Possible Group Idea - The Hero Bandits (Would like thoughts and feedback!)

[GaryCash]

Hey, so I realize I personally don't meet the requirements yet to lead a group, nor do I really want to / have the time too currently given my current busy RL situation but I was mulling over the idea of a particular kind of group and I wanted to get the feed back from the community as to what they thought about it, and if there was already a group out there that is already similar to this.

So here is it is.

Hero Bandits  !

Okay so basically what I was thinking was, what if you had a group of actively hostile heroes, that stuck up nearly everyone they came across (given that it was feasible) forcing them to disarm themselves and face the other direction.

But instead of stealing anything from the victims, instead they just gave them supplies, what ever they needed. 

Whether that be,

- Guns

- Food

- Ammo

- Supplies

- Medical attention if needed etc.

Basically this is a group that has been hardened by the atrocities that have gone on around them and they realize in a world full of flesh eating infected that the most dangerous people out there are the living and the healthy, so they don't take any chances, and they make sure they always have the upper hand, hence playing the bandit and sticking up the players for their own safety.  However this group of people has not given up hope on humanity and still wishes to help everyone they come across, always leaving the player if they were compliant, and didn't force a shoot out, with more supplies then when they were originally initiated on.

"Put your hands up!  Drop your guns!  We're not hurting you!  We're saving you dammit!"

Hahaha, anyway, I don't know if this is something that has been done before, or is currently being done, I just thought it might be an interesting band of individuals running around in the wasteland of Chernarus, saving people because they are not monsters, and they realize that the real threat out there is the infected, which all the uninfected are pitted in a war against, even if some of their fellow members of mankind have lost there way, and they want to help those people survive, because after all, we are all in the fight for humanity together!

Hahaha

Kinda like Robin Hoods, except they don't steal from the rich, they just help out those who are less fortunate, but they don't take any chances when meeting new people so they put them at gun point while they are resupplying them - then they probably hide their weapons in any easily find-able place nearby they tell the victim about so the victim can recover it, but by then the Robin Hoods are long gone.

Anyway, just a thought!  Sorry if someone has already done this!  But I just wanted to pose the idea to the community and get some feed back on what they would think about a group like this!

I think it would be pretty cool and pretty realistic, because, the group wouldn't want to take any chances with anyone, because they know how bad people can be, but at the same time, they refuse to sink to the depths of depravity that the real bandits out there in the world have, and still choose to try to help their fellow man, but like I said, they don't take chances anymore.

---

--Hey Staff, I'm sorry if I posted the thread in the wrong forum, my apologies if this ends up needing to be moved, I just realized I probably should have posted this in the group forum

[Surviving Man]

• Hostilities don't require initiations. I understand the 'strong arming' aspect of the group but I think it's forced and unnecessary
  
• Robin Hood stole from the rich AND helped the poor, so that example doesn't really apply
  
• You don't have to hold people up to give them items (if you were going to initiate to help somebody, you'd 'capture' them and act as their bodyguards (eg. We don't believe you can defend yourself out here, we will defend you)
  
• Hero Bandits - I hope that isn't the name you're gonna go with, it's lazy.
  
• This should just be a donation/assistance group/initiative that is also able to hold their own in combat - not a group that initiates to give people supplies.
  

It's not so black and white here, you don't have to be a complete pacifist to be a character that likes to help people. You don't have to steal everything when you hold somebody up as a hostile character. Motivations and methods vary.

[NishiUrban]

I think it's a novel idea, however I can see a number of potential issues you could run into while trying to establish something like this.

 First off, if you were to try and make a group that would essentially "hold up nearly everyone they see", I'm pretty sure the Staff would have an issue with that. Not to question your personal intentions, but it would be like giving someone a free pass to just initiate on everyone and anyone they ever find, and hope that they are doing it for 'good reasons', which is understandably questionable.

 Secondly, when it comes to initiations, having the intention to initiate on nearly everyone you find sounds more damaging then anything to your goals. When someone initiates, they are basically putting not only their lives and the lives of the people with them in danger, but also the lives of the people they initiate on. As a group that is trying to 'help people' by initiating on them, it feels like an oxymoron. The second you initiate on someone, you run the risk of them running away or trying to gun you down. If they try to gun you down, I'm assuming you wouldn't just let them kill you, and then you kill them first...well now they end up dead. Then again if they run away, are you going to chase them down? Let them go? Because if you let them go, you now have someone with KoS rights on you just kind of out there, for two hours, that's why most people chase down their victims.

