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Phoenix

My turn at a Rant

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Phoenix    1034

Considering I play every single day and spend a lot of hours at our camp I would like to point out a few things I have noticed about new community members that I would like to address. This does not count for every single new player, I would like to make that clear. I won't beat around the bush.

Our Camp is currently a pretty big hotspot on the map and that is fine. I won't deny that I have advertised it on the radio chatter a few times and therefore new players from all over come and visit, that is great, that's what we want. We want to help newcomers shape their RP and improve, show them how they can become a fantastic RPer, etc. However lately I have tried more than my best in doing so and it seems to be ruined by people that literally only come onto these servers to gear up and horde loot somewhere.

The stereotypical person that comes to our camp at least a few times a day is dressed in full and I mean FULL military gear, fully kitted Guns, double carrying etc. We then greet them, to which they hardly speak. To sharpen the RP a little we ask them how they got to the country. Some seem to think it's an island which is pretty amusing. The most common story is that they were soldiers and their planes crashed. Great story 10/10. By that time we are bored, considering they show no effort or dedication in Roleplaying. 

We then tell them the guidelines / rules of the camp and let them in. They proceed by running through all of our tents all day long, not really saying a word to anyone inside the camp. Every so often we see them shuffling around in front of people asking them if they wanted to trade mags, telling everyone that we're a trading post which again, we are not and it's quite annoying when people call us a trading post honestly. They don't RP walk, they only jog and sprint around, they can't stand still, they shuffle in front of you.

I don't know what else to do. People like that make the RP horrible for the people in camp that take it very seriously, like myself.

We try to encourage them how they can be better, offer them a helping hand and try to connect with them whilst they're in camp but they seem to have no care in this world for the RP. They seem to only be here in this community to horde gear and not get shot whilst doing it, which I see no damn purpose in whatsoever and I myself would get extremely bored if I did that all day long.

There are a lot of groups and Individuals that really shape the RP in The refuge at the moment. They are the reason we haven't given up yet. The people that come to this server and really care about individual character development and friendships and I am really happy to see people like that after an entire day of shuffling super soldiers that want to trade mags with everyone in camp.

What is your experience with people like that? I would like to know I am not the only person who finds it really really unenjoyable.

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Para    175

-snip-

I think this is a tad unfair to the new players to be honest. Whilst yes, a lot of the time their stories are unoriginal what you have to bare in mind is that they may not know what else to have as their character story. yes their story may be boring, but unless you actively track them down OOC and try to help them, complaining about it in this thread is not going to do anything at all.

In relation to the tents, that can be solved ICly. It's pretty simple to keep people out of the tents. If they don't rp that much, boot them out. Spark something with them to show emotion. If you keep trying the same tactics and failing, then who's to blame when they don't change their behaviour?

I do not agree with this thread being put up at all to be honest. This thread is looking to start problems between old and new players and does not try to help the new players that much. If a new player reads this and takes anything from it, all this thread will have achieved is making them feel bad.

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I see what you mean. Every time I meet someone in full military gear its 9 times out of 10 the same, bland, short and borderline RP just so they can go off and get more gear. The amount of times people have just came up to me asking if I have ammo then when I say no they just leave is countless.

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Melvin    84

Just to be clear, I love you, Phoenix, and I think that this thread has it's merits.

However, I don't feel like this thread should have been posted. I do understand the frustrations that come with having one of the hotspots in the community at the moment, but such threads would only seek to drive them away, and add on to the general name-shaming. I will go ahead and admit that I have participated in it as welL.

But, come on, those who joined this community, even me, we had the initial dizzy rush that comes with no-kos and the sudden pile of gear. Hell, even now, I still have the girly giggles when I get my hands on a SVD or finally finish kitting out my beautiful M4 that shines in the twinkling light. Yet, I feel like there can be much done to combat this problem instead of looking upon them in disdain as they shuffle around with their magazines and their gear muttering "Man, why can't they roleplay like the rest of us? It's like they just joined the community or something." in the tiny corners of the room.

You raise many good points, let's not be wrong about that, but I just feel that you can blunt your words a little bit and try to initiate roleplay with them, fuck, even FORCE it on them. They are jogging around? Be hostile, call them out, surround them, ask them why the fuck are they treating your campsite as a running track. Their plane crashed? How did they survive the plane? How did they manage to find food? Parachutes? Point holes in their stories, fluster them, make them KNOW in character that there are holes in their stories, not like this.

