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Bruce

Regarding Cannibalism and Kuru

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Bruce    0

Alright, so this is something I've been thinking about for awhile and since I'm bored you're getting another question thread.

We all know that you can't call out a cannibal purely on the fact that they have the Kuru laugh/cry, along with the noticeable twitch. For the most part, I agree with this since the person is just laughing randomly and could mean a number of things. But, what if the character you ecounter them on has been around  for over a year?

For example: My current character, Bruce, has been around since the beginning of 2015 and has encountered more cannibal/cannibal groups than he could ever wish for. Probably about 75% of these individuals have had the laugh/cry and eventually have been discovered to be cannibals by other means. However, at this point, could I not start to put two-and-two together and accuse them of munching on people for randomly laughing/twitching in the middle of a conversation? I understand that it's a game mechanic and not something that you wouldn't necessarily get for eating people IRL, but are we supposed to ignore that IC? 

At the moment, if you mention anything about someone's laugh and try to connect it to cannibalism they immediately jump down your throat for metagaming, which seems a bit odd. In my opinion, it only makes sense that an older character with numerous experiences would recognize it, but I haven't done so yet for obvious reasons. 

So, would this be acceptable? 

I'm not crazy attached to the idea, so feel free to call me stupid, but more opinions on the matter would be great!

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Voodoo    491

Its a tough one, I generally don't link it and just ask them what's with the crying or laughing. Obviously jumping straight into calling it Kuru is something I don't think anyone should do as I'm sure the condition wouldn't really be known until you played the game.

My honest opinion id say don't link it and go with the RP that they must be crazy or over emotional about stuff.

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Hatch    0

Try not to think of the cry as that one sound. If you find someone crying assume it may be due to another reason first, don't think straight away that it's related to cannibalism. As of now it's only one sound file, so the game mechanics let us know it's cannibalism yet try and be creative with the RP first.

There's discussion on this thread about Kuru: http://www.dayzrp.com/t-Turn-off-Kuru?highlight=kuru

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Hmmm...I mean, Kuru IRL causes symptoms that do include random laughing/crying, trouble walking and bad muscle coordination, and constant twitching. So if your character has a medical background or -like you said- has had their experience with cannibals, it should be OK to assume that they are cannibals. However, gotta see what the staff have to say about this.

Maybe we can turn this stuff into a part of the lore, now that a large number of people have had run-ins with cannibals?

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Issues    0

That's kinda how I had already been playing it. So if I need to stop that, I can.

My character has been obsessed with hunting and killing of cannibals for quite a while. He writes down every piece of information in a journal just in case something happens to him. So if he notices a pattern (ie. Cannibals have a twitch and strangely laugh from Kuru disease), I would assume he knows that people with those symptoms should at least not be trusted for the moment.

Anyhow, +1. This is a good point to bring up.

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Conor    254

Try not to think of the cry as that one sound. If you find someone crying assume it may be due to another reason first, don't think straight away that it's related to cannibalism. As of now it's only one sound file, so the game mechanics let us know it's cannibalism yet try and be creative with the RP first.

There's discussion on this thread about Kuru: http://www.dayzrp.com/t-Turn-off-Kuru?highlight=kuru

This basically sums up what I was going to post.

There are many ways to RP out people crying or twitching in-game and one of the last avenues of RP to explore should be the "OMG IT'S A CANNIBAL"

If I hear someone crying IG, I normally just ask what's wrong. Maybe they lost a close friend? Maybe they are just struggling to deal with the reality of their situation in the apocalypse.

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Faith    732

When someone crys IG I ignore it but they roleplay it out :/

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Bruce    0

Try not to think of the cry as that one sound. If you find someone crying assume it may be due to another reason first, don't think straight away that it's related to cannibalism. As of now it's only one sound file, so the game mechanics let us know it's cannibalism yet try and be creative with the RP first.

There's discussion on this thread about Kuru: http://www.dayzrp.com/t-Turn-off-Kuru?highlight=kuru

This basically sums up what I was going to post.

There are many ways to RP out people crying or twitching in-game and one of the last avenues of RP to explore should be the "OMG IT'S A CANNIBAL"

If I hear someone crying IG, I normally just ask what's wrong. Maybe they lost a close friend? Maybe they are just struggling to deal with the reality of their situation in the apocalypse.

