S2 Metagame of Planned RP Event

[Jester]

Server and location:  s2 Devils Castle

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME):  06:30 Jan 11th

Your in game name:  Daniel Joiner

Names of allies involved:  JackLexton, Combat Logo, Duelly, edyhynot, dustup, Nik, Oyface. Jackgreen2, tlake, medicinebunny, rogerliboria

Name of suspect/s:  Loftin

Friendly/Enemy vehicles involved (if any):  none

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot):   Others may also have other evidence ( videos, screenshots ect )

[align=left]A conversation showing the planing of an RP event between the two groups

[align=left]https://gyazo.com/3e4c3e1dae3fb50e6b0cb1f11dd397b3

Coreena quoting a statement in group TS of suspect

https://gyazo.com/d29e18e928a6e0e1474528103ecfd008

Gif of suspect in a bush as he shoots Nik mid initation.

https://gyazo.com/3f1e3152b5518cec50649a8e79e346db

Loftin poking Nik

http://imgur.com/LjN0c23

[align=left]

Detailed description of the events:

Our groups made contact via Roger leborea, He expressed he had RP execution rights within the immortals as Coreena was planning on archiving the group soon. We agreed to help roger with the initiation and take part in this grand finally RP session for the groups farewell. We agreed to wait for them to get to devils castle and then we would come in and initiate on them, they would allow us to take them hostage so that we could start the RP which would hopefully eventually lead to character execution. I was the first one into devils castle a few minutes before anyone had gotten to the castle. I went to the top of the tower to act as look out and waited for the group to arrive. Eventually the suspects group trickles in, Loftin being the first one I made contact with. He comes up the tower and finds me there. I wave and introduce myself as Daniel and we start to talk about hunting deer and other animals and RP for about 10 minutes strait. Within that time another member of his group comes up the stairs of the tower and says hello. Rp continues.

Once all of the Loftin's group arrives he continues to stay in the tower. Until there is mention of the jackals from coreena and he rushes down the stairs as nik is found walking around the castle grounds. Nik starts to RP and then coreena becomes spooked and attempts to leave the castle. Meanwhile Loftin after running down the tower makes his way over to the fire and heads straight for a bush within the firelight and stands in the bush hidden.

As Nik initiates on the group he waits a second and then guns him down.

Typically this would be a valid kill, But in the instance of a planned group RP and the prior knowledge that we didn't plan to shoot anyone during the initiation as we were told that we would freely be allowed to take the hostages without resistance.

Loftin used this information to gain a tactical advantage and waited for the initiation of Nik to just get a free kill.

Both of our groups feel it is a clear violation of the communities meta game rule.

[Nik]

So the rp event was planned a while before between Roger and the rest of the Immortals. We begin the day by us meeting with Roger for the hunt. Being this event was planned and a set up we knew where they were. We set way for Grishino being the first meet up spot. Roger lets us know ingame as he is talking to the Immortals through their frequency on the way, that we are going to be switching meeting spots to Devil's Castle.

We continue there and set up positions. Our positions were designated for a non pvp environment and more set for the following up RP between the two groups. Many of my group sat in bushes until the initial initiation started so we can insure that nothing was messed up through being spotted (even though they knew ooc what was going to happen). Anyway from the woods while approaching the castle, Roger lets us know that we are going to be parting ways and we discuss a signal for the initiation.

Roger sets off to meet with Immortals at the front gate. Roger met one of them at the gate and the other two or three were in the castle talking with Jester. Roger waits for Destiny to meet at the gate and when she finally arrives they talk and walk to the center of the castle and gather around a torch.

 Before we even made any sort of contact Jackals were being mentioned. And the nervousness was at all time high, with no threat present. We follow behind Roger and set up closer to the fire. Only me and another went up since we thought it was going to be a smooth RP encounter. I walk up and say hi to Destiny and Roger. For some reason some of the Immortals were nervous even though our groups are basically allies. Anyway the talking continues and they start to leave, Roger calls Destiny over to the fire once again and he uses the clap signal which signals the start to the initiation.

Keep in mind all of the Immortals were around the torch talking besides one. The one being Loftin, sat in a bush right next to where I was standing seeming to wait until I made the move and then proceeded to gun me down before I could even finish my sentence as well as my boy behind me. We didn't want blood as we thought it was an rp event between us. We could've taken pvp positions to kill but we didn't because we were informed this was a planned thing.

