Apprenticeships? of a sort?

[Deniecu]

So reading reports, ban appeals and introduction threads as well as meeting some of these people in game has made me realize that there are a lot of newcomers who get banned rather quickly after getting whitelisted. Sometimes it's probably for the better, certain people simply do not belong in this community I think we can all agree. But some people just seem to make honest mistakes that get them banned for breaking the rules. Here I would like to stress that I think if you break a lot of rules, or indeed the "wrong" rules, you do deserve to get punished or banned. 

I also believe that some of these bans were preventable had these newcomers simply spoken to almost anyone who's been around for a while.

I do not enjoy seeing people get banned from this community when there seem to be so many of them who genuinly simply make easily avoidable mistakes. People who might be stuck in the "DayZ mentality" rather than the RP one needed for playing on RP servers. I know I certainly struggled a fair bit with this when I first joined this community. I've come and gone several times because of personal reasons as well as problems I saw within the community. Recently however I've been asking every question I can think of (sorry for harassing the helpdesk), regarding rules, very specific in game situations, exploitations of game mechanics... Anything I can think of really. Doing this has made me understand why certain rules are enforced so harshly, why others might not be enforced as harshly. It has made me understand the value of Roleplay over Ruleplay. It has made me fall in love, all over again, with the idea of DayZRP.

I might be naive here, assuming that most people who get whitelisted, or try to get whitelisted, here actually want to RP with the rest of us. I might just be, if so that is my problem and I don't at all mind you telling me I am.

So what's the point of all this? I've been thinking that if people who genuinly want to be here are having a bit of trouble with how to RP, what the exact spirit behind the rules are, what mentality they need to have in order to maximize not only their own experience here, but making the experience of the people they encounter as pleasant and enjoyable as possible. If they for some reason feel like they can't hop into the helpdesk to ask a question every time one pops into their head (something I truly recommend that you do if you have any problems at all) or PM members of staff for assistance. I think having someone who's a bit more experienced than them to hang out with in TS to just chat with could be helpful. Having someone watch your back so to speak, making sure you don't make those easy to make mistakes. An apprenticeship, of a sort.

Thoughts and critiques are always always welcome with me. Please do not hesitate to share yours.

Kind regards, and to all newcomers, welcome to DayZRP.

Deniecu

Edit: RP Masterclass This already seems to be a thing, hooray for me being ignorant. Anyway, click that link and let's get this off the ground!

[Makarov]

I thought we had a form of Apprenticeship somewhere around here.... It was a "Class" of a sort, i believe. Think it fell through. Anyways, the whole apprenticeship idea is always a good one... But, it has some holes in it. Not all Newcomers have the idea of seeking help from other more experienced community members when they have questions. Whether it be because they are too lazy, too shy, or believe that the written rules on the site is all they need. It is all about if the Newcomers are willing to ask for help. There is also the matter of volunteers to "Apprentice" these New members. It is a system that will have to be worked out before it could work. Even then, there will still be those that slip through the cracks and still get banned for not following the rules and asking wuestions when they need to.

[Deniecu]

I thought we had a form of Apprenticeship somewhere around here.... It was a "Class" of a sort, i believe. Think it fell through. Anyways, the whole apprenticeship idea is always a good one... But, it has some holes in it. Not all Newcomers have the idea of seeking help from other more experienced community members when they have questions. Whether it be because they are too lazy, too shy, or believe that the written rules on the site is all they need. It is all about if the Newcomers are willing to ask for help. There is also the matter of volunteers to "Apprentice" these New members. It is a system that will have to be worked out before it could work. Even then, there will still be those that slip through the cracks and still get banned for not following the rules and asking wuestions when they need to.

I certainly agree with all of that.

However if a Apprentice system were to be put into place, I would consider it worth the effort if we could help just one person. That would mean one less report for the admins to handle, one less ban appeal, one less mistake and one better RP situation where both parties had a better RP exchange.

I remember PM:ing someone who had posted that "Class" thread on how to RP back in the day, never did get a reply though.

I wonder if I'd be allowed to make an attempt at creating a new Apprentice system, or at least try to get a few people together trying to do something similair to this if the interest is out there.

[Makarov]

I thought we had a form of Apprenticeship somewhere around here.... It was a "Class" of a sort, i believe. Think it fell through. Anyways, the whole apprenticeship idea is always a good one... But, it has some holes in it. Not all Newcomers have the idea of seeking help from other more experienced community members when they have questions. Whether it be because they are too lazy, too shy, or believe that the written rules on the site is all they need. It is all about if the Newcomers are willing to ask for help. There is also the matter of volunteers to "Apprentice" these New members. It is a system that will have to be worked out before it could work. Even then, there will still be those that slip through the cracks and still get banned for not following the rules and asking wuestions when they need to.

I certainly agree with all of that.

However if a Apprentice system were to be put into place, I would consider it worth the effort if we could help just one person. That would mean one less report for the admins to handle, one less ban appeal, one less mistake and one better RP situation where both parties had a better RP exchange.

I remember PM:ing someone who had posted that "Class" thread on how to RP back in the day, never did get a reply though.

I wonder if I'd be allowed to make an attempt at creating a new Apprentice system, or at least try to get a few people together trying to do something similair to this if the interest is out there.

