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RoryJam

S1: Killing of Compliant Hostage, North of Sinistok - 01/05/2016 5:35pm

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Server and location: Server One, North of Sinistok

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME): 01/05/2016 6:35pm

Your in game name: Pavel Spilenski

Names of allies involved: Tsezar ZolotovVaclav KlvacDrew Griffin

Name of suspect/s: Tobias Bergman and company

Friendly/Enemy vehicles involved (if any): Friendly Offroad

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot): Post is uploading

Detailed description of the events:  Post and I were around Sinistok looking for camps and cars in the surrounding woodland. Whilst we were leaving the area, we heard a car moving, we tracked it down and found the car without a battery and a spark plug. Post went back toward Novaya Petrovka whilst I watched over the car. Post came back and we drove off to help Clapton, who was dying of dehydration near the dried out lake. We took the car from the woods and picked up Clapton and saved him. We then brought the car back to where we found it to return it to the people that we took it from. When we were greeted by Tobias who demanded that we stopped the car and had his weapon pointed at us as we approached him. We stopped the car and attempted to roleplay with him. We tried to return the car to them. After 10-15 minutes of awkward roleplay from him and refusing to see us returning his car as a good deed, he had a hostile attitude. We tried to be friendly, setting up a campfire and making a farming plot for food. Whilst doing this, Tobias announced that he was going to leave in the car. However, Post took the spark plug and the battery from the car as he had to find them in order for the car to work. Once Tobias found this out, things got hostile and we tried to come up for an excuse to leave. After putting the battery and the spark plug into the car, myself and Post sat into the car and were initiated on by Tobias and his friend tha emerged from the woods. Our overwatch, Clapton and Drew, proceeded to shoot at them and after Tobias died, his friend killed me and Post who were complying.

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We saw a car driving up to Sinistok, we wanted to borrow the car to legitimately pick up Clapton who stupidly went north without water and dying.  We honestly borrowed this car we found, grabbed Clapton, and returned it down.  It was all pretty harmless, we had no hostile intent, we were friendly with the party, tried to roleplay and know them, however, only one person would speak to us and the other 3 were hiding in the woods.  It kind of was disappointing as we just wanted to know about them, and none of them would come out to talk to us until the initiation was dropped.  I don't really understand the disinterest in RP.

When we asked/requested to use the car to go into Sinistok town, he seemed to agree, and we hopped in the car.  Then they initiated on us.  It was extremely confusing as I was being told several different orders, one told me to get out of the car, one said to stay in, one said to get my hands up, then get on the ground, then drop all my shit.  The guy with the skull mask seemed to have no interest in RP, but just hostilities especially when the first words are, "Drop all your shit on the ground."  I did what I was told the best I could, stayed down, and hands up.

Clapton (I assume) then took shots at the man, and despite myself fully complying, hands up on my head and Pat in the car were executed.  We posed no threat at all, we had no guns out, and both were given no opportunity to roleplay.  I understand in a firefight things get exciting fast, but that's really no excuse to kill two people who were fully compliant, and friendly the ENTIRE time.  We never even had our guns out while talking, we were making a campfire, and farm.

I want to note also we were technically initiated on originally upon driving back to the camp, Tobias pointed a gun at us and told us to stop the car, and tell us our names.  We didn't use our KOS rights despite feeling we were initiated on loosely.

[video=youtube]

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Calling in Tobias Bergman and  John Marshall to give their POV:

Logs:

17:37:44 | "Vaclav Klvac SHOT Tobias Bergman by SVD into head."
17:37:44 | Player "Tobias Bergman" has been killed by player "Vaclav Klvac"

17:37:51 | "John Marshall SHOT Pavel Spilenski by Fal into head."
17:37:51 | Player "Pavel Spilenski" has been killed by player "John Marshall"

17:37:49 | "John Marshall SHOT Tsezar Zolotov by Fal into Chest."
17:37:49 | "John Marshall SHOT Tsezar Zolotovby Fal into Chest."
17:37:49 | Player "Tsezar Zolotov" has been killed by player "John Marshall"

17:50:11 | "Drew Griffin SHOT John Marshall by SVD into pelvis."
17:50:11 | "Drew Griffin SHOT John Marshall by SVD into pelvis."
17:50:11 | "Drew Griffin SHOT John Marshall by SVD into pelvis."
17:50:11 | "Drew GriffinSHOT John Marshall by SVD into pelvis."
17:50:12 | "Drew Griffin SHOT John Marshall by SVD into LeftArm."
17:50:12 | "Drew Griffin SHOT John Marshall by SVD into LeftArm."
17:50:13 | "John Marshall DIED Blood <= 0"

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A

is coming soon, in a theater near you. The initiation occurs around 19:20

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A video is coming soon, in a theater near you.

Provide a POV if you're going to post in a report. Thank you.

