Dynamic Group Suggestion

[Jetwells]

I have a suggestion for a change within the way Dynamic Groups work. From a recent question i asked i have receive multiple answers and opinions, even receiving PM's from other members of the community about said question.

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-Question-on-Dynamic-Groups

From my understanding, Official groups have an advantage over people who prefer to play by themselves, or in a small IG group, when it comes to how to enter into a Dynamic Group. I have been told "Official" groups do not have to meet IC to become part of the Dynamic Group as they are "Official", and people who aren't in these official groups have to meet up IC to become part of a dynamic group. My question is why is this fair? Why do we have an exception to the rule which benefits "Official" groups? 

I was always led to believe that no matter what stance you have, you have to meet IC to become part of the dynamic group. Which in my eyes is the way it should be, To prevent the mass initiations, RDM, and KOS. Lets take a current example into play, Im by myself, 1k away from my "Official Group", I havent met them ingame today and have just got on to meet up with them. On the way they say they have a situation, I let them know im coming from the opposite side of them so we can pincer move.I move withing 500m, I then get them to initiate for me, without them being near me ingame at all, or even seeing them. The people who have been initiated on flee from the main "Official Group", but run into me. I then can instantly KOS every one of them, without seeing them, seeing my group initiate, They have no clue who i am, And i have the upper hand.

Why is this fair?

Yes, They should of complied, but they thought they had the advantage from knowing that all my "Official Group" was on the north side, and the south side was clear. But because i have been in contact over TS with them, I choose to hold the southern position, within the 500m, in hopes they do flee, and then i can utilize my KOS. It promotes Ruleplay. 

Now lets change the situation with an "Un-Offical" Group, I have to then move to the northern side, Show myself to possible hostiles, and also meet up with my group, Just so i can be classed as being a part of the dynamic group and to gain any rights what so ever. That takes all advantage away, and the Group flees south with no casualties. And thats the way it should be.

At the moment, I feel the community is starting to loose its flavour and starting to become stale. Because of certain situations like these, And others of course. Dividing rule sets between play styles could drive members away from playing, and also divides the community. People utilize KOS far too much and would rather have a firefight than roleplay out some form of hostile situation, Another reason im loosing interest in the community, and another reason i voted for a new start on the lore. Too many people wish to have firefights with the easily gained M4's and SVD's they acquire. 

So, What im suggesting is this,

To become part of the Dynamic Group you MUST meet up IC, Whether your an Official group or not.

Pros:

No advantage for "Official" groups. 

Promotes role-play.

Takes away the TS advantage everyone has to a certain extent. 

Creates a better IC bond between people.

Reduces KOS.

No hidden re-reinforcements that have traveled half the map to join in the fight.

Cons:

Hard to monitor.

People will complain it doesn't make sense.

My whole reasoning behind this is that NOONE should have an advantage in game, for a "Status" on the forums.

I would like to hear what people feel on this subject.

What suggestions you have?

Why you agree/disagree?

What would you change if any?

[Unknown Entity]

I'm not getting it:

In your example you are 1km away, be it in the group or not, you do not have KoS rights. This goes for official or dynamic groups.

[Sparky]

Yeah got to agree with USX... You example makes no sense you would be breaking a rule here .... I see your point but maybe change your example to back the point your trying to make mate.

I do agree that things need to be changed.

Sometimes its annoying as the rules sometimes contradict why we are all here and that is to RP and a lot of people use that to there advantage the issue we have is its extremely hard to monitor as you say in your cons hence why I do not see change happening.

[Oliv]

I think there might have been some confusion in the examples. I took it as, he was meeting up with a group that's a km away. He hears about initiation over TS, then moves in, gets within 500 m, they initiate, he mows them down because they have no idea who he is or that he is with the group that was chasing those he just killed.

All though I do believe that there should be some ability to call reinforcements via the radio, I get where your coming from. The big issue is that official groups and dynamic groups have different rules in this regard.

I can agree, that I think they should both be the same. Either both dynamic and official groups should either have to meet up in game first or radio should work for both.

Who's to say how long contact should have to happen before you are considered part of the same dynamic group? An hour, a few hours, a few days?

Either way, its a good discussion to have.

[Jetwells]

Oliv hit it on the head, Sorry if the example doesn't read well. I agree with being able to call in re-inforcements, but would you not make contact with the person who called you in and then discuss it ingame? People use TS for this and it kind of ruins the immersion.

The suggestion is simply you have to meet IC to be part of the dynamic group. I want to remove the divide and difference in how the rule is. I find it highly unfair to allow "Official" groups to automatically be in a dynamic group from the get go of joining the server even though your other side of the maps. Yes, Your out of the 500m shared KOS, but its not for the KOS rights. Its so it evens the playing field across the board. We all know everyone plans everything through TS, silently, even though you are stood next to a group of them.

