Jump to content
Server time: 2017-10-21, 03:29
Safe Zone: OPENING SOON

Sign in to follow this  
Thumper

NLR and YOU: A Comprehensive Discussion to an Important Rule for Roleplay

Recommended Posts

Thumper    0

The New Life Rule. Just about every single roleplay server, no matter the game being played, has a New Life Rule. This rule sometimes varies in slight ways from server to server, but it's essence does not stray too far from a singular meaning. 'When you die, you forget your memories and start a new life.'

Here at DayZRP, we employ a Partial New Life Rule. Meaning we allow players who die to remember friends, groups, and  enemies amoung some other things instead of being forced to forget everything.

Let's take a look at the rule:

9bd01ec618.png

Now, for NLR to take affect, one thing has have had to happen. You died. An event of any sort has caused your death. Whether by the hand of another player, the environment, or, sadly by a glitch (as the event is not specific and all-encompassing) you are bound to follow the NLR rule.

This means simply that anything leading up to and/or causing your death must be forgotten. You cannot return to the area for the time allotted, nor can you return to whatever situation was transpiring. Not a roleplay session, not a firefight, and not even a hostage situation, even if the hostages are moved to a new location. No, unfortunately that situation is over for you because of NLR. Sometimes it sucks but to avoid a rule break, you should just move right on.

Now, of course our great staff team enjoy roleplay above all else. If you seek permission from the people involved, or witnessed the event, along with a staff member GM or higher, in the spirit of fair play and roleplay, NLR could possibly be forgiven to finish out that 'oh so important situation'. But, seek that permission from a GM or higher first, because noone is above the rules.

Lets have a look at some report verdicts that back up the rule:

[s2] NLR infraction attempt - Vybor Military Base

Due to the buggy nature of Dayz SA we do not have the proof to know if something was a glitch death

or was in fact a legit death, so we do not allow under ANY circumstance for people to return to their

body and that will continue from now on. If you die, you can not return to a radius of 1km of your

body within a time period of 90mins.

S1 NLR, BadRP Elektro

yoou have to remember that this is not a regular server but a private one. It is your job to remember

we have rules to follow and that they are enforced all the time. Here it seems that you forgot this and

ran back to the body of where you were killed.

It can be seen here in the rules that you are not allowed to return to the body as there are certain

rules to follow:

S2 - Bad RP, NLR, NVFL.  (Red, 6/28/15)

The rule breaks are clear here. When you are playing a character, you must refrain from using OOC

terms such as. Saying things like, "I just spawned here" is not okay. Additionally when you do respawn

after being killed. You are required to stay away from the place where you died. The minimal distance

between your new body and your old one should be 1km (1000 meters)

Last thing would be the NLR. When your character dies, you lose all memories of the events that led

up to your death. So you as a player will not RP your character remembering your killers. This is to

refrain what clearly happened in this situation; constant hostilities between groups based on an

action that happened on a previous playthrough.

S2 Dolina - Violation of NLR  (Jm Von Cat, 7/10/15)

you returned to the scene of your previous death before the 90 minute timer had expired as is

required per our current rule set here. Under no circumstances is anyone allowed to break NLR, even

for role play purposes.

Despite your clan mates RPing out your injury you must wait the full 90 minutes before returning to

the 1000m area around the site of your death, with that in mind they could have treated your head

injury and let you "rest" until timer had expired, thus allowing your return to the location without

breaching any rules.

NLR Rule  (Red, 7/9/15)

After seeing the evidence and reading the statements made by the accused, Staff has come to the

conclusion that Isaac has indeed somewhat broken NLR. Now in this case, Staff takes into

consideration that you met up with someone whom you previously had a fun RP experience with. In

your excitement you decided that you'd ask in OOC if your friend wanted to team up with you again.

OOC should always be used for emergency things such as bugs happening in game or telling someone

that you need to go due to RL. Other exceptions such as pointing out a rulebreak are allowed too.

And of course, remember that you cannot remember events that led up to your death from a

different character or a previous life.

S2 | NLR | Polana   (Rick, 7/19/15)

The NLR rule is more then just a 1k radius. More then that, you also may not rejoin the same situation

that resulted in your death.

