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Kevin

What Is Stopping Me?

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[align=left]So, after reading some STUFF I began to ask myself "What is stopping me from producing fake evidence" Then I realized, nothing. It is so incredibly easy to fabricate and produce fake conversations, in order to get someone banned. Allow me to explain:

Step 1: Change my name (or get a friend to change there name) to the person I want banned.

Step 2: Send hateful message to friend, or receive hateful message from friend.

Step 3: Recorded and reported.

[align=left]Now this is an example using steam. It isn't uncommon for people to use things like Skype, or Slack to communicate between friends. It is extremely easy to frame someone on both of these platforms.

[align=left]If the staff team receives 1 screenshot of someone being abusive in lets say, a Slack convo, that person will be permanently removed. Now, that removed player could actually be innocent, and plead innocence. How would it be decided? If you got a screenshot of his name saying it, it must be him right? Would the staff team believe that now perma'd user? I don't think so.

[align=left]What I was thinking, and would love to know the community opinion, is. Should you be able to submit evidence against someone without verification it is actually that person? If not, what is stopping people from framing others?

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Dusty    1050

This is a very important topic that needed to be brought up. This is way too fucking easy to do, and is honestly pretty spooky to think about. At the moment, purposefully getting people banned, and snaking them, is incentivized. Basically, if I want somebody banned because I don't like them, I can do this and I will get in absolutely no shit at all. Which is extremely flawed because it encourages another form of toxicity in the community.

Add this with the already toxic attitude of some people and you can get anybody you want banned with no repercussions whatsoever. This needs to change now.

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Guest

I'm of the boat that thinks this is all fuckery anyway and any evidence submitted long after the fact should be void, but you bring up a very valid point. You can very easily change a nickname on both Skype and Steam and use it to frame someone else.

I honestly have no idea what we can do to fix this problem, my opinion is that things that happen off of DayZRP property shouldn't be DayZRP business, but for people that believe otherwise, this is another problem they need to overcome if they want to use evidence like that.

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Nihoolious    1110

Because of the possibility of someone easily forging evidence, I don't think any ooc conversation, especially over steam, can be 100% credible. That being said, I don't think we are going to get the outcome we desire. You get beanz for trying to make a difference though Kevin.

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Rolle    2453

Well, what's stopping it is that when the person you get banned files an appeal and we find out that the evidence has been manipulated, you will be the one who ends up permabanned. We have our ways of verifying the evidence and we're not stupid or blindly believe what you send us.

I only recall 1 incident in history of DayZRP where someone has been framed with false/manipulated evidence of external OOC hate, the person who reported it was permabanned. So no, I don't consider it a problem at this time.

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Guest

Well, what's stopping it is that when the person you get banned files an appeal and we find out that the evidence has been manipulated, you will be the one who ends up permabanned. We have our ways of verifying the evidence and we're not stupid or blindly believe what you send us. So far there has only been 1 incident in history of DayZRP where someone has been framed with false evidence, the person who reported it was permabanned.

Sorry, but,

How do you figure out if evidence is forged? The only way I see it is if someone else admits to it or something of the sort, which is what I'm guessing happened with the one permabanned guy.

I just would honestly like an example of a method of verification because I cannot find one in my brain atm

EDIT: maybe it's a trade secret?

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Rolle    2453

Well, what's stopping it is that when the person you get banned files an appeal and we find out that the evidence has been manipulated, you will be the one who ends up permabanned. We have our ways of verifying the evidence and we're not stupid or blindly believe what you send us. So far there has only been 1 incident in history of DayZRP where someone has been framed with false evidence, the person who reported it was permabanned.

Sorry, but,

How do you figure out if evidence is forged? The only way I see it is if someone else admits to it or something of the sort, which is what I'm guessing happened with the one permabanned guy.

I just would honestly like an example of a method of verification because I cannot find one in my brain atm

EDIT: maybe it's a trade secret?

We cannot share what data we have access to or how we verify the evidence, obviously :)

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Dusty    1050

Well, what's stopping it is that when the person you get banned files an appeal and IF we find out that the evidence has been manipulated, you will be the one who ends up permabanned.

That's IF you find out the evidence is manipulated, and that's a big if. What if I still just lie through my teeth? What if there's no way for you to confirm whether or not the evidence is actually fabricated? Are you just going to take one community member's word over another? That's very unfair and can be easily abused. 

Either way, I would like the topic of snaking and the topic of where DayZ RP's domain ends to be seriously discussed within the staff team instead of being quickly dismissed with condescending words. Clearly a large portion of the active and vocal community dislikes the way these snaking situations have been handled. Something needs to changed, or people will continue to leave the community out of distaste and fear of being secretly recorded and reported for everything they do.

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Sounds like it would be less of an issue if we weren't allowed to spy on people in private communications.  But what do I know?

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Rolle    2453

Well, what's stopping it is that when the person you get banned files an appeal and IF we find out that the evidence has been manipulated, you will be the one who ends up permabanned.

That's IF you find out the evidence is manipulated, and that's a big if. What if I still just lie through my teeth? What if there's no way for you to confirm whether or not the evidence is actually fabricated? Are you just going to take one community member's word over another? That's very unfair and can be easily abused. 

Either way, I would like the topic of snaking and the topic of where DayZ RP's domain ends to be seriously discussed within the staff team instead of being quickly dismissed with condescending words. Clearly a large portion of the active and vocal community dislikes the way these snaking situations have been handled. Something needs to changed, or people will continue to leave the community out of distaste and fear of being secretly recorded and reported for everything they do.

