S1 17:30 RDM NWAF

[Guest Mak]

Server and location: S1 NWAF

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME): 17:30 31/01/2016

Your in game name: Giacomo Bonni

Names of allies involved: Reapers

Name of suspect/s: Logs will show

Friendly/Enemy vehicles involved (if any): Enemy hatchback

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot): [video=youtube]

Detailed description of the events: We were at NWAF and me and a mate were trying to get a lift off of these guys, things get pretty hostile as they start saying that we better leave and stuff like that. We start an argument, and the guy says he's all big and mighty, so I tell him I'll have to break it down for him 'cause he's not big and mighty, then I get RDM'd and the guy next to him gets attempted RDM'd.

[Guest]

HI, I shot you but please upload the WHOLE 40-50 minute video! Thanks I'll post my POV soon! If you want to go down this path then please make sure the whole evidence is shown in the video.

Do you want to discuss this on Teamspeak?

[Kanen]

Connection/Disconnection Logs:

 
15:17:28 | Player "Jamie Stewart" is connected 

Hit Logs: 

16:34:15 | "Jamie Stewart SHOT Giacomo Bonni by Winchester70 into leftarm."
16:34:15 | "Giacomo Bonni STATUS S::500 B::4500 H::4780 HP::0."
16:34:15 | "Jamie Stewart SHOT Giacomo Bonni by Winchester70 into leftarm."
16:34:15 | "Giacomo Bonni STATUS S::1000 B::4000 H::4580 HP::0."
16:34:15 | "Jamie Stewart SHOT Giacomo Bonni by Winchester70 into leftarm."
16:34:15 | "Giacomo Bonni STATUS S::1500 B::3500 H::4380 HP::0."
16:34:15 | "Jamie Stewart SHOT Giacomo Bonni by Winchester70 into leftarm."
16:34:15 | "Giacomo Bonni STATUS S::2000 B::3000 H::4180 HP::0."
16:34:17 | "Jamie Stewart SHOT Giacomo Bonni by Winchester70 into Chest."
16:34:17 | "Giacomo Bonni STATUS S::3500 B::1500 H::3580 HP::0."
16:34:17 | "Jamie Stewart SHOT Giacomo Bonni by Winchester70 into Chest."
16:34:17 | "Giacomo Bonni STATUS S::4000 B::1000 H::3380 HP::0."

Kill Logs:

16:34:17 | Player "Giacomo Bonni" has been killed by player "Jamie Stewart"

[Guest Mak]

I'll upload tue full 12 minutes video that my shadow play recorded as soon as I'm done playing, since I have a potato connection.

And no, I'll not be willing to talk about it on TS until you explain to me in this report why should I, and why according to you this wasn't straight up RDM during some hostile RP.

[Guest]

My Point of View will be posted upon the whole 40-50 video being uploaded, I'm currently playing and the video will help me explain my Point of View and clear up the confusion.

We'll wait until the video is posted so non of us withhold evidence, However if staff require me in the meantime, I'd love to discuss this on Teamspeak at your earliest convenience.

Sorry

- Thanks Jamie

[Conor]

My Point of View will be posted upon the whole 40-50 video being uploaded, I'm currently playing and the video will help me explain my Point of View and clear up the confusion.

We'll wait until the video is posted so non of us withhold evidence, However if staff require me in the meantime, I'd love to discuss this on Teamspeak at your earliest convenience.

Sorry

- Thanks Jamie

You will post your full PoV as soon as possible, regardless of what evidence has been posted in the report.

@Mak - Please can you get that video posted ASAP as well. Thanks.

[Guest Mak]

It's not 40-50 mins as I've said JamieStewart, it's 12 minutes long, but i'm about to upload it.

Edit: And I'd also appreciate you posting your PoV.

[Guest]

Sorry for the delay

Summary

- Guys notice our car on NWAF

- Friend tells them the car is full and we have no seats

- Pointless bickering about the car being filled

- "Boss-man" Told you to LEAVE the area multiple times

- You chat shit infront of 3 heavily armed individuals with snipers in the hills

- You refused to listen and kept bickering about crap

- Warning shot was fired at the lights on NWAF to tell you to piss off

- You stuck around and played dumb to the whole ordeal claiming "We shot at you"

- You were given 60 seconds to leave the car alone and wouldn't listen to commands to leave us be

- After the 60 seconds was up and the clear was given (I was the sniper) I shot & Killed you & shortly after was killed

- After the whole ordeal it was clear to us all you did was bait and bait until we HAD to take hostile action against you.