Having your friends tell you about previous hostilities is just a work around. OOC, you still know that it

s revolving around the same hostilities that resulted in your death. You should have steered clear of

the entire situation, until both sides had disengaged from the fight. Just because your friends gave

you a small amount of IC info to go off of, doesn't mean you can justify it. By re-engaging the same

people, you break the new life rule.

S2 KOS/Metagaming/Possible NLR Dolina  (Echo, 7/27/15)

You clearly broke NLR when you came back to Dolina, even though you died at 1km away from where

you died the first time, you came back relatively quick and ended up killing him. Now you claim that

you heard him talking about a robbery, which is why you shot him. First of all, even if that is the case,

it is not a valid reason to kill them. Second, you killed the OP without making contact. Since you had

died, you have no recollection of him or his group, which makes your killing of him KOS.

As you can plainly see, staff have always upheld that you cannot return, no matter what, no matter the cause of your death, or the situation you were in.

I hope this litte discussion has shed some light on the Rule of NLR. Happy Roleplaying everyone!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nihoolious    1248

Well considering recent statements from staff, an amendment should be added to the rule saying someone can return to a situation after death as long as it is 1.5km away from the location of their death and they have permission from those involved. I personally think this is how it should have been anyways but it was never written in the rules I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mental    0

I wrote this up for your last thread but it had been closed before i could post, nor have i actually bothered reading the whole thread, so keep that in mind when you read this.

We push for RolePlay over RulePlay. Alex here died to a glitch, and got permission from the other party to return and continue the situation. You should know by now that if the other party says it's okay, then it's okay. It's the same when we close reports if requested - if theres a rulebreak involved we explain that but close the report without punishments.

Let me ask you this. Not just you Thumper, but all those who went on the feedback thread to complain about this situation. If Alex had not been a staff member in this situation, would this thread even exist? Personally, I think not. I think a lot of the time the same group of people post on the feedback thread is to either complain about verdicts, or to complain about staff members breaking rules in game. When it comes to verdicts, everyone has a different opinion and not everybody will agree. That is why we have thread notes and multiple GM's and/or admins working on reports. The fact that you disagree with the verdict, is not a reason to come and complain about it on the staff feedback thread. That thread is for staff feedback, not to complain about verdicts you disagree with.

Secondly. A staff member breaking rules in game has nothing to do with their staff work. It does not reflect their ability to do staff work nor does it cause them any repercussions within the staff team (depending on the circumstances of course). Due to this, there is no reason (at least IMO) to go on the staff feedback thread and complain that you think a staff member broke an in game rule. If they did, then they get hit with the standard punishment, just like everybody else. You do not need to post on the staff feedback thread about it, as that thread is to give constructive feedback on how staff members can improve their work.

With that being said. It would be nice if you could just have some trust in the staff team, and to stop nitpicking and demotivating us every time you get the opportunity. I say demotivating because every time something like this happens it honestly makes some of us think, 'why do i bother?'. Before you say 'feedback is feedback' or something similar, feedback is constructive and helps us improve. Complaining about things you disagree with is neither constructive nor feedback.

Good day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thumper    0

I wrote this up for your last thread but it had been closed before i could post, so keep that in mind when you read this.

We push for RolePlay over RulePlay. Alex here died to a glitch, and got permission from the other party to return and continue the situation. You should know by now that if the other party says it's okay, then it's okay. It's the same when we close reports if requested - if theres a rulebreak involved we explain that but close the report without punishments.

Let me ask you this. Not just you Thumper, but all those who went on the feedback thread to complain about this situation. If Alex had not been a staff member in this situation, would this thread even exist? Personally, I think not. I think a lot of the time the same group of people post on the feedback thread is to either complain about verdicts, or to complain about staff members breaking rules in game. When it comes to verdicts, everyone has a different opinion and not everybody will agree. That is why we have thread notes and multiple GM's and/or admins working on reports. The fact that you disagree with the verdict, is not a reason to come and complain about it on the staff feedback thread. That thread is for staff feedback, not to complain about verdicts you disagree with.

Secondly. A staff member breaking rules in game has nothing to do with their staff work. It does not reflect their ability to do staff work nor does it cause them any repercussions within the staff team (depending on the circumstances of course). Due to this, there is no reason (at least IMO) to go on the staff feedback thread and complain that you think a staff member broke an in game rule. If they did, then they get hit with the standard punishment, just like everybody else. You do not need to post on the staff feedback thread about it, as that thread is to give constructive feedback on how staff members can improve their work.