To be fair, nothing is stopping you from trying. Admins would probably be ok with it as long as it helps the community. Just make an official thread to advertise it for the Newcomers, list of Volunteers willing to take on an Apprentice and list if they currently have one or not. Could even have one of the Staff members help oversee it if you ask if any of them are interested and have the free time. If ya need a volunteer, always looking for something to do.

[Surviving Man]

Like Makarov mentioned, this has existed as the RP masterclass that is on the forums/in the community.

One of the fundamental problems with this however; is that people have to admit that their RP isn't good/could be better or are inexperienced. It takes a lot for somebody to admit that to themselves, even moreso when you apply it to a recreational activity like DayZ Roleplay.

If we look at it as man hours involved; I'd say it probably takes less time to deal with a report than put in hours as a trainee with an apprentice. The difference being that people's RP isn't ruined.

[Deniecu]

Like Makarov mentioned, this has existed as the RP masterclass that is on the forums/in the community.

One of the fundamental problems with this however; is that people have to admit that their RP isn't good/could be better or are inexperienced. It takes a lot for somebody to admit that to themselves, even moreso when you apply it to a recreational activity like DayZ Roleplay.

If we look at it as man hours involved; I'd say it probably takes less time to deal with a report than put in hours as a trainee with an apprentice. The difference being that people's RP isn't ruined.

It's true that some people, maybe even most people wouldn't want to admit to anyone else, if even themselves that their RP might be bad/could improve. But I would still love for this to be an available service for those who might want it.

I wouldn't mind putting in a lot of time into something like this. Maybe that's just me though. There is another difference/benefit though, the newcomer will be less likely to be banned and the community might gain a new interesting character.

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To be fair, nothing is stopping you from trying. Admins would probably be ok with it as long as it helps the community. Just make an official thread to advertise it for the Newcomers, list of Volunteers willing to take on an Apprentice and list if they currently have one or not. Could even have one of the Staff members help oversee it if you ask if any of them are interested and have the free time. If ya need a volunteer, always looking for something to do.

I'll get to work on a method/system to do this then. Appreciate the feedback! If you don't mind I could use a second pair of eyes on that as well. I'm far from perfect and I would need this to be as fleshed out as possible. If you're willing ofcourse.

[Pussy]

I think you gents might be talking about Volke's RP Masterclass which is --as far as I'm aware-- still very much active. Give that a look over before you start to draft something up for yourself.

[Deniecu]

I think you gents might be talking about Volke's RP Masterclass which is --as far as I'm aware-- still very much active. Give that a look over before you start to draft something up for yourself.

Will do! Thank you Kattica!

Edit: The reason I thought the RP Masterclass was dead was because I didn't recieve a reply from Fox when he was in charge of it (as I understand it). Hope we can revive it. Will link to it in the OP. Better keep all this in one place right?

[Manic]

When it comes to an apprenticeship of sorts you really can't force anyone to seek out help.

I know that if anyone interested in something like that were to simply ask someone, they would be more then happy to help.

Me being one of them. I have no problem helping anyone who is having a hard time grasping onto roleplay, or having trouble understanding

the rules. There are tons of fantastic roleplayers on this community who would take their free time and help other when asked. 

The problem

is people don't seem to want to ask. I'm not sure if they are just too scared to come up and go over some things that are confusing 

for them or they just don't care to. The help is there. They just need to reach out for it. 

[Volke]

I've taken control of RP Masterclass from Fox and it is still very underway , I've helped 3 -4 people now , with basics, helping them with whatever problem they have (anxiety when speaking, character backstory, finding them a group)

[Wulfe]

As much as I don't really like the sink or swim mentality, that's essentially what we have here. Except we're all on the boat asking them if they want swimming advice.

There are plenty of resources for a newcomer to learn about RP and the rules. All of which you have used, and I used when I was new. (Hell I still read reports just for fun.)

If someone doesn't want to use these resources, and they make a mistake and get banned - that's on them. You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped, no matter how many opportunities you present.

[Deniecu]

I've taken control of RP Masterclass from Fox and it is still very underway , I've helped 3 -4 people now , with basics, helping them with whatever problem they have (anxiety when speaking, character backstory, finding them a group)

I would love to get involved with that if you need volunteers. I really just want to help people out if I can.

[Chance]

I think it'd be nice to see a more experienced member take a new member under their wing - show them how to RP in certain situations, help them create a solid character (with a good background story) and the history of the DayZRP universe; along with a basic diplomatic rundown of the larger and more active groups. Just basically show them the ropes of DayZ and DayZRP.

[Foxi]

The more experiences members should defiantly be ready to help newbies out. That being said I think many already do. I've never shied away from helping out new members, other than a couple of exceptions of course. When its within my ability to do so I have taken the opportunity to help out some new members.

[Surviving Man]

The problem

is people don't seem to want to ask. I'm not sure if they are just too scared to come up and go over some things that are confusing 

for them or they just don't care to. The help is there. They just need to reach out for it. 

One of the fundamental problems with this however; is that people have to admit that their RP isn't good/could be better or are inexperienced. It takes a lot for somebody to admit that to themselves, even moreso when you apply it to a recreational activity like DayZ Roleplay.

I guarantee you this is the primary reason why it doesn't happen - even if you went around PMing people offering the class; you'll likely hear 'Maybe' or 'No thanks I'm alright'. 

New members will coast until they are punished in a successful report against them. Even then, that can't assure that their RP will change. The problem is you need people to want to change, and that's something you cannot will.