Flashbangs and KOS

[FiftyFootAnt]

Current stated policy: Successful blinding of someone with a Flashbang is considered a hostile action and doing so without initiating is considered KoS.

Source: http://www.dayzrp.com/t-S1-NVFL-Trolling-07-02-16-00-45?pid=1354711#pid1354711

"A flashbang may be a non-lethal explosive device but it still affects players with effects like blinding and a loud noise."

My first question: Why? To elaborate, to the best of my knowledge Flashbangs (in game) deal no damage whatsoever; they exist solely to blind/deafen the target and thus gain a temporary tactical advantage. Provided that the thrower does not follow up with gunfire before the target(s) have had a chance to recover hearing and comply with verbal demands, I don't see a problem.

Second question (more of a suggestion): Why is this not clarified in the rules? Had I not happened to be perusing old Reports, I would never have known that tossing a flashbang ahead of me into a building could land me in trouble. Does this extend to smoke grenades? To holding up a portable lantern (which at close range produces a blinding effect that is even worse)? My understanding of the rules before was to initiate before attacking another player, but since flashbangs by themselves don't necessarily constitute an attack, now I'm not sure.

[Guest Callie]

Flashbangs in standalone (presently) can break legs, thus it could be attempted RDM or KOS. If the person is low enough on blood, this could lead to their death.

[Samaritan]

Surely it is classed as a hostile action and should therefore need an interaction with the intended target. Hostile action is covered in the rules.

And what Shark said. <3

[Black Phoenix]

Flashbangs can break legs, and from my understanding if used without an initiation it could be counted for attempted RDM or RDM if it actually does damage you.

//Edit: Sh4rk2f4st5m3

[Guest]

Like what Shark said, flashbangs are a potential weapon despite it's primary usage of being a tactical distraction. If people decides to throw a flashbang and then initiate. He runs the risk of the players not being able to hear or notice the text due to the blinding light. If one of the people in the squad affected by the flashbang was affected and potentially got injured it can be counted as attempted KOS. Same if I was to 'accidentally' misclick my firearm and shot you in the leg, it would be attempted KOS. This creates a similar effect which Shark has already explained, it the victim is low on blood or high in shock, it might just lead him straight to the 'I Am Dead' screen. Thus turning it into a KOS.

Does this answer your question OP?

[FiftyFootAnt]

It does, I was not aware they can break your legs (wut?). Since that seems like an unintended consequence of copying too much of the grenade mechanics over, if this is fixed in Beta so flashbangs cannot cause physical harm would the rules be changed to reflect this?

EDIT: Seeing as my original question was answered, can someone mark this Solved?

[Black Phoenix]

It does, I was not aware they can break your legs (wut?). Since that seems like an unintended consequence of copying too much of the grenade mechanics over, if this is fixed in Beta so flashbangs cannot cause physical harm would the rules be changed to reflect this?

EDIT: Seeing as my original question was answered, can someone mark this Solved?

There might be a possibility, but it might prove to be difficult to comply to certain demands if you're flash-banged to the point where your screen is just black/white for a certain period of time.

[Ellie]

-snip-

[Empress]

As requested by the OP I will mark this as /solved, but I will leave this open for further discussion.

To reiterate the answer, it is considered KOS or RDM, since it has the ability to kill a player/break legs.

[FiftyFootAnt]

Continuing discussion then....

Assuming a hypothetical Beta repair of the mechanics such that it functions as intended (i.e. not breaking legs/etc.), I would assume that effects from it would last a fixed amount of time, it being a video game and all. Could a system be worked out taking that into consideration? for example, players have X amount of time after being hit for a grace period? I'm mostly interested in figuring out a ruleset that would permit me to throw a flashbang defensively to cover my retreat.

[Ron]

Take a look at these that might help you out too:

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-A-Hypothetical-followed-by-a-question?highlight=flashbang

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-Flashbang?=Flashbang

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-Rules-regarding-smoke-grenades?=Flashbang

[FiftyFootAnt]

Interesting reads, thanks for finding those!

I can't say I personally agree at all with the grenade rules applying to smoke grenades... it seems like the flashbang/smoke grenades right now (after flashbangs get fixed) act as equalizers; by a group against an individual, overkill, but by an individual against a group, it evens the odds. Might assist lone wolves in avoiding getting dominated by every passing group that feels hostile.

[Emerald Knight]

The only time it should be used in my opinion is when you have been in an active firefight for a while and you want to end it.

You flash them and enter. End the violence.

[IAmJackBandit]

Interesting reads, thanks for finding those!

I can't say I personally agree at all with the grenade rules applying to smoke grenades... it seems like the flashbang/smoke grenades right now (after flashbangs get fixed) act as equalizers; by a group against an individual, overkill, but by an individual against a group, it evens the odds. Might assist lone wolves in avoiding getting dominated by every passing group that feels hostile.

You can't just outright flashbang someone as it is considered an hostile action and before a hostile action can take place an initiation has to be made. Although if someone does something to you to give you kos rights on them then flashbangs are ok.

[FiftyFootAnt]

Interesting reads, thanks for finding those!

I can't say I personally agree at all with the grenade rules applying to smoke grenades... it seems like the flashbang/smoke grenades right now (after flashbangs get fixed) act as equalizers; by a group against an individual, overkill, but by an individual against a group, it evens the odds. Might assist lone wolves in avoiding getting dominated by every passing group that feels hostile.

You can't just outright flashbang someone as it is considered an hostile action and before a hostile action can take place an initiation has to be made. Although if someone does something to you to give you kos rights on them then flashbangs are ok.

I got that... that was one of my initial questions that was answered. It IS considered a hostile action, etc. etc.; I'm stating my disagreement with the current status quo of what are *supposed* to be non-lethal devices (nice programming, devs) and trying to probe what people's opinions are on a possible rule change once flashbangs are fixed.

The only time it should be used in my opinion is when you have been in an active firefight for a while and you want to end it.

You flash them and enter. End the violence.

So you don't see them as useful for disengaging? Legit curious.

[Emerald Knight]

Disengaging no. In real life a flashbang going off would disorientate people making them angry, giving them one hell of a good reason to shoot you.

In game, it is just really, really irritating when people use it to get away from RP.

[FiftyFootAnt]

The idea would be to get far enough away/break line of sight by the time the effects wear off that you couldn't be targeted, thought outside of a city that'd be pretty hit and miss.

And to reference this guy's thread, sometimes I might just not want to get abducted and tortured. If I saw a group coming and perceived them as a legitimate threat, IMO it'd be displaying borderline NVFL to approach them.

[Lucky1911]

People need to remember that when flashbangs go off they are unable to see or here. This is something to remember when they initiate. This can prevent accidental KOS and RDM. Its better to initiate give ample time to comply before tossing a flashbang. But a thing to remember is that flashbangs can break legs and kill people by accident