Right, I'm not saying I should be able to immediately state, "You're a cannibal" since it would be rather scummy. But, rather if I can know they are (or be damn sure). Sure, someone could have lost a friend, relative, etc; however, would they also be noticeably twitching at the same time? What you're saying is what I (and everyone else) have been doing, sort of playing dumb. It's kinda the mentality of, "Once you've seen one, you've seen them all" at this point. If someone is RP'ing it out quite well and attempting to hide the the symptoms, then I probably won't address it, but the one's who don't that still use the fact you can't know is strange imo.

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From what I understand, the laugh is caused from extreme cases of cannibalism with the eating of the human brain. But eating human meat should NOT cause Kuru / twitch and the cry. From what I understand from staff is that you are to void the laugh and to not know they are cannibals based off it, as it can be seen as metagaming.

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Rory    1591

It's the same with finding a piece of human meat somewhere. You wouldn't know this was cut from a human body, but the game will tell you in your inventory ''Human Meat'' So saying it is human meat is metagaming.

What I am trying to say is - Be extremely careful how you RP it out when you see someone with a laugh like that. Just try to connect it to something else before you say anything about cannibalism as you wouldn't know why he's laughing weird in real life either, you would just ask or suggest something might be up, but in no way would you connect it to cannibalism as soon as you met them. 

That's why people jump down others throats for metagaming the crazy laugh etc. But I've seen tons of people RPing it out as something completely different.

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Kanen    108

Personally like others have said try not and see it as someone being a cannibal see it as someone upset or in need of help. Yes you may have seen a lot of cannibals in the past year but I wouldn't say you would be able to have the right to call them out for it as its just a game sound and it's not like we have many other sounds in game to represent crying or other emotions.

Obviously RP as you want to RP you could probably take a more distant approach and act a bit anxious or scared around them but I don't think someone crying because of Kuru is strong enough to start assuming they're a cannibal as the knowledge you have of them being that is from knowing the sound OOCly.

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Cid    333

From what I understand, the laugh is caused from extreme cases of cannibalism with the eating of the human brain. But eating human meat should NOT cause Kuru / twitch and the cry. From what I understand from staff is that you are to void the laugh and to not know they are cannibals based off it, as it can be seen as metagaming.

This.  The way Kuru is obtained in the game is a bit farfetched compared to how it is actually gotten, which is by eating infectious brain tissue from what I understand from some research.  It's a flaw in the design of the cannibal mechanic and I would love to see it changed to something else (or actually have more parts to a human when you cut it up, including the brain) so that it is a bit more... proper, but for now we have to deal with what we got.

I personally would avoid actually eating the meat unless you are fine with have the annoying laugh.  If you are around other people when eating the meat you could easily emote out eating the meat instead of actually eating it, or eat it and cancel before you actually eat the meat itself.  For the people who do have the Kuru disease in-game, some of the others in this thread have already said what you should and shouldn't do.  Don't immediately jump to conclusions, because that looks like some heavy metagaming.

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Keira    1471

It's the same with finding a piece of human meat somewhere. You wouldn't know this was cut from a human body, but the game will tell you in your inventory ''Human Meat'' So saying it is human meat is metagaming.

What I am trying to say is - Be extremely careful how you RP it out when you see someone with a laugh like that. Just try to connect it to something else before you say anything about cannibalism as you wouldn't know why he's laughing weird in real life either, you would just ask or suggest something might be up, but in no way would you connect it to cannibalism as soon as you met them. 

That's why people jump down others throats for metagaming the crazy laugh etc. But I've seen tons of people RPing it out as something completely different.

I have a question regarding this. Because it would be metagaming to know its human since it looks like any other piece of meat, what if you IC think its animal meat and give it to someone else to eat? Because that's powergaming according the rules, or is that just force feeding it to someone IG? I just want some clarification.

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Kanen    108

I have a question regarding this. Because it would be metagaming to know its human since it looks like any other piece of meat, what if you IC think its animal meat and give it to someone else to eat? Because that's powergaming according the rules, or is that just force feeding it to someone IG? I just want some clarification.

Never force feed anyone to eat Human meat always give them the choice. As you could have the possible chance of giving them Kuru or making them ill. This would be powergaming them to having an illness.

If you have them in an Hostage situation you can always ask them for permission to feed them the meat but personally I would state also in saying if it's cooked or not. For example "//Permission to feed Cooked Human Meat." Then that's there choice to say yes or no.

However if someone's hungry that you come across you could offer them the meat just saying you don't know what animal it came from and when they look at it they can decide if they will eat it or not.

Just basically never force feed it anyone as you could powergame illness on their character.