 Let's say they surrender and everything seems cool, you give them weapons and ammo, then you turn your backs to leave. What's to say they aren't just going to gun you down at take everything you have? If you want to be hostile heroes, I don't see an issue with that, but when you try to initiate on people in order to accomplish that while saying it's to help them, I don't feel like that makes much sense. You could always just be verbally hostile, and still help people, accomplishing pretty much the same thing while running less risk of the people you are trying to 'help' dying. Initiations don't always equate to Hostile rp.

 That being said, I have done something very similar. Me and another player found a lone survivor, rped with them for maybe 1 1/2 to 2 hours, travelling and talking. Got them somewhere secluded, and as we were getting ready to leave initiated on her in order to teach her not to be so trusting of strangers. We didn't take a thing from her, didn't make her drop anything, just put her hands up and talked to her in a hostile manner. After we were done making our point, I gave our hostage who was unarmed since we met her, a pistol and ammunition, and we continued travelling looking for supplies together for another half hour or more. The entire time after that initiation, she had KoS rights on us, and could have tried to kill us, but luckily she didn't. The video in case you were curious. 

 [video=youtube]

 I mean, if you planned to rp with the people you initiate on extensively before initiating on them, it might go better then just initiating on people shortly after running into them. That's how I feel anyway.

[GaryCash]

• Hostilities don't require initiations. I understand the 'strong arming' aspect of the group but I think it's forced and unnecessary
  
• Robin Hood stole from the rich AND helped the poor, so that example doesn't really apply
  
• You don't have to hold people up to give them items (if you were going to initiate to help somebody, you'd 'capture' them and act as their bodyguards (eg. We don't believe you can defend yourself out here, we will defend you)
  
• Hero Bandits - I hope that isn't the name you're gonna go with, it's lazy.
  
• This should just be a donation/assistance group/initiative that is also able to hold their own in combat - not a group that initiates to give people supplies.
  

It's not so black and white here, you don't have to be a complete pacifist to be a character that likes to help people. You don't have to steal everything when you hold somebody up as a hostile character. Motivations and methods vary.

Interesting point, I suppose the group wouldn't technically have to initiate, BUT, from their perspective, it could be that they just don't trust others, and thats their own measure of security while they are giving gear.

I mentioned Robin Hood just cause he gave to the poor haha, but your right, this wouldn't be a group that steals, so its not the best analogy, but I feel like we're on the same page.

I do understand you don't have to hold them up to give them supplies, and in some instances, it may make more sense not to hold them up, and just to give them the supplies.  Definitely would depend on the RP of the situation your right, at the same time, the RP of the characters could be they just don't take any chances when meeting new people, even though their intentions are good.

I do like that body guard idea too a lot

LOL HERO BANDITS - No that wasn't going to be the group name LOL - Its just the concept for the group, I'd creativity level is higher then a 2! lol, I like to think of it as over 9000!

As for your last point, I understand what your saying that it should just be an assistance group, but at the same time I feel like those groups already exist, I was trying to bring something unique to the table by saying they are a group that gives you supplies at gun point because they don't trust you but want to help you

"It's not so black and white here, you don't have to be a complete pacifist to be a character that likes to help people. You don't have to steal everything when you hold somebody up as a hostile character. Motivations and methods vary." -  That is precisely the point my friend, this group would be a amalgam of things.

Thank you for the feed back! this was very helpful in continue to conceptualize this idea, interesting points indeed

---

I think it's a novel idea, however I can see a number of potential issues you could run into while trying to establish something like this.

 First off, if you were to try and make a group that would essentially "hold up nearly everyone they see", I'm pretty sure the Staff would have an issue with that. Not to question your personal intentions, but it would be like giving someone a free pass to just initiate on everyone and anyone they ever find, and hope that they are doing it for 'good reasons', which is understandably questionable.

