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Skeetsi

S2: KoS in Stary fields - 26/06/2016 01:00

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Server and location: S2 - North of Stary

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME): 26/06/2016 - 01:00 server time

Your in game name: Dragan Zhukov

Names of allies involved: Johnny

Name of suspect/s: ZBOR?

Friendly/Enemy vehicles involved (if any): None

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot): [video=youtube]

Detailed description of the events:

Heard my boys were having some problems so I decided to log in on NWAF and started travelling towards Stary. I took a dip at the Prud lake to cool off and continued on my way south. Once I got on the crossroads of the dirt road south of Prud I met two lads with red armbands who warned a guy about heading south that it's not safe, gave me the same warning and we then headed west.

I got to the field with overview to both Kabanino and Stary I stopped for a while, took out binocs and scouted a bit, didn't see anything. I continued heading towards Kabanino and spotted Johnny running my way. Stopped to say hello, waved at him and a hail of bullets hit me in the back and focused on me until I was down.

I had probably been on the server for 15 minutes with no player interactions before these and haven't really even played that much due to inactivity.

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Hello Skeetsi! I believe I may know the situation that was going on at the time as I was very much involved in it, would you like to talk about it on teamspeak?

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I don't think so. There's my POV, footage of me getting majesticly domed, couldn't be more plain and simple than that. Will answer if admins ask any questions.

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Connection Logs.

23:42:18 | Player "Dragan Zhukov" is connected
No Disconnection logs.
22:15:22 | Player "Nikolai Zdena" is connected
00:56:53 | Player "Nikolai Zdena" has been disconnected

Hit Logs

00:00:53 | "Nikolai Zdena SHOT Dragan Zhukov by SVD into rightleg."
00:00:53 | "Dragan Zhukov STATUS S::3200 B::1512 H::3600 HP::0."
00:00:57 | "Dragan Zhukov STARTS BLEEDING."

Kill Logs

00:01:06 | "Dragan Zhukov DIED Blood <= 0"

Calling in Nikolai Zdena to this report for his POV.

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Hello, this is Alex Zub here -- I would like to point out this report out as it happened before this situation.

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-S2-RDM-North-of-Stary-Sobor

This person claims that Zbor KOS'd him, but I was shot before him by Svatyně.

I'm sorry but I don't think I was even online at the time.

E: I had apparently logged in one minute before at NWAF and started checking the barracks. Had little idea what others had going on.

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Hello Skeetski,

I will copy the logs from our report in order to point out the times of the incident and clarify some stuff.

The situation of me getting ''majesticly domed'' happened at times of;

23:43:26 | "Elias Roach SHOT Alex Zub by M4A1 into rightleg."

23:43:26 | "Alex Zub STATUS S::4000 B::-1667.29 H::708.078 HP::0."

23:43:26 | "Alex Zub SHOT Elias Roach by into RightArm."

23:43:26 | "Elias Roach STATUS S::500 B::4500 H::4800 HP::0."

23:43:28 | "Elias Roach STARTS BLEEDING."

23:45:02 | "Elias Roach STOPS BLEEDING."

You got shot at;

00:00:53 | "Nikolai Zdena SHOT Dragan Zhukov by SVD into rightleg."

00:00:53 | "Dragan Zhukov STATUS S::3200 B::1512 H::3600 HP::0."

00:00:57 | "Dragan Zhukov STARTS BLEEDING."

Fifteen minutes before your death.

23:42:18 | Player "Dragan Zhukov" is connected

23:43:26 | "Elias Roach SHOT Alex Zub by M4A1 into rightleg."

00:00:53 | "Nikolai Zdena SHOT Dragan Zhukov by SVD into rightleg."

Seventeen solid minutes, you were online.

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Dimitri Irons POV:

Zbor was in a massive firefight with a few different groups, we began to take shots from and SVD and the op meets Phatal who tells him that we're in a firefight and he advises him to leave the area and they decide to walk towards the firefight, we see the op who had an SVD so we took shots which resulted in his death. ZBOR warned him of the fight and he decided not to listen! 

I would also like to add the OP admitted to logging in to help his friends in a firefight so isn't this ghosting? not to mention regardless whether the person was online or not he joined this situation during the firefight which resulted in one of his friends killing a member of ZBOR which resulted in us gaining KoS rights on them.

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Hi there! Nikolai here.

I have a few things to point out but first lets get to my Pov, shall we?