PoV (Non summary)

So we finally had a car (Offroad) Very proud and protective of such we wanted to keep the car safe & secure, Anybody that came towards the vehicle was kindly asked to leave and all of them complied after some banter, We see two people enter the area and start heading towards the car (You & The guy in black)

You were asked kindly to leave the vehicle like everybody else and refused to leave, I had heard on the radio the "Boss man" Wanted you guys gone and you had 2 minutes to vacate the area or action will be taken, You stuck around and eventually the "Boss man" waddled down to come RP with you after you refused to do anything else, You were then WARNED AGAIN in a more hostile tone and told if you don't leave the area shots will be taken.

I get the clear to shoot a warning shot at the light and you noticed it and claimed "We shot at you" Although the two guys (My guys) were saying "That was a warning shot" You stuck around clearly trying to get us to argo you... You were THEN given 60 seconds to once again get away from the car (After about 20 times saying it) You kept coming up with the same old crap and wanted a lift although we told you the car was full.

Eventually I shot you.. Once in the arm & chest to pretty much kill you for not complying and clear baiting in my opinion, We had given you hostile threats to leave and yet you refused, The warning shot should of scared your character however you knew the rules and stayed put, After I shot you your guys from up the tents area started to rain bullets down the airfield towards my guys resulting in the two deaths of allies, I circled around to try kill another when I noticed a guy up by the industrial barrack and died shortly after.

Throughout all this whole ordeal we knew what was happening but gave you the benefit of the doubt until I couldn't be arsed to listen to somebody who is spouting the same old conversation although being repeatedly told in both a nice and aggressive manner to leave, I feel that you knew what you were doing in terms to avoid the rulebreak and forced us to a gun fight, We simply wanted some closure around the area.

The whole ordeal time wise

I'm sorry but no ways in Gods Green earth was the WHOLE ordeal from START to FINISH only 12 minutes long, We were constantly going back and forth for roughly 40-50 minutes of constantly telling you to please vacate the area of the vehicle, We had no problems with you running around the airfield as we thought nothing of it and generally like to help people when we're playing a specific set.

After reviewing -

I may of shot early however I feel it justified after the excessive baiting and forcing us into a gun-play. It's not our priority as a group to shoot people and it never will be, We generally wanted to RP with the vehicle once the wheel had been repaired, I feel that you merely did all this to gain a vehicle rather than Roleplay like you should.

You were shit talking constantly and were generally being an ass which is fine however I feel that given the circumstances of the whole ordeal YOU WOULDN'T sit there and disrespect 3 fully armed guys knowing FINE WELL we had two more snipers in the fields, You disrespect because you knew you had friends that were waiting for the action.

---- Side note ----

I will not be posting on the player complaint for a while, I attend university and will be gone from 9am until 6pm, Sorry for any inconvenience

Edit: apologises although stated in the above "Shots will be taken" After confirming with group we cannot remember exactly what we said (Video will show) Sorry for any inconvenience.

[Guest Mak]

Sorry for the delay

Summary

- Guys notice our car on NWAF

- Friend tells them the car is full and we have no seats

- Pointless bickering about the car being filled

- "Boss-man" Told you to LEAVE the area multiple times

- You chat shit infront of 3 heavily armed individuals with snipers in the hills

- You refused to listen and kept bickering about crap

- Warning shot was fired at the lights on NWAF to tell you to piss off

- You stuck around and played dumb to the whole ordeal claiming "We shot at you"

- You were given 60 seconds to leave the car alone and wouldn't listen to commands to leave us be

- After the 60 seconds was up and the clear was given (I was the sniper) I shot & Killed you & shortly after was killed

- After the whole ordeal it was clear to us all you did was bait and bait until we HAD to take hostile action against you.

PoV (Non summary)

So we finally had a car (Offroad) Very proud and protective of such we wanted to keep the car safe & secure, Anybody that came towards the vehicle was kindly asked to leave and all of them complied after some banter, We see two people enter the area and start heading towards the car (You & The guy in black)

You were asked kindly to leave the vehicle like everybody else and refused to leave, I had heard on the radio the "Boss man" Wanted you guys gone and you had 2 minutes to vacate the area or action will be taken, You stuck around and eventually the "Boss man" waddled down to come RP with you after you refused to do anything else, You were then WARNED AGAIN in a more hostile tone and told if you don't leave the area shots will be taken.

I get the clear to shoot a warning shot at the light and you noticed it and claimed "We shot at you" Although the two guys (My guys) were saying "That was a warning shot" You stuck around clearly trying to get us to argo you... You were THEN given 60 seconds to once again get away from the car (After about 20 times saying it) You kept coming up with the same old crap and wanted a lift although we told you the car was full.

