15 Minute Combat Log Timeframe

[TheWolf2777]

Hey guys, Ody here

      Not really sure how to start this off, so I'm just going to say it. The 15 minute combat log timeframe is too harshly enforced. Before people start ranting at me, allow me to explain why.

      My opinion on this issue started with my own report around two weeks ago. After I had been robbed on S1 I wanted to get off the server in order to meet up with another friend of mine on S2, as well as write up a report against a guy who had abused the mechanics of the game to rob me. However, as I was playing full screen, I didn't see what time it was when the last hostile action took place and forgot to check in the heat of the moment. As such, I logged off 15 minutes from the time I looked at the clock which is what I guessed was 3 or 4 minutes from the last encounter. I used to have little sympathy for Combat Logging, but using my own experience, I have now started to sympathise with people who have tried to make an honest report, only to realize that they logged out a minute or so before the timer. 

I was content to think that those who take care of the reports would see the best intentions of the people, and realize that we only have access to the EXACT timestamps after the incident has already transpired. That was before I saw the outcome of this report:

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-Bad-RP--75168

I'm sorry, but 15 seconds? That's ridiculous. This is the equivalent of arresting someone and tossing them in jail for jaywalking. This is frustratting beyond belief to see, at least from my perspective. If anything, enforcing the rule this harshly SCARES people who want to write up the reports into NOT taking action, as they are worried that they did not adhere to the strict timer and will receive a ban. Either way, i'm interested to get the views of the community on this.

[Silas]

I feel that it is a crucial rule to the server and as such it has to be harshly enforced to ensure that people realize this and obey it.

With regards to people in reports being afraid that they have not waited long enough, if in doubt, wait longer...

[Jetwells]

Inconsistency within the staff decisions. That is my opinion. Some people feel some things are ok, others dont.

[Bubbles]

I believe it's better to have a 15minute rule and enforce it strictly rather than having a 20minute rule with exceptions. Once you've lost sight of the other party it doesn't take long to tab out/look at your phone to check the time if you're in doubt.

[Roman]

Remember, 15 minutes is the MINIMUM required time.

If you are going to do a hostile action then you need to plan ahead so you can keep within the rules.

The 15 minute timer is only if you absolutely can't keep on playing, but if that's the case then you shouldn't have made an hostile action.

If something comes up that absolutely makes it unable for you to stay in game then you need to contact either the opposing party or a staff member and give them a valid explanation why you can't stay on.

[AndreyQ]

Well the question is what is the reason of a 15 minute mark if we would allow people to log off after 14 minutes, just because is close to 15? We need to draw a line somewhere, otherwise people will say it was just 14 then it was just 13 and continue just like that.

[Silas]

The point is 15 minutes is an absolute minimum and thus has to be harshly enforced.

[Thumper]

Look at it this way. KOS rights last 2 hours. So, if you commit a hostile action, wait 15 minutes and switch servers to play with friends, you are still combat logging because you continued to play.

[Jannik]

i do really not see the big problem

I have this rule that if I do not have more than 1 hour to play in the I will not do anything that can be seen as a hostile action

I know it's a little extreme but it works for me + It is somewhat interesting to see if those we have robbed comes after you

I agree with Thumper

[Guest Callie]

i do really not see the big problem

I have this rule that if I do not have more than 1 hour to play in the I will not do anything that can be seen as a hostile action

I know it's a little extreme but it works for me + It is somewhat interesting to see if those we have robbed comes after you

I agree with Thumper

Basically this.

If I have to leave soon, I'll stay in for about 20 minutes to be safe. It takes no effort to know when your 15 minute timer has started.

[Stagsview]

Erm.... Right, this isn't how the KOS rule works along with the 15min timer

Now lets say you went to rob somebody, you take him hostage for a bit..give him some torture RP and some good entertainment. You then let the hostage free to do what he wants. You, as the person who did the original hostile action MUST stay on the server for at least another 15 mins and away from view or contact from the person whom you took hostage. But without any reason to shoot the person (IC or possible gain of group KOS rights) you can not shoot the person

But! If you are the person who has been robbed, and you have been let free, you have KOS rights on the group you are allowed to log out whenever you want (as long as you are not directly in contact or view of the people that have taken you hostage) but by doing so you LOSE all KOS rights on the person if you fail to log back into the sever. You can not and will not be able to shot on sight the hostagies as you have lost your right in using these KOS rights.

