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Grihm

Revamping the combat rules towards a fair middle ground solution.

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Here is the rule on combat logging 

"The staff of DayZRP judge that people who log out in order to avoid retribution for their actions or as a method to avoid imminent player interaction will have combat logged.

You cannot log out when another player wishes to communicate with you. If you are already in the presence of others and need to log out it is generally good form to ask them to type their permission in direct to ensure that you are not impacting their RP by doing so. Break line of sight with those you committed a hostile act against and wait a minimum of 15 minutes from the time you broke line of sight before logging out.

Switching between connected servers (aka ghosting) to gain any kind of advantage is strictly forbidden."

Will someone tell me where it says you must stay logged in for 2 hours? How i understand it is if you log out in order to avoid retribution that is combat logging. It does not say anywhere that i cant long after the 15 minutes because i'm bored or just want to do something else. If we could get a admin to clear up the confusion on this rule i think it would help out a lot.

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Here is the rule on combat logging 

"The staff of DayZRP judge that people who log out in order to avoid retribution for their actions or as a method to avoid imminent player interaction will have combat logged.

You cannot log out when another player wishes to communicate with you. If you are already in the presence of others and need to log out it is generally good form to ask them to type their permission in direct to ensure that you are not impacting their RP by doing so. Break line of sight with those you committed a hostile act against and wait a minimum of 15 minutes from the time you broke line of sight before logging out.

Switching between connected servers (aka ghosting) to gain any kind of advantage is strictly forbidden."

Will someone tell me where it says you must stay logged in for 2 hours? How i understand it is if you log out in order to avoid retribution that is combat logging. It does not say anywhere that i cant long after the 15 minutes because i'm bored or just want to do something else. If we could get a admin to clear up the confusion on this rule i think it would help out a lot.

"You can take revenge for a hostile action taken against you for 2 hours from the time hostile action was taken, as long as it does not conflict with the other rules."

In order for the victim to be able to HAVE the two hour timer, the initiator is to stay in the game if possible. If that is NOT how it is being verdicted and interpreted, that is how it NEEDS to be verdicted and interpreted. Otherwise, the OP is correct with his issue. 

I would also argue that doing otherwise is NOT doing this: 

"Always prioritize role play over rule play."

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Now reading through other posts I do agree that bandits are just in it for PVP and Hostile RP.

Woah woah woah, did you actually just say this? The last thing I want is to start an argument, but this sounds as if you have pure hate for bandit groups and is borderline ignorant. Maybe you haven't been in a decent bandit group, and that I understand, but come on this is uncalled for. I am truly sorry that everyone doesn't feel like sitting by a fire from the second they log in to when they log out. 

Bandit groups often attempt to simply RP with people, but it doesn't help when everyone they meet just run away and provide zero RP. All groups are different and I agree some just look for PvP; however, this by no means is every bandit group. I can't believe no one has been offended by this yet, but it sounds like pure flame/hate. 

Also, BDSM? Is that even needed?

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[align=left]-snip-

Very constructive criticism Riggs. Don't cut too deep. - If you have nothing constructive to say - don't say it.  The thread is a suggestion that is presented: give the OP a break.

In a real argument/serious opinion on the matter.

We need to move from our current understanding of hostility (which seems, often, very limited to robbing and PvP), and understand that everything from mild disagreements to mind-fucking to torture are included in hostilities, particularly in a ROLE PLAY environment.

^^ This is the biggest problem. Bandits for the most part do the same old stuff, and it gets very boring drop weapons, //search for radio do I find one, walk for 30 mins while people rp around and then expect the hostage to be all buddy - buddy asking questions.  Then they ask it all for a bs IC reason of have you seen ____ individual, while looting up as everyone laughs on ts as the one guy gives minimal rp.  I'm not saying that all bandits provide trash rp - but there are many more then there should be.  Bandit rp should be looked on to a higher standard and should be verdicted more strictly in reports. If your going to play a bandit - do it right or not at all. Removing the 15 minutes or adding to it won't change the affect : our server needs to get out of this mentality of it.

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Now reading through other posts I do agree that bandits are just in it for PVP and Hostile RP.

