Special Forces groups?

[WongRP]

So I just saw that special forces are no longer allowed as a group. Why is that may I ask? I mean if they roleplay properly and not be super-soldiers why is there a problem? 

I ask this because Staff and so say they want people to be creative and not do the same things over BUT when it comes to it they say this,that and everything isn't allowed?

I don't mean to sound flamy. This is just an honest question

[Brad]

Just for reference, where is this being denied? Is There a particular group this happened to?

[WongRP]

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-Active-2CDO-2nd-Commando-Regiment-Aussie-group-Rec-OPEN?pid=1313428#pid1313428

post 64

[Aurora Sky]

I posted after this and am going to be speaking to the OP later on.

[Galland]

snip

Quite some time ago the desicion was made that Special forces groups wont be allowed.

It was a thing in the mod as you surely know and with the start of SA it was decided to go a different way.

Since you surely aim for Mental and his group, we will find a solution that his work and effort dont go to waste believe me.

Does that answer your question?

[Dogmeat]

I feel like the question still has yet to be answered (at least for me I was not here during mod days so I personally haven't seen anything around that has said that they are not allowed). While it ultimately isn't any of our decisions for we are not staff it doesn't seem reasonable for no special forces groups to be allowed. While I understand in SA DayZRP there is the classic "super soldier delta seal spetnaz" that we don't want, how is this going to make sense "lore wise"? Also is it just certain SF groups not wanted or no SF groups entirely? (Forgive me for the extra question I saw a chance to kill two birds with one stone)

[Johnny]

I do remember not long ago Rolle and the Admin team aloud Warmachine to open a Russian Special Forces group but sadly he did not do anything with it as well as my own group the FFL could be seen as a special operations unit to many. I guess what I'm just wondering to add on top of wongs question is what type of special forces does staff not want to see and what do they want to see. This would be good to get out on the table so the people don't have to go through the same frustrating process that mental is going through just to find out what staff want to see

from military groups.

[Mental]

I went through my group with the LM team a few days ago and I got a list of things I needed to fix. I rewrote the entire backstory and sent it to flash, who is also the one who told me that SF groups are no longer allowed. Aurora was not aware of this message sent to me, so I'm going to assume a 'miscommunication' in the LM team.

What also bothers me if that no SF groups are allowed, what is? SF groups can come in many varieties depending on the unit, where they're from etc. But survivor groups dont really have a unique aspect.

A cool looking logo and a certain thread layout maybe, but they all will have one common goal.

Survive.

At this stage im rambling so ill stop here

Ps. No i did not ask for this thread to be posted

Pps. So this is why people were looking at my thread

[Aurora Sky]

Going to try and answer both of you at the same time as I have to go to cook dinner.

I can not answer for what any other staff member or Admin has done in the past all I can go off of is what I was told when I became a LM and the rules set to me. To my knowledge it is not an "official" rule that special forces groups not be allowed, however with the start of SA Rolle wanted to shy away from that kind of super soldier RP and focus more on survival style RP. Again I can not answer for what Rolle and the Admin team allowed with Warmachine. It is not that they are quote un-quote not allowed however they are very frowned upon. As for how this is going to make sense lore wise I will link you the OFFICIAL LORE and let you re-read it. http://www.dayzrp.com/lore  As no where does it state that during the infection mass amounts of SF groups suddenly were all stationed so close to South Zagoria. If you have any more questions let me know however it may take me a bit to reply.

---

Also found this. http://www.dayzrp.com/t-Yakuza-Ohiro-Gumi-recruting?pid=1257230#pid1257230

[Jm Von Cat]

But in his lore they aint "Suddenly stationed near South Zagoria".. there was an ongoing conflict in Takistan that Australian forces, part of the coalition there were involved in...

Also it is pretty common sense to send the elite to the most troubled area, that is where a lot of these forces are used, go where it is most dangerous...

Not meaning to say that Chinese special forces or some nation without any reason to be close to South Zagoria should be there...

[DeeBlack]

Okay I usually don't get annoyed with Staff decisions I really don't but this I feel would be a huge mistake on the part of the staff. Special forces group I know is usually shut down as its new players trying to make a big bandity/pvp SpetznazSASNavySeals but when its experienced players who know how to do military RP then I don't see the issue, what's the difference In me making a Royal Marine group (Not special forces) or an SAS group (Special forces) The RP would more or less be the same except for their title.

Shutting down Special forces groups doesn't make sense at all, in a time of crisis where the UN would be called in like it is in the lore special forces would of been sent it as well, recent examples of this is the SAS in Syria and Iraq this year and as we know there are no boots on the ground from the regular British military but the UN is present. Yes in the past their has been a lack of Survivor group and such and Special forces/military group would pop up every day, RP like shit, then die but now that isn't the issue and to be honest a few more different Military RP that isn't regular troops would be a nice change.

Only thing I would restrict would be numbers as special forces units are very small (4-6) members.

[WongRP]

I do. Special force operations are not opened to the public so who are we to say there wasn't?