A common misconception from the community regarding the 15min rule. If you change server for 5 mins and then join back to the original and shoot the person, that would be ghosting/abuse of game mechanics and such.

Also, just giving a poke on ts asking if its ok to log out because you have to do something doesn't hurt whatsoever, people are kind and wont be dicks telling you to STAY on the server because of that, unless you were the person who took them hostage, they then would have to follow the DayzRP rules.

Correct me if I am wrong staff, because I remember this was something in the Mod days when I asked a GM back then. A looooong time ago.

Edit: But regarding the report, it's all legit from the staff side, I sent a PM to the OP explaining why also

[Chris]

Hey guys, Ody here

      Not really sure how to start this off, so I'm just going to say it. The 15 minute combat log timeframe is too harshly enforced. Before people start ranting at me, allow me to explain why.

      My opinion on this issue started with my own report around two weeks ago. After I had been robbed on S1 I wanted to get off the server in order to meet up with another friend of mine on S2, as well as write up a report against a guy who had abused the mechanics of the game to rob me. However, as I was playing full screen, I didn't see what time it was when the last hostile action took place and forgot to check in the heat of the moment. As such, I logged off 15 minutes from the time I looked at the clock which is what I guessed was 3 or 4 minutes from the last encounter. I used to have little sympathy for Combat Logging, but using my own experience, I have now started to sympathise with people who have tried to make an honest report, only to realize that they logged out a minute or so before the timer. 

I was content to think that those who take care of the reports would see the best intentions of the people, and realize that we only have access to the EXACT timestamps after the incident has already transpired. That was before I saw the outcome of this report:

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-Bad-RP--75168

I'm sorry, but 15 seconds? That's ridiculous. This is the equivalent of arresting someone and tossing them in jail for jaywalking. This is frustratting beyond belief to see, at least from my perspective. If anything, enforcing the rule this harshly SCARES people who want to write up the reports into NOT taking action, as they are worried that they did not adhere to the strict timer and will receive a ban. Either way, i'm interested to get the views of the community on this.

Solution seems easy here: don't log out to write a report immediately after an incident has occurred?  Play some more, hunt them down, gear back up, have a smoke, etc.

A rule means nothing unless it's enforced, and this rule happens to have numbers attached to it.  I had a friend get a ticket for driving 29 in a 25 mph zone, just because it's close doesn't change the fact that the rule was broken.  

"I was content to think that those who take care of the reports would see the best intentions of the people."  Intentions cannot be seen, or proven.  Treat reports like a court of law, because that is how they operate.

[Foxi]

I learned this rule the hard way awhile back. Me and some friends waited around 20 minutes to switch servers so we could go meet up with some friends on the other server. However the 15 minute rules is strictly only for people who need to get off. By switching servers you are robbing someone of their revenge rights and yourself from extended RP. Gonna have to disagree here.

[Furlean]

Ooo...this argument again. I honestly believe if you rob someone, wait the 15 minutes and server hop, you are not really playing fairly as could be classified as a psuedo form of combat logging as your really breaking immersion and RP.

[MatthewFC]

There HAS to be an absolute line that cannot be crossed, as people has already explained, or exceptions will gradually become more and more lenient. The idea of the 15 minute timer is that, if you want to initiate and force a hostile situation upon another person, you HAVE to keep in mind if you have sufficient time to provide full RP + time to allow the other party to have a possibility of exercising their KoS rights. Your case falls over the absolute minimum, and notwithstanding the reasons you had, the limit that was set is an absolute minimum.

