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Question regarding the domain dayzrp and punishment

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Where does the domain Dayzrp end?

Can the domain Dayzrp and its staff punish people for deeds done not within the boundaries of said domain but for acts about the domain? I can understand that a person can be punished for stuff when either being in game on a dayzrp server, on the forums or on TS.

But when a person is not on the dayzrp domain, imo it should not be possible to punish a person for rulebreaks commited according to the rules which are only for the domain Dayzrp.

If a person does a rulebreak on another medium than by all means report him on that medium, but how are you going to absolutely make sure beyond all doubts that the person committing the rulesbreaks is in fact the same person as on the domain Dazyrp. And how can you punish that person for it?

I am pretty sure the answer will be rule 4, where admins can basicly justify to stop thinking, using common sense and punish as they think is fitting.

But a decent explanation from an admin or Rolle would be nice.

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Melvin    84

Incidentally enough, this is currently being discussed after the recent issues that have been very prominent. As you asked to an admin, I will only give my opinion and not a definite answer.

1. "imo it should not be possible to punish a person for rulebreaks according to the rules only for dayzrp"

Rolle has responded somewhere that he is not willing to give up power concerning this aspect. (ill quote it soon) This is especially pertaining to insults and harassment pointed at other members of the community.

2.If a person does a rulebreak on another medium than by all means report him on that medium, but how are you going to absolutely make sure beyond all doubts that the person committing the rulesbreaks is in fact the same person as on the domain Dazyrp. And how can you punish that person for it?

Then the ban appeal that will be made will clarify doubt if there was a possible misID.

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xIO_VAPEG0D_OIx    749

Just a question Melvin, you say that a ban appeal would be made but what if they couldn't prove it? Surely they would just stay banned due to Rule 4 and the possibility that they may have done it.

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Then the ban appeal that will be made will clarify doubt if there was a possible misID.

The "sort it out in the ban appeals" line of thought is not a good one for any staff team.

People shouldn't be inconvenienced by a ban that has some significant aspect of doubt like that.

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Chris    61
free_speech.png

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Melvin    84

@Dom

I can't give an answer to that as the admins have their own ways of clarifying misconceptions and doubts. They will provide a response soon.

@Nolan.

I understand but in this case, approaching them on TS is the only other viable alternative to clarify that they are not the same person.

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Alex    451

I'll drop my opinion, the admins will get around to a solid statement soon enoguh either way.

Our domain lies on any DayZRP related platforms that we see fit to apply the community rules to. This includes but is not limited to the Forums, DayZRP's Servers, Teamspeak, Discord, Plug.DJ, etc. If people are breaking community rules on any related platforms the staff team sees no issue with giving punishments.

That being said, Rolle is the owner of this community and as he has said in the past, he is not about to give up his ability to permanently remove people he believes are damaged to this community or abusive in any way to it's members. As much as you may not like this response, that's what him and by extension the admin team are willing to do to keep this community in a suitable place. However, if we do not have conclusive evidence to say that this person on another medium is the person on the forums, we would not ban them. Any cases of the admin team breaching their 'domain' if you will, have come up with 100% confirmation that the person on that medium is the person they have banned on the forums.

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Our domain lies on any DayZRP related platforms that we see fit to apply the community rules to. This includes but is not limited to the Forums, DayZRP's Servers, Teamspeak, Discord, Plug.DJ, etc. If people are breaking community rules on any related platforms the staff team sees no issue with giving punishments.

So you're saying that community rules for Dayz apply to reddit for instance? Or another community? Isn't that a little beyond of what you're able to control and confirm?

That being said, Rolle is the owner of this community and as he has said in the past, he is not about to give up his ability to permanently remove people he believes are damaged to this community or abusive in any way to it's members. As much as you may not like this response, that's what him and by extension the admin team are willing to do to keep this community in a suitable place. However, if we do not have conclusive evidence to say that this person on another medium is the person on the forums, we would not ban them. Any cases of the admin team breaching their 'domain' if you will, have come up with 100% confirmation that the person on that medium is the person they have banned on the forums.

