RDM (KoS) S1

[DJScotchTape]

Server and location: 

S1 Green Mountain

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME): 

31/10/2015 1:14 Server Time

Daytime or Night-time: 

Daytime

Your in game name: 

Benny Clay

Names of allies involved: 

Pestilence Brotherhood

Name/Skin of suspect/s: 

Irish

Suspects weapon/s: 

AK or M4 silenced.

Friendly/Enemy vehicles involved (if any): 

None.

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot): 

Someone might have a recording

Detailed description of the events:

Well, I was with the Pestilence Brotherhood, and I was running south kind of with Wong. We saw the Irish at Pustoshka and ran south. I ran south, past Green Mountain near Zelenogorsk, more than 500m away from GM. I was planning on circling pas GM and returning to north of Novy to meet up with the rest of my group. 

Two of my group mates got initated on at GM (WHILE I WAS OVER 500M OUT) and did not comply. One of them was shot and killed, probably 300m from Pogarevka. I made an effort to avoid GM completely because I thought the initiation was located in the compound only. So while I was running North of Green Mountain, one of the accused ran out of nowhere and shouted, "Hey man what's up what're you doing?!?" and I turned around only to get sprayed down immediately. 

I went and talked to them in their coms and they are certain they didn't break any rules. When I got back into my coms Wong pointed out that their justification in killing me, would mean that they could walk up to him in Zeb castle and just gun him down, because he was a part of the same group.

When I was in their coms they also mentioned how we had killed 6 of them today. So I feel like this was an OOC salt based initiation because some of them died, and actually lost a firefight for once.

I was never initiated on. I was not able to use KoS rights because I was over 500M out from the original initation. I just got yelled at for running, and sprayed down. No attempt to RP, no attempt to talk to me. 

By the Irish's logic, if one of your group members doesn't comply, they have KoS on your entire group. They told me I was in the "combat zone" which apparently encompasses a 1km radius of GM, and they can spray down people willy nilly because someone you might know didn't comply.

[tnkydoe]

I used my shadowplay as soon as you came into our comms, sadly it only grabbed after I killed you. Basically, Lewis and I were talking to some TPB and Wolves at GM pretending we were trying to fight the irish looking for help. TPB was talking shit about some fight from earlier, idk I wasn't on but anyways my group runs up and initiates. Everyone takes off running and Lewis chases two guys. I follow behind and Lewis guns the guys down in the field North of GM. I circle around the field east and see you running from GM in the field. I yell to you to get your attention and when you stopped, I killed you.

TLDR: Your group was involved in a firefight in which they (failed?) to mention to you? You were roughly 400m from GM when I killed you and you where running north from the trees which means there is no way you were 500 out unless you ran up to GM after the initiation and then turned around to run towards Pogorevka. You're trying to use the rules to protect you and honestly it is disappointing.

Also

So I feel like this was an OOC salt based initiation because some of them died, and actually lost a firefight for once.

Firstly this was used out of context, as the reason we are justifying the initiation was the fact your guys were bragging IG about killing 6 of us. For you to say it was OOC based is a hell of a thing. Quite honestly I could say the same, I could argue that you were understanding in TS but your guys were mad about dying so you made a report. Everything we did leading up to the initiation was done IC.

[DJScotchTape]

I used my shadowplay as soon as you came into our comms, sadly it only grabbed after I killed you. Basically, Lewis and I were talking to some TPB and Wolves at GM pretending we were trying to fight the irish looking for help. TPB was talking shit about some fight from earlier, idk I wasn't on but anyways my group runs up and initiates. Everyone takes off running and Lewis chases two guys. I follow behind and Lewis guns the guys down in the field North of GM. I circle around the field east and see you running from GM in the field. I yell to you to get your attention and when you stopped, I killed you.

TLDR: Your group was involved in a firefight in which they (failed?) to mention to you? You were roughly 400m from GM when I killed you and you where running north from the trees which means there is no way you were 500 out unless you ran up to GM after the initiation and then turned around to run towards Pogorevka. You're trying to use the rules to protect you and honestly it is disappointing.

Also

So I feel like this was an OOC salt based initiation because some of them died, and actually lost a firefight for once.

Firstly this was used out of context, as the reason we are justifying the initiation was the fact your guys were bragging IG about killing 6 of us. For you to say it was OOC based is a hell of a thing. Quite honestly I could say the same, I could argue that you were understanding in TS but your guys were mad about dying so you made a report. Everything we did leading up to the initiation was done IC.