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So my PoV:

So before all this happend. I had recently met up with John and his friends after we had picked them up and gotten back to our base two of them logged and so did I, after a while I heard from John that the car had might have been stolen so I rushed back to camp and saw the car so I ran torward it and wrote "stop the car". As they stopped I approach them with my gun up. I lowerd it and we started to talk while John got into postion in case something would happen. I asked them who they are how they knew about the car and if they knew who owned it since John and the other I had met up with said that they had other friends so I thought that it might have been them. After I had confirmed that they were not John friends I started to become more hostile and decided that I didn't want them to leave with the car. So then all that happend the reason I let them to enter the car is because realistically I would have the advantage. I never thought that they had a sniper otherwise I wouldnt have done that. And I'm sorry that the iniation got so messy me and John had very limited communication thats why you got so many orders :P. And I knew ooc that you probably were good guys and didn't want to steal the car or anything, but my character is always extremly cautios to people he don't know that's why I acted the way I did. As I see it they wern't hostages since they were still a threat to John since they still had their guns. So as you shot me down then of course John will shot back.

If you want we would love to speak about this in TS :)

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My POV:

So my group has had this camp for a while, I heard the car starting so I got into a position and waited for Tobias to get back to base and confront them. After some RP Tobias told them to get out of the car, at that point I revealed myself and told them to stay in the vehicle. One jumped out and I told him to get on the floor and drop his stuff. At which point their sniper shot Tobias in the head, I then proceeded to kill two men who tried to steal our car. The wierd part of this report is that they were never hostages, I simply told them to get on the floor and they decieded to shoot Tobias.

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My POV:

So my group has had this camp for a while, I heard the car starting so I got into a position and waited for Tobias to get back to base and confront them. After some RP Tobias told them to get out of the car, at that point I revealed myself and told them to stay in the vehicle. One jumped out and I told him to get on the floor and drop his stuff. At which point their sniper shot Tobias in the head, I then proceeded to kill two men who tried to steal our car. The wierd part of this report is that they were never hostages, I simply told them to get on the floor and they decieded to shoot Tobias.

I won't go back and forth, but AlexSwe when you initiate on someone, and yell orders you become a hostage. You took us hostage, you didn't ask or request, you made the ultimatum of either getting out of the car or you will shoot. At that point you have initiated, and if we comply we are your hostages. Even if you did not believe we were your hostages, there's no justification for killing unarmed men who posed no threat, and had their hands up.

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My POV:

So my group has had this camp for a while, I heard the car starting so I got into a position and waited for Tobias to get back to base and confront them. After some RP Tobias told them to get out of the car, at that point I revealed myself and told them to stay in the vehicle. One jumped out and I told him to get on the floor and drop his stuff. At which point their sniper shot Tobias in the head, I then proceeded to kill two men who tried to steal our car. The wierd part of this report is that they were never hostages, I simply told them to get on the floor and they decieded to shoot Tobias.

Why did you kill the two men? one that was told to go to ground and the other that was in the passenger seat. What reason was there to act like this?

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My POV:

So my group has had this camp for a while, I heard the car starting so I got into a position and waited for Tobias to get back to base and confront them. After some RP Tobias told them to get out of the car, at that point I revealed myself and told them to stay in the vehicle. One jumped out and I told him to get on the floor and drop his stuff. At which point their sniper shot Tobias in the head, I then proceeded to kill two men who tried to steal our car. The wierd part of this report is that they were never hostages, I simply told them to get on the floor and they decieded to shoot Tobias.

Why did you kill the two men? one that was told to go to ground and the other that was in the passenger seat. What reason was there to act like this?

Their people had just killed Tobias and I had to get moving to survive and continue the firefight, if the two people would lived they would pull out their weapons and shoot me when they got the chance. They killed one of my people and posed a threat to me, given the chance they would put me down. After all they were the first to shot. All of this happend because they tried to steal our car.

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Verdict:

John Marshall |Random Death Match (RDM)| Guilty



Reason:

After being reviewed by the staff team, we have come to a conclusion for an outcome. The first thing that is very clear to the staff team that reviewed this case is the lack of organization from the accused side of the initiation. Your orders were unclear, you did not know what you were trying to do during the robbery and were giving conflicting orders, one saying to stay in the car, other saying to get out. Tip from the staff team, don't stress out, initiations are going to be risky but getting nervous and giving clashing orders really do confuse the hostages. Another thing, as soon as you initiate they are your hostages. They were no threat to you at that point once they were inside the car or when they had their hands up. They are not responsible for the actions of their friends, and you must respect that so killing them while they were complying is in fact RDM. 

Never assume that it is "just them" always assume there are other people around when you initiate and that way you have a better understanding of your surroundings. In this case, you got taken down pretty quickly by their allies who were informed of your hostile intent. 

But as stated before, gunning down hostages is against our rules especially in this case here being they were no threat to you. You could have attempted hostage negations for your life, you could have put your hands up and complied to avoid getting shot or simple attempted to fight back, but what you choose as an option this is not what  the community want to see here in DayzRP.

In the logs only John here was shown killing the hostages, but let it be known, if Tobias also had shot at them, he would also be equally as guilty.

Therefore, we have come up with the following outcome:



Outcome:

John Marshall |Random Death Match (RDM)| 3 Day In Game ban + Banstrike (10 points)

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