We talked to Loftin afterwards and he wasn't apologetic whatsoever, even after admitting he was wrong. He also said that he never complies and that he wanted to go out with a fight, even though that sets us at a disadvantage for the simple fact that it was a planned event where everyone would comply.  He also told a few of the immortals in there comms that he was glad he fucked up the encounter.

I just feel bad for everyone that was ready to RP in both groups and instead it erupts in a gunfight because someone changed there mind and wanted to get two easy kills.

[sung]

Calling in Loftin to give their point of view

Logs will be added as soon as possible

[Loftin]

First off i was told to get in game so we could all meet up and begin to destroy the group from the inside. I loged into vybor indurstal and began to make my way to Grishnio because i was told we are meeting the jackles there. After i arrived there i do what my character always does and got an overwatch possition. Soon after two people show up and begin to talk to my friends and i thought it was the jackles. However about this time Roger came into the channel and i asked him if the jackles have arrived yet. He said the jackles are not coming to Grishno and that we sould move because people are bad news. So he insisted on going to devils. I agree and went along with Marco and Marksman. Soon after we are able to see the castle i again do what my character always does and ran to a good over watch spot. At this time i had no clue the jackles were going to show up for i was told that they were not coming. So i got to the top of the tallest tower and met a man up there. I just thought that he was up there looting but he tells me that hes been living up here for some time now. I proceed to tell him about how i come here to hunt. While we are looking around the fields for animals  Marksman shows up and we again begin to talk. While this whole ting was happining i was muted in TS so i could hear ingame. Eventually i hear the call that we were leaving so i begin to decend down the tower. And i hear voices. Both me and my character are not very trusting so i ran to a near bush for some cover. I thought this group was just some randoms at the time so i didnt even make an attempt to rp because i assumed that we were leaving. IT was about this time when i hear a guy tell my group that they shouldd put their hands up. So out of instinct i didnt comply. I walked out of the bush and shot him and by that time i unmuted my mic in TS and found out that it was the jackles. I had no prior knowdledge that they were going to show up. After i killed the first one i ran back into a tree where a second jaclke followed me. At this point i ran off into another tree where i hid for the remainder of the firefight. After i foundd that it was the jackles i stopped killing and hid. The say in thier POV that i was not apologitic but i was i even said sorry to them.  The only proof i have are a list of my pokes showing where i poked trying find out what was going on

https://gyazo.com/ae167a55c3adfae6a1f5ddc5c6605629

I would also like to add that the only reason i saidd i was guilty at first was because i had thought that no matter what i would be banned. However someone toldd me that even i if i think that i should still fight it so heres my POV

[Ellie]

I'm guilty lets get this over with.

Can you please post a detailed POV about the events.

[Loftin]

I would also like to point out that the immortals never had any direct communication with the jackles. And the jackles never spoke directly to us about the RP event. There was a third party namedd Roger Leboria. It is possible there were quite a few miscommunications going on because both our groups were using him to send information to the other.

[Nik]

I would also like to point out that the immortals never had any direct communication with the jackles. And the jackles never spoke directly to us about the RP event. There was a third party namedd Roger Leboria. It is possible there were quite a few miscommunications going on because both our groups were using him to send information to the other.

Roger is apart of the immortals though. He isn't third party, he's in your party. It seems like there was a lot of mis communication between what was going on. How you didn't realize it was Jackals, I don't understand. Destiny, Roger, and I talked in front of all of you, so obviously you saw me.

Our communication was set, roger give's us a signal and we start the event which involved you too, so it really surprises me that you did what you did. We had 3x as many people as you and we could have easily surrounded you but I only came up for the simple fact of the RP and the guarantee of our safety. We were asked to do this event, we didn't have too.

We have never done an event with planning like this before with another group. Usually we worry about our own safety but for the sake of a potential good ass night rp'ing we went along with it. Since our safety was promised to us we let out guard down and you took advantage of that for no reason and ruined the night for many.

I don't want to see anyone get in trouble, if they aren't wrong. But you said straight up that you were glad you fucked everything up, and that's shitty.

[Loftin]

I would also like to point out that the immortals never had any direct communication with the jackles. And the jackles never spoke directly to us about the RP event. There was a third party namedd Roger Leboria. It is possible there were quite a few miscommunications going on because both our groups were using him to send information to the other.

Roger is apart of the immortals though. He isn't third party, he's in your party. It seems like there was a lot of mis communication between what was going on. How you didn't realize it was Jackals, I don't understand. Destiny, Roger, and I talked in front of all of you, so obviously you saw me.