I'll await an admin or Rolles response for the rest. Thank you for your opinion though, I appreciate it.

Incidentally enough, this is currently being discussed after the recent issues that have been very prominent. As you asked to an admin, I will only give my opinion and not a definite answer.

1. "imo it should not be possible to punish a person for rulebreaks according to the rules only for dayzrp"

Rolle has responded somewhere that he is not willing to give up power concerning this aspect. (ill quote it soon) This is especially pertaining to insults and harassment pointed at other members of the community.

I'll await Rolles answer.

2.If a person does a rulebreak on another medium than by all means report him on that medium, but how are you going to absolutely make sure beyond all doubts that the person committing the rulesbreaks is in fact the same person as on the domain Dazyrp. And how can you punish that person for it?

Then the ban appeal that will be made will clarify doubt if there was a possible misID.

So this means, judging on your words that a person can be punished on dayzrp without dayzrp staff having enough evidence. And this is not a troublesome direction the staffteam is heading towards, according to you? What's the staffteam to stop gathering evedince at all and just punish on their gutfeeling? Or start punishing on their opinion on the subject?

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I've given an answer to similar questions in this ban appeal: http://www.dayzrp.com/t-Permanent-Ban-Appeal--90222?pid=1604315#pid1604315

Then why is Ark still admin after telling community members to 'jog on'? Essentially telling them to 'fuck off'. Is it because he didnt use the word 'fuck'? Or why is Keira still a PR manager after leaving snide comments in peoples beanz. They werent 'nice' to their fellow community members as required by the rules. I'll link screenshots of their offenses as evidence if you wish.

These offenses happened right here in your back yard, not a third party chat.

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I've given an answer to similar questions in this ban appeal: http://www.dayzrp.com/t-Permanent-Ban-Appeal--90222?pid=1604315#pid1604315

Rule number 1 states that all members are required to "behave maturely, politely and with respect towards one another". That's a requirement to be a member in this community. If you're not a nice person then you have no place here. The rules do not specify anywhere that you must be a nice person towards other members just on DayZRP, just nice to our members in general.

I've got a question about this specific statement taken from your answers.

So in this answer of yours, you describe that immature behavior directly towards another member is punishable and has no place here. I can get behind that, flaming shouldn't be present in any community after all. Now, talking about another member in a separate conversation, which is not part of this community, but happens to be hosted by members of this community, can get you banned? I'm rather confused by this, and taking a look at the official rule set we got right now, I've found this regarding interaction between members.

[...]As such, we require our members to behave maturely, politely and with respect towards one another. This rule covers all rude and offensive behaviour that is not allowed in our community.[...]

Once again, towards one another. I don't see a reason for handing out a permanent ban to a person that has talked about a person in a negative way. As soon as it goes to a 1on1 conversation, where the harasser directly verbally attacks another individual, flames them, insults them, etc. then you might have a tiny reason to remove them from the community permanently, but even then it's the individuals task to block the toxic person.

If these rules are after all all overruled by "admin authority" and Rule 4 then what's the point of having rules in the first place? But if these rules apply then 95% of the community, including staff, should be removed.

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Hollows    409

Regardless what is being said, until a Statute of Limitations or a actual domain is marked and locked down where authority cannot extend beyond these set boundaries, the domain ends wherever Rolle wants it to end. You could leave TS3 on, have a hotmic and be on the phone away from the computer talking to a friend, and mention someone from the community or something similar and someone reports it for harassment and bam, you get banned for a phone call. Realistically, if staff finds it within the mans to 'protect the community's interest', you can get banned for it.

Should there be limitations to protect people when they're operating outside the confines of the community? Absolutely. Are there any now? No.