 Secondly, when it comes to initiations, having the intention to initiate on nearly everyone you find sounds more damaging then anything to your goals. When someone initiates, they are basically putting not only their lives and the lives of the people with them in danger, but also the lives of the people they initiate on. As a group that is trying to 'help people' by initiating on them, it feels like an oxymoron. The second you initiate on someone, you run the risk of them running away or trying to gun you down. If they try to gun you down, I'm assuming you wouldn't just let them kill you, and then you kill them first...well now they end up dead. Then again if they run away, are you going to chase them down? Let them go? Because if you let them go, you now have someone with KoS rights on you just kind of out there, for two hours, that's why most people chase down their victims.

 Let's say they surrender and everything seems cool, you give them weapons and ammo, then you turn your backs to leave. What's to say they aren't just going to gun you down at take everything you have? If you want to be hostile heroes, I don't see an issue with that, but when you try to initiate on people in order to accomplish that while saying it's to help them, I don't feel like that makes much sense. You could always just be verbally hostile, and still help people, accomplishing pretty much the same thing while running less risk of the people you are trying to 'help' dying. Initiations don't always equate to Hostile rp.

 That being said, I have done something very similar. Me and another player found a lone survivor, rped with them for maybe 1 1/2 to 2 hours, travelling and talking. Got them somewhere secluded, and as we were getting ready to leave initiated on her in order to teach her not to be so trusting of strangers. We didn't take a thing from her, didn't make her drop anything, just put her hands up and talked to her in a hostile manner. After we were done making our point, I gave our hostage who was unarmed since we met her, a pistol and ammunition, and we continued travelling looking for supplies together for another half hour or more. The entire time after that initiation, she had KoS rights on us, and could have tried to kill us, but luckily she didn't. The video in case you were curious. 

 [video=youtube]

 I mean, if you planned to rp with the people you initiate on extensively before initiating on them, it might go better then just initiating on people shortly after running into them. That's how I feel anyway.

You make a really good point with the nightmare this could be for the staff, which is something I am not trying to create in the slightest.

I think you and the other Poster surviving man make good points saying that these hostile meetings of the group with people they come across don't always need to be at gun point.  I was just thinking from an RP stand point the group may want to be protecting themselves even if they have no intention of actually shooting the person.

The fact that they have KOS rights on you after that I think is something that members of the group are going to have to be willing to accept in order so they can do the greater good in assisting people, plus I think there is a decent chance that after they have received gifts from the strangers who reverse robbed them, they may not excursive those KOS rights, but then again they may, again this is a risk the group would willing need to accept (I'd be all for it, I kind of like the concept of being hunted anyway haha intensity always adds to the immersion.) - This is also why I said though that the group would likely put the persons gun somewhere (easily findable and somewhere they told them,) but far away.

 "I mean, if you planned to rp with the people you initiate on extensively before initiating on them, it might go better then just initiating on people shortly after running into them. That's how I feel anyway."

Your right, I feel like this could be in most cases absolutely crucial.

Sorry It took me so long to reply haha, I just watched your full video hahaha 

You guys have both given some really interesting points though thank you both for the time to give feed back on this.  Like I said, I would probably never run a group myself, but I thought the concept of this group is cool.

I think it would be an interesting surprise for a character to get and in their development if all of a sudden one time the people who ambushed them they just found out filled your back pack with food and Charcoal tabs with a O- bag ahaha instead of taking your M-4.

And then what would they then do?

Go back to find them and thank them?

Or Go back to find them and kill them because bas you've stated they now have KOS rights now.

I'm sure everyone would react differently

[Foxi]

I honestly just dont understand why you would hold people up to give them free supplies. Also, you might find that most people wont appreciate that kind of 'disrespect'. Not everyone would think your good people for doing what you're doing, in fact I think in character most people would end up hating you. Not because they dont appreciate the supplies but because they dont understand why you would be so hostile when your doing something like providing aid to the ones in need.

But hey, what do I know? Maybe this kind of group would work fine, there have been hostile hero groups in the past. *cough cough UN cough* :troll: I know you dont meet the group requirements now but if you choose to make this group in the future, good luck.

[Chappers]

This is the SDS, warlord wants tribute . It doesn't really work, if you ask for tribute or for a cause then yes but if you rob them then they can't return hostile action.