Conversely, if you're constantly looking at the clock trying to find out if exactly 15 minutes have already passed in order to log off, I'm afraid you're going against the spirit of the rule. The idea would be for you to continue RPing for a long time, even after hostile encounters, so as to show that, for you, OOCly escaping from the consequences of your actions is not a priority at all. ICly your character may be scared shitless and want to run for the hills for the rest of the week, but OOCly escaping by abusing your own knowledge of the rules and precise revenge timers shouldn't even register as a reason for your IG actions.

[Sam B]

an extra minute off the log timer would mean a minute less on the other persons behalf to get revenge, if you move the combat logging timer either way, it will cripple someone on either side, too long and its just stupid, too short and its unfair for the people who may want to get revenge. It's better to keep it where it is.

[Ryssen]

Like previously stated by people earlier. You are techically breaking the rules if you change servers even after the 15 min. The one who had the hostile act against him has the KoS for 2h so you logging to another server even after the 15 min is still a rule break.

Now on the leniency thing I feel rules are in for a reason, and it is never good to start being too lenient just because of a minute or two. Now, if you do have to go most people are cool with it if you talk to them about it, that has been the case for me atleast.

[Stagsview]

Like previously stated by people earlier. You are techically breaking the rules if you change servers even after the 15 min. The one who had the hostile act against him has the KoS for 2h so you logging to another server even after the 15 min is still a rule break.

Now on the leniency thing I feel rules are in for a reason, and it is never good to start being too lenient just because of a minute or two. Now, if you do have to go most people are cool with it if you talk to them about it, that has been the case for me atleast.

Sorry Ryssen, you misunderstood the rule regarding if you were the person whom was captured. If you change server you lose all rights for KOS. But you can log after 15 mins or change server. If you return to the server and if the person you captured is still on, he/she still has KOS rights on you while you do not. This counts also if you were the hostage, as it would class as ghosting.

Let me quote what i put before:

But! If you are the person who has been robbed, and you have been let free, you have KOS rights on the group you are allowed to log out whenever you want (as long as you are not directly in contact or view of the people that have taken you hostage) but by doing so you LOSE all KOS rights on the person if you fail to log back into the sever. You can not and will not be able to shot on sight the hostagies as you have lost your right in using these KOS rights.

[Ryssen]

Like previously stated by people earlier. You are techically breaking the rules if you change servers even after the 15 min. The one who had the hostile act against him has the KoS for 2h so you logging to another server even after the 15 min is still a rule break.

Now on the leniency thing I feel rules are in for a reason, and it is never good to start being too lenient just because of a minute or two. Now, if you do have to go most people are cool with it if you talk to them about it, that has been the case for me atleast.

Sorry Ryssen, you misunderstood the rule regarding if you were the person whom was captured. If you change server you lose all rights for KOS. But you can log after 15 mins or change server. If you return to the server and if the person you captured is still on, he/she still has KOS rights on you while you do not. This counts also if you were the hostage, as it would class as ghosting.

Let me quote what i put before:

I don't think I misunderstand the rule, it was more of me misinterpreting/misreading the OP's post.

Just clarifying how I see the rules so I'm not wrong: 

If you were captured you do not have to stay on the 15 minutes before you log off, you can log off at your own convenience as long as you're out of sight from the hostage takers. If you then decide to log in, let's say 30 min later, on the same server you keep your KoS rights on these people as stated here: http://www.dayzrp.com/t-2-hour-KOS-rights-and-logging-out But if you decide to switch server and then log back to other server where your hostage takers are, you lose your KoS rights because then it would be classified as ghosting, as you previously stated.

Now the point I was trying to make was because I misinterpreted the OPs post, as I thought he meant logging off before the 15 minutes as the one taking the hostages. Then it would be against the rules to log off before the 15 minutes and even against the rules to change server before the KoS timer has run out, even if the hostages are not present at the server, as discussed here: http://www.dayzrp.com/t-Allow-switching-servers-when-people-have-KOS-on-you 

Now I truly hope I did not misinterpret something else as I then would be truly disappointed at myself...

[Guest DrPringles]

I believe that they should have a more detailed rule yes i believe we need a timer but i think if we added a so say distance say like 500 meters we should be able to log out before 15 minuets.

