at the end of the day its a case of RDM and thats that.

but if im being brutally honest id probably get a worse punishment because of who I am.

1. iv been in the community much longer therefore should know the rules blah blah blah

2. im not exactly well liked by many many staff

3. Iv been permabanned before

Should I get judged on those things? probably not but I do and in the end id probably end up worse than you no matter how salty you were.

You will get a 5 day for RDM. Valkerion will be permabanned. That one is easy.

Dank meme

Its a pretty dank meme but its probably closer to the truth than you might think.

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So moral of the story, if it looks like there is some special treatment towards certain peoples ban appeals then you probably don't have all the information. So don't go making assumptions about shit that you don't know about because you are just going to look like an idiot.

I appreciate you calling me a idiot. Thank you.

With you ban appeals you provided evidence that your ARMAII key was "stolen". You were in contact with the Admin team after your first and second ban appeal was denied. As you stated "Don't make assumptions on shit you don't know". I won't make assumptions on your bans. As I don't have the emails you sent to the Admin team about your global ban. For all I know you cheated. Or actually got your CD Key stolen. Which I don't know how/if you managed to do that    

Yes it looks like favoritism to others as they have not been in staff and have seen what's behind the closed doors. As a lot does happen behind closed doors that I myself don't see. So when people don't understand stuff like this they make a thread and complain as they don't know what's going on and they are confused by the Admins choice.

So to me this isn't special treatment. This is called a ban appeal through emails. Many people have gotten it and many have been accepted and denied. I mean if I was you I wouldn't scream favoritism as you got unbanned from a Gloabal ban. I would be grateful for this.

Getting cd-keys stolen was quite common for ArmA2. There was a whole market based on stolen keys. So, quite manageable for him to get his key stolen. Whether it was out of stupidity and downloading some youtube hack or something else is another matter to delve into though. If it happened at all.

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-

I did read that wrong Shank. My apologizes as I didn't understand your post. I understand that you were agreeing with me and I made myself look like a dumbass.

But yes there is a lot of stuff that is don't behind closed doors. And when people don't understand it they get heated.

I'm sorry.

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So moral of the story, if it looks like there is some special treatment towards certain peoples ban appeals then you probably don't have all the information. So don't go making assumptions about shit that you don't know about because you are just going to look like an idiot.

I appreciate you calling me a idiot. Thank you.

With you ban appeals you provided evidence that your ARMAII key was "stolen". You were in contact with the Admin team after your first and second ban appeal was denied. As you stated "Don't make assumptions on shit you don't know". I won't make assumptions on your bans. As I don't have the emails you sent to the Admin team about your global ban. For all I know you cheated. Or actually got your CD Key stolen. Which I don't know how/if you managed to do that    

Yes it looks like favoritism to others as they have not been in staff and have seen what's behind the closed doors. As a lot does happen behind closed doors that I myself don't see. So when people don't understand stuff like this they make a thread and complain as they don't know what's going on and they are confused by the Admins choice.

So to me this isn't special treatment. This is called a ban appeal through emails. Many people have gotten it and many have been accepted and denied. I mean if I was you I wouldn't scream favoritism as you got unbanned from a Gloabal ban. I would be grateful for this.

Getting cd-keys stolen was quite common for ArmA2. There was a whole market based on stolen keys. So, quite manageable for him to get his key stolen. Whether it was out of stupidity and downloading some youtube hack or something else is another matter to delve into though. If it happened at all.

Stupidity and naivety, hey it was 2012 and I wanted to play namalsk so rip me.

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No I am not aiming at anyone specific or directly Cory? But yes I spose what I said could apply to him. He got permaed for breaking a rule and then got unbanned a week later? Sure I didn't think it was worth a perma in the first place but nevertheless he got to come back after a perma ban (permanent means forever lasting)

And to answer your question on "evidence" - every member that has been permaed at one stage (I remember one situation where a person was banned and were told they broke enough rules to be permaed 3 times over and yet they were unbanned a few months later).

I am not going to accuse people and throw their names into this, I am sure they regret what they did and don't want everyone bringing it up every argument/debate.