None of us had fired a shot at you. None of us had taken any hostile action against you. You had no KOS rights on me. I was 900m out from the initial initiation. I'm not mad. I can't speak my opinion in a TS against a channel of 7 other guys who think they're right. I'm not going to sit there and argue about how you all think you're right. The kill was bogus and you and yours were too PvP happy. 

If you had initiated on me, or even talked to me, this would be a different story. But you didn't. You just fuckin shot me for no reason. I'm not posting unless staff requests.

[tnkydoe]

I used my shadowplay as soon as you came into our comms, sadly it only grabbed after I killed you. Basically, Lewis and I were talking to some TPB and Wolves at GM pretending we were trying to fight the irish looking for help. TPB was talking shit about some fight from earlier, idk I wasn't on but anyways my group runs up and initiates. Everyone takes off running and Lewis chases two guys. I follow behind and Lewis guns the guys down in the field North of GM. I circle around the field east and see you running from GM in the field. I yell to you to get your attention and when you stopped, I killed you.

TLDR: Your group was involved in a firefight in which they (failed?) to mention to you? You were roughly 400m from GM when I killed you and you where running north from the trees which means there is no way you were 500 out unless you ran up to GM after the initiation and then turned around to run towards Pogorevka. You're trying to use the rules to protect you and honestly it is disappointing.

Also

So I feel like this was an OOC salt based initiation because some of them died, and actually lost a firefight for once.

Firstly this was used out of context, as the reason we are justifying the initiation was the fact your guys were bragging IG about killing 6 of us. For you to say it was OOC based is a hell of a thing. Quite honestly I could say the same, I could argue that you were understanding in TS but your guys were mad about dying so you made a report. Everything we did leading up to the initiation was done IC.

None of us had fired a shot at you. None of us had taken any hostile action against you. You had no KOS rights on me. I was 900m out from the initial initiation. I'm not mad. I can't speak my opinion in a TS against a channel of 7 other guys who think they're right. I'm not going to sit there and argue about how you all think you're right. The kill was bogus and you and yours were too PvP happy. 

If you had initiated on me, or even talked to me, this would be a different story. But you didn't. You just fuckin shot me for no reason. I'm not posting unless staff requests.

Basically you're implying you weren't a threat correct? Your guys didn't comply, that's hostile. Where were you when we initiated? Because When I shot you, like i said you were 400m away running down from where we just initiated, so i'm curious. 

This is a simple case of ruleplay over roleplay....

[Brad]

Hit Logs:

01:15:54 | "Eamon O Canavan SHOT Benny Clay by UMP45 into RightArm."
01:15:54 | "Eamon O Canavan SHOT Benny Clay by UMP45 into Chest."

Kill Logs:

01:15:54 | Player "Benny Clay" has been killed by player "Eamon O Canavan"

Chat Logs:

02:19:36 | Player "Eamon O Canavan" has been disconnected

[DJScotchTape]

*snop*

Lol what role play? The kind where you run up and mow me down and call me a dick head when I'm dead? I was close to Zelenogork gas station when i heard you initiated. I was never closer than 300m to Greem Mountian. I had no KOS on you, nor did I pose a threat. Your only Id on me was an armband. Now I'm done

[tnkydoe]

Go within 500m of an active firefight with your group and expected not get shot? Not only were you within 500 of the spot of initiation but you were within 200m of your friends we had just killed. You didn't expect to take repercussions because of the rules, so basically you thought you were invincible. Yes I used your armband to ID you, isn't that why groups choose to wear armbands? Maybe you shouldn't wear one if you want to run near your groups active firefights and not get shot.

[Brad]

cut the back and forth. Staff will ask questions as needed.

[David Bonaparte]

Elijah marley's PoV: I was at GM with Jay Clark, a few of the wolves and randoms. We warn the wolves about soairse and the randoms proposed their help. We refused it and the random person mentioned that soairse are pretty much invincible. I tell him that they're not, 6 of them got shot today ( I think that's the shit talk you're referring too, which in my opinion isn't shit talk at all but was a normal reaction after someone mentioned you're pretty much invincible, that same person who said this was one of your guys ). Random person than again proposes his help and we refuse it again, that's when somebody initiated and I took off towards Zelegorosk and lost them easily.

Since you guys knew there were two brothers at gm you identified Benny as the second guy after you killed Jay Clark.

But I was the second guy on who you had KoS rights. You did not have KoS rights on Benny since you did not initiate on him.