With that being said. It would be nice if you could just have some trust in the staff team, and to stop nitpicking and demotivating us every time you get the opportunity. I say demotivating because every time something like this happens it honestly makes some of us think, 'why do i bother?'. Before you say 'feedback is feedback' or something similar, feedback is constructive and helps us improve. Complaining about things you disagree with is neither constructive nor feedback.

Good day.

The problem though Mental, is that I am not complaining, nor nitpicking. I'm pointing out major inconsistancies and issues within the staff team, a verdict, or general attitude. Which are not opinion, they are fact. If those facts are demotivating the team, I'm sorry. Its probably time to hang it up, move on and let new blood have a try if the critiques are too much. I do what I do, because for some crazy reason, I still care. Its not hard to ask that the Team who are to issue verdicts on rule breaks actually know and understand the rules they are to enforce? I didn't think so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
isocade    90

I've always ran servers, communities, and staff teams with the concept of; "If you can't enforce a rule, or if you enforce a rule too strongly, then it needs to be either re-written or removed."

This is a case in which it applies.

Inconsistencies with rules and rules that're too strict are completely unacceptable, and from my experience, have no place in any kind of roleplay community or server. They bring up too many unnecessary barriers and too many loopholes that people can take advantage of depending on the situation they use it in, or the wording they choose to tell it in.

Unwritten rules or revisions to the rules that either 1; Aren't announced or, 2; Not allowed to be shown to the public yet directly affect the public, should not be held to any standard whatsoever. The only exceptions are very clear differences in rules that directly impact only the staff, for example, an activity rule.

Inconsistencies with the application of rules are unacceptable and make the staff look like amateurs rather than professionals. This negatively impacts the overall community and server. Unwritten rules can effectively confuse and mislead people as they are told something is done one way when in reality it is done another way. This makes the staff look unreliable, impulsive, and manipulative. This in turn, negatively impacts the community and server.

As part of the staff team, you want to minimize the negatives of your community and server, and ensure that people see the best you have to offer. If someone were to sift around through the NLR reports much like Thumper did, they'd see a negative aspect of the server and this may change their opinion and behavior, causing them to lose interest and motivation in using the server and community to its full potential.

Please do the best and most within your power to correct the mistakes and errors that have been made, or build a new system in which future mistakes and errors will be prevented. A new rule set, as it is currently being developed, may or may not help in this. Given that the problem lies within the rule application itself and not the rules, then there's a problem with the people enforcing the rules rather than the rules themselves.

Obviously that's a generalization, which is not a nice thing to do. However, anyone who properly applies the rules, good on you, you deserve a pat on the back, and anyone who doesn't properly apply the rules, that's not good, but you can improve very easily. Analyze your own work and cross-check it by analyzing the work of other staff members or asking directly for feedback amongst other staff members. It's not being weak, it's improving the quality of your work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
   87

A staff member breaking rules in game has nothing to do with their staff work.

Will all due respect, I strongly disagree. I do agree with pretty much everything else you said (OOC permissions SHOULD carry a lot of weight, as the priority is always roleplay over ruleplay and sometimes we have to cope for DayZ's bugs and limitations). But if a staff member - someone in authority whose job it is to enforce the rules as part of a commitment to improving and maintaining a high standard of behavior - disregards the rules, then IMO they have shown that they either disagree with the rule or just don't care. Both of which cast in doubt their ability to hold such a position of responsibility.

Again, this is a general sentiment, has nothing to do with the specific situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Frosty    0

taken from the old post

Are you serious? 'SURROUNDING THE EVENT' that led to your death, memories are lost. You lose the memory. That would include but not limited to the situation. ...


If you get permission to log out before the 30 minute timer, are you not technically breaking Combat Logging? Of course, but noone has yet to be punished for it.

Just because a punishment doesnt go out doesn't mean a rule break didnt happen.

So you want to punish people for getting permission to come back after dying from a glitch? Or to log out from a firefight because you have work tomorrow ect.

I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. We don't need to follow the rules like there the Ten Commandments.