PoV:

Originally we were chilling out at Vybor Military Camp, one of our men died and we suspected two people of being behind it, we take them hostage and move them to the pianohouse in Kabinino, not much happens from here, we chill around and interrogate them for quite a long time until some commotion causes us to move elsewhere, we move north to the Kabinino Pub and start taking shots halfway there, after the short disruption of the fire we continued to the pub while the other half of us attempted to find and locate the Shooter.

Here is where it gets a bit tricky.

I and a few other members of Zbor (Irellevant) took the hostages to the pub and continued to RP, but during the time we did this one of our men was shot and killed, this being Shekel. Shekel was gunned down by Svatnye and I believe a few more shots was exchanged inbetween that short time, however due to the killing of Shekel and the fact that we were within 500 meters, we had KoS rights, atleast I did.

We shortly after let the hostages go and go to join the others in finding the shooters, in our channel we were informed that one of the shooters had an SVD and had used it to shoot against us. So we were actively looking for exactly that, two men, one with an SVD. We spot the OP in the hill with an SVD and make the judgement that this must have been the person who shot earlier. While this wasn't the case, we werent completely wrong. OP, the person we killed turned out to be with the group that had killed Shekel, and he was roaming in the area of the shooting.

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Moving to my actual points.

OP himself stated that he joined in to help his friends cause he heard they needed help, while this is mid-firefight is this not considered ghosting?

Another note is that even though the OP wasn't the original shooter, he was a part of the group that we had KOS rights on. Making it a perfectly valid kill.

Another thing to point out is that the OP was even ICly warned about the firefight going on and still choose to enter it. I am sure that even if we hadn't warned him his group would surely have told him that this firefight was going on, and that he could be killed going into it.

To sum it up:

The OP could have been ghosting by logging in to help an ongoing firefight.

The OP was part of the group we had KoS rights on, the group who shot Shekel, who is with us.

The OP matched the ID of the person we were looking for, and while he may not have been the shooter, he certainly was involved. (KoS Rights)

I believe I've highlighted all that I need to, and I will refrain from posting unless asked to by staff.

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What I meant was, let me clarify also, I had been online for one minute when you got killed. I was all the way at NWAF, way over 2 clicks away so that rules out any kind of ghosting you're going for here. Hence no KoS rights on me and I couldn't do anything to you. I had not had any interaction with my group members nor any hostilities with anyone. You were literally the first people I met on that playthrough.

f8fd7a2e3f.png

Secondly, I met you at point 1 where you said south is bad, you suggested heading west. Point 2 is where I spot Johnny heading towards me and get shot. As far as I'm still concerned the rules don't state that as a valid initiation and you had just met me less than 5 minutes before. Didn't hear any kind of firefighting down south at all.

00fa42836e.jpg

If I matched the description of the guy you were looking for, why not dome me or initiate on me at the crossroads.

Conviniently this time I was in the same group and it's easy to cling on that excuse but it doesn't give out any KoS rights on me if I haven't even met up with them in a week. There are literally no ways of telling that I am a part of some group since I've been very inactive and have had very few player interactions so it was just pure luck for you or the information was obtained outside of the game.

Zbor was in a massive firefight with a few different groups, we began to take shots from and SVD and the op meets Phatal who tells him that we're in a firefight and he advises him to leave the area and they decide to walk towards the firefight, we see the op who had an SVD so we took shots which resulted in his death.

Oh yeah, and I had an AK101, not SVD. Failed to identify that also, despite seeing me up close less than 5 minutes ago.

Did I really just get shot by one of you? I could swear I heard a barrage of bullets coming from different weapons. I'm quite positive I took a hit from an AKM also.

Would it have been then totally OK to just plainly down 2 of you by the corssroads just because you matched the description of ZBOR with red armbands?

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At the end of the day a few facts are true which makes this kill valid and I stated these before.

1. The OP was part of the group Svatnye that ZBOR had gotten KoS rights on.

2. The OP entered the area of the firefight willingly.

3. The OP may have been outside of the 500 meter radius, however without video proof we can't tell.

4. Even if The OP would have been outside of the 500 meter radius, he still willingly went there to help with the firefight. Putting himself in danger.

5. The OP not having proper communication with his own group is not our fault. But the fact that he came to assist would obviously indicate the opposite, that he was infact in contact with his own group.

----------------------------------

Now if you'll excuse me. It's currently 3AM in the morning and I will get some well deserved sleep. I will reply tommorow if requested so by staff, if not then I am sure that the Staff Team can figure out a proper verdict.

I would like to point out to staff that The OP has stated himself that he logged in to assist his friends. Please to investigate this and figure out if what he stated is considered ghosting, as I heavily believe that it is.