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I've given an answer to similar questions in this ban appeal: http://www.dayzrp.com/t-Permanent-Ban-Appeal--90222?pid=1604315#pid1604315

That's it? You're not even trying to answer my question because you gave an answer to questions similar to it? By that logic, mailmen could deliver post at number 10 for house number 100, cause it has numbers similar to it, a painter could use red instead of blue as they are both colors and a CH could do your job as the answer is just as useless.

I thought better of you Rolle.

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NishiUrban    78

Not going to lie, it does seem a little odd sometimes when people get punished for making comments on outlets that aren't owned by dayzrp. I get that if someone is hardcore verbally slamming another member of the community on the dayzrp forums, dayzrp ts, or even oocly in the dayzrp servers, or other dayzrp related media like facebook or whatever that it would fall completely under staff's jurisdiction.

 But some of the few examples I've seen personally, and to be fair it wasn't that many, it's like people going outside of their jurisdiction. I like the community and all, I dig the game, I post on the forums and stuff. But I don't feel like people talking shit about someone from the community, outside of community owned outlets should be punishable inside the community. Does it suck for whoever is getting shit talked? Yeah, I guess, if they have the misfortune of finding out. But fuck, I'm sure someone is talking shit about someone else all the time without anyone ever even knowing it happened and it's not a big deal.

 I completely understand how people could be confused by the boundaries of Dayzrp's staff team, and what can and can't be punished. Do I have to follow the dayzrp rules and regulations 24/7 even when I'm not actively participating in anything owned by dayzrp? Because there's a chance someone who is also from the community might see what I said, and report it cause they feel some kinda way about it?

 I would like to believe there is a difference between saying, oh Kate is such a slut, to your buddy over steam. And telling Kate she's a slut on steam directly. (No offense to any Kate's that may be reading this. Cause fuck, I wouldn't wanna hurt them feels.) One is clear harassment, and the other is just taking the piss out of someone.

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Smilen    0

Just adding my opinion on, I dont intend to offend anyone.

If I dont get things wrong, people are, understandable , mad or curious about a recent ban handed down for harassment. A harassment which was made outside of any services this community offers.

In this manner, it wasnt connected with the community, therefore it isnt Rolle´s job to handle it, right ?

But you have to see, that the harassment (or whatever you want to call it) was made about a member of the community, and that it would have not been made, if this member wouldnt be part of the community, right ?

So it is indeed connected with the community, since it was made to "harm" a member of this community, even if it was in a private room. 

And I personally think, as long as it refers to the community, in the specified case a member, the admin team should have the possibility to punish such behavior.

As a last example. If people offend a random person, not being part of this community, I think no admin would mind, why should they ? But as soon as the community is the reason or the platform for the offending behavior, they would and should mind, shouldnt they ?

Although I doubt about the efficiency of handing down permanent bans without a warning in general. But that is none of my business.

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Rolle    2440

I've given an answer to similar questions in this ban appeal: http://www.dayzrp.com/t-Permanent-Ban-Appeal--90222?pid=1604315#pid1604315

Then why is Ark still admin after telling community members to 'jog on'? Essentially telling them to 'fuck off'. Is it because he didnt use the word 'fuck'? Or why is Keira still a PR manager after leaving snide comments in peoples beanz. They werent 'nice' to their fellow community members as required by the rules. I'll link screenshots of their offenses as evidence if you wish.

These offenses happened right here in your back yard, not a third party chat.

"Jog on" is nowhere near as bad as what has been said in the cases when someone was removed from the community? You're grasping at straws now. Please stop replying.

I've given an answer to similar questions in this ban appeal: http://www.dayzrp.com/t-Permanent-Ban-Appeal--90222?pid=1604315#pid1604315

Rule number 1 states that all members are required to "behave maturely, politely and with respect towards one another". That's a requirement to be a member in this community. If you're not a nice person then you have no place here. The rules do not specify anywhere that you must be a nice person towards other members just on DayZRP, just nice to our members in general.

