Jump to content
Server time: 2017-08-20, 17:11

Sign in to follow this  
Guest

NLR change suggestion

Recommended Posts

Guest   
Guest

Posted this in the rules draft thread and figured that I could make it it's own discussion thread so that people can more freely discuss it here instead of filling up the other thread. Hoping to get some staff opinions on this.


NLR Change Suggestion

I'd like to bring up my arguments against parts of the NLR rule. I would love to get good arguments for it to stay in return from those who support it, cause I can't see any.

This is the current NLR in the 2016 draft:

§9 New Life Rule (NLR)

§9.1 When your character dies he/she loses all memories surrounding the event that led to their death. Your character keeps the knowledge about your group, friends, enemies and other people that you've met before that event. Your character loses the memory of being initiated on, who by and where you were taken by your captors. Everything before the initiation is remembered.

§9.2 Since your character loses memories surrounding their death, you are not allowed to take revenge for hostile situations that lead to your death. That includes but is not limited to the person or group that killed you.

§9.3 You are not allowed to return to the area where you died for 1 hour after death. Server restarts, crashes or other OOC events do not affect this timer.

First I would like to mention §9.1. I know that all the rules written in the draft are there for a reason and have proven themselves to prevent adverse situations. But I'm struggling to see the point of this one. What do you accomplish by forcing the person dying to lose all their memories surrounding the event that led to their death? You will not be allowed to use any of the roleplay to shape and form your character. It will simply be a blank space in your character life that most people roleplay out as a memory loss - quite boring compared to what could have been. You will have to start over on the coast, come up with a reason for your sudden appearance there without all the equipment you once had. And since your character is not allowed to remember what happened to them, many people also avoid doing the medical roleplay that would realistically follow after such a traumatic experience that would lead to a game mechanic caused death. There have been discussions about enforcing medical role-play after deaths like this, which I would like to agree on, but I don't see it have it's full potential as a rule before this part of the NLR is gone. Yes it would be more focus on medical roleplay in general and people won't get as quickly into new hostile actions, but no one would know about the origins of their injuries, which is normally the first question a medic ask you.

This kinda leads into the second part of the NLR that I have issues with. §9.2. Which in my opinion should rather be called §9.1.1, since without §9.1, we would not have to deal with §9.2. So the rule states that since you don't remember the events leading up to your death, you also can't take revenge for them, which is kinda obvious. However, I feel like this rule is made more to prevent people from rushing after each other the moment they respawn to have an ongoing fight. I see the necessity of something preventing this from happening. I just don't think this is the best way to do so. Instead of just swiping this rule under §9.1 I would rather have made a new one, a timer on how long you would have to wait before being allowed to seek revenge. After being killed, your character would have to deal with the medical part of the injuries given to them, which only makes a timer like this realistic. So within this period your character is weak and can't go to war. However, they will still be a target to any other hostilities. That is when you would in a way be forced to stay low, avoid more danger than you normally do and see the necessity of having allies and people to support you. What's the point of having people to back your character up if they are always invincible on their own? Of course, this can be metagamed and rumours can spread that your character is weak. But wouldn't this be realistic (if the rumours spread IC) that people would try and hunt you down when your health is bad? Then comes the whole discussion about how much you would be able to do to protect yourself in this timeout period. Should you not be allowed to fight at all and only run away? Should you be allowed to fight as normal, as long as they are the one's initiation on you first? That's questions that I believe people should come down to an agreement about together.

I'm pretty certain that everyone has looked past this rule at least once by speaking to the other party involved and agreed to that the person dying can remember the events. In other words simply putting roleplay before ruleplay, which we all agree is important for good roleplay.

 TDLR: Swap out the old NLR with the one suggested bellow.

Rule change example:

§9.1 When your character dies you now are allowed to remember everything.

§9.2 In all causes of death (also glitches) you are not allowed to return to the area where you died for 1 hour after death. Server restarts, crashes or other OOC events do not affect this timer.

§9.3 Revenge KOS rights granted from being the victim of hostile situations do not carry on after dying.