From my opinion on the opposite side if they try calling you out for carrying the meat then that would be meta-gaming unless they were there to witness you cutting up the body.

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gherig    3

If I were to make a suggestion I would say Not to notice it. There are other similar dieses that make you laugh cry shake etc and also Kuru doesn't actually kick in for a kind of long while but in the game it kicks in in about a hour or less...or more

another thing I think if you do eat human meat not to just brush it off im not saying you should eat more but in large amounts human meat can be addictive.

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Kanen    108

Right, I'm not saying I should be able to immediately state, "You're a cannibal" since it would be rather scummy. But, rather if I can know they are (or be damn sure). Sure, someone could have lost a friend, relative, etc; however, would they also be noticeably twitching at the same time? What you're saying is what I (and everyone else) have been doing, sort of playing dumb. It's kinda the mentality of, "Once you've seen one, you've seen them all" at this point. If someone is RP'ing it out quite well and attempting to hide the the symptoms, then I probably won't address it, but the one's who don't that still use the fact you can't know is strange imo.

As it's a mechanic in game for everyone's character model to act the same I don't think it would be right to say once you've seen one you've seen them all as everyone even cannibals are unique and wouldn't role-play the same. Like I said unless they are absolutely obvious about it and want you to know it from first approach I think you're just best of trying as different way of approaching the situation then just saying "oh you have Kuru you eat people".

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I have a question regarding this. Because it would be metagaming to know its human since it looks like any other piece of meat, what if you IC think its animal meat and give it to someone else to eat? Because that's powergaming according the rules, or is that just force feeding it to someone IG? I just want some clarification.

If you have a piece of human meat and meat from an animal (prey animals) in real life and you cut them and look inside, you can surely tell what is what if you have some knowledge about say hunting or butchering, Humans have more red bloodcells so the human meat will appear to be way darker, a very dark red color and the meat would be more 'rough' in consistency compared to say a cow, pig or dear meat.

So i belive if your character have some knowledge i would say take the meat and cut it, look at it and come with a guess, that doesnt have to be metagaming i would say, but then again we all have to step carefully in this.

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Sin    127

Its a tough one

Not really.  It's quite simple.  Just like ~90% of the fools who play cannibals.  Anyone who's lived through the apocalypse this long most likely has had the opportunity to observe these symptoms and discover their cause, or at least hear about it from other survivors.

What's tough is that staff relaxed their former stricture against playing psycho killers and cannibals.  Used to be disallowed, so only the people who knew how to get around the restriction managed to do it (what I'm actually saying here is that only really smart, skilled, excellent RPers could get away with it)  Now that everything's free game, everyone wants to act out their twisted power fantasy and become Mr. Badass McCannibal.  And somehow, the greater mass of players either can't recognize how boring and stupid that makes the game, or just don't give a flying fuck about anyone else's experience.  "You can't tell me what to do" they insist, then scurry about fouling the community nest.  Thanks, assholes.

Obviously, at this point in time, any rational actor will recognize signs of kuru, know the cause, and exercise caution around people presenting symptoms.  Of course this won't stop the childish masses from screaming "metagaming" when you do, but hey, you know, that's just something you're going to have to deal with, because people have the right to play the way they want to play and you can't force them to portray realistic and interesting characters, because that's just too damn hard.  After all, it's "just a game", isn't it?  If my way of having fun involves grabbing all the attention I can and 'getting kills' then who the hell are you to stop me?  This is a community after all, and that means that everyone is welcome and we all just have to tolerate one another's differences.

It's the same with finding a piece of human meat somewhere. You wouldn't know this was cut from a human body, but the game will tell you in your inventory ''Human Meat'' So saying it is human meat is metagaming.

I have a question regarding this. Because it would be metagaming to know its human since it looks like any other piece of meat, what if you IC think its animal meat and give it to someone else to eat? Because that's powergaming according the rules, or is that just force feeding it to someone IG? I just want some clarification.

I've heard that human meat looks like beef, though most reports say it tastes like pork.  Regardless, the fat associated with a cut of human meat is said to be more yellowish than beef tallow.  Characters who cook their own meals should be able to tell the difference given a little bit of experience.

As far as powergaming goes, that should only apply to force feeding someone human meat.  I'd entertain arguments against, since realistically this is something that could actually happen.