Woah woah woah, did you actually just say this? The last thing I want is to start an argument, but this sounds as if you have pure hate for bandit groups and is borderline ignorant. Maybe you haven't been in a decent bandit group, and that I understand, but come on this is uncalled for. I am truly sorry that everyone doesn't feel like sitting by a fire from the second they log in to when they log out. 

Bandit groups often attempt to simply RP with people, but it doesn't help when everyone they meet just run away and provide zero RP. All groups are different and I agree some just look for PvP; however, this by no means is every bandit group. I can't believe no one has been offended by this yet, but it sounds like pure flame/hate. 

Also, BDSM? Is that even needed?

While it is a hell of a statement to say every bandit group is after a certain thing : though I can agree to the argument that this is happening much more often then it should be. Most hostile rp is stale/boring with most bandits refusing to think under the box or have a purpose or direction other then looking for the next person to rob. This is the mentality that needs to change.

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While it is a hell of a statement to say every bandit group is after a certain thing : though I can agree to the argument that this is happening much more often then it should be. Most hostile rp is stale/boring with most bandits refusing to think under the box or have a purpose or direction other then looking for the next person to rob. This is the mentality that needs to change.

You are right. Some bandits are really shitty and ruin rp. So lets make a rules that nots going to stop  bad RP and is only harm the people that actually need to go for a reason. Now that i understand i'm fully up for this rule change.

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Now reading through other posts I do agree that bandits are just in it for PVP and Hostile RP.

Woah woah woah, did you actually just say this? The last thing I want is to start an argument, but this sounds as if you have pure hate for bandit groups and is borderline ignorant. Maybe you haven't been in a decent bandit group, and that I understand, but come on this is uncalled for. I am truly sorry that everyone doesn't feel like sitting by a fire from the second they log in to when they log out. 

Bandit groups often attempt to simply RP with people, but it doesn't help when everyone they meet just run away and provide zero RP. All groups are different and I agree some just look for PvP; however, this by no means is every bandit group. I can't believe no one has been offended by this yet, but it sounds like pure flame/hate. 

Also, BDSM? Is that even needed?

While it is a hell of a statement to say every bandit group is after a certain thing : though I can agree to the argument that this is happening much more often then it should be. Most hostile rp is stale/boring with most bandits refusing to think under the box or have a purpose or direction other then looking for the next person to rob. This is the mentality that needs to change.

I sorta understand where you are coming from here, since there are many bandit groups like this; however, not every bandit group is and it's offensive as hell when every group is thrown into a single "badRP/toxic" category.

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Now reading through other posts I do agree that bandits are just in it for PVP and Hostile RP. 

This is not exactly the problem. Some people specialize in hostile RP and are fabulous at it. There's no reason NOT to want to do hostile RP, or make a character for it. 

The problem comes when it is stale and meaningless, lacking in build-up, or actual IC motivation (which is a SERIOUS problem around here). Other problems include when a group gets in and decides NOT to RP out a legitimate goal, with RP relationships that they're developing over a number of encounters - but instead they decide "Well, let's go a-robbing". 

You can see groups who process hostages like McDonald's sells cheeseburgers, coming up with the flimsiest excuses to initiate on just about every person they see because they're either afraid of - or incapable of dealing with - not feeling like they're the ones in control of the RP. 

The problem comes with stale, repetitive, NOT frightening RP. I'm sorry - we've all survived almost a year in the apocalypse, a monotone voice and that gun in your hand really doesn't impress me. 

Other problems come when bandits get upset that the 'victim' character didn't follow the script they have in their own head: "What happened? I just wanted some hostage RP with you?" Uh...my character doesn't know shit about wanting hostile RP, and I write HER part of the script. 

It's a two-way street. Everyone needs to be getting creative, thinking outside of the box, and getting away from a goal of ending avatars and perma-deathing characters. Broaden the hostile horizons.

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Solution: all bandits must be approved and run through an audition first by people approved by the administration staff.

No approval and your robbing people, points to you.

Really want to rob people? Then step up your game and practice practice practice. Maybe apprentice under one of the approved bandits.

It's a craft, treat it as one.