If you get permission to do something, than no one should be punished because nothing bad happened. Seems like a useless ban to me if you ban someone for something like that IMO.

I didnt say that. I said it was a rule break. People break rules everyday and dont get punished even if they do happen to get reported. I just want to point out its a rule break. Nothing more.

I'dd like you to respond to this statement for me, as the last thread was closed.

Oookayy... So the point of this thread was to say, that even when you get permission to do something, you're breaking the rules? Well I guess you're right, but is something going to change? Because if you take away the permission to do things like log out or come back after dying from a battle eye kick in cuffs, you're gonna have people get pissed off.

It's common sense Thumper. The rules are flexible for a reason. Some people want to log out because their tired and should be allowed to ask for permission(whether they get it or not). It doesn't matter if it's a rule break.

if this thread is different from the last one, than I apologize. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thumper    0

taken from the old post

So you want to punish people for getting permission to come back after dying from a glitch? Or to log out from a firefight because you have work tomorrow ect.

I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. We don't need to follow the rules like there the Ten Commandments.

If you get permission to do something, than no one should be punished because nothing bad happened. Seems like a useless ban to me if you ban someone for something like that IMO.

I didnt say that. I said it was a rule break. People break rules everyday and dont get punished even if they do happen to get reported. I just want to point out its a rule break. Nothing more.

I'dd like you to respond to this statement for me, as the last thread was closed.

Oookayy... So the point of this thread was to say, that even when you get permission to do something, you're breaking the rules? Well I guess you're right, but is something going to change? Because if you take away the permission to do things like log out or come back after dying from a battle eye kick in cuffs, you're gonna have people get pissed off.

It's common sense Thumper. The rules are flexible for a reason. Some people want to log out because their tired and should be allowed to ask for permission(whether they get it or not). It doesn't matter if it's a rule break.

if this thread is different from the last one, than I apologize. 

Im not asking for anyone to get punished or take away asking for permission. No one said anything about it. I'm saying that people, community members and staff, need to be aware of the rule, what it means, and  comprehend it's  meaning. At no time I have stated anything about punishments or taking away the need for OOC permissions. Logging out before the 30 minute timer is combat logging. Any  time you die, no matter how you died, invokes NLR. Doesnt matter if permission was granted or not. Nothing less, nothing more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rick    19

I think most people are missing the point here. Thumper doesn't want to go on some witch hunt for bans and destroy the staff team. All he's doing is pointing out an inconsistency in the rules that apparently hasn't been noticed until now. 

Rather than for staff to see this and address it, whether through an affirmative statement of the rules, or a clarification there of, they're acting like it's not there. I don't really see why its so hard for a clarification as to when/why the interpretation of the rule changed, and how it will be enforced going forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Frosty    0

snip

Im not asking for anyone to get punished or take away asking for permission. No one said anything about it. I'm saying that people, community members and staff, need to be aware of the rule, what it means, and  comprehend it's  meaning. At no time I have stated anything about punishments or taking away the need for OOC permissions. Logging out before the 30 minute timer is combat logging. Any  time you die, no matter how you died, invokes NLR. Doesnt matter if permission was granted or not. Nothing less, nothing more.

Well if people are not aware of the rule, than they would get reported for NLR. People who read the rules already know(Or should know) what NLR means, and what it implies.

Again, I think you just made this thread because if you get permissions, than it does not matter, because its still a rule break. Like in the report Alex was in.

Taken for the last sentence in your post - "Any  time you die, no matter how you died, invokes NLR. Doesn't matter if permission was granted or not. Nothing less, nothing more."

Yet you say that getting permissions is alright?

Taken from the OP - Now, of course our great staff team enjoy roleplay above all else. If you seek permission from the people involved, or witnessed the event, along with a staff member GM or higher, in the spirit of fair play and roleplay, NLR could possibly be forgiven to finish out that 'oh so important situation'. But, seek that permission from a GM or higher first, because noone is above the rules.

what are you trying to accomplish then, Thumper? Do you want something to change, because all of the people who look at this thread should or already know what NLR is. If they don't they can look at the rules.

