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Clare

Witch Hunt Rule? (Metagaming)

Do you think this should be a rule?  

105 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think this should be a rule?

    • Yes.
      45
    • No.
      49
    • Uncertain.
      11


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Clare    25

I was recently browsing another communities rule page that I'm apart of for Arma 3 Roleplay and I noticed a rule that 

I'm surprised isn't presented in this community. The rule falls under metagaming: 

k3bVNk3.png

This rule basically prevents/eliminates random people not involved in a specific situation to "witch hunt" and find things to get others banned/removed from the community, for obvious biased reasons. This specific rule is in effect on a lot of roleplay communities that have a decent amount of streamers and I feel as though this should really be implemented. This screenshot was taken from the A3L Life Studios website on their rulepage. 

Honestly, this is my opinion, but I've seen a few reports and such of people making reports against other people in situations they weren't involved in with the only evidence of the event happening was a VOD or YouTube video from the accused that the person reporting them went out of there way to find. I don't feel it's necessary to link any of them, but honestly this shouldn't happen. People are clearly warned to not post in reports they are not involved in, so why should people make reports with evidence that has nothing to with them with biased reasons for the soul purpose of getting people banned. 

I'm merely pointing out my opinion of the situation and am curious what others and staff think of this idea to have this implemented. 

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Rolle    2951

I don't like that. Turning a blind eye on rule breaks just because a certain someone wasn't there to witness them in game? That doesn't sound too good.

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Brad    158

I honestly do not believe it to be a big enough issue to justify any sort of changes to the rules.

If you are a streamer/youtuber and you are apart of this community, you are expected to represent dayzrp in a way that is respectful and within the community rules.

You have the right to say what you please, but people watching also have the right to make sure you uphold to the standards of this community.

It is not an overally difficult thing to do, and while I do agree the "witch hunt" scenerio is both salty and petty, I really don't think a rule regarding this is necessary.

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Clare    25

I don't like that. Turning a blind eye on rule breaks just because a certain someone wasn't there to witness them in game? That doesn't sound too good.

That could be said about people posting in reports they are not involved in and getting their opinion -snipped- out of the conversation, for making a valid point regarding the situation. If someone goes out of their way to find things for the soul purpose to get someone banned from the community, not to get them reformed/acknowledge the rule breaks but just to get them banned is not right. I've seen HUGE witch hunts happen within the community of people piling VODs and videos against 1 person for the soul purpose to get them outright banned for the absolute wrong reasons. 

Of course if someone is exhibiting strong racism or direct hate comments, hacking or cheating and such they SHOULD be reported immediately to you or other staff, but if they merely did something minute in the situation of everything and someone goes out of their way to find this and report it just because "hey, I don't like this guy" and to try to get them punished is so much BS.

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Glitch    15

It sounds like a good rule as well Rolle makes a point, I don't think people should go to someone's stream just to report them but should if the streamer did something reportable. The streamers are smart enough and should know people are watching so don't be doing anything stupid.


I don't like that. Turning a blind eye on rule breaks just because a certain someone wasn't there to witness them in game? That doesn't sound too good.

That could be said about people posting in reports they are not involved in and getting their opinion -snipped- out of the conversation, for making a valid point regarding the situation. If someone goes out of their way to find things for the soul purpose to get someone banned from the community, not to get them reformed/acknowledge the rule breaks but just to get them banned is not right. I've seen HUGE witch hunts happen within the community of people piling VODs and videos against 1 person for the soul purpose to get them outright banned for the absolute wrong reasons. 

Of course if someone is exhibiting strong racism or direct hate comments, hacking or cheating and such they SHOULD be reported immediately to you or other staff, but if they merely did something minute in the situation of everything and someone goes out of their way to find this and report it just because "hey, I don't like this guy" and to try to get them punished is so much BS.

Your points make sense. I think it's okay for people to report others videos and streams if they see them do something against the rules while casually watching but someone who deliberately TRIES to find people doing wrong isn't okay.

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Brad    158

That could be said about people posting in reports they are not involved in and getting their opinion -snipped- out of the conversation, for making a valid point regarding the situation. 