You miss id'd him, you didn't care to initiate on him cause you wanted to have the advantage.

[tnkydoe]

Elijah marley's PoV: I was at GM with Jay Clark, a few of the wolves and randoms. We warn the wolves about soairse and the randoms proposed their help. We refused it and the random person mentioned that soairse are pretty much invincible. I tell him that they're not, 6 of them got shot today ( I think that's the shit talk you're referring too, which in my opinion isn't shit talk at all but was a normal reaction after someone mentioned you're pretty much invincible, that same person who said this was one of your guys ). Random person than again proposes his help and we refuse it again, that's when somebody initiated and I took off towards Zelegorosk and lost them easily.

Since you guys knew there were two brothers at gm you identified Benny as the second guy after you killed Jay Clark.

But I was the second guy on who you had KoS rights. You did not have KoS rights on Benny since you did not initiate on him.

You miss id'd him, you didn't care to initiate on him cause you wanted to have the advantage.

I was by myself and he had a better weapon then me and could have easily had the upper hand on me, of course i'm going to shoot somebody I know is with the hostile clan and in the area. Why would I initiate and risk my life when i'm in a firefight with your group? If he was at zeleno gas when we initiated, they're plenty of ways to avoid GM like he claimed other than running within 500m of it.

Note: I tried to be as accurate as possible but I might be a tad off. Anyways, shows you took a very poor direction to "avoid" the fight.

[Terra]

Someone might have a recording

Do you know if there is a video of this scenario?

[Autumn]

C.J Hobbs PoV: After meeting up with the Saorsie lads and travelling with them for awhile, I was kinda happy to see Chernarus through their eyes, see how they do things and RP. I was pleasantly surprised and stayed around, helping them pick up the trail of Jay Wong.

The trail is first picked up on at Pustoshka petrol station. While our intiation could have been here, we hesitated and thus ended up intisting on the wrong person. After apologies were exchanged, the lot of us decided and reasoned that they were headed to GM. As such, we headed that way as well, making haste in doing so.

I arrived at the tail end of the intiation, but I heard it clearly on the compound. During this, I could have shot and killed Jamie, but I did not as I felt that risking KoS wasn't worth it. After aa light clear, I go and join the lads down at the base of the hill on the North side, just South of where the accused marked where the OP was shot and killed.

From the situation on hand, the OP was shot, fell unconscious and was double-tapped soon after for not complying. Beyond that, that is the conclusion.

Whilst my recording program was open, I didn't think this was a recordable event and thus didn't press the hotkey down. If there are any other questions that need be answered I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.

[Gina]

I arrived at the tail end of the intiation, but I heard it clearly on the compound. During this, I could have shot and killed Jamie, but I did not as I felt that risking KoS wasn't worth it. After aa light clear, I go and join the lads down at the base of the hill on the North side, just South of where the accused marked where the OP was shot and killed.

From the situation on hand, the OP was shot, fell unconscious and was double-tapped soon after for not complying. Beyond that, that is the conclusion.

I want to clarify that the OP was not killed for non compliance, as he was never at GM. Not during the initiation nor after it. The one who was killed for non compliance, aka running away, was Jay Clark and that kill was legit.

EDIT: I also want to ask about this...

Basically you're implying you weren't a threat correct? Your guys didn't comply, that's hostile. Where were you when we initiated? Because When I shot you, like i said you were 400m away running down from where we just initiated, so i'm curious. 

This is a simple case of ruleplay over roleplay....

How non hostile non compliance is hostile in your eyes? I mean sure if someone is not complying by opening fire on his/her initiators, that is hostile, but running away and never fireing a single shot towards the initiators... I don't think that is hostile.

[tnkydoe]

I arrived at the tail end of the intiation, but I heard it clearly on the compound. During this, I could have shot and killed Jamie, but I did not as I felt that risking KoS wasn't worth it. After aa light clear, I go and join the lads down at the base of the hill on the North side, just South of where the accused marked where the OP was shot and killed.

From the situation on hand, the OP was shot, fell unconscious and was double-tapped soon after for not complying. Beyond that, that is the conclusion.

I want to clarify that the OP was not killed for non compliance, as he was never at GM. Not during the initiation nor after it. The one who was killed for non compliance, aka running away, was Jay Clark and that kill was legit.

EDIT: I also want to ask about this...

Basically you're implying you weren't a threat correct? Your guys didn't comply, that's hostile. Where were you when we initiated? Because When I shot you, like i said you were 400m away running down from where we just initiated, so i'm curious. 

