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Nikolai B.

Petty disputes

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Nikolai B.    0

Hi.

I would like to discuss the state of the community.

It appears as time passes, people become more and more certain other people are out to get them, and thus, become less friendly themselves.

More and more, people open reports just for the sakes of getting the other clan banned.

More and more there is pointless bickering and petty squabbling over rules ingame.

More and more, people engaging in petty disputes and "he said she said" bullshit, pardon my french.

The animosity between clans and persons OOC is getting to the point where it's just screwing things up for decent and uninvolved (in clan affairs) members of the community.

I guess I am just sad to see players calling other players liars and throw obscene accusations at each other.

Please stop. Please grow up. Please just talk to each other, instead of talking to an admin, about the other.

My 2 cents for peaceful reports:

How about making reports limited to 3 persons (representatives of the two parties, and a GM) and make it verbally, on TS, with summary written. This will allow disputes to be solved before they snowball into a monster. There is no reason these should be public, other than for other players to learn from, which could be also done by reading a summary.

The most sickening phenomena i ran across in-game is one party "baiting" someone into a situation where he will be reported.

I will not name any names, but this is an example of behavior that is beyond disgusting.

Another is "fishing" for infractions by the reporter in his own report.

And more...

-Frustrated Nikolai

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Solving reports through voice (on teamspeak) is a really good idea. The problem with text is that everyone just read what they want to read. That way, reports go on and on and on and on, pages long, while it could've been solved by something someone said in the first page. But, no one reads. I can't blame them, with 5 pages of text. In the time it takes to type something, 3 other guys have responded already. Often your post just gets lost in the others.

It's a snowball effect. The more heated reports are, the longer it takes for them to be solved. What's so great about voice is that it's real, it's live. If someone says something, you can't just ignore it like you can in a text thread.

Of course, there would need to be a limit as to how many people can be in a TS channel at the same time discussing the report. Also, I understand there aren't always GM's online, and the problem with TS anyway is that everyone has to be on at the same time, something that isn't necessary with thread reports. So Rubanenko's suggestion of limiting the report to 3 persons is a good idea in both TS and on the forum. One representative on each side, and 1 (or more) GM's to help solve it.

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Nikolai B.    0

I dont think tweaking the report system is the definite solution. My aim was to discuss where this behavior stems from, and how it could be halted or at least decreased.

Tweaking of the report system is just one track.

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ZeroXiz    0

Don't think it would be possible due to the amount of reports. But indeed if you go and actually talk to the parties involved verbally you most of the times get a better grip of their PoV. And it's much more calm.

But if possible I don't see why not.

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Tomeran    3

I fully agree on your description of the problem. It is highly disturbing to see two parties go and rant at each other, displaying the average mentality of a group of 5-year olds in a sandbox, crying at each other. "HE STOLE MY TRACTOR WAAH" "NO HE DID WAAH!".

We've had report threads that go beyond 5 pages, hell recently we had one that bordered on 8. That is ridicilous, and the mentality displayed is truly one of the bigger problems in the dayzrp community right now.

However im not entirely convinced by your solution. Having this debate over teamspeak can get messy due to the ease of miscommunication. Maybe that's just me, but I have a hard time hearing all the details sometimes when its talked over voice, and I find it generally easier to argue over text, to structure my arguments and think things through.

Perhaps a simple skype chat or private IRC conversation is enough? The idea of sorting it out in private is not neccecerily a bad one.

I like your idea that the number of involved people is restricted to three. One represenative from each side that also gathers witness testimonies from all witnesses from their side should be enough, rather then having a dozen people that were "vaguely" involved ranting on in the thread. And of course a GM to monitor and administer judgement.

All in all, what is mostly needed is a change in report mentality. People get WAY too upset, and we have WAY too many reports that end up as a "real" report without going through the discussion phase. If only more people could take the report to discussion first, we'd probably be able to cut the drama to a third. I'd suggest making it a requirement, but im not convinced that's the right solution in all cases.

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Tortov    0

It is true, unfortunately, that IC hatred often extends to OOC hatred particularly where bandit groups are concerned. From looking at other RPG mod forums though, disputes are common, its the nature of tense situations especially in a game like DayZ where hours of collecting gear can be gone in a matter of seconds.

I agree that less people need to post in reports. It reduces confusion for the GM solving the report, as long as the POVs given are accurate. Detailed accounts of exactly what happened rather than adding emotion to your POV, not saying "blatant rule breaking, ban him" is what is needed in my opinion.

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I dont think tweaking the report system is the definite solution. My aim was to discuss where this behavior stems from, and how it could be halted or at least decreased.