1. Are you telling me Soldiers can not do survival RP just because they are special forces? Why is that. Only thing differnt between a SF group and a survivor group is that the SF have been mostly been together before the outbreak and have stayed together to use there skills they have learnt.

Can we not Roleplay how we want? I mean let us have some fun

[Brad]

Before this gets too muchh back and forth of people starting to repeat one another, can we say at this point all that has been said will be taken into consideration, and clearly the group hasn't been archived so please don't be hasty on "the wrong decision has been made" when at this point nothing is set in stone.

Aurora and the LM team will work with Mental and I'm sure we can can up with a reasonable plan of action going forward?

[Guest]

Before this gets too muchh back and forth of people starting to repeat one another, can we say at this point all that has been said will be taken into consideration, and clearly the group hasn't been archived so please don't be hasty on "the wrong decision has been made" when at this point nothing is set in stone.

Aurora and the LM team will work with Mental and I'm sure we can can up with a reasonable plan of action going forward?

It should be in general, not just pertaining to Mental's group (gl btw) because it doesnt make sense to only have survivor groups.

I have said it many times but without large organized groups (i.e SDS B17 CRA SVR S-GRU CLF) there is no fear.

[Foxi]

I feel like "special forces" groups typically cause problems because people feel like its okay to act like a super soldier which isn't really what I think people want to see in this community. No one is invincible, and realistically no one should act like it.

Its just that it can be a hard thing to pull off, I think.

[StriderV]

I feel like "special forces" groups typically cause problems because people feel like its okay to act like a super soldier which isn't really what I think people want to see in this community. No one is invincible, and realistically no one should act like it.

Its just that it can be a hard thing to pull off, I think.

When it comes to people who know what they are doing, I see nothing wrong with Military groups.

Edit: Where are your examples of SF groups acting like super soldiers, seems like you're just throwing accusations and assumptions with nothing to back it.

[Prince]

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-10-SFG-10th-Special-Forces-Group-Recruitment-Open-7-NA-Realistic-RP?page=6

RIP SFG

[Aurora Sky]

First off I would like people to stop assuming that I have said anything regarding any one group. When I made my post it was responding to both Denvers and Dogmeats asking about SF groups not any one individual group. I did NOT say in my post that they were NOT allowed I said THEY WERE FROWNED UPON. I could understand the shock of this information for the members of the community that are relatively new however this has been an un-written rule from the start of standalone. This is NOT something that the new LoreMasters have come up with, this has been a standing un-written rule. Yes in the past the Admin team has allowed members to RP groups like this. Also as I have said and as Mental said I will be talking it over with him as I think it was a miscommunication. In his Lore they may have been here before however in the official lore they are not. It falls to the LoreMasters to decide what would fit into the Lore on a realistic level That is what we are trying to do. As to my understanding the PM that was sent to the OP of the group offered help. So again please do not assume that the LM team has done or said anything regarding anyone's group in this thread. I hope that this answers your questions and if not feel free to find me on TS and ask. Thank you

[Dustin]

With the above stated ill go ahead and solve this.

/Solved

[Prince]

 I did NOT say in my post that they were NOT allowed I said THEY WERE FROWNED UPON. I could understand the shock of this information for the members of the community that are relatively new however this has been an un-written rule from the start of standalone.

 

Actually it is a rule 

[Roland]

Thanks for that Prince, I was actually looking for my post about this

The still stand by the above and I believe all my arguments are still valid. I may make exceptions at my own convenience, but the general attitude towards special forces groups is archive/deny.

[WongRP]

Before this gets too muchh back and forth of people starting to repeat one another, can we say at this point all that has been said will be taken into consideration, and clearly the group hasn't been archived so please don't be hasty on "the wrong decision has been made" when at this point nothing is set in stone.

Aurora and the LM team will work with Mental and I'm sure we can can up with a reasonable plan of action going forward?

It should be in general, not just pertaining to Mental's group (gl btw) because it doesnt make sense to only have survivor groups.

I have said it many times but without large organized groups (i.e SDS B17 CRA SVR S-GRU CLF) there is no fear.

This^

As I know you LMs go through a process off actually playing with the groups before accepting IF a group is all super soldier like then hell deny BUT I've ran into these guys and other groups military like and it isn't super soldier like. If the Roleplay is good let it happen.

[Mental]

Before this gets too muchh back and forth of people starting to repeat one another, can we say at this point all that has been said will be taken into consideration, and clearly the group hasn't been archived so please don't be hasty on "the wrong decision has been made" when at this point nothing is set in stone.

Aurora and the LM team will work with Mental and I'm sure we can can up with a reasonable plan of action going forward?

It should be in general, not just pertaining to Mental's group (gl btw) because it doesnt make sense to only have survivor groups.

I have said it many times but without large organized groups (i.e SDS B17 CRA SVR S-GRU CLF) there is no fear.

This^

As I know you LMs go through a process off actually playing with the groups before accepting IF a group is all super soldier like then hell deny BUT I've ran into these guys and other groups military like and it isn't super soldier like. If the Roleplay is good let it happen.

Would be nice if I got a trial run with staff like you say instead of being inevitably shut down..