I don't know man, it's just....I can't really find any words, such a thread is good for pointing out the things that newcomers could improve on, but I just feel like it could be softened a little, instead of indirectly saying that the newcomers are draining your motivation to roleplay, and that they make it horrible for anyone else. We all start from somewhere, and I just feel like when you are starting out, you would be discouraged as hell if you are targetted like this.

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Phoenix    1034

-snip-

I think this is a tad unfair to the new players to be honest. Whilst yes, a lot of the time their stories are unoriginal what you have to bare in mind is that they may not know what else to have as their character story. yes their story may be boring, but unless you actively track them down OOC and try to help them, complaining about it in this thread is not going to do anything at all.

In relation to the tents, that can be solved ICly. It's pretty simple to keep people out of the tents. If they don't rp that much, boot them out. Spark something with them to show emotion. If you keep trying the same tactics and failing, then who's to blame when they don't change their behaviour?

I do not agree with this thread being put up at all to be honest. This thread is looking to start problems between old and new players and does not try to help the new players that much. If a new player reads this and takes anything from it, all this thread will have achieved is making them feel bad.

As I stated in the first sentence it does not address all new players. I simply feel like a lot of people don't put any effort or dedication into their backstories and their roleplay and are only here to not get shot on sight without caring about the RP. 

We actively try to shape new player's RP and as you can see from the roster of my group we have taken on, I counted, 10 people from June / July / August 2016 so if anything I find it unfair how I am the bad guy in this when I do my best at helping new players. 10 out of 21 of my group members are newcomers and I am only concerned about those who come to our camp or we meet on the streets and show no care or love for RP.

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Para    175

-snip-

I think this is a tad unfair to the new players to be honest. Whilst yes, a lot of the time their stories are unoriginal what you have to bare in mind is that they may not know what else to have as their character story. yes their story may be boring, but unless you actively track them down OOC and try to help them, complaining about it in this thread is not going to do anything at all.

In relation to the tents, that can be solved ICly. It's pretty simple to keep people out of the tents. If they don't rp that much, boot them out. Spark something with them to show emotion. If you keep trying the same tactics and failing, then who's to blame when they don't change their behaviour?

I do not agree with this thread being put up at all to be honest. This thread is looking to start problems between old and new players and does not try to help the new players that much. If a new player reads this and takes anything from it, all this thread will have achieved is making them feel bad.

As I stated in the first sentence it does not address all new players. I simply feel like a lot of people don't put any effort or dedication into their backstories and their roleplay and are only here to not get shot on sight without caring about the RP. 

We actively try to shape new player's RP and as you can see from the roster of my group we have taken on a lot of people from June / July / August 2016 so if anything I find it unfair how I am the bad guy in this when I do my best at helping new players and am concerned about those who come to our camp and show no care or love for RP.

And if it wasn't clear from my first post, i am referring to the people you are publicly shaming on the forums. My point still stands, this thread does not achieve anything but hate. This is not helping the new players at all. Whilst I understand you might try to help them, this does not. This thread achieves exactly the opposite. You helping new players does not give you a right to shame the ones that are bad on the forums.

Phoenix, my first post was entirely to do with you posting something that seems to shame half of the community. If it was unclear, what I am saying is that instead of giving them shit like saying "People like that make RP horrible" actually help them. Find out who they are, give them constructive feedback, and try to help their roleplay OOC. You cannot solve the problem you're complaining about by writing a thread that they probably won't read.

My point still remains... this thread only achieves hate.

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Phoenix    1034

I think this is a tad unfair to the new players to be honest. Whilst yes, a lot of the time their stories are unoriginal what you have to bare in mind is that they may not know what else to have as their character story. yes their story may be boring, but unless you actively track them down OOC and try to help them, complaining about it in this thread is not going to do anything at all.

In relation to the tents, that can be solved ICly. It's pretty simple to keep people out of the tents. If they don't rp that much, boot them out. Spark something with them to show emotion. If you keep trying the same tactics and failing, then who's to blame when they don't change their behaviour?

I do not agree with this thread being put up at all to be honest. This thread is looking to start problems between old and new players and does not try to help the new players that much. If a new player reads this and takes anything from it, all this thread will have achieved is making them feel bad.

As I stated in the first sentence it does not address all new players. I simply feel like a lot of people don't put any effort or dedication into their backstories and their roleplay and are only here to not get shot on sight without caring about the RP. 

We actively try to shape new player's RP and as you can see from the roster of my group we have taken on a lot of people from June / July / August 2016 so if anything I find it unfair how I am the bad guy in this when I do my best at helping new players and am concerned about those who come to our camp and show no care or love for RP.