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While it is a hell of a statement to say every bandit group is after a certain thing : though I can agree to the argument that this is happening much more often then it should be. Most hostile rp is stale/boring with most bandits refusing to think under the box or have a purpose or direction other then looking for the next person to rob. This is the mentality that needs to change.

You are right. Some bandits are really shitty and ruin rp. So lets make a rules that nots going to stop  bad RP and is only harm the people that actually need to go for a reason. Now that i understand i'm fully up for this rule change.

I personally think the only way to do this is to enforce a more strict punishment/mentality of bad rp punishments in reports (by this I mean raising the standard for bandit rp) for bandits particularly. Quality rp should be the top priority, generating stories, and forwarding story arcs not just going to use KOS rights to kill. People shouldn't be punished after 15 minutes as it gives the hostage enough time to find them, and chances are they won't log off. If they are found abusing this rule: make a report. But yes - JD I agree with you on this. This suggestion of combat logging changes isn't the answer. Its improving the quality of rp for both parties. Since the bandit is controlling and if you will leading the rp similar to as someone leads a dance: the standard on the quality of rp of the person having the hostage should be put to a higher standard? Am I say eliminate bandits and create a zone with no pvp? No - however I believe that the quality of bandit rp for many people is too low and needs to be more strictly judge. Punishing people in emergencies isn't the answer

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Now reading through other posts I do agree that bandits are just in it for PVP and Hostile RP.

Woah woah woah, did you actually just say this? The last thing I want is to start an argument, but this sounds as if you have pure hate for bandit groups and is borderline ignorant. Maybe you haven't been in a decent bandit group, and that I understand, but come on this is uncalled for. I am truly sorry that everyone doesn't feel like sitting by a fire from the second they log in to when they log out. 

Bandit groups often attempt to simply RP with people, but it doesn't help when everyone they meet just run away and provide zero RP. All groups are different and I agree some just look for PvP; however, this by no means is every bandit group. I can't believe no one has been offended by this yet, but it sounds like pure flame/hate. 

Also, BDSM? Is that even needed?

To be completely honest with you Rider, Certified is kind of in the right in the sense of Bandit/PvP-RP. It is very rare at this point for a bandit group to even consider RP that includes sitting in one place without constantly being devious bastards IC. I've encountered nearly every single Bandit group on the servers since the time that I've been here and needless to say, they are nearly all the same OOCly. Now, to give you some credit, you're most likely in the right when you say "Maybe you haven't been in a decent bandit group". It is definitely all about perspective and I will admit I am rather bias against bandit groups mainly for their repeated RP style. It does very much seem like most people who join a bandit group really just care about robbing and shooting people so with that in mind, I can see why she'd post that. Everyone who doesn't RP a bandit sees them as nothing but bandits and the people who RP bandits will defend bandit RP because they don't see the perspective of a survivalist RPer and vice versa.

As for the actual topic, I'm going to have to agree with Wendsill. It does very much seem like your concept of the rules regarding group initiations is bent to better fit your argument. Sure, what you wrote on "how it is" is painfully accurate on how many group initiations go (especially when there is very little reason for the initiation to begin with) but still. The whole side of Perma-Deaths have been brought up time and time again. People are either for it or against it and it will never be included in any set of rules as it goes against many player's playstyles.

If you died, brush it off and keep on playing with a smile. Sure, dying is frustrating an it's even worse when you realize it was for nothing but to shoot their guns but it is also part of what you joined the community for. The best thing to do is RP to your hearts content regardless of what happens and hope people respond in kind rather than shooting you.

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Alright there, no need for the memes.

Here's the one warning ill give for this thread.

Keep it on track.

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Woah woah woah, did you actually just say this? The last thing I want is to start an argument, but this sounds as if you have pure hate for bandit groups and is borderline ignorant. Maybe you haven't been in a decent bandit group, and that I understand, but come on this is uncalled for. I am truly sorry that everyone doesn't feel like sitting by a fire from the second they log in to when they log out. 

Bandit groups often attempt to simply RP with people, but it doesn't help when everyone they meet just run away and provide zero RP. All groups are different and I agree some just look for PvP; however, this by no means is every bandit group. I can't believe no one has been offended by this yet, but it sounds like pure flame/hate. 