This is simply to avoid clutter and back and forth in reports, if someone has an opinion or something to say regarding a report they are more than welcome to pm a staff member with these thoughts.

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Caesar    438

I always advocated a rule like this. I feel that allowing people to view other streams for the sole purpose of causing bans will only lead to more toxicity. If people were negatively affected by a rule break it is up to them to report.

The exception is anything that by its nature isn't minor such as mass kos, hacking, duping etc. This would also not exclude the wrong party from using streams as evidence.

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Eagle    409

-Snip-

Now that you put it like that i fully agree withe this and will change my vote to yes,if its nothing other then just to get a certain person banned out off pure hate for him then it shut not stand and be closed until  the party that was there puts up a report for that case.

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Caesar    438

That being said I do get the other side. Some rules like the NLR would be royally abused if a rule like this was enforced. A rule break is a rule break. Both sides have valid arguments.

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Clare    25

-Snip-

Now that you put it like that i fully agree withe this and will change my vote to yes,if its nothing other then just to get a certain person banned out off pure hate for him then it shut not stand and be closed until  the party that was there puts up a report for that case.

Honestly in situations like that where someone has evidence against another person that they went out of their way to find via a VOD or video and posts a report about, the people who were DIRECTLY involved in the video should be the ones making the report, not someone who obviously does not understand the point of reporting someone. Reporting someone shouldn't be to get someone banned, it should be to teach the person how they went wrong and how to improve. People who do these witch hunts want nothing more than to get people outright banned from the community.

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Pussy    379

This has been an issue that has been addressed to me by members of the community before, and I'm sure it has been brought up to the rest of the staff as well.

As for my personal opinion, I don't necessarily agree with the "Witch Hunt" rule for the fact that if you are saying or doing things that directly harm the community, or other community members, then it is not something that should be glanced over. In the past there have been things caught on a stream and reported that were said for no other reason than to harm and bully other community members. As far as I'm concerned, things like this should be reported.

We are dealing with people here. Not just characters. People who should not have to be a target for harmful comments and hate directed towards them. I understand that this is a large community, and not everybody is going to be buddies with everybody, but I would at least hope that in those situations you can have enough respect for yourself, the community, and the individual to not publicly harass somebody. 

I think I can speak for the staff team when I say that we want DayZRP to be a safe place for people to come and play with their friends, enjoy the game, and have fun in the community. We don't need people feeling targeted and harassed because people may not like them, or might not agree with their point of view. If you have an issue with somebody, I strongly encourage talking to them when the issue starts, instead of letting it fester to the point where you have nowhere else to put your anger than here on the forums, or in a stream for everybody to see.

I strongly believe that if somebody is caught spreading that hate through a public engine like Twitch, it should not be allowed. Many will make the argument about the first amendment, and freedom of speech, so let me say this: You are more than welcome to your opinions. You technically are allowed to say what you want... but you must also be liable for those words. If you say something about an individual for the sole purpose of harming them, then the first amendment does not pardon you from the consequences of doing so. 

Edit: Ahhh...Now that I reread everything over, I guess my point of view really only applies for people who are found flaming or disrespecting other community members on streams. Well... I typed all this out so I'm going to leave it :P

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Jm Von Cat    154

Speaking as one whom has written reports like this, well.

When I have written them it was either a rule break on both parties sides (hence not reported) or some amazingly clever people recording themselves loot cycling. One was people talking OOC in another language.

None of these were " which hunts" they were things that I or another member of staff stumbled upon.

Though, I would say if you find a video with rule breaks in it, show it to staff and it will be handled by us from there.

Also,look at Kattica's post.