And if it wasn't clear from my first post, i am referring to the people you are publicly shaming on the forums. My point still stands, this thread does not achieve anything but hate. This is not helping the new players at all. Whilst I understand you might try to help them, this does not. This thread achieves exactly the opposite. You helping new players does not give you a right to shame the ones that are bad on the forums.

Phoenix, my first post was entirely to do with you posting something that seems to shame half of the community. If it was unclear, what I am saying is that instead of giving them shit like saying "People like that make RP horrible" actually help them. Find out who they are, give them constructive feedback, and try to help their roleplay OOC. You cannot solve the problem you're complaining about by writing a thread that they probably won't read.

My point still remains... this thread only achieves hate.

If it's that much of a problem that I voiced my opinion, go ahead and close the thread. I would've liked some more opinions but if it needs to be closed because it's too offensive to adress flaws, by all means, go ahead.

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I for one see no point in these rant threads, you're not being much if anything to the table here. Not every person who comes here, survives the whitelist and gets in to game needs this kind of treatment and borderline bashing from a previous staff member. The majority of "White names" that join the community do not have the experience some of us do like an extensive history in Role Play and story making.

You say the newer people are ruining the RP intentionally and that just isn't the case, this kind of community is new to them and people need time, months even to learn to treat our community other then a private pub with no KOS.

In the end what you are doing is creating a rift between older players and newer players, you're a lovely person Phoenix but you should know better.

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As much as I agree with your points here, I feel like this is a trending topic at the moment and this thread really isn't needed. To many threads like this floating around.

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Most players don't come to roleplay. They come here so they don't get shot in the face on sight in a public server.

Those that do show an effort remain and improve and those that don't usually lose interest and stop playing.

I keep in mind that everyone was new once and everyone has trouble adjusting at first.

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I kinda see where Phoenix is coming from.

But as far as backstory...its kind of a stretch for a lot of folks to think of a reason to be in Chernarus. I mean really...why would anyone be here just prior to or even after the infection? Its not like its on the hot list for cruise ships and tourism.

But with that said some people have done a REALLY good job stretching their imagination. For example "Percy" the historian (by Clownshoe on Youtube name) and "The Story of Tony Moretti" (by Gaming Roach on YouTube) is just freaking AWESOME.

My story...well I fell victim a bit to the narrow thinking. Yes I was part of the original US Military deployment. But I expanded on it a bit by saying I made good friends with one of the Local Police officers, even taking leave to help him fix his home and barn N of Guglovo. Later while flying helos for the UN in Rwanda I heard they needed help in Chernarus and I wanted to help! Then yes my story gets a little boring...I crashed up north and the UN left me for dead.

DO I wish I would have seen the two above youtubers before I joined DAYZRP... hell yes. I would have taken GREAT liberties and probably been some nutjob that chases imaginary butterflies while wearing a Yellow raincoat and wearing Wellies! LOL... but I have joined with a great crew and really enjoying myself. Maybe that will change latter....

As far as you camp goes that you welcome all to.... How cool. I would love to swing by and RP with you all. I have fun RP'ing but I could definitely learn/practice more. My crew has done a good job and been patient as I have made newbie mistakes... but we were all new at once right, and its folks like you that will teach the newbies (like me) how to give and take a good RP experience! Even if it is only 4 out of 10 that really take advantage of your groups trying to coach them (IC of course or OOC if you do that to). That's 4 more GOOD RP'ers the server didn't have before! Don't give up man!!!


Most players don't come to roleplay. They come here so they don't get shot in the face on sight in a public server.

Those that do show an effort remain and improve and those that don't usually lose interest and stop playing.

I keep in mind that everyone was new once and everyone has trouble adjusting at first.

^^^This.... said what I meant in a short couple sentences...lol

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Phoenix    1034

Most players don't come to roleplay. They come here so they don't get shot in the face on sight in a public server.

Those that do show an effort remain and improve and those that don't usually lose interest and stop playing.

I keep in mind that everyone was new once and everyone has trouble adjusting at first.

That is exactly what I mean. 

Keep in mind that 10 out of 21 people in my group are from July - August 2016 and we have taken them on with the intentions of helping them become fantastic RPers. We even try to help ingame, but we can't help those that don't show any dedication in willing to learn.

And that is where I am coming from. Some people are really only here to be able to gear up and not get shot.

I am not publicly dissing anyone in this thread, I am voicing flaws and if anything it should help new players understand that we are a serious community.

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Why is everyone so fast to shut down people who have an opinion on new players? If nothing is said then nothing is going to change, how can they know their Roleplay is dull/boring if nobody tells them?