Our communication was set, roger give's us a signal and we start the event which involved you too, so it really surprises me that you did what you did. We had 3x as many people as you and we could have easily surrounded you but I only came up for the simple fact of the RP and the guarantee of our safety. We were asked to do this event, we didn't have too.

We have never done an event with planning like this before with another group. Usually we worry about our own safety but for the sake of a potential good ass night rp'ing we went along with it. Since our safety was promised to us we let out guard down and you took advantage of that for no reason and ruined the night for many.

I don't want to see anyone get in trouble, if they aren't wrong. But you said straight up that you were glad you fucked everything up, and that's shitty.

because we used a third party, Roger did not inform you that I was not going to comply. In the chat logs in the screenshot sent from Coreena to Roger you can see her warning him that some of us will comply if we feel the need to - that is a threat of danger. He didn't communicate that to you properly and that is not my fault. So your guard was let down and I wasn't aware of this. My character rarely ever feels the need to comply because I can easily make it out of situations like these because I'm good at it.  I was in a bush because I am the main overwatch of the group, I am here to protect them. Coreena assigned me as the overwatch person for tonight.  And she assigns someone every night that we rp. The situations that we're going on before the initiation is more than enough reason for me to hide in a bush and watch my people. Roger failed to make it clear to you guys that some may not comply therefore you overlooked me. I was simply role-playing out my character. I had no intention of "ruining" everyone's fun

[Jester]

The intentions of both groups were clearly understood.  Why would we agree to not take your gear when taking you hostage OOC unless we had some guarantees there would be no issues.    As stated in the conversation between Coreena and Roger it was pretty damn clear.  After the event even members of your own group came in our TS and said they didn't understand why you acted the way you did despite it being discussed and apologized on your behalf. 

When we spoke with you decided to not listen to anything we had to say, making excuses the entire time as to why you decided to change from complying to non complaint without telling your group.  You blamed us for not watching you and taking every precaution to disable you in a situation we were insured was going to just be an RP initiation by a member of your group.     If your saying we should have spoken to each of the members of your group individually to make sure they understood what was happening that is just ludicrous.

And if somehow you didn't know the plan, you knew the intentions of the plan,  I and 6 others heard Coreena say she explained it to everyone and they were all unmuted and listening to her speak in your TS comms.  

She herself even states you are guilty of meta gaming, as well as memebers of your own group. Not just me, and not just the jackles 

When this report came up you were willing to admit your mistake, Then coreena brought up the fact its hard to prove metagaming in this instance and told you to continue to fight it as you wouldn't get into any trouble.

[Loftin]

The intentions of both groups were clearly understood.  Why would we agree to not take your gear when taking you hostage OOC unless we had some guarantees there would be no issues.    As stated in the conversation between Coreena and Roger it was pretty damn clear.  After the event even members of your own group came in our TS and said they didn't understand why you acted the way you did despite it being discussed and apologized on your behalf. 

When we spoke with you decided to not listen to anything we had to say, making excuses the entire time as to why you decided to change from complying to non complaint without telling your group.  You blamed us for not watching you and taking every precaution to disable you in a situation we were insured was going to just be an RP initiation by a member of your group.     If your saying we should have spoken to each of the members of your group individually to make sure they understood what was happening that is just ludicrous.

And if somehow you didn't know the plan, you knew the intentions of the plan,  I and 6 others heard Coreena say she explained it to everyone and they were all unmuted and listening to her speak in your TS comms.  

She herself even states you are guilty of meta gaming, as well as memebers of your own group. Not just me, and not just the jackles 

When this report came up you were willing to admit your mistake, Then coreena brought up the fact its hard to prove metagaming in this instance and told you to continue to fight it as you wouldn't get into any trouble.

Well it comes down to the simple fact that i really had no clue what was going on. Like i said before roger had told me the jackles were not coming and that we need to meet up at devils because there are less people. I was muted just about the whole time so i could hear you and in the time i was muted i guess coreena told everyone that the jackles were coming to devils. In that time i heard that it was time to leave and when we are leaving we are stopped by people that coreena knows. I go to a bush just incase things go south. Mostly because it seems that even coreenas IC friends are out to get her. Which is also the reason i dont trust many people for example just the other day a group of people whho i thought we were on good terms with held us up and robbed us.  The only reason i said i was guilty is because it would seem that if my own group said i was guilty there was no reason to fight because at that point everyone is against me.