Like I said, this policy has been active for close to a year and we've had no major problems with it aside from that one incident. IF it becomes a problem then I'm sure we will look into it. Right now, there is no need to. I think currently the risk of being found out and permabanned yourself is considerable enough to prevent people from trying get others banned with fake evidence.

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Guest

Sounds like it would be less of an issue if we weren't allowed to spy on people in private communications.  But what do I know?

This. I don't want to derail the thread but this wouldn't be an issue if we didn't try to be the world police and try to monitor every member's activity, even outside DayZRP property.

I think instead of that we need to implement a very clear boundary, which is "If you have a problem with each other, take it outside. If any of the toxicity hits the forums, it will lead to points and/or a ban."

All I know is that Dusty has brought up some very valid concerns and I hope to see a good response.

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Guest

Well, what's stopping it is that when the person you get banned files an appeal and we find out that the evidence has been manipulated, you will be the one who ends up permabanned. We have our ways of verifying the evidence and we're not stupid or blindly believe what you send us.

I only recall 1 incident in history of DayZRP where someone has been framed with false/manipulated evidence of external OOC hate, the person who reported it was permabanned. So no, I don't consider it a problem at this time.

Well, that's not true.  There was a time where someone also manipulated evidence to get someone banned and they got off scott-free.  It was even proven the evidence was manipulated, yet nothing was done about it.

But we can handle that issue privately.  I won't clutter the thread with back and forth like every other thread that eventually gets closed.

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Guest

Sounds like it would be less of an issue if we weren't allowed to spy on people in private communications.  But what do I know?

Plus One ,

It would be way to easy for someone to forge evidence , there is no way you can know if the evidence is legit or fake,

Permabanning people on stuff that is not 100 percent is so wrong, shit like this is just too easy to fake.

IMO :)

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Darion    62

I simply think it comes down to..

Are you that much of an ass?

thinking about my time here i came to the theory that about 50% of the community would frame someone sadly

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Rebel Pado    284

thinking about my time here i came to the theory that about  50% of the community would frame someone sadly

About 75% nowadays tbh

Dark times...

Anyway nothing stopping no one from framing but that being said, there will always be snakes in the grass, just don't say anything (joking or not) with people you know are sweaty as fuuuuuck or just don't say anything. Just play the game for a moderate amount of time, have fun with your group or friends then once you get off the server or/and even in the server keep IC and OOC separate it won't hurt I promise.

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xIO_VAPEG0D_OIx    752

thinking about my time here i came to the theory that about  50% of the community would frame someone sadly

About 75% nowadays tbh

Dark times...

Anyway nothing stopping no one from framing but that being said, there will always be snakes in the grass, just don't say anything (joking or not) with people you know are sweaty as fuuuuuck or just don't say anything. Just play the game for a moderate amount of time, have fun with your group or friends then once you get off the server or/and even in the server keep IC and OOC separate it won't hurt I promise.

*waits patiently for pado to slip*

Na seriously keep yourself to yourself and you wont get in trouble

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edc625d9aa.jpg

Idk but tbh, we need to seriously talk about this Rolle. im bout to drop this exposed video here soon

took me 2 seconds to do that, think of what people could do if you don't have logs to check

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Guest

There's no need to create false evidence, when anything can get you banned everything is evidence.

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Species    239

Shit you said someone can just make an appeal and say the evidence is fake, but depending on how bad the "evidence" is I produce you would most likely think they are just lying to save their asses.

How would you find out something is fabricated then? Without the "snake" coming forward?

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Guest

There's no need to create false evidence, when anything can get you banned everything is evidence.

This. Anywhere, any time, everything you say or do, play or talk is potentially evidence for your removal. Dont talk on the phone, email, skype, slack, or steam about anyone remotely connected to DayZRP. You will be banned for OoC hate.

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Jango    29

At the end of the day, most of these OOC hate conversations happen when a person thinks they are speaking to friends in the privacy of skype/steam/slack and someone in there snakes on them. So should you really get in trouble for confiding your personal feelings which you're allowed to have as a human being in people on a platform other then DayzRP TS or IG ?

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Love Nectar    38

"What is stopping me from producing fake evidence?" Not being a terrible person? and having a little bit of respect for the community and the other members of it?

I see your point but the "Well two can play at that game" Approach is just immature ... come on we are not children.

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Guest

At the end of the day, most of these OOC hate conversations happen when a person thinks they are speaking to friends in the privacy of skype/steam/slack and someone in there snakes on them. So should you really get in trouble for confiding your personal feelings which you're allowed to have as a human being  in people on a platform other then DayzRP TS or IG ?

This.

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Mr Shank    22

At the end of the day, most of these OOC hate conversations happen when a person thinks they are speaking to friends in the privacy of skype/steam/slack and someone in there snakes on them. So should you really get in trouble for confiding your personal feelings which you're allowed to have as a human being  in people on a platform other then DayzRP TS or IG ?

You're absolutely right, people shouldn't get in trouble for voicing their disliking of someone to a closed audience eg. in a ts channel. However, I think you have completely missed the point of this thread. 

Obviously if one person harasses or abuses another person over VOIP in TS then obviously you can't really fake a voice, but if it is via poke or text chat then Staff can follow up on it. With steam it gets a little more complicated, it is so fucking easy to impersonate someone on steam so really a lot of "evidence" could be forged and staff would have no idea. So you do one of two things:

1. Ignore all Steam or any other form of social media harassment in case someone is impersonating someone else (obviously there could be cases where there are exceptions). In doing so you give the douche bags of the site a way to get away with their douchebagery.

2. Accept all evidence as genuine. Which then leads to wrongful bans etc.

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