This is a simple case of ruleplay over roleplay....

How non hostile non compliance is hostile in your eyes? I mean sure if someone is not complying by opening fire on his/her initiators, that is hostile, but running away and never fireing a single shot towards the initiators... I don't think that is hostile.

Armed men not complying at running for cover seems hostile to me? The fact that your group could now kill me is a danger to my character. Especially when you group was just talking about killing 6 of my group members. So yea, hostile.....

Note : Autumn was talking about the wrong guy.

Edit: also, what was your involvement in the situation?

[Conor]

Who was it who initiated on the compound from the side of the Saoirse?

[Jamie]

I'm currently uploading a video of the events, if you think it is required. Should be done by tomorrow morning.

[tnkydoe]

Who was it who initiated on the compound from the side of the Saoirse?

Honestly not sure,  i was muted talking ig when it happened, i will find out when i get home from work.

[DJScotchTape]

I apologize for being shitty at doing anything on the computer, but this shows my movement and where I am actually killed. Tnkydoe if you have right after my death shadowplayed, it might be useful in showing where I was actually killed.

[tnkydoe]

Video is a good 2 minutes after i killed you, im already back in the trees looking for the other non compliance ppl. Regardless, based off your route you obviously didn't try to avoid the fight. I'm done posting here unless requested by staff.

Note: ill find out who initiated for connor.

Edit: Also the ops markers are more accurate. I got the treeline his friends where running to mixed up. They died where i thought he died.

[Conor]

FYI: Staff have been provided with a video that proves the OP was not at Green Mountain at the time of the initiation.

[tnkydoe]

FYI: Staff have been provided with a video that proves the OP was not at Green Mountain at the time of the initiation.

Yuri Ubiytsa was the initiator.

[DJScotchTape]

Video is a good 2 minutes after i killed you, im already back in the trees looking for the other non compliance ppl. Regardless, based off your route you obviously didn't try to avoid the fight. I'm done posting here unless requested by staff.

Note: ill find out who initiated for connor.

Edit: Also the ops markers are more accurate. I got the treeline his friends where running to mixed up. They died where i thought he died.

There was no fight. We didn't fire a single shot at you. I didn't fire a single shot at you. 

Also, earlier you compared our weapons and declared I was a threat so you had to kill me before I killed you. The thing is, you made contact with me first, ran up to me, and shot me. I didn't even see/hear you until you spoke and I turned around. Like I've said, I didn't even have KoS rights.  You could've let me keep on runnin' and nothing would've happened. YOU decided to engage me. YOU decided to shoot. I was unaware that you can shoot and kill someone even if they weren't seen during the original initiation/5 minutes after the original initiation.  

No matter what the verdict is, I just want my dissatisfaction with the PvP/Initiate only play style to be known. Because it tends to end up with me getting shot for no reason.

[tnkydoe]

Video is a good 2 minutes after i killed you, im already back in the trees looking for the other non compliance ppl. Regardless, based off your route you obviously didn't try to avoid the fight. I'm done posting here unless requested by staff.

Note: ill find out who initiated for connor.

Edit: Also the ops markers are more accurate. I got the treeline his friends where running to mixed up. They died where i thought he died.

There was no fight. We didn't fire a single shot at you. I didn't fire a single shot at you. 

Also, earlier you compared our weapons and declared I was a threat so you had to kill me before I killed you. The thing is, you made contact with me first, ran up to me, and shot me. I didn't even see/hear you until you spoke and I turned around. Like I've said, I didn't even have KoS rights.  You could've let me keep on runnin' and nothing would've happened. YOU decided to engage me. YOU decided to shoot. I was unaware that you can shoot and kill someone even if they weren't seen during the original initiation/5 minutes after the original initiation.  

No matter what the verdict is, I just want my dissatisfaction with the PvP/Initiate only play style to be known. Because it tends to end up with me getting shot for no reason.

All in all if you're guys didn't want to get shot they shouldn't have ran. If you didn't want to get shot you shouldn't ran near where your clan members where running from an active initiation. PvP was only involved since your group didnt comply... I took you as part of the group yes because your guys ran off and you were dressed the same. If i'm at fault here, I accept that. However I find it ridiculous I can be found guilty for shooting somebody who is in a group im in a situation with (Hostile at that) and dressed the same. Especially when the op could have easily avoided everything by just not going RIGHT passed gm where we initiated.