Eventually I shot you.. Once in the arm & chest to pretty much kill you for not complying and clear baiting in my opinion, We had given you hostile threats to leave and yet you refused, The warning shot should of scared your character however you knew the rules and stayed put, After I shot you your guys from up the tents area started to rain bullets down the airfield towards my guys resulting in the two deaths of allies, I circled around to try kill another when I noticed a guy up by the industrial barrack and died shortly after.

Throughout all this whole ordeal we knew what was happening but gave you the benefit of the doubt until I couldn't be arsed to listen to somebody who is spouting the same old conversation although being repeatedly told in both a nice and aggressive manner to leave, I feel that you knew what you were doing in terms to avoid the rulebreak and forced us to a gun fight, We simply wanted some closure around the area.

The whole ordeal time wise

I'm sorry but no ways in Gods Green earth was the WHOLE ordeal from START to FINISH only 12 minutes long, We were constantly going back and forth for roughly 40-50 minutes of constantly telling you to please vacate the area of the vehicle, We had no problems with you running around the airfield as we thought nothing of it and generally like to help people when we're playing a specific set.

After reviewing -

I may of shot early however I feel it justified after the excessive baiting and forcing us into a gun-play. It's not our priority as a group to shoot people and it never will be, We generally wanted to RP with the vehicle once the wheel had been repaired, I feel that you merely did all this to gain a vehicle rather than Roleplay like you should.

You were shit talking constantly and were generally being an ass which is fine however I feel that given the circumstances of the whole ordeal YOU WOULDN'T sit there and disrespect 3 fully armed guys knowing FINE WELL we had two more snipers in the fields, You disrespect because you knew you had friends that were waiting for the action.

---- Side note ----

I will not be posting on the player complaint for a while, I attend university and will be gone from 9am until 6pm, Sorry for any inconvenience

It's 12 minutes long because that's the amount of time my shadowplay is set to record, and in no time did you initiate on me, you simply told me to go, in order for me to be "non compliant" as you've said, you would've had to initiate on me first, then you could've shot me (thing that you did not do). And in regard of the baiting accusation, never did I force you to initiate, I had the feeling you wanted to do it, but never forced you to. You could've given me the lift, left or done something else, instead you RDM'd me.

To sum it up, warning somebody to leave with an hostile tone is not enough to give you KoS rights on him, it's stated in the rules what does and what does not grant such rights.

The only thing I'm going to post after this is the full and unedited video which is being uploaded right now (unless asked by staff obviously) in order to prevent any major back and forth.

edit: don't lie, bossman never said that shots would be taken if we did not leave, it's in the video.

[Guest Mak]

[video=youtube]

As you can see no initiation was involved from either sides, and the bossman never said that "shots would be fired" if we didn't leave.

[Guest]

I don't think you noticed so I'll just make it clear here, I edited the above comment with the following:

"Edit: apologises although stated in the above "Shots will be taken" After confirming with group we cannot remember exactly what we said (Video will show) Sorry for any inconvenience"

It's a shame that your shadow play only recorded 12 minutes of a whole 40-50 minute conversation of us constantly telling you to leave & Giving you warnings to vacate (Before warning shot) It's convenient for you however a huge chunk of the story is missed from the video evidence which I'm sure you're aware of

Tomorrow I will be free from 6pm onwards, If possible I'd like to discuss this in the presence of staff so that we may both go through the story together if this is possible? I feel that given the circumstances of these past events it would be beneficial for both parties to attend and discuss it through whilst a staff member listens in (If available) (If not we'll record)

I look forward to hearing from you

- Jamie

Edit 1:

Five questions if you don't mind answering

1) Why did you stick around so much hostility?

2) Why did you ignore our attempts to make you leave knowing we had additional?

3) Why didn't you take a "LIVE" Warning shot seriously? (I'd be shitting myself)

4) Why didn't you take our warnings seriously? (Sticking around when you shouldn't)

5) Why would you insult our "Boss man" infront of 3 heavily armed guys with snipers in the area? (Wouldn't you be careful?)

I feel these questions are relevant to the report as a whole.

[Eagle]

pov:james Keith 

after I looked over all the pov I can see I can not add allot of information to the report but the fact that there indeed was a rude argument with the guys for the entire time I was afk I came back and I get told that Ryan was being rude to him and even when i came out off the car he told the op to leave i might have video of it and will add it to the pov if I find one.

