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Defiance

Constant Insults

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Defiance    96

I've been taking people hostage for a few months now, and because of this I often view videos or reports of other hostage situations to see how other people are doing things. I've noticed that a lot of the "bad men" out there have extremely filthy mouths. I don't think there is inherently a problem with using foul language whatsoever, and in many instances I am 100% in favor of not censoring yourself in a fictional setting. However, there are a lot of people who really don't enjoy being insulted hundreds of times over the course of a half-hour long hostage situation.

Meeting disrespect IG with more disrespect is fine, but I can't help but think that a lot of people who fill the bandit shoes forget that the person they're holding hostage probably isn't enjoying being called a dirty whore or a fucking cunt every thirty seconds. Furthermore, I'm under the impression that just screaming obscenities and belittling a person is unimaginative, (often times) uncalled for, and is the equivalent of BadRP. 

I'm not saying that this particular form of hostile/intimidating RP not be done at all, but my proposed solution is to have someone in your group show a little humanity. If you're going to have someone get in the hostages face (for seemingly no reason) and yell obscenities over and over and over again, STEP IN AND STOP THEM. A simple, " Hey! Give 'em a break!" and then have that person back off or redirect the hostilities towards your own group. 

If your idea of hostile RP is continuously cussing at someone/belittling them, then I urge you to consider your hostages enjoyment level on the other end of things. I can only be called a "fucking cocksucker" so many times before I begin reaching for the suicide button. 

Let's keep discussion civil. I know there are numerous scenarios we can all envision, but my primary question is: 

Where do we draw the line?

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Guest Vittoria   
Guest Vittoria

If they have reason to overly-roast a hostage multiple times, so be it.

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Defiance    96

If they have reason to overly-roast a hostage multiple times, so be it.

That is not what I am referring to. The first sentence of my second paragraph addresses exactly what you said.

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Guest Mak   
Guest Mak

It really depends according to me, on whether the hostage takers have had previous interactions with the hostage or not, example:

You killed my ic brother, I capture you, I call you all sorts of bad things for half an hour= understandable, you murdered a person I cared about, I hate you with all my hearth.

But if we've never met before, I capture you, and point blank start calling you a cunt ecc. ecc. For the entire time of the robbery/whatever it is, well, that doesn't make any sense does it?

It really goes down to the situation, you cannot generalise too much, it depends a lot by the hostage's attitude towards the takers aswell. I still wouldn't call it BadRP tho, even if in that particular occasion you have no reasons to insult the hostage, that's taking it a little bit too far

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Defiance    96

It really depends according to me, on whether the hostage takers have had previous interactions with the hostage or not, example:

You killed my ic brother, I capture you, I call you all sorts of bad things for half an hour= understandable, you murdered a person I cared about, I hate you with all my hearth.

But if we've never met before, I capture you, and point blank start calling you a cunt ecc. ecc. For the entire time of the robbery/whatever it is, well, that doesn't make any sense does it?

It really goes down to the situation, you cannot generalise too much, it depends a lot by the hostage's attitude towards the takers aswell. I still wouldn't call it BadRP tho, even if in that particular occasion you have no reasons to insult the hostage, that's taking it a little bit too far

If you have nothing to say other than asking for basic information and calling that person a cunt, then it's definitely badRP. I agree that there are situations where insults can and should be permitted, but I'm mostly referring to bandits whose entire shtick involves screaming obscenities and power-tripping the entire time. I don't see how that could be an enjoyable experience to anyone on the receiving end.

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Guest Vittoria   
Guest Vittoria

Then I don't really see the point in a thread. If someone is just standing there insulting you over and over for no reason, giving you no other roleplay, then report it if you think its badRP.

Thats about it.

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Willem    2

If they have reason to overly-roast a hostage multiple times, so be it.

Then I don't really see the point in a thread. If someone is just standing there insulting you over and over for no reason, giving you no other roleplay, then report it if you think its badRP.

Thats about it.

True dat.

Also if you don't like being insulted and you take this to an OOC level you might have to want to look for a different game/community, since this is a roleplay community.

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Defiance    96

Then I don't really see the point in a thread. If someone is just standing there insulting you over and over for no reason, giving you no other roleplay, then report it if you think its badRP.

Thats about it.

The point of this thread is for discussion and insight.

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Samaritan    348

I can see your point, what you're looking for is different types of hostage treatment instead of the usual insult you etc. So things like creepy hostage RP, good cop bad cop, conflicts between the hostage takers on what they should do with you etc. At least I think that's the point you're making.

I'm tired lol.

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Defiance    96

I never said I don't like being insulted. I'm complaining about excessive insults that are vulgar. I'm not saying that they have no place. I simply think that it hinders the enjoyment of the person being constantly belittled and we should consider how much we insult players in-game. There are much better forms of hostile RP than yelling obscenities. That's the point I'm trying to make and I'm confused as to why I'm being so misunderstood.