P.S. - Anyone who upon meeting another says "Oh, you have kuru, you must eat people." is cheating himself and others out of some potentially great role play.  Just as cannibals shouldn't emote as jibbering madmen, openly drooling for human flesh, the people who encounter them shouldn't throw down the "You're a cannibal" card at the first opportunity.  Dance a little.  Have some witty repartee.  Jockey for position.  Play the long game.

That's honestly what the problem is with most of DayZRP at this point.  Few people see the good in allowing a story arc to form and develop over time.

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Wolfe    0

I think the answer to this would be kind of iffy. Yeah, your character has been around for a while and while he may have seen that 99% of the people he ran into with the weird laugh and twitch turn out to be cannibals; it's not necessarily true. Someone could have multiple reasons as to why they have that kuru laugh RP-wise. Personally when I was in the Immortals, pretty much none of us in that group had the kuru laugh but most of the members were cannibals. So with that said, there's a lot of other ways to RP being a cannibal then eating human meat in game.

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Sofie    0

I mean there is a lot more symptoms to kuru than just the laughter/crying, that most people with the disease don't roleplay out for some reason. It would make it easier if people who were going to play a cannibal actually did use these symptoms as well so that you could approach them in a more natural way, asking why they are hurting or acting weird rather than just being emotional. Maybe even recommend for them to go to a doctor who actually have knowledge about such diseases. Because kuru is not really a well-known disease that people can diagnose or know what is caused by.

I would not act on having met a lot of people with emotional breakdowns, because this is a horrible world our characters are living in and the emotional part will follow. Remember that every person with kuru will have (in reality) different breakdowns that fit their personality, and that you can never really separate those who cry about just losing their friend and those who is just crying because their mind is unstable.

It is very difficult to agree on an answer here. I think that the people that play as cannibals have the right to expose their characters enough when they wish to get caught. There is a lot of risk cutting up dead bodies, carrying human meat and having to deal with the disease that there are plenty of opportunities to catch a cannibal, without focusing on their emotional breakdowns.

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Johnny    0

Here is my two cents on it not that anyone wants it. Over my time in dayzrp I have meet many cannibals of all different flavors and types. From quite back door cannibals like Kaiden Stone to crazy in your face ones like the clowns. Now I feel the both have a place and both types can be rp'ed out badly or really well that all comes down to the person. But that does not really effect the question at hand. I feel at this point people in the world would start to get a idea of what kuru is and could tell the signs. that being said BadRP is still BadRP if someone laughing and you start screaming cannibals that is clearly in bad taste. (Cannibal pun intended) but if we were allowed to use the signs to drive rp forward without fear of being reported for Metagaming it could improve rp instead of just being something we have to act like never happened. One last little thing I would like to point out is not everyone gets kuru just like not everyone is going to have the same recreations to it. I think it adds more to rp and its also one of those risks for people who decide to eat people... I would love to be able to take that info IC but I also understand why it could be considered meta game.

(The old cannibal couple in the "Book of Eli" is a great example. If you have not watched it i suggest you do.)

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Ghoozov    274

I have a question regarding this. Because it would be metagaming to know its human since it looks like any other piece of meat, what if you IC think its animal meat and give it to someone else to eat? Because that's powergaming according the rules, or is that just force feeding it to someone IG? I just want some clarification.

If you have a piece of human meat and meat from an animal (prey animals) in real life and you cut them and look inside, you can surely tell what is what if you have some knowledge about say hunting or butchering, Humans have more red bloodcells so the human meat will appear to be way darker, a very dark red color and the meat would be more 'rough' in consistency compared to say a cow, pig or dear meat.

So i belive if your character have some knowledge i would say take the meat and cut it, look at it and come with a guess, that doesnt have to be metagaming i would say, but then again we all have to step carefully in this.

That is a really valid point. If anyone has handled meat in their lives, they can sort of take a guess. Human flesh is definitely more rough to the touch than swine or beef. It is, just as Sommer said, a tad darker. Sometimes it could even transition to a greyish looking colour, depending on how long there has been no blood supply and other external factors.

Whatever the case, first reaction to the cry/laugh should be the normal "are you alright" (or variations of that) in my opinion.

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I have a question regarding this. Because it would be metagaming to know its human since it looks like any other piece of meat, what if you IC think its animal meat and give it to someone else to eat? Because that's powergaming according the rules, or is that just force feeding it to someone IG? I just want some clarification.

If you have a piece of human meat and meat from an animal (prey animals) in real life and you cut them and look inside, you can surely tell what is what if you have some knowledge about say hunting or butchering, Humans have more red bloodcells so the human meat will appear to be way darker, a very dark red color and the meat would be more 'rough' in consistency compared to say a cow, pig or dear meat.