Are you trying to get the rules on the rule page to be more fleshed out? Because I can support that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thumper    0

snip

Im not asking for anyone to get punished or take away asking for permission. No one said anything about it. I'm saying that people, community members and staff, need to be aware of the rule, what it means, and  comprehend it's  meaning. At no time I have stated anything about punishments or taking away the need for OOC permissions. Logging out before the 30 minute timer is combat logging. Any  time you die, no matter how you died, invokes NLR. Doesnt matter if permission was granted or not. Nothing less, nothing more.

Well if people are not aware of the rule, than they would get reported for NLR. People who read the rules already know(Or should know) what NLR means, and what it implies.

Again, I think you just made this thread because if you get permissions, than it does not matter, because its still a rule break. Like in the report Alex was in.

Taken for the last sentence in your post - "Any  time you die, no matter how you died, invokes NLR. Doesn't matter if permission was granted or not. Nothing less, nothing more."

Yet you say that getting permissions is alright?

Taken from the OP - Now, of course our great staff team enjoy roleplay above all else. If you seek permission from the people involved, or witnessed the event, along with a staff member GM or higher, in the spirit of fair play and roleplay, NLR could possibly be forgiven to finish out that 'oh so important situation'. But, seek that permission from a GM or higher first, because noone is above the rules.

what are you trying to accomplish then, Thumper? Do you want something to change, because all of the people who look at this thread should or already know what NLR is. If they don't they can look at the rules.

Are you trying to get the rules on the rule page to be more fleshed out? Because I can support that.

I'm trying to get people to comprehend and understand what they read. I believe I answered your questions already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rolle    2957

I think most people are missing the point here. Thumper doesn't want to go on some witch hunt for bans and destroy the staff team. All he's doing is pointing out an inconsistency in the rules that apparently hasn't been noticed until now. 

Rather than for staff to see this and address it, whether through an affirmative statement of the rules, or a clarification there of, they're acting like it's not there. I don't really see why its so hard for a clarification as to when/why the interpretation of the rule changed, and how it will be enforced going forward.

I already explained that in the previous thread - "The rule breaks and reports will continue to be judged by the staff team on case to case basis, just like they always have been.". In some cases the NLR will be punished like normal, in others it will be left alone if we judge that it was for example for the better of RP. The rules are general guidelines to follow, from which the staff can always make an exception, and not only admins (see extenuating circumstances in the rules). I myself and proably most others like working like that because it prevents any kind of abuse of rule grey areas from taking place, as there will never be a situation where someone is not punished for something bad because "it's not written in the rules anywhere", or we have to punish for something despite that thing being a realistic and by our judgement generally acceptable thing to do with fair play in mind.

This "consistency" you speak of has never been there, every case is unique and up to interpretation by the GM team handling it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rick    19

snip

I remember consistency being stressed when I was a GM, unless I recall incorrectly. When I say consistency, I don't mean ruling every case the exact same way for certain rule breaks, just ones that are similar. The point being raised, is that there really wasn't anything different between dying to a glitch previously and now; it was always strictly forbidden to go back, regardless of circumstances. Now it was ruled that you can per staff permission. I'm not saying I disagree with the choice, as to the contrary, I agree with it. What I am saying, is that if you tell people under no circumstances can you do something for a long time, then randomly say "well, you can under certain circumstances", its kind of confusing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Carlosdmc    0

I think OP tried to clarify that even when you have permission by the parties involved or GMs, to go back into a situation in favor of Roleplay, because you died at the hands of a glitch or Battleye Kick. A rule is still being broken.

And that's it, he's not looking for blood and chaos, he is just pointing it out.

In my opinion though, I believe this thread to be kind off unnecessary, as it's just adding more wood to an already well stoked fire. People new or veteran to the community should know what NLR means and how it works.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thumper    0

I think OP tried to clarify that even when you have permission by the parties involved or GMs, to go back into a situation in favor of Roleplay, because you died at the hands of a glitch or Battleye Kick. A rule is still being broken.

And that's it, he's not looking for blood and chaos, he is just pointing it out.

In my opinion though, I believe this thread to be kind off unnecessary, as it's just adding more wood to an already well stoked fire. People new or veteran to the community should know what NLR means and how it works.

Its necessary and essential to point out misconceptions and misunderstandings between staff and community. We all need to be on the same level when it comes to fair play, knowing the rules, and whats expected of each of us. But, you'd be surprised at whats 'unknown' in the community.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×