Also, BDSM? Is that even needed?

While it is a hell of a statement to say every bandit group is after a certain thing : though I can agree to the argument that this is happening much more often then it should be. Most hostile rp is stale/boring with most bandits refusing to think under the box or have a purpose or direction other then looking for the next person to rob. This is the mentality that needs to change.

I sorta understand where you are coming from here, since there are many bandit groups like this; however, not every bandit group is and it's offensive as hell when every group is thrown into a single "badRP/toxic" category.

Of course, the argument of all bandits - is an ignorant statement however Clutz is not far from here facts on many bandit groups prevalent. Though there are good bandit groups.

Solution: all bandits must be approved and run through an audition first by people approved by the administration staff.

No approval and your robbing people, points to you.

Really want to rob people? Then step up your game and practice practice practice. Maybe apprentice under one of the approved bandits.

It's a craft, treat it as one.

I think the solution would be the second half - some groups I can particulary name like the Highwaymen take on newer bandit apprentices to show them the way of bandit by those who have an expanded knowledge of banditry. I think that giving people the opportunity/resource to expand their knowledge and try different techniques should be a priority for bandits.

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I've been in bandit groups before and have taken part in hostlities so please do not take my words and try to make it sound like flame or hate as the post in reply to mine seems like an attempt to start some kind of war. It's my opinion in which I'm entitled to. I have no Ill feelings or hate towards bandit groups. I feel as if the amount of good bandit rpers has dwindled leaving the ones who do nothing but pick for a reason to initiate only to give half ass hostage rp.

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I can understand where you're coming from with this, but you need to understand that we're in a post apocalyptic world. You can be a farmer if you wish, but I guarrentee if this was real life, a group of guys would come and take all the food you grow, and leave you with nothing. People would be desperate, and looking for anything they can take.

With the current rules, there is no advantage for either party. If the bandits get the jump on their victims, then they make an advantage for themselves. There are so many other factors that give people the advantage, this could vary from numbers, to positioning.

You have to remember, that there are bandits to create a fear factor. You should be scared of being robbed or killed, and you should expect it. PvP is always going to be a part of this community, you can't eliminate it. If you choose not to comply with demands, you expect PvP, and you must understand the risks, hence the so called 'bandit dance', just incase the victims have a sniper. And of course, people will die, but they shouldn't have to perma death.

Robbing people every hour is not too much, Chernarus is a harsh world, there will be hostilities, there is no need for a middle ground.

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I've encountered nearly every single Bandit group on the servers since the time that I've been here and needless to say, they are nearly all the same OOCly.

I'm sorry but I couldn't disagree with this more. In the variety of bandit groups I have been apart of, the variety in play styles and personalities inside of these groups range massively. This opinion is what previously brought a large amount of  OOC hate for certain people in the community due to their actions IG and from word of mouth.

Everyone who doesn't RP a bandit sees them as nothing but bandits and the people who RP bandits will defend bandit RP because they don't see the perspective of a survivalist RPer and vice versa.

I have played on both sides. I began as a survivalist and have slowly switched into a more bandit focused role however I do often play as a lone survivalist character. I have seen first hand the preconceived notion from groups/individuals that bandit players are purely logged in to firefight; their belief of this coming from both IC and OOC reasons, which has resulted in these people losing out on some of the best RP that is still available in this community. I also have witnessed the awful RP provided by players who are not yet experienced enough to RP a bandit properly and can understand why people would want to avoid bandit RP. I have also seen first hand the opinion bandits plays have of survivalists, that being that they exclusively RP inside their own circle of OOC friends and refuse to venture out of that circle. Ultimately, people have opinions of other members inside certain circles of this community which has been cemented in their minds which plagues their IC behavior, intentional or not.

Replies are in red.

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Solution: all bandits must be approved and run through an audition first by people approved by the administration staff.

No approval and your robbing people, points to you.

Really want to rob people? Then step up your game and practice practice practice. Maybe apprentice under one of the approved bandits.

It's a craft, treat it as one.