[Stagsview]

Like previously stated by people earlier. You are techically breaking the rules if you change servers even after the 15 min. The one who had the hostile act against him has the KoS for 2h so you logging to another server even after the 15 min is still a rule break.

Now on the leniency thing I feel rules are in for a reason, and it is never good to start being too lenient just because of a minute or two. Now, if you do have to go most people are cool with it if you talk to them about it, that has been the case for me atleast.

Sorry Ryssen, you misunderstood the rule regarding if you were the person whom was captured. If you change server you lose all rights for KOS. But you can log after 15 mins or change server. If you return to the server and if the person you captured is still on, he/she still has KOS rights on you while you do not. This counts also if you were the hostage, as it would class as ghosting.

Let me quote what i put before:

I don't think I misunderstand the rule, it was more of me misinterpreting/misreading the OP's post.

Just clarifying how I see the rules so I'm not wrong: 

If you were captured you do not have to stay on the 15 minutes before you log off, you can log off at your own convenience as long as you're out of sight from the hostage takers. If you then decide to log in, let's say 30 min later, on the same server you keep your KoS rights on these people as stated here: http://www.dayzrp.com/t-2-hour-KOS-rights-and-logging-out But if you decide to switch server and then log back to other server where your hostage takers are, you lose your KoS rights because then it would be classified as ghosting, as you previously stated.

Now the point I was trying to make was because I misinterpreted the OPs post, as I thought he meant logging off before the 15 minutes as the one taking the hostages. Then it would be against the rules to log off before the 15 minutes and even against the rules to change server before the KoS timer has run out, even if the hostages are not present at the server, as discussed here: http://www.dayzrp.com/t-Allow-switching-servers-when-people-have-KOS-on-you 

Now I truly hope I did not misinterpret something else as I then would be truly disappointed at myself...

Hmmmm I did not see that question thread before hand, from what I was told and protocol I followed back when I was staff is that if you log from a server you lose all KOS rights from the situation to also applies if you change server.

Regarding the first statement you said: Yes we both agree that is how the situation is of foot, so there is no problem there. The only part im slightly confused at is that if you log from the server, and then you relog like 30 mins later you are still able to have KOS rights on the person. Maybe a current GM or admin could confirm for both of us if it is true or not because I was always taught that if you log, you lose, if you switch, you lose. It's fair sportsmenship.

Regarding the OP's question we both agree to the same conclusion, he even sent me a pm asking him to explain the situation (that I did and the GM/admin team did a perfectly fair verdict imo).

Now you got my head scratching here....but it would be a good discussion to have. I don't personally agree with it if that is the case but I ain't going to argue against rules set in stone.

Oww dear....If i got this wrong I have made a public fool of myself

[Ryssen]

Hmmmm I did not see that question thread before hand, from what I was told and protocol I followed back when I was staff is that if you log from a server you lose all KOS rights from the situation to also applies if you change server.

Regarding the first statement you said: Yes we both agree that is how the situation is of foot, so there is no problem there. The only part im slightly confused at is that if you log from the server, and then you relog like 30 mins later you are still able to have KOS rights on the person. Maybe a current GM or admin could confirm for both of us if it is true or not because I was always taught that if you log, you lose, if you switch, you lose. It's fair sportsmenship.

Regarding the OP's question we both agree to the same conclusion, he even sent me a pm asking him to explain the situation (that I did and the GM/admin team did a perfectly fair verdict imo).

Now you got my head scratching here....but it would be a good discussion to have. I don't personally agree with it if that is the case but I ain't going to argue against rules set in stone.

Oww dear....If i got this wrong I have made a public fool of myself

Well yeah, it's all a bit confusing for me as well, but it has been a well discussed subject lately, would be nice with someone up-top to confirm it.

Well if you made a fool of yourself I did as well, misreading the OP

[Stagsview]

Well yeah, it's all a bit confusing for me as well, but it has been a well discussed subject lately, would be nice with someone up-top to confirm it.

Well if you made a fool of yourself I did as well, misreading the OP

To the helpdesk!

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