Every special forces group has their own backstory, their own playstyle.

Sure the idea has been used a lot, but shouldn't the survivor theme be classed as overused?

As stupid as that sounds, it makes sense for both categories to be in chernarus.

I guess what i'm trying to say here is that right now there are a lot of generic survivor groups in the case that:

- They're people whp survived the outbreak

- They banded together after an event/encounter

- They all want to survive

I hope that makes sense

[Surviving Man]

Now before I go full rant I will say this:

• Yes there is a place for military groups/remnant groups
  
• Yes the RP can be good (even when it is/isn't PvP oriented)
  
• No I do not automatically think all military groups are bad
  

Special Forces aside, the military concept is tired, unoriginal and 'easy/lazy'. Most of these groups follow the same core concepts:

1. Pre-outbreak military unit (keep in mind as of now - the outbreak occurred a year ago, the collapse of civilization 10~ months ago)
   
2. In the vicinity either due as an auxillary force for the CDF/Chedaki (whether PMC, Ally etc.) or Sent as Special Forces to assist/investigate the outbreak
   
3. Somehow have remained completely unchanged in their protocols (Still enforcing pre-outbreak laws/ideals, same level of dedication and morale)
   
4. Regardless of the 10+ months without outside contact - are completely resolute/unfazed by the possibility of no backup/rescue
   
5. Uphold whatever law/order possible and establish civilisation/safe haven (whether for themselves or for them and any surviving populace)
   

These groups OOC are always made up of military personnel and the 'creativity' starts and ends with "This group is X unit of X nation's military". The backstory and lore only talks about what they did before the outbreak / why they are in the vicinity. These backstories and lores are more for the group to fill out a 'to-do list' rather than create a story to be told within DayZRP.

• What about the survivors they might have assimilated into their group?
  
• What about losses of morale after not being able to contact superiors/other allies
  

These groups are very rarely (if at all) referred to as "The remnants of X platoon/unit" - there's no acknowledgement of their life within and during the outbreak. They're just these military units wandering the outbreak - they're not survivors at all - just soldiers running around.

• Why are they still a military unit / refer to themselves as such? Surely some would be more cynical/realistic/pessimistic about the scenario.
  

tl;dr : Most military groups are simply transplanted from pre-outbreak into the group ideas section with lore that doesn't take the outbreak into consideration at all.

I guess what i'm trying to say here is that right now there are a lot of generic survivor groups in the case that:

- They're people whp survived the outbreak

- They banded together after an event/encounter

- They all want to survive

I hope that makes sense

The difference is civilian/other survivors are more of a 'blank slate' so people can create more dynamics for their personalities - whereas with soldier RP a lot of people get stuck on 'portraying a soldier correctly' - rather than portraying a human who happens to be a soldier.

[Cipher]

Now before I go full rant I will say this:

• Yes there is a place for military groups/remnant groups
  
• Yes the RP can be good (even when it is/isn't PvP oriented)
  
• No I do not automatically think all military groups are bad
  

Special Forces aside, the military concept is tired, unoriginal and 'easy/lazy'. Most of these groups follow the same core concepts:

1. Pre-outbreak military unit (keep in mind as of now - the outbreak occurred a year ago, the collapse of civilization 10~ months ago)
   
2. In the vicinity either due as an auxillary force for the CDF/Chedaki (whether PMC, Ally etc.) or Sent as Special Forces to assist/investigate the outbreak
   
3. Somehow have remained completely unchanged in their protocols (Still enforcing pre-outbreak laws/ideals, same level of dedication and morale)
   
4. Regardless of the 10+ months without outside contact - are completely resolute/unfazed by the possibility of no backup/rescue
   
5. Uphold whatever law/order possible and establish civilisation/safe haven (whether for themselves or for them and any surviving populace)
   

These groups OOC are always made up of military personnel and the 'creativity' starts and ends with "This group is X unit of X nation's military". The backstory and lore only talks about what they did before the outbreak / why they are in the vicinity. These backstories and lores are more for the group to fill out a 'to-do list' rather than create a story to be told within DayZRP.

• What about the survivors they might have assimilated into their group?
  
• What about losses of morale after not being able to contact superiors/other allies
  

These groups are very rarely (if at all) referred to as "The remnants of X platoon/unit" - there's no acknowledgement of their life within and during the outbreak. They're just these military units wandering the outbreak - they're not survivors at all - just soldiers running around.

• Why are they still a military unit / refer to themselves as such? Surely some would be more cynical/realistic/pessimistic about the scenario.
  

tl;dr : Most military groups are simply transplanted from pre-outbreak into the group ideas section with lore that doesn't take the outbreak into consideration at all.

I guess what i'm trying to say here is that right now there are a lot of generic survivor groups in the case that:

- They're people whp survived the outbreak

- They banded together after an event/encounter

- They all want to survive

I hope that makes sense

The difference is civilian/other survivors are more of a 'blank slate' so people can create more dynamics for their personalities - whereas with soldier RP a lot of people get stuck on 'portraying a soldier correctly' - rather than portraying a human who happens to be a soldier.

 +1