Edit:

i was afk for about 20 mins

[YungPanda]

POV posted tomorrow

[Guest Mak]

I don't think you noticed so I'll just make it clear here, I edited the above comment with the following:

"Edit: apologises although stated in the above "Shots will be taken" After confirming with group we cannot remember exactly what we said (Video will show) Sorry for any inconvenience"

It's a shame that your shadow play only recorded 12 minutes of a whole 40-50 minute conversation of us constantly telling you to leave & Giving you warnings to vacate (Before warning shot) It's convenient for you however a huge chunk of the story is missed from the video evidence which I'm sure you're aware of

Tomorrow I will be free from 6pm onwards, If possible I'd like to discuss this in the presence of staff so that we may both go through the story together if this is possible? I feel that given the circumstances of these past events it would be beneficial for both parties to attend and discuss it through whilst a staff member listens in (If available) (If not we'll record)

I look forward to hearing from you

- Jamie

Edit 1:

Five questions if you don't mind answering

1) Why did you stick around so much hostility?

2) Why did you ignore our attempts to make you leave knowing we had additional?

3) Why didn't you take a "LIVE" Warning shot seriously? (I'd be shitting myself)

4) Why didn't you take our warnings seriously? (Sticking around when you shouldn't)

5) Why would you insult our "Boss man" infront of 3 heavily armed guys with snipers in the area? (Wouldn't you be careful?)

I feel these questions are relevant to the report as a whole.

If you knew how shadow play worked, my friend, you would not be making sly remarks on how the video is "conveniently cut", but would know that it is set to record a set amount of time of gameplay prior to when you hit the hotkey, that in my case is set to 12 minutes.

Tomorrow I'll be on after 20:30 server time.

1: was trying to get a lift or something out of the situation

2: because I did not want to leave, some of you were telling me I could have a lift, some of you no, so I wanted to figure things out.

3: I very much did, hence why I kept asking you why the fuck you shot at me.

4: I took your warnings to leave seriously, but did not feel like it was necessary for me to actually leave.

5: because he was treating me like shit.

Now that I've answered these questions that to my eyes are very irrelevant, I'd like to remind you again that in order to gain KoS rights on somebody in such a situation, the person has to be non compliant after a proper initiation (thing that you haven't done). And the simple fact that I did not want to leave does not grant you rights.

I don't want this to become a back and forth, so I stress that nobody posts anymore until tomorrow's conversation.

[Payninator]

Will post my pov later, and will reply to all above where you are in the wrong

[Breadman]

NOTE: I was the 2nd Party with Mak, asking for a lift, if needed i will post a Pov But only if admin requires.

[Payninator]

Hi all

I was the "boss" I this situation.

I informed the op to leave the car as we would not be able to give him a lift!. In person and also through one of my team members over the radio.

The information given over the radio passed on by my team members is that "he would a have 2 min to leave the area" as I didn't want im near my car! he preceded to harass my team member staying around the car and no listening to us! he asked to speak to me multiple time which I finally came out from cover/making my way over to NWAF.

when I was speaking to the op he still refused to leave after, I had listen to the man points and I informed the op there was no room in the offroad and that we couldn't take him anywhere, he still persisted to stay around the area and wouldn't leave. that this point I had enough of the man and told him in leave in 60seconds or else. he continued to stay and talk even though I told the op to leave. and had given him a time limit with a warning shot on the floor to show we was serious from my back up and overwatch.

The op asked what will happen after 60 seconds(playing dumb) and I said "you know what will happen" he still refused to leave and then my allies had enough with the op after continuous back and fore of telling the man to leave, after this around 15mins+ of telling him to leave Jamie took the first shot!

We gave this man multiple chance's to leave the area with warning shots and a time limit, he didn't leave which ended his life I don't see how you have a case with the information given when you has plenty of chances to leave the area with your life with initiation involved throughout the conventions.  

Thanks Josh Archer

---

Op's words

1: was trying to get a lift or something out of the situation

2: because I did not want to leave, some of you were telling me I could have a lift, some of you no, so I wanted to figure things out.

3: I took your warnings to leave seriously, but did not feel like it was necessary for me to actually leave.

4: because he was treating me like shit.

My reply

1. you where told by the boss to leave and you could have a lift after 10-20mins of rp

2. one man told you we could sort a lift out another time, Then the Boss me told you we couldn't give you a lift.(if a boss tells you no at a job or a store it over rules everyonr else same situation the boss (leader told you no and and LEAVE)

3.you took them seriously but you didn't leave? why!

4.treating you like shit (my rp character in this situation)

[Guest Mak]

The thing you do not understand is that you need to initiate on me properly before shooting, I don't know why we're even discussing about my reasonings of being around the car, you straight up RDM'd me without initiation, and that's a fact.

I also now refuse to talk it out on TS since it seems like you guys are so sure you acted accordingly to the rules. A conversation would not bring anything productive on the table.

