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Boston

Mis-ID because of uniform?

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Boston    648

Hello,

So let's say that for example that the French Foreign Legion initiates on a few of my friends, and they hold them hostage for thirty minutes. After the thirty minutes, they are released, and am informed that they are heading back to Kabanino. I and the friends walk into Kabanino and see some FFL members, and identify them by the famed red berets. We open fire and kill a few and then run (prolly wouldn't get far tbh).

What if one of the people that we killed had logged in after the situation, but look almost the same if not exactly the same as the others involved? If I had killed them, would there be any form of punishment? The reason I ask this is because, using the French as an example, most of them wear military with red berets, so it can be said that a good bit of them look similar if not the same, which then could be confused and lead to a Mis-ID.

If this turns into a discussion among the community, do move it to General Discussion or Suggestions, as I feel this could be a potential rule placement regarding uniforms.

Thanks all in advance, :D

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Guest   
Guest

Yes, you must identify your target. You would receive standard punishment.

/solved, but kept open for discussion.

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Guest

Kos is Kos. Doesnt matter what uniform they wear. If you don't have KOS rights, you dont have KOS rights. Identify your targets 100%. If you cant identify 100%, its better to not shoot.

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Guest

It depends. Obviously you should always ID your targets, but there's one exception imo. If you log in and join your whole group knowing they have KoS rights on them that's your own problem if you get killed. Especially if you join them at the same location of the hostilities.

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Dusty    1044

It depends. Obviously you should always ID your targets, but there's one exception imo.  If you log in and join your whole group knowing they have KoS rights on them that's your own problem if you get killed. Especially if you join them at the same location of the hostilities.

I agree with this honestly. If you knowingly run around with your group that people have active KoS rights on, and then get killed while making no attempt at distancing yourself from them, then that's on you. People already use rule armor way too often, and this is one of those situations. 

Obviously correctly IDing your targets is necessary, but I feel like in this situation, if it's proven that the person who logged in and then died knew that their group was actively being hunted, the killer should either receive a reduced punishment or even a verbal warning.

Edit: I see this situation as very similar to a situation in which someone knowingly entered an active firefight and then made a report after dying. In the active firefight situation, the OP of the report would receive a punishment for NVFL, and the accused would only face a verbal warning for Mis-ID/Firefight KOS. I think the situation should be treated similarly to the active firefight situation.

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   61

There are no group skins, so you can wear anything you like. If you shoot someone who is not involved, but fits the description, the fault is with you.

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   568

It depends. Obviously you should always ID your targets, but there's one exception imo.  If you log in and join your whole group knowing they have KoS rights on them that's your own problem if you get killed. Especially if you join them at the same location of the hostilities.

I completely agree. Looking back at this report, where the OP was willingly running with the people who just attacked me and my dynamic. Obviously it is important to ID your targets, but if it makes sense to take the shot, then why not?

I think Boston might have a good idea, just going about it the wrong way. In the situation he suggested, he could easily walk up the the FFL soldier and begin to RP, and try to recognize if he/she was one of the attackers. What if the soldier had just logged in though? Wearing the exact same uniform, and was running with the people you just attacked him. I would say no punishment on killing that person.  If they are made aware by there dynamic that people have KoS rights on them, and they continue to travel with that dynamic, and then get killed I would have to say verbal at most.

IMO

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IMO if they look simmilar  and the situation is boiling up to a kill or die situation leniency should be considered.

Yeah, everybody stop wearing red berets else you'll get KoS'd without reason.

No.

Always identify your targets.

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Dusty    1044

IMO if they look simmilar  and the situation is boiling up to a kill or die situation leniency should be considered.

Yeah, everybody stop wearing red berets else you'll get KoS'd without reason.

No.

Always identify your targets.

But that's not what we're saying. Sure, they logged in after the situation. However, these are the key things that change the situation:

1. They are wearing the exact same outfit as a group that has performed hostile actions against people.

2. They belong to that very group.

3. They are aware that their group may be shot at, and in the process they may be shot as well.

If they match all 3 criteria and still don't distance themselves from their group, then most of the blame is on them. We need less rules for people to hide behind. People need to start acting smarter and realistic instead of expecting to be completely safe just because they logged in after the situation. 

If someone logs in and knows that their group may be shot at and killed, and still decides to run with them, then they need to accept the fact that they themselves will probably be killed as well. As far as who informs them that their group may be shot at, that should be the responsibility of their group.

I'm sick of people hiding behind the rules and playing situations out differently than they actually would IRL. If my group of people just tortured or robbed someone, and I wake up from where I was sleeping and join my group, obviously I should expect to be killed for what my friends did. Now obviously not everything in RP can be super realistic; we do need some rules to keep the server from being basically a pub server. However, people should be expected to not use rules as armor in situations where they realistically wouldn't go into unless they had a deathwish.

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Mazer    5

I feel like this is a touchy subject and difficult to word correctly to get across what you mean but what if FFL suddenly went into civilian outfits and you shot at a random military guy. While I think people in FFL for example situation log in while they know a situation is going down, it should be on them if they get KOS'd. But with this, it is also incredibly easy to make the mistake of MisIDing a target and ending up being reported.

