Harassment vs. Banter

[Yoshi]

Recently, as many may have already noted, the subject of identifying the difference between harassment and banter have come up again. I would like to address the entire community, same I have addressed staff, to ensure my point is not missed. Feel free to share your opinion on this subject, but do keep in mind the subject we are speaking of, and stay on topic. Any off topic questions or ideas should be posted elsewhere or PM'd to the respective user.

I introduced myself many months ago, now, to this community. I have spoken to many on my standpoint as an American military member through many subjects. I can continue to do this, I feel, as the military's policies are the strictest and most fair policies in my eyes regarding the subject. The policies implemented speak a lot regarding the work place and how it negatively affects morale. This can also be applied to any situation, aside from the workplace, as many people in the civilian world experience the same manner of treatment from others in their own workplace and lives away from home.

To clarify exactly what harassment is:

Verbal harassment includes comments that are offensive or unwelcome regarding a person’s nationality, origin, race, color, religion, gender, sexual orientation, age, body, disability or appearance, including epithets, slurs and negative stereotyping.

Nonverbal harassment includes distribution, display or discussion of any written or graphic material that ridicules, denigrates, insults, belittles or shows hostility, aversion or disrespect toward an individual or group because of national origin, race, color, religion, age, gender, sexual orientation, pregnancy, appearance, disability, sexual identity, marital or other protected status.

Now, I understand that those are literally copied and pasted from a website that promotes well-being in workplaces throughout many companies and organizations as a Human Resources collective.

My point is this:

If someone says stop, then STOP. No amount of harassment, or sexual harassment, should be tolerated. It degrades morale of community members here and can constantly be seen by trolls who want to get a rise off of someone. If someone wants to be a part of what many consider to be a mature and respectable role-playing environment, then they themselves must respect the other community members.

I'm not saying that someone isn't allowed to hate another person. Their feelings are within their own right to be thought out however they wish, by discretion, as a human being. No one can take their free will from them.

What I am saying, is that no one should take their feeling of hatred for another and constantly pin it against another person. All it takes to create a problem is a single instance.

To solve the problem, I recommend revising the current policies on harassment within the community, as stated within the rules, to reflect the most stringent definition of the act. I also advise buckling down on those particular rules, as any leniency shown towards this type of conduct PROMOTES misconduct both now and in the future.

When someone says another should stop, the person (provocateur or antagonist) should take it with a grain of salt, whether they like it or not, and stop. Time should be taken to reflect on the action. Apology is not necessary, but one should refrain from future instances of harassment towards that individual.

I am in no way perfect. I, myself, have participated in acts that others felt was harassing in nature, even though I felt as though it was all in good fun. In those certain instances I was able to merely bite my own tongue and reflect on what happened before responding and apologizing (or not) for my acts. The point is, that, I did not do the same thing twice, as I would not expect the same treatment from another individual.

Does this seem fair to some people? No, obviously this will not click in the minds of every single person as a reasonable objective. There will always be someone who thinks they are above another and believes they have the right to be derogatory towards the other.

Is it right? Yes. No one should have to worry about whether they will be degraded, attacked, intimidated, exploited, or bullied.

Now, when is banter no longer banter?

Easy question: ANY time that someone feels they have been harassed is when the line should be drawn. Like I mentioned above: It is no longer "banter" when someone has said to stop. If someone feels that their dignity has been violated, or that the environment has become intimidating, hostile, offensive, humiliating, or degrading, then they are victims of harassment, not subjects of banter.

---

I would also like to add that blackmail, and lack of reporting the subject, then bringing up an instance at a later date, does not make you immune to a circumstance of accusation to which you are currently involved. It only means that you have promoted the act of harassment before by failing to report it and using it to your advantage.

[Grihm]

Post

Anything related to harassment or such should be erased without hesitation. The problem we face here though is that as soon as you draw a line in the sand, you will always have "them" standing with their toes just 1 mm short of crossing it, and when confronted, the shit storm is on and they start to play devils advocate, or just spreading the flame.

The only way to solve it is to revamp the rules and replace the wrist slap with a sledgehammer. If people don´t want to shape up, then stop placing them back in the community to fester and spread their toxicity.

Netiquette is in short supply, but what concerns me more is the way people are basically "getting away with murder" so to say.

If i come to your house for a party, and i piss in your bed, hit your friends and steal your TV, would i be invited again? Don´t think so.

Use the same principle here, and stop try to "better" the people that don´t want to be changed, but rather do all they can to change this.

[Guest Vittoria]

Welcome to the internet.

[Guest Flluroz]

+1 I totally agree with you.

[KpopKilla]

People need to lighten up, you're supposed to come here to have fun. Not freak out because some guy halfway across the world talked a little trash on the internet.

[video=youtube]

Listen to based Tyrone he speaks wisdom.

[Guest]

welcome to the internet where one man's meme is another man's suffering.

