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Weapon pat downs and containers.

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So this question is simple.  If I have a pistol, like a 1911, and I place said pistol inside of a 300 round box, does the "*Pats down for any sort of weapons* emote still detect it?  As patting down does not state that you open containers, and as the 300 round box is a very solid, metallic, cube, it doesn't make sense to feel a weapon through it.

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Guest Doug Quade   
Guest Doug Quade

So this question is simple.  If I have a pistol, like a 1911, and I place said pistol inside of a 300 round box, does the "*Pats down for any sort of weapons* emote still detect it?  As patting down does not state that you open containers, and as the 300 round box is a very solid, metallic, cube, it doesn't make sense to feel a weapon through it.

If you are patted down, it means that they are searching you and your belongings for weapons. Yes your backpack is part of what is searched.  Please avoid trying to look for loopholes.  If someone pats you down aka searches you for weapons, if you have one, then say yes you do. A player should not have to say 5 different times,  I check left pocket, I check right pocket,  back pockets,  backpack etc... , they shouldn't have to ask for each storage unit you have on your person.  Does that answer your question ? 

Can we mark as solved ?

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But, in some instances people may want to simply pat you down for weapons rather than search you, make you drop your bag, or do anything rash or hostile. Patting down can be used in an RP sense, but the thing with the 300 round box is that you can't feel any weapon inside of it. It'd open a door for a little bit more role play and even possibly a situation where patting someone down may not be hostile, but searching could be. As searching goes through containers, bags, and thoroughly checks everything.

I'm not saying that you should have to emote check every storage space, just perhaps an exemption for a weapon inside of a solid container. Enabling people to get around this currently impossible thing and maybe even give a situation where later on, when they are in a safe place to do a more thorough search, the individual has been found with a weapon. It'll put more focus on the hostage in a situation and could give him more to do when his friends come along rather than sitting there silently waiting for someone to get shot. Instead he could be planning what to do with this weapon that he has been able to conceal.

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TLake    23

Here is where I will have to disagree. If they are patting you down and your weapon is in a container then it wouldn't be found in a pat down. Realistically speaking if I gave you a pat down for weapons I wouldn't pat a ammo box and go "There must be a gun in here." and look at you accusingly. So in so far as you having to tell them about it I would say no. In fact I would strongly say NO!!!

Now as far as people go who are patting you down, if they tie you up and find you didn't tell them about it well that's another story. You see people are often times illogical so even though they gave you a pat down not a full search of your things they will think you lied to them. If you get in a situation where they are searching you for weapons its best to tell them about your hidden guns.

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Just don't go looking for loopholes in the system like Quade has stated. If they pat you down, they also search your boxes and other containers.

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TLake    23

Just don't go looking for loopholes in the system like Quade has stated. If they pat you down, they also search your boxes and other containers.

A pat down isn't a full search of the person.  A pat down is well a pat down, you don't sift through peoples items when you pat someone down.  I should know I went to a high school that had cops checking people out as they entered.  Some of us would be pulled aside for pat downs randomly.  They never looked in our bags, just patted us down for stuff we shouldn't have.  If they found something they didn't like, then they would search your bag.

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Guest   
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Just don't go looking for loopholes in the system like Quade has stated. If they pat you down, they also search your boxes and other containers.

A pat down isn't a full search of the person.  A pat down is well a pat down, you don't sift through peoples items when you pat someone down.  I should know I went to a high school that had cops checking people out as they entered.  Some of us would be pulled aside for pat downs randomly.  They never looked in our bags, just patted us down for stuff we shouldn't have.  If they found something they didn't like, then they would search your bag.

Here's a solution; do "serach" inside of "pat down" that's what I do.

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TLake    23

Just don't go looking for loopholes in the system like Quade has stated. If they pat you down, they also search your boxes and other containers.

A pat down isn't a full search of the person.  A pat down is well a pat down, you don't sift through peoples items when you pat someone down.  I should know I went to a high school that had cops checking people out as they entered.  Some of us would be pulled aside for pat downs randomly.  They never looked in our bags, just patted us down for stuff we shouldn't have.  If they found something they didn't like, then they would search your bag.

Here's a solution; do "serach" inside of "pat down" that's what I do.

This I can dig right here.  Like I said before op if you end up in a situation where they are looking for weapons just tell them you have a gun stashed.

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Janana    28

I'm not saying that you should have to emote check every storage space, just perhaps an exemption for a weapon inside of a solid container. Enabling people to get around this currently impossible thing and maybe even give a situation where later on, when they are in a safe place to do a more thorough search, the individual has been found with a weapon. It'll put more focus on the hostage in a situation and could give him more to do when his friends come along rather than sitting there silently waiting for someone to get shot. Instead he could be planning what to do with this weapon that he has been able to conceal.