So i belive if your character have some knowledge i would say take the meat and cut it, look at it and come with a guess, that doesnt have to be metagaming i would say, but then again we all have to step carefully in this.

That is a really valid point. If anyone has handled meat in their lives, they can sort of take a guess. Human flesh is definitely more rough to the touch than swine or beef. It is, just as Sommer said, a tad darker. Sometimes it could even transition to a greyish looking colour, depending on how long there has been no blood supply and other external factors.

Whatever the case, first reaction to the cry/laugh should be the normal "are you alright" (or variations of that) in my opinion.

I would say it should be completly ignored since its a game mechanic that makes you laugh/cry and not the players choice / decision, but i guess not all people handle things the same way.

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Bruce    0

Right, I'm not saying I should be able to immediately state, "You're a cannibal" since it would be rather scummy. But, rather if I can know they are (or be damn sure). Sure, someone could have lost a friend, relative, etc; however, would they also be noticeably twitching at the same time? What you're saying is what I (and everyone else) have been doing, sort of playing dumb. It's kinda the mentality of, "Once you've seen one, you've seen them all" at this point. If someone is RP'ing it out quite well and attempting to hide the the symptoms, then I probably won't address it, but the one's who don't that still use the fact you can't know is strange imo.

As it's a mechanic in game for everyone's character model to act the same I don't think it would be right to say once you've seen one you've seen them all as everyone even cannibals are unique and wouldn't role-play the same. Like I said unless they are absolutely obvious about it and want you to know it from first approach I think you're just best of trying as different way of approaching the situation then just saying "oh you have Kuru you eat people".

Like I've said three times now (once in that paragraph you just quoted) I have no interest in immediately stating someone is a cannibal as soon as they laugh. Give me a bit more credit than that. What I'm saying is that at this point we should be able to take the clear and obvious symptoms of Kuru as IC information and realize what it is. Because currently, if you even try to connect the two you will be guilty of metagaming. Also, I'm not sure the last time you encountered cannibals, but they are pretty much the same, unless you get an unique group like the Immortals, Clowns, etc. Cannibal RP hasn't really changed in the time I've been here.

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Zero    464

In reality, Kuru takes many years to develop, research has even concluded that it can take up to thirty years to actually so symptoms. In all honesty, I think it's extremely stupid to label noticing the laugh and linking it to cannibalism and it being "meta-gaming/power-gaming". If someone chooses to role-play as a cannibal, then they should suffer the consequences from choosing that play-style, that would be like playing as a bandit and getting upset because eventually a lot of people are your enemies. Your characters actions have consequences, and if a character who is a doctor comes along and can link the symptoms to kuru, then they should be able to do that.

So are we suppose to just ignore an in character as well as game mechanic? That's sort of ridiculous in my opinion. Last time I checked, when someone is upset and crying, they don't laugh, which is what the in game mechanic produces, a mixture of a laughing cry, akin to that of an insane knife serial killer. I don't know if anyone has seen the movie, but in The Book of Eli, the shop keeps and others in towns ask to see individuals hands so they can identify "the shakes", that way they would know if they were cannibals. Which would be something pretty interesting to see in game if settlements actually became a thing.

If you have a piece of human meat and meat from an animal (prey animals) in real life and you cut them and look inside, you can surely tell what is what if you have some knowledge about say hunting or butchering, Humans have more red bloodcells so the human meat will appear to be way darker, a very dark red color and the meat would be more 'rough' in consistency compared to say a cow, pig or dear meat.

So i belive if your character have some knowledge i would say take the meat and cut it, look at it and come with a guess, that doesnt have to be metagaming i would say, but then again we all have to step carefully in this.

That is a really valid point. If anyone has handled meat in their lives, they can sort of take a guess. Human flesh is definitely more rough to the touch than swine or beef. It is, just as Sommer said, a tad darker. Sometimes it could even transition to a greyish looking colour, depending on how long there has been no blood supply and other external factors.

Whatever the case, first reaction to the cry/laugh should be the normal "are you alright" (or variations of that) in my opinion.

I would say it should be completly ignored since its a game mechanic that makes you laugh/cry and not the players choice / decision, but i guess not all people handle things the same way.

But it IS the players choice / decision, they CHOOSE to be a cannibal, so they should have to suffer the consequences of playing that character. It's just like playing a bandit, you can't go around robbing people and expect no one to hold a grudge or make enemies.

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