Tweaking of the report system is just one track.

Don't you think it might help, at least?

Maybe it's a problem that can't be solved. This is a really bad excuse, I know, but it's not like you can "solve" crime. I think a verbally discussed report can be solved much, much quicker than a written one. Also, one representative for each party and a strict "no posting in reports you aren't involved in" sounds good to me too. I would even go as far as banning people (on the forums AND in-game) if they post in a report they're not involved in. Only 2 people and the GMs should be allowed to post. Everyone else gets a ban.

You can't change others behaviour. If they're looking for ways to bend the rules or get other clans banned because they don't like the members OOC, then that sucks, but you can't change how they think. The only thing you can do is punish them, but I doubt that will help them change


However im not entirely convinced by your solution. Having this debate over teamspeak can get messy due to the ease of miscommunication. Maybe that's just me, but I have a hard time hearing all the details sometimes when its talked over voice, and I find it generally easier to argue over text, to structure my arguments and think things through.

Perhaps a simple skype chat or private IRC conversation is enough? The idea of sorting it out in private is not neccecerily a bad one.

Miscommunication is even bigger in text threads. You might read every word of a reply, but not everyone does. Person B keeps blaming person A for something he did page after page, while person A already defended himself on page 1.

Text chat through skype or IRC isn't a bad idea, but voice is even more "live". You can't just ignore something someone says through voice.

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especially in a game like DayZ where hours of collecting gear can be gone in a matter of seconds.

There's your problem. Right there.

People actually give a shit about "gear" instead of roleplaying. How about we not allow players to steal gear from one another?

Wait, no...then all the bandits would bitch and moan.

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Tomeran    3

You can't just ignore something someone says through voice.

No, but you can misunderstand it. Easily. Or not hear what they're saying at all. Text is more clearcut. Unless its stated in a matter that's easy to misunderstand(which rarely happens), misunderstandings are rare. It lacks tone but it has clarity. And above all, gives both parties time and space to properly build their arguments.

But that's my personal opinion on that matter. Always prefered arguing over text then voice.

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Tortov    0

especially in a game like DayZ where hours of collecting gear can be gone in a matter of seconds.

There's your problem. Right there.

People actually give a shit about "gear" instead of roleplaying. How about we not allow players to steal gear from one another?

Wait, no...then all the bandits would bitch and moan.

Yep, its the nature of the game. Without a value to gear, death wouldn't mean a thing, which is what Rocket intended, so DayZ wasn't just a deathmatch. He was helping RP to take place in a way.

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especially in a game like DayZ where hours of collecting gear can be gone in a matter of seconds.

Wait, no...then all the bandits would bitch and moan.

So you don't want bandits at all?

Not all bandits are evil, Lucia. Come on. I agree with you that caring about gear is a bad thing, but don't put everyone in one box.

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especially in a game like DayZ where hours of collecting gear can be gone in a matter of seconds.

There's your problem. Right there.

People actually give a shit about "gear" instead of roleplaying. How about we not allow players to steal gear from one another?

Wait, no...then all the bandits would bitch and moan.

Yep, its the nature of the game. Without a value to gear, death wouldn't mean a thing, which is what Rocket intended, so DayZ wasn't just a deathmatch. He was helping RP in a way.

Very much so.

What is the point of stock piling gear if there is no sense of loss? Robberies are natural for the scenario and fit in to the RP perfectly.

Day Z was designed as a rogue-like by accident.

First Rule of Day Z: Do not get attached to your gear. You will die.

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especially in a game like DayZ where hours of collecting gear can be gone in a matter of seconds.

Wait, no...then all the bandits would bitch and moan.

So you don't want bandits at all?

Not all bandits are evil, Lucia. Come on. I agree with you that caring about gear is a bad thing, but don't put everyone in one box.

No, I have zero issue with bandits. I have a problem with players stealing actual gear from other players, because that's where 90% of the competition and animosity comes from.

I would recommend something like stealing "RP items" from other players, but since most of the bandit population on the server can't (or won't) RP for crap, that won't fly.

"Durr, but it's not an object in my inventory that will help me win at DayZ, so why do I care if it gets stolen?"

That mentality....

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Tomeran    3

First Rule of Day Z: Do not get attached to your gear. You will die.

More people need to read this. Because some go on like its literly the end of the world if they loose their stuff.

Its frustrating? Yes of course it can be. But people need to learn to get over it. Badly.

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First Rule of Day Z: Do not get attached to your gear. You will die.

More people need to read this. Because some go on like its literly the end of the world if they loose their stuff.