[David Bonaparte]

All in all if you're guys didn't want to get shot they shouldn't have ran. If you didn't want to get shot you shouldn't ran near where your clan members where running from an active initiation. PvP was only involved since your group didnt comply... I took you as part of the group yes because your guys ran off and you were dressed the same. If i'm at fault here, I accept that. However I find it ridiculous I can be found guilty for shooting somebody who is in a group im in a situation with (Hostile at that) and dressed the same. Especially when the op could have easily avoided everything by just not going RIGHT passed gm where we initiated.

I believe Benny did not have a beret on, only a red armband around his arm and he had a black tactical shirt ( which isn't part of our uniform ). Zbor uses that armband too. Why did you not ID him as a Zbor member? Why were you so sure he was from the brotherhood?

In the end it's a KoS and there definitely is a rule break. Benny tried to talk with you about it on teamspeak, but it seemed like putting up a report was the only way to let you see that there IS a rule break.

After all PoV's have been given you still think you respected all rules, but you didn't. Initiating on me and sean didn't give you KoS rights on Benny, neither did Benny have KoS rights on you.

All in all if you're guys didn't want to get shot they shouldn't have ran.

The person that didn't want to get shot was a person who you didn't initiate on. You did not have rights to kill him.

I decided to not comply and didn't get shot. The 'your guys' here, are one you had KoS rights on and one you KoS'd. How can somebody who had nothing to do with the initiation ( All the people around the compound ( GM compound ) put your guns down or die ) be shot a bit over 500 meter away from where the  initiation happened not be considered as KoS? This shouldn't even be a miss ID cause the original 'firefight' ( if we can call that ) happened 500 meters away from where Benny died, you actively searched for the brotherhood near pogorevka and shot the first guy you saw barely matching the description.

If the person that died wouldve been Zbor, would you have admitted that you KoS'd him?

PvP was only involved since your group didnt comply...

2 people = whole group? What are you on about? Do you truly believe the initiation at GM gave you KoS rights on ALL TBP members?

[tnkydoe]

All in all if you're guys didn't want to get shot they shouldn't have ran. If you didn't want to get shot you shouldn't ran near where your clan members where running from an active initiation. PvP was only involved since your group didnt comply... I took you as part of the group yes because your guys ran off and you were dressed the same. If i'm at fault here, I accept that. However I find it ridiculous I can be found guilty for shooting somebody who is in a group im in a situation with (Hostile at that) and dressed the same. Especially when the op could have easily avoided everything by just not going RIGHT passed gm where we initiated.

I believe Benny did not have a beret on, only a red armband around his arm and he had a black tactical shirt ( which isn't part of our uniform ). Zbor uses that armband too. Why did you not ID him as a Zbor member? Why were you so sure he was from the brotherhood?

In the end it's a KoS and there definitely is a rule break. Benny tried to talk with you about it on teamspeak, but it seemed like putting up a report was the only way to let you see that there IS a rule break.

After all PoV's have been given you still think you respected all rules, but you didn't. Initiating on me and sean didn't give you KoS rights on Benny, neither did Benny have KoS rights on you.

All in all if you're guys didn't want to get shot they shouldn't have ran.

The person that didn't want to get shot was a person who you didn't initiate on. You did not have rights to kill him.

I decided to not comply and didn't get shot. The 'your guys' here, are one you had KoS rights on and one you KoS'd. How can somebody who had nothing to do with the initiation ( All the people around the compound ( GM compound ) put your guns down or die ) be shot a bit over 500 meter away from where the  initiation happened not be considered as KoS? This shouldn't even be a miss ID cause the original 'firefight' ( if we can call that ) happened 500 meters away from where Benny died, you actively searched for the brotherhood near pogorevka and shot the first guy you saw barely matching the description.

If the person that died wouldve been Zbor, would you have admitted that you KoS'd him?

You are trying to run a hypothetical here saying "what if" but this isn't like that in any sense. If they were actually unaware of the situations then yes I would claim guilty and take a punishment. However your friend was completely aware and decided to run through an active firefight area (yes, once you decided not to comply and run into cover it becomes an active firefight.) Benny was 200-300m away from where his friend died. I was looping around to go back into the forest when I see him in the field running down from GM. I asked it multiple times with still no answer, but what part of his route is avoiding the incident like he claimed? He expected the rules to protect him as he ran through an active firefight area, either that or he was baiting to get shot to make this report. 

We tried talking to him in TS and argued the same thing we are now. In fact he said and I quote "I understand why you killed me." Ill see if we have a recording of the TS convo.