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1. There was no legit rights on me, you need to check the rules over again. That's just metagame how you think you recognized me

2. How wide of a firefight area can you actually claim when I am going around it. There were no specific bounds given to me and that still isn't an initiation

3. I got proof that I was at NWAF which I can send to admins if they actually request for that, you may drop it now

4. I was well outside and coulnd't have been identified, no possible way for that

5. Me being in the same comms with them from kilometers away doesn't share KoS rights

Why are you clinging on me being a part of Svatyne? Because you did not identify me as one of them. You're now somehow relieved and thinking that gave you rights to shoot everyone part of said group. If I was a complete stranger what would you claim then?

I'm going to answer if staff requests, this back and forth isn't fun. I got my POVs there and they provide sufficient info for this case. Would be nice to know the other shooters since logs didn't get more people shooting at me.

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I'd just like to point out that, luck or not you are indeed Svatyne, and we did indeed have KoS rights on your group. You chose to try to help your group, as you stated in your pov, and you even after recieving my warning and telling you the safest place to be, you still chose to run around, and then into a field which is the literal place I told you the fight was taking place. And the thing is, in this instance you weren't a complete stranger, you were part of svatyne. In the past, plenty of people who have been moving in to try and help their friends, unidentified by their killers, and because they were in their group, it was made legitimate. 

Regardless of what you keep saying, I personally spoke to you, warned you of a firefight in the fields to my south, told you where a safe place to go was. You proceeded to outright ignore that warning, and then go around and into the field I warned you about. You specifically said that you logged on to help your friends, and you then came to the area, refused to abide by warnings given to you, and then proceeded to go into the firefight area. You are in their group, we had kos rights on your group, it is not our fault that your group got you involved into a fight.

As far as "How big of a firefight zone can we claim"? We can "claim" as much of an area as we're taking fire from. We took shots from the exact treeline that you walked next to, we took fire from the trees above stary, we took fire from the south of stary. We were actively fighting and chasing people in those areas. And you knew this as you, again admitted, to coming to help your friends. Regardless of anything, we had kos rights on you, as you logged on to help your group and you group engaged us in fighting. It is your groups job to tell you who has kos rights on you, and it's your groups job to inform you of where you should and shouldn't be. We still had kos rights on your group, and you were still warned to stay out of the area, and you still logged in knowing your group needed help. That alone shows your intentions.

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Right, once more.

I haven't heard of a rule regarding group KoS, on Desolation, sure or Mod rules due to XML. Don't refer to this being an excuse to shoot. You cannot down members of a group if they were not even taking part of hostilites. On top of that I was a long way from there which is why I couldn't quite just shoot at you then and there.

I did not head south which was claimed to be dangerous, at the time of getting shot I was heading away from you. Even if I planned to assist my friends is not an excuse. What I may or may not do in the future is not a hostile action.  

Here's how close I came to you alone. Probably should've known what I looked like. Why not shoot me there if I was shooting at you a minute ago with my AK101 Dragunov.

34b91d6794.jpg

I don't understand why this had to become such a hassle when it's a quite clear case of plainly shooting a person not part of the situation. You "identified" the wrong guy.

I did not commit hostilities, I did not carry a weapon you were getting shot by and there is no possible way I was identified as an aggressor. Have not had encounters with ZBOR. Last encounters were with a chedaki character long time ago, but my voice is quite distinctive that's for sure. Could've been a complete random person.

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Verdict:

Nikolai Zdena: Firefight Mis ID - Guilty


Reason:

A group of staff members has looked through this report and have reached a verdict regarding it.

Draghan, in this scenario your death, while it was clearly a Mis - ID on Zbor's part is also partially your fault. You stated it in your own post:

Heard my boys were having some problems so I decided to log in

This tells us that clearly you were logging on with intent to head towards them and lend them aid. While we are not disputing the fact that what you did was ghosting, because we do not see it as such. We are put off by the fact that you were heading to a firefight and are upset that you got shot. You were informed at one point in character what you were running in to. And as the quotes show above you were also aware OOC of what you were heading into. In the future we suggest that if you do not want to risk the chance of being shot, do not willingly run towards an area of a firefight that you were well aware of both IC and OOC, instead run away.

With that being said Nikolai, it is always your job to identify your targets. Giving the extenuating circumstances that Draghan was warned about the firefight in character, and also logged in specifically to lend aid we will be reducing your punishment to a Verbal Warning. If the OP had been unaware of the firefight going on this would have ended up in a harsher punishment for you. In the future we stress that you take all the steps to properly identify your targets to avoid misidentifying targets as you did in this situation.

With the above stated the following applies:


Outcome:

Nikolai ZdenaFirefight KOS - GUILTY - VERBAL WARNING 

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