I dont know why people throw around stuff like "oh its insulting to new players" well tough they need to know that this is a Roleplay server first and foremost not a horde gear and no KOS server and somebody needs to remind them otherwise they will assume what they are doing is fine. There is no rift between old and newer players unless they make one I have seen multiple newer members come forward and state they are new to Roleplay and would like to learn more from people. How are they going to learn if threads are just shut down everytime someone wants to point out a flaw that is quite consistent in newer players?

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PurifieR    17

I saw a guy two days ago at your camp guys, this guy, full military and with a gas mask took every single stanag (or 5.56 carry mag) and every single bullet, then, trading with it, saying that he's a trader and that he doesn't give anything to people, it kind of annoyed me but, it isn't my camp so, I stayed quiet.

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Skinner    427

Nobody was named. New players aren't going to know that their RP is crap tier or that their habits are indeed bad unless these kinds of things are called out on the forums. I suggest not name shaming like "Oh player X was guilty of this last night on S2!" or anything like that, but we need to be able to freely air our grievances with certain in game behaviors so that new players know what NOT to do. For example:

  • Shuffling left and right constantly (aka "the bandit shuffle")
  • Walking up to strangers and throwing one of your rifles at their feet offering to trade
  • Asking everyone you see if they have ammo for your gun
  • Referring to every base, camp, field hospital, or outpost as a "trading post"
  • Running towards gunfire to "see what's happening"
  • Making a character backstory without reading the official lore (such as claiming an American Navy Seal deployed to Chernarus after the outbreak) or not putting much of any thought to your character at all besides a first and last name.

There are many guides as well that would greatly benefit the sort of players who make these mistakes and will help them to become much better roleplayers.

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-Snip-

I never intended to sling shade or show hate for you but but you are pointing something out that has been pointed out like many before you but you have proposed nothing.

#MentorSystem

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Wulfe    6

Some people I think can't really be helped. They simply don't want to improve - not implying that they're trying to wreck RP - but it takes a backseat to how they want to play.

The people who are here to RP - whether they are good or bad - will improve with time. I have seen plenty of new-players who are excited and constantly improve their skills as they go.

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Hassan    378

Not sure why people are saying this thread is pointless, from my understanding it's productive if anything.

It feels like the point of this thread wasn't to shame new players but to write about things they can improve upon in hopes that they'll see this. Now she's not directing it at every new players here or making it seem like new players are only here for gear, it's just some people aren't exactly sure how to RP because they're new to it.

Nobody was shamed, singled out or anything. It's simply just to make some newer people aware of what can be unacceptable or to help them improve, and sometimes a little kick in the ass to get them going isn't always a bad thing.

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Sigoth    1

everyone saying this thread has no purpose. Alot of newer players lurk on the threads not posting but just reading and trying to get a feel for the community. I'm not new to rp but I am to dayz rp I don't take this offensively at all. all he is trying to point out is the flaws that new players tend to make when walking around and not role playing whilst carrying inhumanly possible amounts of gear. I love to see posts like this esp when I'm new, it encourages me to improve my rp and even points out the fact that if All I do is gear I will get bored.

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Melvin    84

Why is everyone so fast to shut down people who have an opinion on new players? If nothing is said then nothing is going to change, how can they know their Roleplay is dull/boring if nobody tells them?

I dont know why people throw around stuff like "oh its insulting to new players" well tough they need to know that this is a Roleplay server first and foremost not a horde gear and no KOS server and somebody needs to remind them otherwise they will assume what they are doing is fine. There is no rift between old and newer players unless they make one I have seen multiple newer members come forward and state they are new to Roleplay and would like to learn more from people. How are they going to learn if threads are just shut down everytime someone wants to point out a flaw that is quite consistent in newer players?

To address your first point, I just think that you can imply this in character. For example, they ask for bullets, you say what, they say 5.56, and you say that you haven't heard of it before. Boom. They just realised that not every single person would know what is a 5.56 round.

Of course, newcomers should definitely know that roleplay is held up to the highest quality in this server, but I just don't think that the message should be driven across by a giant "FUCK YOU, STOP DOING THIS" posted time and time again. Private messages, they can learn through more constructive ways. If everyone helps at least one newcomer, we would have lesser of these threads popping up, I'm sure.

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Why is everyone so fast to shut down people who have an opinion on new players? If nothing is said then nothing is going to change, how can they know their Roleplay is dull/boring if nobody tells them?

I dont know people throw around stuff like "oh its insulting to new players" well tough they need to know that this is a Roleplay server first and foremost not a horde gear and no KOS server and somebody needs to remind them otherwise they will assume what they are doing is fine. There is no rift between old and newer players unless they make one I have seen multiple newer members come forward and state they are new to Roleplay and would like to learn more from people. How are they going to learn if threads are just shut down everytime someone wants to point out a flaw that is quite consistent in newer players?