My whole point was yes new members in some situations have more 2nd chances and a slap on the wrists instead of straight to bans so to speak, but older members have their special treatment too, just in different ways. And if you don't think so ask a previously veteran permaed banned member. That ain't special treatment being un-perma banned?

You can argue all want and definitely disagree with me, probably better people have different opinions than all be the same. just my opinion.


All summed up:

New players have more chances but once permaed they rarely ever get a chance back until like a year later minimum.

Veteran players get less chances cause they have more experience and should know better, but how many have remained Permaed? Some people here have said they have been permaed at one stage and yet they are still here.

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Being allowed back after a permanent ban isn't exactly special treatment. You go through a procedure everyone has access to and the amount of people getting their punishments adjusted or second chances are very high. And it should be. Alot of these people, like me, got banned for forum behavior, such as shitposting while having had a fairly spotless record for in-game violations. So, it's simply a matter of not joking on the forums for most of these people.

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So, it's simply a matter of not joking on the forums for most of these people.

I just want to clarify that joking and shitposting is not the same.

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So, it's simply a matter of not joking on the forums for most of these people.

I just want to clarify that joking and shitposting is not the same.

Shitposting is a matter of opinion.

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So, it's simply a matter of not joking on the forums for most of these people.

I just want to clarify that joking and shitposting is not the same.

Shitposting is a matter of opinion.

Same as a joke.

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So, it's simply a matter of not joking on the forums for most of these people.

I just want to clarify that joking and shitposting is not the same.

Eh, they can absolutely be. And often are. Does this mean that jokes are exclusively shitposts and shitposts are always jokes? No. But alot of jokes do get punished , and are by definition shitposts. I fail to see what you were trying to get at. Written from phone late late should zzzzzz

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I have not read all 13 pages of responses so I apologise now if I am repeating something that has already been said.

When it comes to handing out punishments it is not an easy task and not everyone will be happy with the outcome. What breaks a community down is inconsistency in punishments. Rule breaks are quite similar to criminal law, and I should know a little something about this as I am an attorney. A rule should be quite simple and should be drafted in the following manner.

Rule should state clearly and without double meaning what "action" is prohibited and what the punishment is for such a rule break (I think the way the current rules are drafted are clear and concise and state what punishment is dealt with if rule is broken) so no need to fix what is not broken.

Its the inconsistency that is becoming a problem and this is something that the staff need to work on to resolve. The easiest way to do this is work on a precedent basis. What this means if a certain punishment is imposed for a certain action then this is the punishment to be served on any future similar offences. One can take into account mitigating circumstances which may lessen the punishment but this should only be done if good cause is shown by the defendant.

I have personally been involved in a matter which I felt was extremely inconsistent with the dishing out of a ban. I will not be naming anyone and the issue has come and gone.

In this instance a new player whom I convinced to join our servers initiated on some players after they became hostile with his friends. In the video of the hostile RPers you can clear see they are setting up a flank before the initiation and it is clear they are aiming to do this to get KOS rights upon initiation. Initiation is dropped and my friend is sprayed by the flankers. In the process my friend gunned down and complying hostage as he got a fright and did not know who shot him he just sprayed. Now I know rules are clear you cannot kill a complying hostage and so this must be dealt with but the speed at which the initiation took place, the hostage put his hand up and the flankers shot was less than a second, again proving a baiting situation in my opinion. Also rule play over role play as the flanking party could have initiated on my friend to continue Rp instead of killing him and ending RP for him and the dead hostages.

The first thing my friend said to me was that he was reported and stands no chance as he has been reported by a hall of famer. Now in the real work if your friend has an automatic weapon pointed at him you gonna be damn sure you can kill the initiator without your friend being shot.

Anyway POV was given by my friend and he got a ban. I read the reply of the staff member and reason for banning. I also found a video of an extremely similar situation where the initiator was found not guilty and jumped into TS to discuss the banning the staff member, the response I got was a dismissive one and any further discussions regarding the baitiness of the OP group was evaded.