[Roger]

Well it comes down to the simple fact that i really had no clue what was going on. Like i said before roger had told me the jackles were not coming and that we need to meet up at devils because there are less people. I was muted just about the whole time so i could hear you and in the time i was muted i guess coreena told everyone that the jackles were coming to devils. In that time i heard that it was time to leave and when we are leaving we are stopped by people that coreena knows. I go to a bush just incase things go south. Mostly because it seems that even coreenas IC friends are out to get her. Which is also the reason i dont trust many people for example just the other day a group of people whho i thought we were on good terms with held us up and robbed us.  The only reason i said i was guilty is because it would seem that if my own group said i was guilty there was no reason to fight because at that point everyone is against me.

You were informed extensively about this RP event, I even asked you before hand how you felt about pk Oscar, you told me you wanted to keep Oscar a live to do one last thing, and you also wanted to keep you gear. We explained to you about how this was going to be RP on OOC rails as to create a memorable end to the immortals, and you were well informed of the situation. When I came back into ts I immediately said we are going into IC comms and you most certainly heard me say that not just once, but two or three times. You then asked me if the jackals are still coming, so I responded Icly that no they were never coming (As you would have no idea about any of that IC). They was never any sort of OOC deviation from the plan, and its my belief that your now back pedaling to try and cover for your mistake. When I spoke to you immediately after the incident, you then told me you didn't care about the OOC agreements as you never verbally agreed to them; as if it was some way to cover yourself for what you did. You say that you were going off the IC situation as you thought things had gone wrong, this is a blatant lie. Marksman48 then spoke to me afterwards, telling me that while leaving grishino while I was muted in TS, you told him you planned on going out in a fight, and you didn't plan on complying. Marksman has no reason to tell anything but the truth, and considering how you were happy with your actions after the fight I feel like you decided before the initiation to prepare yourself IC for a fight. 

On the note of Oscar always taking over watch positions, I find that a questionable excuse at best. In ever encounter ive been in with Oscar he's been up front with his gun ready, not waiting five feet in a bush. 

I'm assuming that at the start you were on board with this, as you never said anything regarding your plan on non-compliance, and you never said a thing against it when I told you what was going to happen, nor when coreena explained it to you. It wasn't until later you got the idea to not comply, and it ended up ruining the entire RP event we had set up. Nothing you have said, nor the tone of anything you have said seems in anyway apologetic for what you did; in fact you were happy with yourself, and even bragged to me in TS about how many kills you got, then told Coreena how happy you were to have ruined the event.

[Conor]

Coreena has permission to post.

[Coreena]

The intentions of both groups were clearly understood.  Why would we agree to not take your gear when taking you hostage OOC unless we had some guarantees there would be no issues.    As stated in the conversation between Coreena and Roger it was pretty damn clear.  After the event even members of your own group came in our TS and said they didn't understand why you acted the way you did despite it being discussed and apologized on your behalf. 

When we spoke with you decided to not listen to anything we had to say, making excuses the entire time as to why you decided to change from complying to non complaint without telling your group.  You blamed us for not watching you and taking every precaution to disable you in a situation we were insured was going to just be an RP initiation by a member of your group.     If your saying we should have spoken to each of the members of your group individually to make sure they understood what was happening that is just ludicrous.

And if somehow you didn't know the plan, you knew the intentions of the plan,  I and 6 others heard Coreena say she explained it to everyone and they were all unmuted and listening to her speak in your TS comms.  

She herself even states you are guilty of meta gaming, as well as memebers of your own group. Not just me, and not just the jackles 

When this report came up you were willing to admit your mistake, Then coreena brought up the fact its hard to prove metagaming in this instance and told you to continue to fight it as you wouldn't get into any trouble.

Hi, I was trying to avoid making a POV on here because I didn't feel my input was all that necessary because there are chat logs and screenshots. However, with this last post done by Jester I feel its absolutely necessary. 

I had a conversation with Loftin regarding this report because that is what one of yours, Nik Chaos, suggested I do. When I was speaking to him, I asked him how he feels about being accused of metagaming. Of course, there are two sides to every report and accusation, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I noticed that he posted that he was guilty and he wants the ban to get over with. So I asked him, "Loftin, do you feel like you are guilty?" He responded with a no. Handling this professionally, him being a member of my group, I mentioned to him that if he does not feel he is guilty he should not say so. There is a possibility he is guilty, and there is a possibility that he is not - this is why in the community we handle things with reports. He assumed that because he was in a report that involved evidence, he had no chance, therefore he requested he get this over with. 