Its frustrating? Yes of course it can be. But people need to learn to get over it. Badly.

It's not attachment to your own gear that causes the problem on this server, it's attachment to other peoples' gear. Bandits get their jollies taking shit from people, when in reality, bandits would be stealing to survive.

A bandit clan with a stockpile of military-grade rifles isn't going to steal a freaking backpack and an AK-74 off of some random guy in the woods. They wouldn't risk their lives over something that trivial, but since this is a damn game, people do it because it scores them fake fantasy points.

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Nikolai B.    0

I think any bandit group should have a red line. Someone they wouldn't rob on some basis.

For example, ZZ are sort of bandits. we are not nice to foreigners and we will take their stuff and deport them.

However, if we run into locals, we are likely to give them stuff for free and help them in any way we can.

Please don't put us in the same box as any other bandit groups who don't care who you are, just care about your gear.

Again, don';t want to name any names, but the minimalistic approach of "drop your stuff, walk away" isn't exactly what i would consider roleplay. it might be IC, but it isn't roleplay.

And every time i was robbed on this server, thats how it went down. They didn't care who I was.

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Ferretss    0

First Rule of Day Z: Do not get attached to your gear. You will die.

More people need to read this. Because some go on like its literly the end of the world if they loose their stuff.

Its frustrating? Yes of course it can be. But people need to learn to get over it. Badly.

It's not attachment to your own gear that causes the problem on this server, it's attachment to other peoples' gear. Bandits get their jollies taking shit from people, when in reality, bandits would be stealing to survive.

A bandit clan with a stockpile of military-grade rifles isn't going to steal a freaking backpack and an AK-74 off of some random guy in the woods. They wouldn't risk their lives over something that trivial, but since this is a damn game, people do it because it scores them fake fantasy points.

If your talkiing about when people say "drop your shit" unless you have good gear its mostly for their own safety. And if they steal your great weapon and pack, they are stealing to survive.

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I think any bandit group should have a red line. Someone they wouldn't rob on some basis.

For example, ZZ are sort of bandits. we are not nice to foreigners and we will take their stuff and deport them.

However, if we run into locals, we are likely to give them stuff for free and help them in any way we can.

Please don't put us in the same box as any other bandit groups who don't care who you are, just care about your gear.

Again, don';t want to name any names, but the minimalistic approach of "drop your stuff, walk away" isn't exactly what i would consider roleplay. it might be IC, but it isn't roleplay.

I know there are bandits that are exceptions to the rule, but sadly, the forum reports make it clear that it happens multiple times every day. People are trigger happy, they shoot on sight, they look for excuses to engage in firefights, etc.

Firefights should be a scheduled thing between clans if they're going to happen. Agreed upon ahead of time, with a chosen location and a variable start time (like 12:00-13:00). The agreement should be made OOC, not IC.

Banditry is a joke on this server. Bandits rob people just because. Most of these bandits are portrayed as freedom fighters, or people just trying to survive, but they're not played that way. It smacks of PvP with thinly-veiled roleplay done only because it's a technical necessity.

In real life, bandits, especially those made up of supposed military personnel, would never take a life-threatening risk over some mundane guns or equipment when they already have ample supplies. Why? Because if just one of your four-man group is killed, you're down by 25% of your fighting force.

Oh, but they will on DayZRP. Why? Because if that man dies, meh...he just respawns on the beach. No big deal. It's metagaming for characters to act in a certain way because their players know it's a game. For some situations, like adjusting RP for game flaws or limitations, it's fine, but acting in a reckless manner because you know you cannot permanently die? Solid metagaming.

I enjoy my time on the server. I really do. But the more time I spend on the forums and the more petty, bullshit reports I see, the more I start to feel like I need to move on if I wanna find a suitable roleplay environment.


If your talkiing about when people say "drop your shit" unless you have good gear its mostly for their own safety. And if they steal your great weapon and pack, they are stealing to survive.

A guy that has a truck-load of guns and gear isn't stealing inferior weapons to survive. He's stealing them because, to him, the more he steals, the more he's "winning" at DayZRP.

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Jerry    22

I feel people are missing a major part about robbery's, it gives people a thrill. It gets your heart going and that's what I love in this game. Its the progression along with the threat of dying and losing all my progress. I love the RP, I think the level of RP has increased a lot since the rule overall and the DayzRP mod being introduced.

So yeah bandits are just gonna be bandits, mostly I think they do it for the thrill. Hell I do it for the thrill.