Let's take a realistic look at the pat down emote for a moment. If someone is patting you down, and they remove your bag there is absolutely no way that a 300 round ammo case would be ignored in a pat down. If the box is on your person, it will be obvious to see the box on your person. You can't exactly put it in a pocket. This is of course, a RP look at it. If you want to worry about what "slots" are noticed and not then I think you should prooobably change your view on how your gear is looked at.

Realistically speaking if I gave you a pat down for weapons I wouldn't pat a ammo box and go "There must be a gun in here." and look at you accusingly.

I think it'd be logical to anyone to put a pistol in a box. It's like a little treasure chest of your most special pistol or something.

To answer the question, yes. If someone is patting you down, look at the emote as realistically as possible. If the box is in your bag, they will go through your bag (most likely) and see it. If it is on your person, as I said before, I see NO REASON why I 300 Round Ammo Case would NOT be seen on your person. You can't hide it in a RP standpoint.

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Autumn    121

But it's a 300 Round box of ammunition. That's even bigger than a pistol... And if I find an ammo-box on someone. I'm going to go through it. Besides even though a 300 round box fits inside your pants. It's bulker and more noticeable.

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Guest   
Guest

But it's a 300 Round box of ammunition. That's even bigger than a pistol... And if I find an ammo-box on someone. I'm going to go through it. Besides even though a 300 round box fits inside your pants. It's bulker and more noticeable.

"What's that bulge in your pocket there, sonny?"

"A metal box, sir."

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JDoberman    44

I would just go along with them finding your weapons. Most people are very good at vocal-roleplay, but kind of go lazy when it comes to the text-roleplay.

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   14

Like some of the others have said, it is safe to assume they would also inspect items such as an ammo box in a pat down. It's simply not something the person would ignore. As Doug Quade mentioned, you shouldn't look for loopholes in a situation such as this. It would be safer to just comply. 

With this said, I will mark this as /solved.

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Ok, I need someone to explain why they think "pat down" means "open items".

A Pat Down is an external touching/feeling on the body and bags/pockets. You do not reach into containers, pockets, backpacks, etc. You can assumes someone is NOT opening an ammo box in a pat down, purely by definition. They would feel a rigid box through a backpack. It is not a loop hole. If I patted you down I could tell that you have a wallet, but not how much cash you have in it.

If I am searched, then it makes sense that bags are opened. Containers are searched. Guns inspected. But not when just patted down.

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   14

So, basically it is for ease of RP. If someone pats you down, and they feel a large metal ammunition box they will likely be interested. It's easier to simply tell them you have weapons then saying "//well I do have a large suspicious metal box" when they pat you down. You do have weapons, they would find it. That's making the situation more cumbersome then it needs to be. In your example, if you were robbing someone and found their wallet, you wouldn't know how much was in it, but you would definitely be checking inside to see.

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Guest

Let me tell you lads and lasses a quick story! So back a time ago when you were robbing someone you would just have them strip down and search their clothing for any weapons. Now this went on for awhile till some people felt that this was in bad taste and some went as far as calling it BadRp. So at this point the new system was much more widely adopted. So due to the fact that bandits made this change when you get patted down or searched you announce everything you have on you (This is to avoid going back to bandits having to strip you naked to ensure their own safety.) So OOC that is why this is handled like this. But in a IG sense let me ask you this question. If you were robbing someone or holding them up and you pat them down and they have stuff on them, Especially something large enough to store a gun in or any type of weapon you would remove it from the person correct?

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Glitch    15

I agree earlier with the statements, pat down and full search. A pat down by google definition is searching someone for yadda yadda by passing the hands of the searcher over the clothing. Where as a full search in my eyes would be clothing plus backpack. So, if someone pats you down and your big ammo box is in your pants then you should give in but logically it should be in your backpack, so I'd say it's all about placement and what they are doing. Maybe after they say *he/she pats you down, do I find anything?* You can say //Clothing pat down or full gear search?

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Guest   
Guest

This is just adding more unneeded OOC. No person would pick the option that might leave the person with a weapon to kill them with so what is even the point of asking?

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Glitch    15

This is just adding more unneeded OOC. No person would pick the option that might leave the person with a weapon to kill them with so what is even the point of asking?

That's very true, well then I guess the standard will have to be, a pat down is a pat down of all your things otherwise I don't know.