I believe this is what has a lot of people upset at the moment, the inconsistency and when one wishes to discuss with the staff member they do not wish to discuss their reasons and dismiss the conversation. This is the wrong approach, you need to back up your decision when questioned and refusal to do so is clear indication that you failed to apply your mind to the report at hand and have clearly made a decision on whom you like the most and not based on rule set or precedent.

This is something that Rolle and the admins will need to brainstorm about and try and come up with a plan to resolve.

Suggestion is to have a section where an aggrieved community member can lodge a formal complaint about a staff members handling of a matter and Rolle and the admins can address this. if they feel the staff member was not correct they could then issue out points similar to ban strikes and once a certain limit is reached remove this person from staff.

Anyway that is my two cents.

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Suggestion is to have a section where an aggrieved community member can lodge a formal complaint about a staff members handling of a matter and Rolle and the admins can address this. if they feel the staff member was not correct they could then issue out points similar to ban strikes and once a certain limit is reached remove this person from staff.

Anyway that is my two cents.

This is already a thing.  you can put staff feedback on the staff feedback page or message an admin or Rolle if you have complaints.  

They also have staff strikes that if a staff member is in the wrong they receive and can be removed from staff.

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I really think people are exaggerating with this "divide". No one wants to be biased or discriminate anyone, this is a gaming community, not a political warfare.

Hopefully, the community meeting will settle some of those issues people have with the staff team.

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This kind of stuff is going to pop up in every community of any kind, its what happens when you take a bunch of people and put them in a close proximity and make them interact and shit. Basic human behavior.

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I feel that a person and how he/she reflects himself through his/her own RP paints a picture OOCly to the community and it seems that people treat them either great or like shit for what kind of person their character is RP'ed out as, so I just wish that some new/old community members would realize the difference between OOC/IC and how it divides us as a whole and how it may also seem like staff dont "like" certain members more or less than others due to reports or complaints on that said individual. Basically new player=blank slate so more of a security blanket and we "old" members have less of a blanket and more of a bob-wire fence to be to corral us into and judge us from afar. Just my opinion on the matter no hard feelings or any shots fired or nuffin to the staff so just love me and lets make chernarus great again shall we!?!?!?!?!

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I wouldn't say so much 'what type of person' their character is, so much as 'how that type of person is played'. You could roll a good guy and your heroics could be pure and utter cheese. You could be a total badass, but in handcuffs being the subject of some torture scene... I don't care how badass you are, you're not immune to extreme pain. You could be a villain and just shoot people on a whim, denying any decent roleplay. A comical character standing in the middle of a town telling 'knock knock jokes'. Everything, every role needs to be credible.

New players or 'new RP'ers' have a roll to learn and adapt. That should be their top priority. If you cannot adequately RP a role, then just don't do it. Play something less eccentric until you as an RP'er have developed. Now people who have been here for a while who RP like their fresh off the 4chan etiquette class, any lack of respect they're shown doesn't surprise me. The standards aren't exactly hidden, they know better... they're just either trolling or RP'ing outside their means.

It's the same reason I won't play a little girl. Because I've no idea how to do it, my girl voice sucks and I don't understand a damn thing about little girls. I play within my means. If you play within your means, chances are you'll be damn good at it and add to a more realistic and immersive RP environment.

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I feel that a person and how he/she reflects himself through his/her own RP paints a picture OOCly to the community and it seems that people treat them either great or like shit for what kind of person their character is RP'ed out as, so I just wish that some new/old community members would realize the difference between OOC/IC and how it divides us as a whole and how it may also seem like staff dont "like" certain members more or less than others due to reports or complaints on that said individual. Basically new player=blank slate so more of a security blanket and we "old" members have less of a blanket and more of a bob-wire fence to be to corral us into and judge us from afar. Just my opinion on the matter no hard feelings or any shots fired or nuffin to the staff so just love me and lets make chernarus great again shall we!?!?!?!?!

+1, I totally agree with what you said Lego!

Some animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others. Than again, there are always going to be individuals who claim to have been discriminated or received preferential treatment based on their time here at DayZRP. I've seen people come and go over three years and TBH, I believe no-one should get preferential treatment based on how much they donate or how much they know particular individuals.

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