I've got a question about this specific statement taken from your answers.

So in this answer of yours, you describe that immature behavior directly towards another member is punishable and has no place here. I can get behind that, flaming shouldn't be present in any community after all. Now, talking about another member in a separate conversation, which is not part of this community, but happens to be hosted by members of this community, can get you banned? I'm rather confused by this, and taking a look at the official rule set we got right now, I've found this regarding interaction between members.

[...]As such, we require our members to behave maturely, politely and with respect towards one another. This rule covers all rude and offensive behaviour that is not allowed in our community.[...]

Once again, towards one another. I don't see a reason for handing out a permanent ban to a person that has talked about a person in a negative way. As soon as it goes to a 1on1 conversation, where the harasser directly verbally attacks another individual, flames them, insults them, etc. then you might have a tiny reason to remove them from the community permanently, but even then it's the individuals task to block the toxic person.

If these rules are after all all overruled by "admin authority" and Rule 4 then what's the point of having rules in the first place? But if these rules apply then 95% of the community, including staff, should be removed.

Towards or about, it doesn't matter, if we think someone is being toxic towards other community members, that person will be removed. As I said in the example you quoted - "If you're not a nice person then you have no place here.".

These rules are upheld by me and the admin authority, yes. The point of rules is so that you can have an insight into what is and what isn't ok in this community. 

I've given an answer to similar questions in this ban appeal: http://www.dayzrp.com/t-Permanent-Ban-Appeal--90222?pid=1604315#pid1604315

That's it? You're not even trying to answer my question because you gave an answer to questions similar to it? By that logic, mailmen could deliver post at number 10 for house number 100, cause it has numbers similar to it, a painter could use red instead of blue as they are both colors and a CH could do your job as the answer is just as useless.

I thought better of you Rolle.

I'm sorry, I thought that reply covered all of your questions in this thread. In case it didn't:

- Where does the domain Dayzrp end?

It doesn't end anywhere.

- How are you going to absolutely make sure beyond all doubts that the person committing the rulesbreaks is in fact the same person as on the domain Dazyrp?

We check the evidence received of course, we do not blindly trust it. If there are doubts about its origin we investigate further before taking any action.

- And how can you punish that person for it?

By pressing the ban button. I'm not sure I understood this question correctly.

- I am pretty sure the answer will be rule 4, where admins can basicly justify to stop thinking, using common sense and punish as they think is fitting.

More like admins can basically punish any member they consider bad for the community at any time at own discretion, which involves thinking and using our common sense.

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Guest

To be honest, just look at people's Teamspeak descriptions. Joke or not, they could offend other people right? The majority of them aren't nice at all. I guess it's okay if staff does it, but if I or anybody else who isn't staff does it, may Rolle have mercy on your soul.

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Alex    451

Our domain lies on any DayZRP related platforms that we see fit to apply the community rules to. This includes but is not limited to the Forums, DayZRP's Servers, Teamspeak, Discord, Plug.DJ, etc. If people are breaking community rules on any related platforms the staff team sees no issue with giving punishments.

So you're saying that community rules for Dayz apply to reddit for instance? Or another community? Isn't that a little beyond of what you're able to control and confirm?

I'm a little confused - is there a dayzrp reddit we moderate? Not sure if you're meaning the regular DayZ reddit, cause I said DayZRP related platforms, not DayZ stuff like their forums, other communities or reddit.

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Burgz    6

I'd just like to chime in a little bit...

Administrators are authorized to use any means necessary to catch rule breakers as long as does not affect the community, gameplay, role play or community image negatively. (...)

You used that in this ban appeal that seems the be the centre of attention right now, however I can't help but think that you're breaking the pledge that you have quoted to justify your actions.

Many, many would argue that you have in fact affected the community image negatively but policing the entire of the internet, DayzRP related or not, in regards to the recent case where someone was slating another member of the community in an unrelated chat service.

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