I think what the OP was getting at is there are some new players that are just disinterested in learning how to RP.  But like Echo said...they will loose interest and leave the server soon enough.

I think the GOOD this thread does, from me being a new player, is 1) I learned there is a camp with folks that want to RP, and don't mind a newbie (although the comment about a boring backstory was a bit hateful...but I see what the OP meant).  AWESOME..would love to know where that is.  and 2) may open up for some good suggestions on how OLD RP'ers can help teach newbies.

My suggestion is why don't we have an area that is a  FIRE free zone, all that enter neutral, and no camping/engagement trading/RP zone.   At least that would encourage those shy about RP or that still have the old DAYZ mentality of people = death or robbery a place to go to get to know other players and practice RP?


everyone saying this thread has no purpose. Alot of newer players lurk on the threads not posting but just reading and trying to get a feel for the community. I'm not new to rp but I am to dayz rp I don't take this offensively at all. all he is trying to point out is the flaws that new players tend to make when walking around and not role playing whilst carrying inhumanly possible amounts of gear. I love to see posts like this esp when I'm new, it encourages me to improve my rp and even points out the fact that if All I do is gear I will get bored.

Amen ..... couldn't agree more!

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Goku    61

I can see where you are coming from Pheonix but, now this is a pretty big but, this thread is searching for answers/opinions without giving any suggestions as to how to improve their RP and how we would like them to RP. This is the first suggestion I have to improve the RP of the newcomers, this thread is one way we can improve the RP of newcomers, if we were to help them by giving them a mentor who is willing to give up some time to teach them then it would go along way to improving the quality of RP. The second way we can improve their RP isn't by going out of our way to shame them or to guilt trip them, instead what someone did for me when I F****d up in game was to find me on the forums, message me and then give me hints as to what I could do to improve. We all make mistakes and we have all made the mistakes that a newcomer has and we all know what its like to have someone come up to us and shove it in our face that we did something wrong. So instead of complaining about the RP lets instead show newcomers a decent standard of RP and teach them to provide that standard.

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xIO_VAPEG0D_OIx    749

Nothing is wrong with her opinion though? and she's not aiming it at anyone can we all step back and chill out please.

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Lori    16

Maybe we should have Lore Masters check over applications and their histories when people apply. To my knowledge only Admins do it? I feel we'd be able to filter a lot of the confusion out if we did this ♥♥♥

Furthermore, I feel that some of the questions in the white listing process are easily found through ctrl+F. To my understanding the old white listing system required open ended answers. I'd like to suggest maybe incorporating a mixture of essay responses and multiple choice questions?

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To address your first point, I just think that you can imply this in character. For example, they ask for bullets, you say what, they say 5.56, and you say that you haven't heard of it before. Boom. They just realised that not every single person would know what is a 5.56 round.

Of course, newcomers should definitely know that roleplay is held up to the highest quality in this server, but I just don't think that the message should be driven across by a giant "FUCK YOU, STOP DOING THIS" posted time and time again. Private messages, they can learn through more constructive ways. If everyone helps at least one newcomer, we would have lesser of these threads popping up, I'm sure.

Well no where in this thread is there a giant "FUCK YOU, STOP DOING THIS" and I dont know why people always jump to that conclusion that threads like this are just to target people and ridicule them.

Fact of the matter is some people need a kick up the backside to get them started I needed one back when I joined my roleplay was mediocore at best until Bryan taught me how to roleplay better and he wasnt nice about it either. But its better to do it through a thread like this or over TS than just dishing out warning points or a ban right because banning someone teaches them nothing.


My suggestion is why don't we have an area that is a  FIRE free zone, all that enter neutral, and no camping/engagement trading/RP zone.   At least that would encourage those shy about RP or that still have the old DAYZ mentality of people = death or robbery a place to go to get to know other players and practice RP?

Would kind of go against the post apocalyptic atmosphere that is DayZ to be honest. Not to mention back in the day we did have something like this....It was not received well as it turned into a place where people hid behind the rules knowing nothing could happen to them whilst they were in there.


Furthermore, I feel that some of the questions in the white listing process are easily found through ctrl+F. To my understanding the old white listing system required open ended answers. I'd like to suggest maybe incorporating a mixture of essay responses and multiple choice questions?

I pointed this out a while ago to you can easily get through the whitelist without actually reading anything thats exactly what I did when I had to re-whitelist recently.

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