Contact to me is a simple, seeing each others face and saying hello. That's enough for me. This grants you the now dynamic group.

The reason i asked the question, and then made this suggestion is from this incident.

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-S2-Ghosting-Green-Mountain

I noticed the accused had not contacted his friends, but got them to initiate for him so he gained KoS rights, without even meeting them ingame. Or thats how i perceive it. This gives an unfair advantage to people who arent in said "Offical" groups. Because the way i understand it, if it wasn't an "Official" group, he would have to initiate himself, or meet his friends face to face IG. Which then he looses the advantage because he has to show himself to people, possibly with the chance of the OP and his group seeing him also.

There are pros and cons to both sides of it, which is why i feel it should be the same rule and no exceptions. Wether that be as Oliv said, Meeting face to face IC or simply through TS. Aslong as the ruling is fair and equal for everyone, then theres no problem here. Its the divide that there is which is what i see a problem with.

[Jamie]

I can see that there is flaws with the rule. I was discussing this with Clumsy. Now, for example:

Myself and the Wolves are traveling around and meet John Smith. John Smith is a really cool guy and decides to come with us which he comes a part of the dynamic group. We arrive at Green Mountain and John goes down to get some water. We get initiated on by the Owls whilst John is down at the summer camp. John comes up and hears people shouting and crouches in a tree looking at the situation, and then gets sniped by a cheeky owl in the tower. 

Because John is actually a part of the dynamic group, was that a valid KOS?

[MatthewFC]

Well, having made a useless "-snip-" post because of a silly mistake, might as well edit it and add some actual input...

I really don't see the issue of differences between dynamic and official groups that you claim there are. They are held to the same standards in this case of KoS sharing. In fact, the difference you claim does not reside between dynamic and official groups, but resides between groups that keep radio contact and groups that do not.

Let's be more specific. If I have already met a person in character and decided to share with him radio contact, and through this radio contact make him aware of what is happening to me even if this person is at a distance, I can keep him updated on what kind of hostilities I may be getting into (whether by choice or forced unto) and this person might be able to assist me should they choose to, given that the rest of the rules pertaining to KoS sharing are satisfied.

This is more prevalent, but not exclusive, to official groups, because they are assumed to have shared radio information with each other and thus, keep radio contact all the time. They have their own TS channels just for this purpose. But this doesn't mean they are the only ones. If you take the IC step to share radio information with people you met and make dynamic groups with, you can hold yourself to the same standards. You can separate from your dynamic group members but hold radio contact and have them assist you should a situation arise.

The bottom line is that a requirement of "having met a person ingame" in order to be part of the group, dynamic or otherwise, has already been satisfied even if right now the only contact you're keeping is through wireless. In order to get that frequency, you had to met your own group at least once.

[Oliv]

I can see that there is flaws with the rule. I was discussing this with Clumsy. Now, for example:

Myself and the Wolves are traveling around and meet John Smith. John Smith is a really cool guy and decides to come with us which he comes a part of the dynamic group. We arrive at Green Mountain and John goes down to get some water. We get initiated on by the Owls whilst John is down at the summer camp. John comes up and hears people shouting and crouches in a tree looking at the situation, and then gets sniped by a cheeky owl in the tower. 

Because John is actually a part of the dynamic group, was that a valid KOS?

That's hard to say. A similar thing happened to me 2 weeks ago actually. I got mowed down in a tree line, but I kind of knew What I was getting into because of radio contact. Still, I wasn't directly initiated on, and I could have technically been some random bystander crouch behind a tree and listening to the conversation.

My view on it is that the onus is on the shooter to make sure they have rights to shoot. A simple "get out of here" or "lower your weapon immediately" would go a long way in making sure the person knew they were about to get shot.

Now, back to the example, I feel the answer is yes and no. In the eyes of the shooter, yes he may very well have had KOS rights IF they knew John Smith had just previously left and now he has returned. They are aware the John is/was apart of the group.

It's also a no because no one initiated on John. John may have no idea as to what is going on, or he may be fully aware. At that point it is up to John to either accept it or file a report and leave it up to staff to determine.

[Jetwells]

Well, I guess it boils down to what a Dynamic Group is. How long do you have to be apart for you to loose your dynamic group status? Is there a range for this also? Do I have to meet them IC every time I log in? Can radio contact be enough if we play together often?

Just a few quick thoughts and ideas that make it more so confusing and make it appear as so the "Official" Groups have an advantage, If these types of question can be clarified, and possibly a few other definitions of what separates you from being in the "Dynamic" or not, then i feel it will clear up a few things.