[PalmtreeWhale]

I don't know about this one… it would be pretty weird realisticly as well. Why would you risk getting into a situation where you would risk your life and the person "you are trying to help" his life, while you are only there to help. There would be plenty of other solutions to do this more in a diplomatic way even when they don't trust the person.

You could ask them to be voluntarily to be checked to see if they actually need something.

And if they don't want that, they don't need the supplies either. Otherwise you would be kind of forcing people to check if they need something while they don't actually need something.

[GaryCash]

I honestly just dont understand why you would hold people up to give them free supplies. Also, you might find that most people wont appreciate that kind of 'disrespect'. Not everyone would think your good people for doing what you're doing, in fact I think in character most people would end up hating you. Not because they dont appreciate the supplies but because they dont understand why you would be so hostile when your doing something like providing aid to the ones in need.

But hey, what do I know? Maybe this kind of group would work fine, there have been hostile hero groups in the past. *cough cough UN cough* :troll: I know you dont meet the group requirements now but if you choose to make this group in the future, good luck.

___________________________________________________

Thank you!  Haha, like I said though it is doubtful I'd ever lead a group because I don't think I would be able to put forth the adequate time and energy the group deserves, but I wanted to put this idea that i had been kicking around in my mind out there for the community to see.  Also based off the responses of everyone thus far, I highly doubt this idea is something I would pursue given the large number of hurdles people have mentioned that are issues with the group idea.  But I've loving the feedback everyones been giving as its been highly insightful!

---

I don't know about this one…  it would be pretty weird realisticly as well. Why would you risk getting into a situation where you would risk your life  and the person "you are trying to help"  his life, while you are only there to help. There would be plenty of other solutions to do this more in a diplomatic way even when they don't trust the person.

You could ask them to be voluntarily to be checked to see if they  actually need something.

And if they don't want that, they don't need the supplies either. Otherwise you would be kind of forcing people to check if they need something while they don't actually need something.

I understand what you mean to an extent because of the Value for Life Clause, but at the same time, I feel like with enough creativity, pretty much any idea if done right can be brought to the table in a realistic manner.  Its all the way you go about it.

But I perfectly understand where your coming from.

I think what partly inspired me to come up with this idea is in real life, when I was a younger man I was a part of Ocean Rescue, so for me, the idea of risking ones own life to save another is something that is completely feasible and reasonable.  Again its all a matter of how you would go about it and how you role played it out.

And I understand what you mean about asking them voluntarily, and the fact that if they don't need something that the entire thing is for nothing.  But maybe thats a risk that the characters are willing to take in order to try to save the lives of others living in a world surrounding by flesh eating beings?

At the same time though, along with everyone else who responded, I see your point, and its a tricky issue, and one that would need to be carefully thought out in order to be totally abiding to all of the rules.

Very good point indeed though, as I do agree with you that most people probably wouldn't risk their life for a total stranger.  I feel that it would depend a lot on who their character is in game. 

I'm very happy people are bringing up these points though especially ones pertaining to how well the group would interact with the rules.  Honestly after reading everyones responses that is my main deterrent to the idea, because like I said earlier I would never want to create a group that caused problems or reports for the staff to deal with in game, its not worth the group at all in my opinion if the group is going to be any sort of an issue with the rules of our community.

I am pretty much set on the fact at this point that this isn't a good group idea, or at least is one that would need major revamping and work.

Thanks again for all the responses guys!

[PalmtreeWhale]

-snip-

I understand what you mean to an extent because of the Value for Life Clause, but at the same time, I feel like with enough creativity, pretty much any idea if done right can be brought to the table in a realistic manner.  Its all the way you go about it.

But I perfectly understand where your coming from.

I think what partly inspired me to come up with this idea is in real life, when I was a younger man I was a part of Ocean Rescue, so for me, the idea of risking ones own life to save another is something that is completely feasible and reasonable.  Again its all a matter of how you would go about it and how you role played it out.

And I understand what you mean about asking them voluntarily, and the fact that if they don't need something that the entire thing is for nothing.  But maybe thats a risk that the characters are willing to take in order to try to save the lives of others living in a world surrounding by flesh eating beings?