§9.4 After death you will have a 1-hour cooldown, where you are not allowed to do any initiations.

The ones mentioned above are needed. With the ongoing discussion about medical roleplay enforcements, another rule about this can also be added:

§9.5 When your character dies (this applies for all deaths, also from grenades and unwanted deaths. Only exception is glitches) you will have to roleplay out related injuries.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Castiel    1124

I fully support the examples you've listed, I think it's better than what we currently have. I would keep the NLR timer at 90 minutes though, perhaps even the "no initiation period" too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest   
Guest

Mhm mhm, I like it. I've always been against our NLR rule tbh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest   
Guest

The NLR rule is not one I have always agreed with but I see why it's there. You don't want people running back at each other right away. Perhaps you have to wait x amount of time to initiate on the group that killed you. Also keep out of your death area for the 90 minutes. Keeping your memories makes more sense roleplay wise

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rolle    2452

The reason why the NLR forces you to forget about the encounter completely is because it prevent a vicious circle of initiations caused by a single incident. With your changes, if someone gets robbed they can use that as a reason to "hunt" down the group and take revenge, then that groups takes revenge back upon the guy etc etc - it continues forever.

If the whole forgetting thing could be avoided then I agree - it would definitely work better for RP and story telling, but we haven't been able to come up with an idea that would prevent the above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
swilly    13

There is indeed some flaws in the NLR, however I think the your changes would be extremely welcome in the RP sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest   
Guest

The reason why the NLR forces you to forget about the encounter completely is because it prevent a vicious circle of initiations caused by a single incident. With your changes, if someone gets robbed they can use that as a reason to "hunt" down the group and take revenge, then that groups takes revenge back upon the guy etc etc - it continues forever.

If the whole forgetting thing could be avoided then I agree - it would definitely work better for RP and story telling, but we haven't been able to come up with an idea that would prevent the above.

Thank you for explaining why you decided to keep it, Rolle.

However, I feel like many people wish to be able to seek revenge and such after a hostile situation, and I'm sure many decide to do hostile roleplay because they love the thrill of having someone who tries to hunt them down. The current rule allows people to do as much hostile roleplay as they want without having to face any consequences unless they choose to. I believe that if people knew that both parties would remember everything they did to each other, they would be more careful about their lives and also getting into pointless fights. Because many people oversee the rule in order to continue the roleplay with each other, we already have a situation where people hunt down survivors and groups to take revenge. This of course only goes if both parties agree that the event should be remembered. Which I find even weirder since then people can freely choose who to remember and not, avoid further roleplay with some people while being in way too much control of what happens to their characters in game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
   61

To my knowledge some groups don't even use this rule. They just agree with each other that everyone survived instead of died, to promote future roleplay situations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ocean    6

My whole time playing on these servers i've never seen the problem Rolle is talking about being prevented by the NLR. When someone dies by the hands of another there is always someone else who knows. This information Is then communicated to the person who dies, and they end up hunting that person down anyways avoiding them because they feel scared of them. 

The real problem is that people don't permadeath. But their is no solving that because it's only a game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Eagle    345

Why does it always have to do something  with hostile actions such as initiation?

if people wanna fight then let them, it always seems like  threads like theses target the once that enjoy the PVP element of the game and frown upon them.

NLR atm is iffy but no need to force people to go sit by a fire for an hour before old billy can walk off and start fighting.

People seem to forget that DayZ ain't all rainbows and lollipops but a hardcore PVP game with big role playing elements  that were added on and are not the core mechanics of the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest   
Guest

Why does it always have to do something  with hostile actions such as initiation?

if people wanna fight then let them, it always seems like  threads like theses target the once that enjoy the PVP element of the game and frown upon them.

NLR atm is iffy but no need to force people to go sit by a fire for an hour before old billy can walk off and start fighting.

People seem to forget that DayZ ain't all rainbows and lollipops but a hardcore PVP game with big role playing elements to it that were added on and are not the core mechanics of the game.