Well with that logic everyone hero/bandit/survivor needs to be approved because there is badrp in all catergories...

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I've encountered nearly every single Bandit group on the servers since the time that I've been here and needless to say, they are nearly all the same OOCly.

I'm sorry but I couldn't disagree with this more. In the variety of bandit groups I have been apart of, the variety in play styles and personalities inside of these groups range massively. This opinion is what previously brought a large amount of  OOC hate for certain people in the community due to their actions IG and from word of mouth.

Everyone who doesn't RP a bandit sees them as nothing but bandits and the people who RP bandits will defend bandit RP because they don't see the perspective of a survivalist RPer and vice versa.

I have played on both sides. I began as a survivalist and have slowly switched into a more bandit focused role however I do often play as a lone survivalist character. I have seen first hand the preconceived notion from groups/individuals that bandit players are purely logged in to firefight for a variety of reasons both IC and OOC, which has resulted in these people losing out on some of the best RP that is still available in this community. I also have witnessed the awful RP provided by players who are not yet experienced enough to RP a bandit properly and can understand why people would want to avoid bandit RP. I have also seen first hand the opinion bandits plays have of survivalists, that being that they exclusively RP inside their own circle of OOC friends and refuse to venture out of that circle. Ultimately, people have opinions on other members inside certain circles of people inside of this community which has been cemented in their minds which plagues their IC behavior, intentional or not.

Replies are in red.

Thanks for the clear response, Higgi. :P

Every single person in this community will have a different experience when playing DayZRP day to day. My experiences will be different from yours and the fact that you have done different things during your time here count toward that. I haven't been part of a "real" bandit group so as I said above, I am bais and I have not been able to grasp at the appeal of it. Apparently you've been able to do both and I applaud you for it. Regardless of all that, I'm going to stand by my statement that most Bandit RPers behave the same. Most being the key word. If you feel like you and your friends aren't part of the majority than dismiss my comment and keep on trecking. :D

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Now reading through other posts I do agree that bandits are just in it for PVP and Hostile RP. They look and wait for you to say ANYTHING that offends them enough for them to initiate just to 'prove a point' that you needed taught manners. They will even poke at you and try to piss you off enough to say something offensive in your defence because heaven forbid anyone have a backbone and stand up for themselves. Apparently all survivors are suppose to just put their tail between their legs whenever the big bad bandits come into town or else they get taught a lesson. It's like a bad BDSM night. This was the case in a couple groups I was in and I personally hate it. Hostile RP is all fine and dandy but when you get on TS, log into game and go "Let's find people to fuck with" You aren't in it for the RP of others, you are in it for the RP for you. You can have nothing on you and they will rob you for pumpkin slices just for the sake of having you hostage for two minutes.

-User was warned for this post-

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Thanks for the clear response, Higgi. :P

Every single person in this community will have a different experience when playing DayZRP day to day. My experiences will be different from yours and the fact that you have done different things during your time here count toward that. I haven't been part of a "real" bandit group so as I said above, I am bais and I have not been able to grasp at the appeal of it. Apparently you've been able to do both and I applaud you for it. Regardless of all that, I'm going to stand my by statement that most Bandit RPers behave the same. Most being the key word. If you feel like you and your friends aren't part of the majority than dismiss my comment and keep on trecking. :D

No problem mate.

Possibly further down the line you may be pulled in towards bandit RP and experience difficulties that bandit players experience, some of which is deserved and some of which is not. We will and hopefully we encounter each other sometime IG to potentially prove it to you lad :).

Also, thank you for having a mature conversation where both sides can actually communicate effectively without an argument occurring, it's becoming increasingly rare these days.

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This topic has clearly fallen apart into lets all bash Bandit groups because we have no idea what we are talking about and are just super fucking salty. I can literally feel the care-bear hate flowing from my screen when I read these posts. You had a few bad experiences now you just wanna fuck over people who are good at what they provide (Fear). This isn't the apocalypse if you waltz around carefree and singing songs with birds flying around your head. You need to keep your head low, be wary of who you trust, and most importantly know when to fight and when to just surrender. The world is a cold place and only the 'strong' survive.

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