At the same time though, along with everyone else who responded, I see your point, and its a tricky issue, and one that would need to be carefully thought out in order to be totally abiding to all of the rules.

Very good point indeed though, as I do agree with you that most people probably wouldn't risk their life for a total stranger.  I feel that it would depend a lot on who their character is in game. 

I'm very happy people are bringing up these points though especially ones pertaining to how well the group would interact with the rules.  Honestly after reading everyones responses that is my main deterrent to the idea, because like I said earlier I would never want to create a group that caused problems or reports for the staff to deal with in game, its not worth the group at all in my opinion if the group is going to be any sort of an issue with the rules of our community.

I am pretty much set on the fact at this point that this isn't a good group idea, or at least is one that would need major revamping and work.

Thanks again for all the responses guys!

It's not really the rules i am worried about, I like the idea of being friendly towards people in a way that could relate to backwards pickpocketing if you know what I mean. But the thing is, if you hold people up and basically give them commands to drop their weapons people could feel the need to fight back, or even have their friends retaliate even though your plan was to help them out (unnecessary violence). These people will immediately think that you have bad meanings since who the hell would disarm them to help them.  The people who actually need help will probably come to you if they are really in need.

Back in the mod the free medics(name says it all) would help people out for free, and the people who needed their help would come to them.

Also I would recommend collaborating with I believe the Saints, they leave supply packages around chernarus to help out. To ensure that the people who  would actually need it, you guys could come up with something? Bundle ze forces !

[GaryCash]

-snip-

I understand what you mean to an extent because of the Value for Life Clause, but at the same time, I feel like with enough creativity, pretty much any idea if done right can be brought to the table in a realistic manner.  Its all the way you go about it.

But I perfectly understand where your coming from.

I think what partly inspired me to come up with this idea is in real life, when I was a younger man I was a part of Ocean Rescue, so for me, the idea of risking ones own life to save another is something that is completely feasible and reasonable.  Again its all a matter of how you would go about it and how you role played it out.

And I understand what you mean about asking them voluntarily, and the fact that if they don't need something that the entire thing is for nothing.  But maybe thats a risk that the characters are willing to take in order to try to save the lives of others living in a world surrounding by flesh eating beings?

At the same time though, along with everyone else who responded, I see your point, and its a tricky issue, and one that would need to be carefully thought out in order to be totally abiding to all of the rules.

Very good point indeed though, as I do agree with you that most people probably wouldn't risk their life for a total stranger.  I feel that it would depend a lot on who their character is in game. 

I'm very happy people are bringing up these points though especially ones pertaining to how well the group would interact with the rules.  Honestly after reading everyones responses that is my main deterrent to the idea, because like I said earlier I would never want to create a group that caused problems or reports for the staff to deal with in game, its not worth the group at all in my opinion if the group is going to be any sort of an issue with the rules of our community.

I am pretty much set on the fact at this point that this isn't a good group idea, or at least is one that would need major revamping and work.

Thanks again for all the responses guys!

It's not really the rules i am worried about, I like the idea of being friendly towards people in a way that could relate to backwards pickpocketing if you know what I mean. But the thing is, if you hold people up and basically give them commands to drop their weapons people could feel the need to fight back, or even have their friends retaliate even though your plan was to help them out (unnecessary violence). These people will immediately think that you have bad meanings since who the hell would disarm them to help them.  The people who actually need help will probably come to you if they are really in need.

Back in the mod the free medics(name says it all) would help people out for free, and the people who needed their help would come to them.

Also I would recommend collaborating with I believe the Saints, they leave supply packages around chernarus to help out. To ensure that the people who  would actually need it, you guys could come up with something? Bundle ze forces !

Very true, I see what you are saying, its very valid.  

However I believe exactly what you said right here "These people will immediately think that you have bad meanings since who the hell would disarm them to help them," is precisely why this would be awesome role-play to see unfold, because of the crazy plot twist it is.  They / their character will likely be baffled in the situation and that some times is when RP is the best when you yourself are as curious as your character because the role-play is coming most naturally.

Thank you for telling me about that group by the way, thats really awesome that they do that haha wow, what a cool idea.