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Volke    131

I'm with Caesar... I see both sides of the debate. It's a tricky situation. In some situations, you may legitimately find evidence they've done something wrong, and that its detrimental for the community :things like KOS, Bad RP and the like. However, at the same time, some people make petty reports for NLR or NVFL in which they weren't even apart of the situation. Either result can create toxicity..I think that the best way to deal with situations like this would be to send the video directly to a staff member and they can examine the video and the situation. They can post up the report that way so there is no salt to be had. If this rule is implemented that means if I'm watching a big streamer who rule breaks but no one that is watching can report is a bit ridiculous. However, I do agree that the salt and petty reports I've seen are ridiculous when the people reporting are reporting to hopefully get the person banned/removed from the community...I still say if you find an incriminating video, send it to staff and they can take it from there.


-This-

Exactly what Von Cat has suggested is IMO the best method.

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Clare    25

I think I can speak for the staff team when I say that we want DayZRP to be a safe place for people to come and play with their friends, enjoy the game, and have fun in the community. We don't need people feeling targeted and harassed because people may not like them, or might not agree with their point of view. If you have an issue with somebody, I strongly encourage talking to them when the issue starts, instead of letting it fester to the point where you have nowhere else to put your anger than here on the forums, or in a stream for everybody to see.

If this is what the staff team as a whole respects and values in this community then I see your answer being a Yes to implementing this rule. I'm strictly saying that people who go out of their way to find evidence of people breaking the rules for their own personal gain, aka the definition of "Witch Hunting."

I'm not suggesting that ignoring all the rules is fine and you can't report streamers/youtubers with their videos, I'm saying that allowing people to do this for biased reasons as a method to get people outright banned should not be something the community should have to deal with. Being able to report people for things they personally were never apart of and honestly did not affect the community at all until it was brought up promotes a level of toxicity in the community that literally ANYONE can make a report against ANYONE, regardless if they were involved. 

I'm sure majority of us have seen reports where someone spends hours and hours of their time targeting another community member and going throught hours upon hours of VODs and videos just to pick out little small possible rulebreaks and compiling them together into something they think could get them banned. I'm not referring to people getting reported for racism, KOS, trolling, or serious offenses from their stream VOD/videos. I'm talking about the real witch hunts that happen in this community. Where someone goes out and piles a bunch of little things just to try to get enough to push a ban onto someone that they don't like. This rule would prevent witch hunting, not anything else. Everyone is entitled to reporting valid rule breaks, but these obvious targeted reports should not happen just because people don't like a certain person.

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Brad    158

If all of this has stemmed from what I am assuming it has, you do realize that the "witch hunting" has been punished before and rather severly I might add.

It comes down to respect.  If you come across a rulebreak in a stream, bring it to staffs attention, ask what you should do with the information and how to proceed.

What I am trying to say is this proposed rule is already a rule.

. "Community and Forums

[align=justify]Definition

[align=justify]DayZRP is a established and mature role playing community. As such, we require our members to behave maturely, politely and with respect towards one another. This rule covers all rude and offensive behaviour that is not allowed in our community. This rule includes but is not limited to actions like griefing, trolling, spamming, advertising, insulting others, being racist or otherwise unpleasant to fellow players. Treat other players the way you would like to be treated in a role playing environment, have fun and remember that it is only a game.

Do not flame or flame bait. Discuss matters in a polite way, but do not resort to name calling, provoking or trolling other players. Offensive jokes and memes, "banter" or otherwise acting disrespectful in the community will not be tolerated. Show other members respect and act maturely.

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Clare    25

If all of this has stemmed from what I am assuming it has, you do realize that the "witch hunting" has been punished before and rather severly I might add.

It comes down to respect.  If you come across a rulebreak in a stream, bring it to staffs attention, ask what you should do with the information and how to proceed.

What I am trying to say is this proposed rule is already a rule.

. "Community and Forums

[align=justify]Definition

[align=justify]DayZRP is a established and mature role playing community. As such, we require our members to behave maturely, politely and with respect towards one another. This rule covers all rude and offensive behaviour that is not allowed in our community. This rule includes but is not limited to actions like griefing, trolling, spamming, advertising, insulting others, being racist or otherwise unpleasant to fellow players. Treat other players the way you would like to be treated in a role playing environment, have fun and remember that it is only a game.

Do not flame or flame bait. Discuss matters in a polite way, but do not resort to name calling, provoking or trolling other players. Offensive jokes and memes, "banter" or otherwise acting disrespectful in the community will not be tolerated. Show other members respect and act maturely.