Thanks, now let's stop posting once and for all as I've said, I recon staff has enough to work with, and if not they will let us now.

[Manic]

NOTE: I was the 2nd Party with Mak, asking for a lift, if needed i will post a Pov But only if admin requires.

Please post your POV.

[Guest]

I was really looking forward to discussing this on Teamspeak, I understand your reasons however as stated above, The Teamspeak discussion was beneficial for both parties, If you still do not want to discuss this whole ordeal on Teamspeak then so be it, I just felt it was necessary as it'd be myself and you (With staff) ( I MADE PLANS TO COME TALK D: )

Staff I'm always free if you would like me to come in and discuss this with you.

I'm still free until late tonight if you change your mind

Thanks

Jamie

[Breadman]

POV: Myself Mak and a few others who i cannot recall all part of the reapers were on the nw airfield, mak noticed a car down at the bottom of the airfield, so we both headed over and began to talk, although there party was sketchy they spoke and rp,ed with us well, i understand the sketchy descution because after all 2 men walked up to there car. After a while of regular descution on how to fix the car and who they were waiting for mak asked for a lift several times, a man returned after afk in the back seat and jumped out and begin to rp normally with myself and mak, he said that there was a possibility of a lift, time went on and mak continued to bug for a lift when one man said "the boss man said you cant have a lift and have to go" we then continued to bug the men and try to get a lift which after all was the outcome we wanted, one man said you have 60 seconds to leave i then said or what a number of times, with no response, a little later i got " we dont want this to get out of hand, sooner the boss man said that we should leave, me and mak still did not leave and wanted to talk to the man. a warning shot was fired, mak responded and was not intimidated by the men. the boss man came over reluctantly after i ran over to him when he was hid in the trees (he left his pos before i had direct contact and walked to me) we than had a descution on the proposition of a lift, they boss man said no, hostile rp began to take shape, the boss man began to raise hostilities however not a lot, i then quote "we dont want anything to go down" the to had an minor argument about being big or mighty and mak was shot.

Some notes:

As you can see there was not clear or obscured initiation, we had not been told to leave or lethal action would be take, we were simply told to leave. I also feel the rp the Boss man created was not good as there was not good cohesion with what his friends had told us.

note: unless said quote some statements may not be 100% accurate

mak was shot dead with 2 rounds, i was shot once unconsious, i was revived by team who took out the rest of there squad, we left the scene

[Jamie]

We are only asking for new POVs or new information that relate to the situation. Any unnecessary posts from now will result in points.

[Slash]

Verdict:

 

Jamie Stewart - KOS - Guilty

Giacomo Bonni - BadRP - Guilty

 

---

 

Reason:

 

We as staff have looked at all sides of the evidence provided and have come to a conclusion regarding this case.

There has been a lot of discussion between staff regarding this report and what is needed for an initiation to be valid.

Jamie Stewart, you shot the OP without a valid initiation. Neither you nor your allies ever initiated on him. You decided to shoot the OP for what you state as "not complying and clear baiting". First, we want to state that baiting is not a valid reason to kill/shoot someone. Second, you had no rights to shoot him for not complying as you and your allies never initiated. The rules show the following demands when initiating:

Your allies did everything an initiation needs except the crucial where they made their hostile intention clear. You had no rights to shoot the OP and therefore the KoS punishment is justified. Next time you initiate on someone you have to make your intentions very clear.

We also want to state that it's not allowed to give someone a "warning shot" in the way you did. When you fire at someone it's is a clear hostile action and by doing this you have given someone KOS rights on you but you haven't gained any on them. It counts as an invalid initiation. The same as if you would throw a flash grenade at someone.

Giacomo Bonni, throughout the video you provided we can clearly see that you are trying to bait Jamie and his allies into a situation.

As seen in the quote from the rules above you are not allowed to bait other players into situations where you can take revenge for their actions. You broke this rule as you were baiting out the initiation by asking things like "What will happen after 60 seconds?" and "I have sixty seconds and then what?". By doing this you knew that when they started giving you the answer on that question you and your allies would have gained KoS rights on their group. 

Now for the BadRP, you suspected as you stated in post 9, that they were going to initiate. As you suspected this there was no valid reason for your character to stay there. As heard in the second video you said "They are about to initiate on us" on teamspeak at 1:46. They asked you to go away multiple times but you decided to stay there and continue to feed the hostilities. This adding up with the baiting is clearly rule-play and therefore the BadRP punishment is justified.

With the above stated the following applies:

 

---

 

Outcome:

 

Jamie Stewart - Kill on sight (KOS) - 7 days, 10 points

Giacomo Bonni - Bad RP - 5 days, 10 points