There's a very fine line and I think people would maybe hide behind the thing of thinking it was part of them because of uniform but honestly best result is to just always ID your targets 100%.

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SweetJoe    280

Hello,

So let's say that for example that the French Foreign Legion initiates on a few of my friends, and they hold them hostage for thirty minutes. After the thirty minutes, they are released, and am informed that they are heading back to Kabanino. I and the friends walk into Kabanino and see some FFL members, and identify them by the famed red berets. We open fire and kill a few and then run (prolly wouldn't get far tbh).

What if one of the people that we killed had logged in after the situation, but look almost the same if not exactly the same as the others involved? If I had killed them, would there be any form of punishment? The reason I ask this is because, using the French as an example, most of them wear military with red berets, so it can be said that a good bit of them look similar if not the same, which then could be confused and lead to a Mis-ID.

If this turns into a discussion among the community, do move it to General Discussion or Suggestions, as I feel this could be a potential rule placement regarding uniforms.

Thanks all in advance, :D

But what if they were the men of container 21? They also wear red berets.

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Coreena    91

Kos is Kos. Doesnt matter what uniform they wear. If you don't have KOS rights, you dont have KOS rights. Identify your targets 100%. If you cant identify 100%, its better to not shoot.

Yeah, but what if some red beret's who WERE at the initiation didn't speak? How can you identify your targets if they look exactly the same and you don't know who they are?


I'd like to bring up another question... What would you guys think if the rules were to be changed where... if you are in a group and your GROUP (not dynamic) initiates on someone, and even though you log in after the initiation, the KOS rights still transfer to you until 2 hours after the hostages are released. 

Yes, it would be very unfortunate if you were to log in, not want to initiate on someone and randomly get domed... but it's also pretty unfortunate for you to be in a group that has countless hostilities with another that you weren't particularly involved in, but the enemy group has execution rights on you (This is already in the rules). Do you guys think people should be held responsible for their groups actions to this extent? This may solve a few loopholes within the rules, but it may cause more! (:

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Lyca    678

Kos is Kos. Doesnt matter what uniform they wear. If you don't have KOS rights, you dont have KOS rights. Identify your targets 100%. If you cant identify 100%, its better to not shoot.

Yeah, but what if some red beret's who WERE at the initiation didn't speak? How can you identify your targets if they look exactly the same and you don't know who they are?


You cant kill them then. Simply as that I guess. Its unfortunate but nobody can change that.

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Guest

Kos is Kos. Doesnt matter what uniform they wear. If you don't have KOS rights, you dont have KOS rights. Identify your targets 100%. If you cant identify 100%, its better to not shoot.

Yeah, but what if some red beret's who WERE at the initiation didn't speak? How can you identify your targets if they look exactly the same and you don't know who they are?


You cant kill them then. Simply as that I guess. Its unfortunate but nobody can change that.

You can kill them, but if your wrong you'll get hit with a Mis-ID unless you can prove they took part in the situation.

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Guest

Kos is Kos. Doesnt matter what uniform they wear. If you don't have KOS rights, you dont have KOS rights. Identify your targets 100%. If you cant identify 100%, its better to not shoot.

Yeah, but what if some red beret's who WERE at the initiation didn't speak? How can you identify your targets if they look exactly the same and you don't know who they are?


You cant kill them then. Simply as that I guess. Its unfortunate but nobody can change that.

If I'm like 90% sure they were part of the initiating party, I'd take my chances tbh, if I guess wrong then I get ban. Oh well.

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Lyca    678

Yeah, but what if some red beret's who WERE at the initiation didn't speak? How can you identify your targets if they look exactly the same and you don't know who they are?


You cant kill them then. Simply as that I guess. Its unfortunate but nobody can change that.

You can kill them, but if your wrong you'll get hit with a Mis-ID unless you can prove they took part in the situation.

Yeah not wrong. But I personally dont like to gamble. :)

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But what if they were the men of container 21? They also wear red berets.

I'm neither and I wear a red beret. Point it, excusing a mis-ID because of a piece of clothing will never work. It will always escalate to something as stupid as "those guys wear black high-cap vests, he was wearing one", or "he had a knife in his boot, like them".

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But what if they were the men of container 21? They also wear red berets.

I'm neither and I wear a red beret. Point it, excusing a mis-ID because of a piece of clothing will never work. It will always escalate to something as stupid as "those guys wear black high-cap vests, he was wearing one", or "he had a knife in his boot, like them".

You guys are focusing too much on the uniform as the sole indicator. I agree that the rules should do everything in their power to avoid MisIDs but look at the other factors within this hypothetical situation;

  1. Uniform similarities
  2. Same location/vicinity
  3. Same time

This isn't just like - 'My mates at NWAF got robbed by , hey this guy on the coast has a red beret *blaow*' - there's 3 different factors pointing to them being the likely targets.

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