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Thumper

Double standards?

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Thumper    0

Someone posts in a report that they are not involved in they get warning points. So, when a VIP posts in a report they are not involved in, the post gets deleted? I dont think thats very fair.

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Dusty    1586

I've also seen it where people not involved (who aren't VIP's or MVP's or anything) just had their post deleted. It seems to be up to whoever is handling it at that moment, however I think procedure should be followed. Unlike a lot of rules, this is something that is black and white. If someone is not involved in the report whatsoever, they should not post. Going forward, everybody should get points for breaking that rule, or every uninvolved post should be deleted; it shouldn't just be up to whoever is handling it. More consistency would be great.

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Post    0

I was about to leave Staff Feedback, but pretty simply put that was pretty unfair. I realize the person is new, but you warned someone for the exact same thing a post before, and removed the VIP's post (Wolfie). I don't really understand that.

Meanwhile the total thread is about metagaming our group, and we aren't even allowed to post on it.

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Beni    868

I don't think rank's matter mate, If someones rank/status in the community effects the outcome/verdict of a punishment they should receive then.. I don't like that. 

The youtubers get punished if they brake rules, so to be honest, I don't think rank's matter in terms of stuff like this!

I mean, fair enough if someone accidentally posts on an appeal/report(Somehow) then I don't think actions should be taken and it should be removed... But if someone did just randomly getting involved.. Like if someone says " Wow, you're stupid " in a report then yeah, punish them... 

Like, It shouldn't matter if you're just a normal player or server admin... If someone broke a rule, the should be punished the same as everyone else, regardless of there rank... 

But, I think normally... Rank does not matter, if someone brakes a rule then, they should be punished like everyone else. 

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Voodoo    488

Well this shouldn't be happening, it was always a rule in staff to never delete a post no matter where it is on forums, and in a report if you are not involved its a warning. Seems very unfair if this is what happened.

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Thumper    0

The situation is currently being dealt with. So no double standards as of right now :)

Then put the post back and warn them the same as the guy before. That would show transparency and put an end to the double standard complaint.

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Rolle    2963

The first post was warned incorrectly, will be fixed.

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Thumper    0

No they were warned correctly for posting in a report they are not involved in. The VIP did exactly the same.

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Rolle    2963

And the second post that was not related or called in?

Will be snipped and PMd, like the first one.

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Rolle    2963

No they were warned correctly for posting in a report they are not involved in. The VIP did exactly the same.

We have new procedures since June in staff, we have been previously giving A LOT of warning points to people for posting for being uninvolved. Many people were warned simply because they didn't read the sticky and tried to post relevant information with good intentions, not because they wanted to argue to derail the report. So since June we snip and PM the first time offenders. Someone forgot about it in the case of the first post, it was two different teams who handled the posts.

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Thumper    0

Oh okay, that makes so much more sense. Instead of following the rules you 'bend' them to accommodate VIP and not 'run her off' by correctly punishing them. And since it was called out you remove the points of the first poster? Double standard is right. Bravo.


Ignorance of the rules was never an excuse.

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Diamond    0

Damn I got 5 warning points for a report I wasn't involved in even when I gave information a question that wasn't answered and never got revoked in a ban appeal. But ok

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Voodoo    488

The whole point for warning people uninvolved was to reduce the amount of posts making it easier to piece together all information from victim and accused and make a full detailed verdict.

This change since June should have been shown to the community shouldn't it? In order to treat everyone the same and let everyone know the procedure. In my honest opinion I don't see why it was changed (if its not broken, don't fix it). Just because people were getting more points why change it? The rules were simple and if people couldn't read it that's their problem. Also it was never disallowed to post in a report you were not involved in as long as you had GM/Admin approval and relevant info for that report.

This whole staff procedure change seems to have been a waste of time and divides the community abit more, maybe this change is why so many mistakes have been happening recently because staff are not sure what if fact and what is fiction?

Just seems like the community has gone more into a profit driven business where any legitimate permabans/points cannot be seen on the forums as it may turn investors/donators/streamers away from joining. If there are now less points/bans given out to that of the past then why do we need this many admins? surely the amount of ban appeals have also decreased?

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Jamie    1422

Glancing over at the two posts, I could see an argument for one being warranted with points and a snip for the other one.

The first post was literally contributing nothing besides the fact he watched the stream. 2 lines. He didn't add anything besides that, no detail as to what he saw, in essence only being a +1 in a report.

The other post you're referring too had actual effort gone into it. They took their time to write up a reply which was a fair few lines which some actual content besides a "Yeah, I watched it too."

That's just my opinion. I can see the points being more warranted for the first example. Then, I can see the first example being a case of soft delete. We never take consideration as to whether it's a VIP, CH, Mod, GM, Admin, MVP or etc posting the comment. I've seen it in the past where staff members have received points.

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Rolle    2963

The whole point for warning people uninvolved was to reduce the amount of posts making it easier to piece together all information from victim and accused and make a full detailed verdict.

And it still is there exactly for that reason.

This change since June should have been shown to the community shouldn't it? In order to treat everyone the same and let everyone know the procedure. In my honest opinion I don't see why it was changed (if its not broken, don't fix it). Just because people were getting more points why change it? The rules were simple and if people couldn't read it that's their problem. Also it was never disallowed to post in a report you were not involved in as long as you had GM/Admin approval and relevant info for that report.

Our staff procedures are decided within staff and are not subject to community review or disclosure. It was changed because I thought it was better that way, no need to punish newcomers for a simple mistake.