I explained to Loftin that he has a right to defend himself, this is why there are reports - so that things can be handled professionally. He also felt that there was no point in trying because he assumed all of his friends were against him and there's no way he could prove his potential "innocence." EVERYONE has a right to be able to defend themselves in instances such is this, and EVERYONE has a right to let an individual know that they have the right to do so. This is merely all I said to him, and I mentioned no where to him that reports such as these are hard to get through. Because of your screenshot of our "private conversation" he now does; that is the only way he knows about this. So please, do not make any accusations against me, or use my words out of context when this is a report that isn't against me. The conversation I had with you Jester was merely me stating my opinion to you, and I have the right to do so. I hope we can talk this out a little bit over teamspeak between me and you Jester so we can properly discuss this and come to some sort of understanding. 

My POV: 

Me, marksman, Loftin, and Roger made a plan for Marco to get captured by Roger and the Jackals. Roger was going to play as an inside man and get initiated on with us. Once we got to the location marksman (michael) and Loftin (oscar) found a man up at the top of the tower named, Daniel (jester). He was shit talking the jackals and saying they fucked up his face. Eventually one of us spotted Nik, the leader of the jackals in a bush. From an IC perspective, it was very odd how coincidentally a man shit talking the jackals was at the top of the tower, and we ran into Nik an actual jackals member hiding. From the immortals perspective, we see the jackals as up front people. They confront trash-talkers, yet their leader was hiding. I do believe Loftin could have made that connection, in his defense. Edit: (from loftin's POV apparently he did not know that was Nik).

Loftin's character has had previous experiences of sitting on the side-lines waiting to see if anything might happen; no matter what situation we are in. I did assign Oscar (loftin) as the over-watch guy for Grishino, so he could have assumed that he was overwatch for devil's castle as well. This can be confirmed if necessary. Loftin is the main pvper of our group and he generally waits for situations to kick off - it is how he rp's out his character. 

On the other hand, Loftin seemed from not only my perspective but Roger's as well, as if he was down for what was about happen and fully aware of it. Mid way setting up for the event, he changes his mind and decides that he no longer wants to be captured, he wants to go down fighting. Through the first screenshot given by Jester regarding the planning for the event I mention, "some of us will only comply if we feel the need to." We didn't want to break our characters for this so that they wouldn't normally do what they would normally do ICly. From my quote on that screenshot, I was referring to Loftin and whoever else sees an opportunity to not comply if the initiation was not done properly. So I made sure to tell him to set it up correctly. He seemed to have understood, however that clearly was not the case. I should have made it a bit more clear, that was my mistake; I will admit that. 

In my opinion, him standing in the bush was a little bit metagamey. It was however extremely odd how Loftin changed his mind mid the whole thing which kinda points towards the idea that Loftin knew this would give him an opportunity to get his pvp in for the day, and he would know that it would be coming. I believe that it could go both ways. 

I wish the event had gone according to plan and this didn't happen. I'm dissapointed with the way it went. I do know Loftin, and this sounds like something he might do. 

Edit: Mistake regarding initiation.

[Coreena]

There will be a video being uploaded soon.

[marksman48]

I'm stepping in here to post my POV. I was not called into this report, but I feel my video is too crucial to not share. I feel my gif was slightly taken out of context. I sent it to Nik because I personally found how he died pretty funny. It's fine that it's in the report, I just found the timing of it amusing.

Anyway, here's a the video of the relevant times:

[Ark]

Verdict: Loftin - Lying in a report/ Meta-gaming- Guilty

Reason:

After reviewing all the evidence provided the staff team reviewing this report have come to the following conclusion:

Loftin you state in your original Pov that you were guilty and would like to go ahead and get the ban over with. You then decided to change your original pov and refute your case after some inspiration from an unnamed source which is completely fine, however here is where the problems begin:

 You state that you were muted and as such you weren't aware the jackals where coming to the meeting after all. However in the video provided we see and hear multiple things; the first being at 1:20 in which we hear the mention of the jackals in character and  out of character via teamspeak. If you were indeed muted we could of looked over this fact about how you thought it was some random, however it turns out you weren't. At 3:36 the Owner of the video tabs out revealing his teamspeak here we see the following:

With this being discovered the evidence suggest that  you were indeed fully aware of what was occurring in game, and decided to get a few easy kills essentially ruining a pre planned event as the screen shot above was taken before you opened fire. Next time if you happen to find yourself in a report we suggest being completely honest with us to avoid this happening yet again.

Due to your in game actions and the lying in this report the following applies:

Outcome:

 Loftin - Lying in a report/ Meta-gaming- Guilty - Seven day ban plus one banstrike