Trust me. This suggestion is not targeting PVPers. I'm not sure where you got that idea from?

Since you are bringing this up: This is a "hardcore roleplaying community" where PVP is something that should always be a result of a roleplayed situation. Trust me I love PVP, but to get proper PVP I would go to a public server. Don't get me wrong, I do believe PVP is very important to keep the excitement up and also because it's realistic in an apocalyptic world. But what's the point of pointless PVP on a roleplaying server. When you can get it with better quality somewhere else?

I just don't understand why you think this rule change will ruin PVP? It will rather make it more intense since both parties will be allowed to remember exactly what happened. It will in no way "force people to go sit by a fire for an hour"? If it's because it will force you to handle the consequences that it will bring upon you when people remember you in gunfights, I'd say deal with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SweetJoe    280

The reason why the NLR forces you to forget about the encounter completely is because it prevent a vicious circle of initiations caused by a single incident. With your changes, if someone gets robbed they can use that as a reason to "hunt" down the group and take revenge, then that groups takes revenge back upon the guy etc etc - it continues forever.

If the whole forgetting thing could be avoided then I agree - it would definitely work better for RP and story telling, but we haven't been able to come up with an idea that would prevent the above.

I was gonna reply to this thread but the Boss summed up everything i had to say.  Thank you Rolle.

In the case of remembering, ask your killers if they will be willing to forgo NLR, they just might say yes and you can legally remember your death using the permission they granted you, work out that you were injured and not killed, in order to build an IC relationship.

Weve had this happen alot where people say "the rp was great, im not upset i died, just upset i cant remember the roleplay." They have always been happy with the offer, and it works so long as everyone has the same story about how the killed was "wounded".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest   
Guest

Huh... These sounds like a good plan. lets make it happen people

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sylvester Todd    395

The reason why the NLR forces you to forget about the encounter completely is because it prevent a vicious circle of initiations caused by a single incident. With your changes, if someone gets robbed they can use that as a reason to "hunt" down the group and take revenge, then that groups takes revenge back upon the guy etc etc - it continues forever.

That already happens. So long as there is one survivor, which usually there is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest   
Guest

The reason why the NLR forces you to forget about the encounter completely is because it prevent a vicious circle of initiations caused by a single incident. With your changes, if someone gets robbed they can use that as a reason to "hunt" down the group and take revenge, then that groups takes revenge back upon the guy etc etc - it continues forever.

If the whole forgetting thing could be avoided then I agree - it would definitely work better for RP and story telling, but we haven't been able to come up with an idea that would prevent the above.

Agree with you Rolle. Happened to me when ZBOR kept capturing me and executing me and using that to gain more execution rights. Literally why I would second guess this change in the rule.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GaryCash    23

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I think changing up the NLR would lead to some awkward RP situations down the line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SweetJoe    280

The reason why the NLR forces you to forget about the encounter completely is because it prevent a vicious circle of initiations caused by a single incident. With your changes, if someone gets robbed they can use that as a reason to "hunt" down the group and take revenge, then that groups takes revenge back upon the guy etc etc - it continues forever.

If the whole forgetting thing could be avoided then I agree - it would definitely work better for RP and story telling, but we haven't been able to come up with an idea that would prevent the above.

Agree with you Rolle. Happened to me when ZBOR kept capturing me and executing me and using that to gain more execution rights. Literally why I would second guess this change in the rule.

And with that enforce medical rule you as a victim would now have a huge handicap. The rule punishes victims and yet people think it punishes aggressors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest   
Guest

The reason why the NLR forces you to forget about the encounter completely is because it prevent a vicious circle of initiations caused by a single incident. With your changes, if someone gets robbed they can use that as a reason to "hunt" down the group and take revenge, then that groups takes revenge back upon the guy etc etc - it continues forever.

If the whole forgetting thing could be avoided then I agree - it would definitely work better for RP and story telling, but we haven't been able to come up with an idea that would prevent the above.

Agree with you Rolle. Happened to me when ZBOR kept capturing me and executing me and using that to gain more execution rights. Literally why I would second guess this change in the rule.