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DerrickStorm    34

As the pat down is in my opinion a good gesture from the robbers, so you don't stand butt-naked while they search you, it would be reasonable that patting down discovers any gun on you, no matter where it is.

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Here is where I will have to disagree. If they are patting you down and your weapon is in a container then it wouldn't be found in a pat down. Realistically speaking if I gave you a pat down for weapons I wouldn't pat a ammo box and go "There must be a gun in here." and look at you accusingly. So in so far as you having to tell them about it I would say no. In fact I would strongly say NO!!!

Now as far as people go who are patting you down, if they tie you up and find you didn't tell them about it well that's another story. You see people are often times illogical so even though they gave you a pat down not a full search of your things they will think you lied to them. If you get in a situation where they are searching you for weapons its best to tell them about your hidden guns.

This is basically ruleplay disguised as 'sneaky roleplay'. It's ham fisted. The pat down is a OOC courtesy so we don't strip you.

Ok, I need someone to explain why they think "pat down" means "open items".

A Pat Down is an external touching/feeling on the body and bags/pockets. You do not reach into containers, pockets, backpacks, etc. You can assumes someone is NOT opening an ammo box in a pat down, purely by definition. They would feel a rigid box through a backpack. It is not a loop hole. If I patted you down I could tell that you have a wallet, but not how much cash you have in it.

If I am searched, then it makes sense that bags are opened. Containers are searched. Guns inspected. But not when just patted down.

It's an OOC courtesy. Sorry I'm not going to write a paragraph on every variation of weapon and method of concealing said weapons. I pat you down, I feel a large steel box that might've rattled. We both assume I've checked the box. Why? Because I'm not a fucking idiot.

But, in some instances people may want to simply pat you down for weapons rather than search you, make you drop your bag, or do anything rash or hostile. Patting down can be used in an RP sense, but the thing with the 300 round box is that you can't feel any weapon inside of it. It'd open a door for a little bit more role play and even possibly a situation where patting someone down may not be hostile, but searching could be. As searching goes through containers, bags, and thoroughly checks everything.

I'm not saying that you should have to emote check every storage space, just perhaps an exemption for a weapon inside of a solid container. Enabling people to get around this currently impossible thing and maybe even give a situation where later on, when they are in a safe place to do a more thorough search, the individual has been found with a weapon. It'll put more focus on the hostage in a situation and could give him more to do when his friends come along rather than sitting there silently waiting for someone to get shot. Instead he could be planning what to do with this weapon that he has been able to conceal.

Or you know, there's always HOSTAGE RP you can do or that new rule about HOSTAGE NEGOTIATIONS. Stop trying to play 007. Everyone with half a brain knows that ammo box isn't going to be holding cookies. If you think being a hostage just means silently waiting to get shot... well... You might need reeducation.

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Ah alright, thanks for the clarification. And I JUST had my first run in where someone did a pat down. So I am now in the camp of saying you must declare. Here is why IMHO;

A- "I pat you down, do I find a gun?"

B- "Nope."

A- "Ok, insert other RP here."

B- *bang* "And you are shot and dead."

Person 'A' feels that 'B' cheated by hiding the fact he had a gun, and if person 'B' defends that they had it in an ammo box, it seems like a BS answer and no way to prove either direction. So to make things happy and less drama-tastic, just declare all weapons despite location.

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   61

As the pat down is in my opinion a good gesture from the robbers, so you don't stand butt-naked while they search you, it would be reasonable that patting down discovers any gun on you, no matter where it is.

This as long as you don't pat them down from a distance, imo you'll have to actually stand straight next to him if you want to pat someone. You have to deal with the cards you get, RP patting is the option here.

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Guest

quite honestly, if while patting my hostage down for weapons I usually will tell them, "if you're hiding anything from me and I find it later on, I will make sure your torture be unbearable".

once I pat him down, I'll move him to a location, then cuff him. first thing I do is to look through all the things that can contain weaponry. if I found one, I'll be pissed off.

honestly I have to agree with the admins here, if I pat you down after asking you to drop your bag and vest, I really do not expect to find a hidden pistol inside a protector case inside your clothing. unless you tell me it's realistic to shove an ammo box down into your pants or shirt without be feeling it or hear the weapon hit the side of the case as you move

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   32

IMO if someone pats you for weapons you should drop every hidden weapon.

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This is why I and people I play with make people drop vests, backpacks and guns. Then we pat search you. A 300 round ammo box will be found in your pants. You cannot hide it. Maybe if we didn't make you drop your backpack you could use this 'loophole'. Other than that, hiding a weapon is pretty hard with us.

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