This whole staff procedure change seems to have been a waste of time and divides the community abit more, maybe this change is why so many mistakes have been happening recently because staff are not sure what if fact and what is fiction?

I strongly disagree that not giving warning points to first time offenders/newbies who only tried to help but didn't read the sticky in the forum is causing the community to "divide".

Just seems like the community has gone more into a profit driven business where any legitimate permabans/points cannot be seen on the forums as it may turn investors/donators/streamers away from joining. If there are now less points/bans given out to that of the past then why do we need this many admins? surely the amount of ban appeals have also decreased?

That's a pretty wild theory.

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Thumper    0

I disagree. The second post offered nothing to the report because the poster was not called into the report. If you cant read a stickie, you deserve points just like everyone that 'memes' deserves points.

Had it been anyone else, I will guarantee they would have gotten points and the first poster would have maintained his as well. You may not take into account what their title is, but it happens, a lot. This is a case in point clearly. And, we'd all have agreed that the points were warranted. 

You can say what you want, say the policy changed, say the points weren't warranted, and we, the one's that know, will still see the truth of the matter. Its doesnt matter what the post stated, the stickie clearly says not to post in reports you are not involved in. Its says the same in ban appeals. Its been there for at least 3 years. 'Read before posting' is clearly marked. Ignorance of any and all rules is not an excuse. 

This is a simple fix. You  stop posts and questions like this by maintaining an ounce of consistency in rule violations and punishments. Its like a baseball umpire that calls strikes low. As long as he does it for both teams and is consistent with his calls, noone calls him blind.

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Nihoolious    1248

Just hold everyone to the same standard. Whether they are a wh!tename, VIP, current or former staff etc. Useless posts in reports and ban appeals has been a rule for a very long time with no opposition. My first warning points were posting in my friends ban appeal because he was dumb and wanted me to help him, yet you didn't see me demanding less punishment because I was new.

Its no different than new players loosing their whitelist in reports that get them banned for 5+ days. They recently read the rules and should know them, just like how someone browsing the report section should have read the stickies beforehand.

And if you are going to make exceptions for people that make you money, at least be open about it. Don't try and cover it up and look bad in the process.

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Alex    465

I mean, you might think otherwise but as Jamie said we do not give points based on what colour you are. You're welcome to think otherwise but it's not the case.

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Thumper    0

I mean, you might think otherwise but as Jamie said we do not give points based on what colour you are. You're welcome to think otherwise but it's not the case.

We dont need to think it, it was just witnessed. Points werent given based on color, but withheld because of color, title, join date...whatever.

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Valkerion    0

I mean, you might think otherwise but as Jamie said we do not give points based on what colour you are. You're welcome to think otherwise but it's not the case.

Interesting choice of words I would have chosen "donation rank" myself but each to their own.

But as a counter point try giving Rolle warning points ;) also its pretty well known that prevalent community members/streamers get a little more leeway when it comes to giving bans and warning points.

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Alex    465

-

Interesting choice of words I would have chosen "donation rank" myself but each to their own.

But as a counter point try giving Rolle warning points ;) also its pretty well known that prevalent community members/streamers get a little more leeway when it comes to giving bans and warning points.

Well, that's a different point entirely. Giving Rolle points aint the same as giving anyone else points, we all know that ;) That being said not like he ever breaks rules or gets ingame to break rules :D

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AndreyQ    0

We dont need to think it, it was just witnessed. Points werent given based on color, but withheld because of color, title, join date...whatever.

Well if you really think staff would do such thing, there is nothing anyone can say to change your view on the matter. Rolle explained to you the reason why one got points, the second did not but afterwards both warnings got revoked. Seeing as you still think all we do is purposely wrong I will try to explain once again what actually happen.

So the first person posts in the report, he is not involved, and the team dealing with it at the time forgot about the change in procedure that happened in June. The second post came, completely new team was dealing with it, and they said snip and PM as per procedure change. We then realised that the person before has also been warned, the moment when Rolle came in and undid the points.

I have zero clue how this is double standards in your eyes. You had all the rights to make this thread, as it actually looked like we were giving someone special treatment, however Rolle undid the mistake and followed the new procedure. So, if you believe that we didn't give points because someone had a VIP tag, then I really do think the problem does not lie within staff.

Just because people were getting more points why change it? The rules were simple and if people couldn't read it that's their problem.

Becuase not everyone reads the sticky of the report section. Instead of giving points to people that are not involved and meaning no harm with their post, we snip it and remind them of the report rules. If that happens again then we give out the normal 3 warning points. Voodoo, remember the necro rules? We used to give points to everyone that necroed. You were one of the people that wanted that changed and it was, exactly like we changed the procedure with uninvolved people posting. First-time offenders get sniped and PM, they do it again points.

This whole staff procedure change seems to have been a waste of time and divides the community abit more.

I would appreciate if you could explain how this change in handling uninvolved people posting in reports is somehow dividing the community.

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Storm    215

I'm sorry, but you cannot argue that staff doesn't do things differently when theres a VIP involved. If you treated everyone equally, PsiSyndicate would have been banned years ago.

In my personal opinion, it should not matter whether that person brings new members or not. If they break rules, they should be banned like everyone else. Here is a perfect example.

More specifically this particular paragraph:

We expect a lot more from you, being such a massive influence on this community. You complain that no one is in it for the role play when you, as far as we can see do not make any visible attempts to better the role play that you find yourself in.  Due to your long standing time in our community and all you have contributed to it we are choosing to be lenient on you and not simply remove you from the community.

This pretty much shows a sense of double standards because the member was a VIP. I don't mean to sound like I'm flaming anyone, but this should not be happening.

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