Same shit, tbh anybody who does any bullying on the cyberwebs calling people "snakes","fucknuts", all the back talking should stop. I mean it's fine if the other person feels like it's banter, but the moment you act all childish and begin bullying one person.

We all experience bullying at one point in our life, that's why we are in a community and we play video games right?

Something drove us here, last thing we need is someone who act the same as the bullies who bullied us in highschool right?

[DeviousCookieHD]

Yeah, it's bullshit that people abuse the rules to get people banned because they get off on it...

[Guest Zenon]

Post

Anything related to harassment or such should be erased without hesitation. The problem we face here though is that as soon as you draw a line in the sand, you will always have "them" standing with their toes just 1 mm short of crossing it, and when confronted, the shit storm is on and they start to play devils advocate, or just spreading the flame.

The only way to solve it is to revamp the rules and replace the wrist slap with a sledgehammer. If people don´t want to shape up, then stop placing them back in the community to fester and spread their toxicity.

Netiquette is in short supply, but what concerns me more is the way people are basically "getting away with murder" so to say.

If i come to your house for a party, and i piss in your bed, hit your friends and steal your TV, would i be invited again? Don´t think so.

Use the same principle here, and stop try to "better" the people that don´t want to be changed, but rather do all they can to change this.

"The only way to solve it is to revamp the rules and replace the wrist slap with a sledgehammer. If people don´t want to shape up, then stop placing them back in the community to fester and spread their toxicity."

Terrible idea. People are known to make errors or to go too far by accident. Punishing them is all well and good, but ramping punishments to "sledgehammer levels" is too much, I feel.

Calling someone an ethnic slur on the internet or making a joke in relation to their sexual orientation is a far cry from your "getting away with murder" comment. Not acceptable in this community, but definitely not in the same category when it comes to punishments.

[Rick]

It's typically rather clear if somebody is just joking around, or if they're actually serious about their comments. If people know somebody is joking, but they're taking offence, just tell them, or leave the channel and don't hang out with them. I've joked around with plenty of people: the second they tell me I'm going a little too far, I immediately back off. Most everybody just wants to joke around, not actually hurt anybody.

Too often, people just go along with it, then complain/report later. Its a dick move towards the person who just thought everybody was having a good time. Its one thing if you tell them, and they keep doing it, it's another if you never tell them, or give them any clue your hurt by it. Either speak up on the spot, or remove yourself; Don't play victem.

[Guest Flluroz]

It's typically rather clear if somebody is just joking around, or if they're actually serious about their comments. If people know somebody is joking, but they're taking offence, just tell them, or leave the channel and don't hang out with them. I've joked around with plenty of people: the second they tell me I'm going a little too far, I immediately back off. Most everybody just wants to joke around, not actually hurt anybody.

Too often, people just go along with it, then complain/report later. Its a dick move towards the person who just thought everybody was having a good time. Either speak up on the spot, or remove yourself; Don't play victem

He has a point.

[Grihm]

Terrible idea. People are known to make errors or to go too far by accident. Punishing them is all well and good, but ramping punishments to "sledgehammer levels" is too much, I feel.

Calling someone an ethnic slur on the internet or making a joke in relation to their sexual orientation is a far cry from your "getting away with murder" comment. Not acceptable in this community, but definitely not in the same category when it comes to punishments.

Sorry, but i have heard the " It´s only banter lulz kek " bulls*** far to often to even acknowledge it as a response anymore. It´s all fun and games up until it bites you in the ass, then it´s always "aww it was just a little fun - remove points plz". That excuse does not stick!

If people will not shape up, then man up and take the fallout from it as well.

[Guest]

+1 m8

People honestly need to take a chill pill over being "harassed".  I can get so many people banned just because we bantered together and that's what's fucked up.  You say one little thing out of line to someone and they WILL hold it against you in the future.  Then reported, banned, EZ.  It's the fuckin internet people who cares.  

But really all I have to say is... Can we not?  No, really, if you get triggered out of nowhere because someone calls you a name you do not like that isn't even that big of a deal then please stay off the internet.  Go to the rural country or some shit a make a farm with cows.  Because cows do not speak.  Then again people get so offended in this community I wouldn't be surprised if a fucking moo made you jump backwards and make you sprint to the nearest law enforcements and make a complaint about Mary the Mooing Fuckin' Cow.

[Yoshi]

It's typically rather clear if somebody is just joking around, or if they're actually serious about their comments. If people know somebody is joking, but they're taking offence, just tell them, or leave the channel and don't hang out with them. I've joked around with plenty of people: the second they tell me I'm going a little too far, I immediately back off. Most everybody just wants to joke around, not actually hurt anybody.

Too often, people just go along with it, then complain/report later. Its a dick move towards the person who just thought everybody was having a good time. Either speak up on the spot, or remove yourself; Don't play victem

He has a point.

I addressed that point. I agree with you both. This is one of the points I mentioned, and I'm glad that you guys understand it.

That's the part where I mentioned that someone should say stop, and added the end-point about blackmail.