-snipped because I already mentioned this-

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Guest AsOiX   
Guest AsOiX

Instead, how about you don't break the rules while streaming or not, and you'll be fine? I don't understand. If you're breaking a rule, why in the world should you not be punished?

Obviously nit picking is wrong, and may just get yourself warning points (The Reporter)

EDIT:

"Honestly, this is my opinion, but I've seen a few reports and such of people making reports against other people in situations they weren't involved in with the only evidence of the event happening was a VOD or YouTube video from the accused that the person reporting them went out of there way to find."

I don't see how I don't understand this. If you have video of you breaking a rule, why are you not subjected to punishment. I get that some people want to just ban others, but if the others are breaking rules, why is it not legitimate?

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Clare    25

Instead, how about you don't break the rules while streaming or not, and you'll be fine? I don't understand. If you're breaking a rule, why in the world should you not be punished?

Can you please read the other posts about what exactly witch hunting means in this community. I'm not saying to ignore rule breaks and not to punish people for them.

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Guest Vittoria   
Guest Vittoria

I always advocated a rule like this. I feel that allowing people to view other streams for the sole purpose of causing bans will only lead to more toxicity. If people were negatively affected by a rule break it is up to them to report.

The exception is anything that by its nature isn't minor such as mass kos, hacking, duping etc. This would also not exclude the wrong party from using streams as evidence.

^ This.

On another note, witch hunts happen a lot. That's how some major clans got taken down in DayZRP. Also, Brad is correct with the statement that Witch Hunting has been punished before, as it can be seen as a type of harassment after so long.

Instead, how about you don't break the rules while streaming or not, and you'll be fine? I don't understand. If you're breaking a rule, why in the world should you not be punished?

Obviously nit picking is wrong, and may just get yourself warning points (The Reporter)

Not that, I think the point of the thread is that people shouldn't hunt other people looking for rulebreaks, just to get them banned.

Could be wrong though, atleast thats what I got from this thread. My opinion is all over the place, just gonna check uncertain.

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Guest AsOiX   
Guest AsOiX

I always advocated a rule like this. I feel that allowing people to view other streams for the sole purpose of causing bans will only lead to more toxicity. If people were negatively affected by a rule break it is up to them to report.

The exception is anything that by its nature isn't minor such as mass kos, hacking, duping etc. This would also not exclude the wrong party from using streams as evidence.

^ This.

On another note, witch hunts happen a lot. That's how some major clans got taken down in DayZRP. Also, Brad is correct with the statement that Witch Hunting has been punished before, as it can be seen as a type of harassment after so long.

Instead, how about you don't break the rules while streaming or not, and you'll be fine? I don't understand. If you're breaking a rule, why in the world should you not be punished?

Obviously nit picking is wrong, and may just get yourself warning points (The Reporter)

Not that, I think the point of the thread is that people shouldn't hunt other people looking for rulebreaks, just to get them banned.

Could be wrong though, atleast thats what I got from this thread. My opinion is all over the place.

Yeah, as I said, I may just be mis-understanding.

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Clare    25

Not that, I think the point of the thread is that people shouldn't hunt other people looking for rulebreaks, just to get them banned.Could be wrong though, atleast thats what I got from this thread.

That's exactly the point. It's about preventing people from being able to target members of the community in order to get them removed from the community in the form of hounding for evidence and compiling things together to make it seem out of proportion. There is a solid backing and valid reason why other RP communities have this rule in effect and I'm suggesting it be implemented here. It is worded clear as day in the screenshot I posted.

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Brad    158

Not that, I think the point of the thread is that people shouldn't hunt other people looking for rulebreaks, just to get them banned.Could be wrong though, atleast thats what I got from this thread.

That's exactly the point. It's about preventing people from being able to target members of the community in order to get them removed from the community in the form of hounding for evidence and compiling things together to make it seem out of proportion.

If it is deemed as harassment it will and has been punished.

This does not need it's own section in the rules.

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