Please explain how you remembering being captured by them would make them capture you more often? I'd say that if you remembered their names you would be allowed to have a reason for avoiding them so you wont be captured again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest   
Guest

The reason why the NLR forces you to forget about the encounter completely is because it prevent a vicious circle of initiations caused by a single incident. With your changes, if someone gets robbed they can use that as a reason to "hunt" down the group and take revenge, then that groups takes revenge back upon the guy etc etc - it continues forever.

If the whole forgetting thing could be avoided then I agree - it would definitely work better for RP and story telling, but we haven't been able to come up with an idea that would prevent the above.

I was gonna reply to this thread but the Boss summed up everything i had to say.  Thank you Rolle.

In the case of remembering, ask your killers if they will be willing to forgo NLR, they just might say yes and you can legally remember your death using the permission they granted you, work out that you were injured and not killed, in order to build an IC relationship.

Weve had this happen alot where people say "the rp was great, im not upset i died, just upset i cant remember the roleplay." They have always been happy with the offer, and it works so long as everyone has the same story about how the killed was "wounded".

I agree with you Joe.

If you ask the hostile party if you can remember, a lot of the time they will say yes to further RP. If they say no "Oh well."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest   
Guest

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I think changing up the NLR would lead to some awkward RP situations down the line.

And the current one doesn't? The reason why I want it changed in the first place is to avoid the awkward RP situations we face today, where people have to run around acting like they don't know who the person who tortured them for 4 hours and killed them the day before are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Para    189

... With your changes, if someone gets robbed they can use that as a reason to "hunt" down the group and take revenge...

If the whole forgetting thing could be avoided then I agree - it would definitely work better for RP and story telling, but we haven't been able to come up with an idea that would prevent the above.

A robbery usually implies they survive or somebody in the group does who knows about it, in which case they remember anyway and many people use that as a valid reason to hunt somebody down for revenge.

In any case Sofie, I completely agree. I think the NLR rule causes a lot of awkward issues that people just have to deal with with this rule's current state. So a big +1 from me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SweetJoe    280

The reason why the NLR forces you to forget about the encounter completely is because it prevent a vicious circle of initiations caused by a single incident. With your changes, if someone gets robbed they can use that as a reason to "hunt" down the group and take revenge, then that groups takes revenge back upon the guy etc etc - it continues forever.

If the whole forgetting thing could be avoided then I agree - it would definitely work better for RP and story telling, but we haven't been able to come up with an idea that would prevent the above.

Agree with you Rolle. Happened to me when ZBOR kept capturing me and executing me and using that to gain more execution rights. Literally why I would second guess this change in the rule.

Please explain how you remembering being captured by them would make them capture you more often? I'd say that if you remembered their names you would be allowed to have a reason for avoiding them so you wont be captured again.

Please re-read what he wrote, because you read it wrong. Sorry if this comes across rude, not meant that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest   
Guest

I agree, dying shouldn't mean that you forget about all the character development that happened. Roleplaying out injuries would also be cool, it would add some consequences to dying in-game, to which currently there are none (except for loosing some gear).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest   
Guest

The reason why the NLR forces you to forget about the encounter completely is because it prevent a vicious circle of initiations caused by a single incident. With your changes, if someone gets robbed they can use that as a reason to "hunt" down the group and take revenge, then that groups takes revenge back upon the guy etc etc - it continues forever.

If the whole forgetting thing could be avoided then I agree - it would definitely work better for RP and story telling, but we haven't been able to come up with an idea that would prevent the above.

Agree with you Rolle. Happened to me when ZBOR kept capturing me and executing me and using that to gain more execution rights. Literally why I would second guess this change in the rule.

And with that enforce medical rule you as a victim would now have a huge handicap. The rule punishes victims and yet people think it punishes aggressors.

The enforced medical rule was only a previous suggestion and has nothing to do with the original idea of a rule change. Anyway, why do you expect the victims not to be punished? This is why you should be scared of running into a city where there are gunshots, or bumping into your worst enemy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×