[DeviousCookieHD]

10/10 +1 banter points

[Prince]

[video=youtube]

Dayzrp is a "safe space" right?  I just think people need to be more chill on the interwebs. You control your emotions and responses to flaimbait and harassment no one else.  Also you could just maybe get off the internet if you have you feelings hurt.

[Yoshi]

Dayzrp is a "safe space" right?  I just think people need to be more chill on the interwebs. You control your emotions and responses to flaimbait and harassment no one else.  Also you could just maybe get off the internet if you have you feelings hurt.

This isn't just about people having their feelings hurt or not, it's about people being belittled or mistreated. I'm talking about someone being harassed, not criticized. I feel as though I was pretty clear on my thoughts about the differences.

This is correct, however, as you are the one who controls your emotions, and that's the point I tried to express in mentioned my own wrongdoings and how I managed to handle the situation.

[Gina]

It is funny how many people are saying "Well gett off of the internet if you can't take it" -type of things. Understandable, internet and it's warriors are not for everyone.

The thing is though, that this is a gaming community, more or less private one and enforces it's own rules etc. This is a place where you should not have to fight against those internet warriors and f***wits who thinks that their balls will grow more, the more they banter and insult others.

There is plenty of places in internet where you can banter as much as you want and without any consequences No need to do it here and then complain how your "joke" was taken in wrong way and you got your ass banned for it.

[Guest]

How I handle banter:

Them: Frank fuck you

Me: k

[Yoshi]

How I handle banter:

Them: Frank fuck you

Me: k

That's fine and all, but then imagine that it's not your buddy, but someone random.

Them: Hey, *insert derogatory slur*, fuck you.

You: k.

Them: Fuck you, fucker fucking fuck-face (Imagine something more or less creative, depending on intellect).

You: k.

Them: Yo dumbass ****face scumbag. Go fuck yourself.

You: k.

Accepting it and just saying "k" promotes the idea that people are okay with it. Reporting the situation would prevent someone from being affected by this type of harassment in the future. If it's your buddy, cool, you guys are just giving each other the ol' friendly slug to the shoulder with a smile. If it's someone you don't know, spreading hate, then it's a different story altogether, and that's what I'm pointing at.

[Dogmeat]

[SuperJam]

For the blackmailing discussion and furthermore other situations is there a viable statute of limitations rule you could create and then apply to null their effect/existence? For example, I record you abusing me and intend to use it against you I then have 2-3 days to report it or it becomes null and void.

[Guest Zenon]

Terrible idea. People are known to make errors or to go too far by accident. Punishing them is all well and good, but ramping punishments to "sledgehammer levels" is too much, I feel.

Calling someone an ethnic slur on the internet or making a joke in relation to their sexual orientation is a far cry from your "getting away with murder" comment. Not acceptable in this community, but definitely not in the same category when it comes to punishments.

Sorry, but i have heard the " It´s only banter lulz kek " bulls*** far to often to even acknowledge it as a response anymore. It´s all fun and games up until it bites you in the ass, then it´s always "aww it was just a little fun - remove points plz". That excuse does not stick!

If people will not shape up, then man up and take the fallout from it as well.

I agree with you on the fact that people simply saying "it's only banter" in order to shirk out of any responsibility for their actions is troubling, but not everyone who says something offensive is intending to mean personal harm. Punishing every single person down the line for the behavior of a toxic few just isn't the way.

[HiGGi]

-Double post-

[Yoshi]

For the blackmailing discussion and furthermore other situations is there a viable statute of limitations rule you could create and then apply to null their effect/existence? For example, I record you abusing me and intend to use it against you I then have 2-3 days to report it or it becomes null and void.

Something like that would only be viable as not being blackmail if you intended to use it right away. If you're using those 2-3 days to make a substantial report, then yes, it's fine. If you're using those 2-3 days to poke at them until they feel harassed, and then say "But look here, you harassed me a few days ago," then no, this is the wrong answer.

If you were to hold it for a later date with the intent of screwing someone over the minute they tried to mess with you, you are part of the problem. If you forget about it and use it later because you don't like something they're doing, you are also a part of the problem. Reason being is because, chances are, if you've forgotten about it, then it wasn't that bad in the first place, and you only hold ill intent at that point.

[Skeetsi]

Some people are just more sensitive than others and easily see basic banter as harassment, that's just a fact.

Just a real life example here.

During my time here in the army you can quickly spot those who seem to have a little lower self esteem and really can't take too many jokes before getting offended. Maybe they've been bullied at school earlier, I don't know. Many seem like that they have. That's why you've gotta be careful with them and not banter them too much.

Whilst there's the other part which you can banter with all day long and they banter back and nobody really gives a shit or gets offended. The banter does get intense sometimes believe me, living in a relatively small room with 11 other lads 5 days a week may sometimes cause some conflicts.

In short, some are just more sensitive than others. There's an extremely thin line between harassment and banter.