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Livs    0

I enjoy my time on the server. I really do. But the more time I spend on the forums and the more petty, bullshit reports I see, the more I start to feel like I need to move on if I wanna find a suitable roleplay environment.

It's sad to see you feel like that, but it's hard to make a roleplaying server that fits the real hardcore roleplayers. Like Jerry just said, people play this game for the thrill. If you don't get that thrill, and have everything planned and scheduled, the game loses it's spark.

Basically if we change the server rules based on these scheduled firefights, I'm sure we'll see a MASSIVE drop in our playerbase, if not completely vanish.

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J. Hembree    0

Everybody we run into seems to bandits anymore. Even the large clans that don't need to bandit are doing it. It gets annoying sometimes when you try to RP and the jerk is trying to open your backpack instead (or just shoot you).

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I enjoy my time on the server. I really do. But the more time I spend on the forums and the more petty, bullshit reports I see, the more I start to feel like I need to move on if I wanna find a suitable roleplay environment.

It's sad to see you feel like that, but it's hard to make a roleplaying server that fits the real hardcore roleplayers. Like Jerry just said, people play this game for the thrill. If you don't get that thrill, and have everything planned and scheduled, the game loses it's spark.

Basically if we change the server rules based on these scheduled firefights, I'm sure we'll see a MASSIVE drop in our playerbase, if not completely vanish.

I have thrill! Whenever I see a car, or a person, I always get excited because I look forward to an opportunity to roleplay. "Hey, how are you? This rain is annoying, isn't it? Hey, have you guys seen any pasta? I'm sick of beans!", that sort of stuff.

But then it just turns into "Drop your pack, drop your gun, run 200m that way", and then they drive off.

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Tomeran    3

I feel people are missing a major part about robbery's, it gives people a thrill. It gets your heart going and that's what I love in this game. Its the progression along with the threat of dying and losing all my progress. I love the RP, I think the level of RP has increased a lot since the rule overall and the DayzRP mod being introduced.

So yeah bandits are just gonna be bandits, mostly I think they do it for the thrill. Hell I do it for the thrill.

I get this. People play a game for thrills and fun, otherwise it wouldnt be an entertaining experience.

But at the same time I dont really get it. Getting thrills of robbing some poor sod of their stuff? If its a fight against a large established clan willing to fight back, then I'd understand it. But robbing bambis or people with low quality gear...hell naw. Yet that's probably how most robberies are done. Quick "drop your shit, walk away" etc, even if the individual in question has nothing really worth the effort.

There are SO many damned alternatives to the example listed above, and yet this is by far the most common example. Born out of lazyness and a lacking desire to actually bother with any rp.

It does not apply to all clans fortunetly, CLF and ZZ are good examples , but the fact that I have to mention -exceptions- sort of highlights the problem.

In the end, this is a roleplaying server, or at least we're trying to make it one. That's an uphill battle, particurly when it comes to bandits, and one of the problems actually lies with the thrill.

The problem with bandit roleplay comes down to risk assesment. I've been down this road before when I tried to argue WHY people kept robbing the outpost in Cherno and Elektrozavodsk, and I sure hope I dont have to go down it again with the settlement project.

A bandit roleplaying at least somewhat realisticly works by a SURVIVOR INSTINCT. That means risk assessment. It does NOT mean thrill, unless the bandit has COMPLETLY lost their mind and have thrown survivors instinct out the window(at which point they'd probably be dead by now).

This means monitoring victims, see what they have, see if their stuff is worth it, see if they belong to a rival clan etc etc. It does not mean robbing everyone no matter the conditions for an extra makarov mag. And in the outpost example, it does NOT mean robbing a place for loot that they're giving away for free.

In the end, it does not have to be a choice between "robbing a bandit with a sense of realism" or thrills. Roleplaying out a proper bandit experience can be a proper thrill.

If people disagree and rather want massive gunfights and plenty of victims to add to their list? Well, there's the normal arma.

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Zhunk    2

I agree with Tomeran, I think that the average bandit became kind of a "Rambo". The bandits are'nt aware of the "RP" risks and doesn't relay any more on the "survivor instincts". They're playing under the thought that if they'll die, they'll re-spawn, re-gear . Which is equivalent to the Global Dayz. It loses the RP aspect, the fear that each player should feel as he would in real life. A player shouldn't robe because it gives him the thrill.

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But...

Don´t forget that good gear, helps you SURVIVING.

and that´s the main objective in DayZ.

The stealing part is a part of DayZ.

Most robberies i do, when im alone is when im newspawned.

When successfully robbing someone´s high-end gear and vehicle with a doublebarrel shotgun is... Nice :D

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