This isn't about being offended OOC, although I'm sure that's inevitable with being called a dirty whore for an extended period of time. This is about creating enjoyable role-play, and I'm trying to argue that being EXCESSIVELY hostile and insulting is not enjoyable.

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Then I don't really see the point in a thread. If someone is just standing there insulting you over and over for no reason, giving you no other roleplay, then report it if you think its badRP.

Thats about it.

The point of this thread is for discussion and insight.

Is it though? Maybe it can be but so far two points have been raised:

1) I don't like being sworn at

2) Don't swear at people

It can be offputting to introduce humanity into a hostage scenario. It fucks with the tempo, tone and pacing of a hostage situation.

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Defiance    96

Then I don't really see the point in a thread. If someone is just standing there insulting you over and over for no reason, giving you no other roleplay, then report it if you think its badRP.

Thats about it.

The point of this thread is for discussion and insight.

Is it though? Maybe it can be but so far two points have been raised:

1) I don't like being sworn at

2) Don't swear at people

It can be offputting to introduce humanity into a hostage scenario. It fucks with the tempo, tone and pacing of a hostage situation.

I am not arguing for either of those points. Please pay attention to the entirety of my rhetoric.

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MadeInsane    11

I've never been one to insult my hostages, I prefer to treat them with the respect they show me, there is more ways to be intimidating than just shouting at people and pointing guns at them, but those things work fine too :P

As for where to draw the line, that should be entirely up to the hostage taker in my opinion.

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Pussy    382

I can see where you're coming from, sitting there while your character gets nothing but insulted without much more role play can be daunting... and disheartening.

On the other hand, belittling someone and calling someone names are classic abuse tactics. Abuse tactics that are very effective so it's well within reason that a captor would use that for their hostage. Hopefully among those insults though, you get some valid, good role play.

If it feels like a bad initiation and bad role play, then you could always try to talk it over with them OOC, or even go to the extreme of putting up a report if you believe it is warranted. 

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Lue    25

Despite playing a semi-bandit character currently, I'm actually in agreement with you. Then again, my style of RP is more on the comical and light-hearted side rather than the "super real" RP that some people try to go for... Its a video game, no matter what anyone wants out of this.. and I refuse to take the game so seriously that it becomes either 1.) A job or 2.) Depressing.

I'm a fan of the Fallout vision of post apocalypse... Dark, but with humor still alive and being able to laugh... I refuse to take this game as a literal "true to life" experience no matter what anyone tries to say... With the sheer amount of bugs and goofy crap that happens ingame, who can seriously enjoy sitting there being super serious and getting upset over someone having a laugh? I've had some hostage situations that were supposed to be tense... I've had guns to my head and the hostage takers trying their damnedest to hold back their laughter while trying to be big and bad at me... Those are the moments that are enjoyable for me... When I know that OOC these people are smiling and shaking their heads and having fun rather than getting a pump over just being ruthless...

I think I know what you are referring to with the whole calling someone a whore every 2 seconds and thats what im in agreement with.. I think thats a lack of creativity.. Someone gets into their comfort zone of feeling like a big man if they can say that over and over again and do little else besides threaten in that manner.... It would provide little enjoyment for me. I wouldn't find it report worthy, but I wouldn't find it to be "good RP" by any means.. It would get extremely old after about the 50th time I heard myself being called the same thing. Luckily I haven't been in this situation yet.

Every robbery i've done that the target complied with, has been a pretty enjoyable experience for me.. I usually have a pretty deep conversation with them and get to know them and then I make a judgement call on what im going to do with them based on what they provide me.. Someone who just mopes and sits there with the "woe is me" BS usually gets left with very little.. The ones that can keep the pace and provide some humor and enjoyment usually get off free with all their stuff and maybe even an apology and a helpful tip for their future survival...

Ive had people actually join the gang after a discussion while handcuffed.. Never know what will happen.

I find the whole over the top shouting and death marching people across the map to avoid being shot at a extremely boring playstyle... Especially when you are told to shut up or you will be shot... that basically ceases every possibility for some fun.. Luckily the last time I was captured and marched, the group allowed me to speak a bit.. I was able to provide some witty remarks and make them chuckle and make the trip a bit less boring than if we were to just run with nothin being said.. I also asked to stop once and rest and "wet my whistle" as im a older man and not able to run a marathon like these young folk... They allowed a stop and gave me a moment to drink and catch my breath before carrying on... That stuff is usually only allowed by the people who really care about the RP and aren't just a bunch of teamspeak jockeys trying to get you away from any potential rescue situation...

Frankly im of the belief that DayZRP should ban the use of teamspeak once your group has met up and are traveling together... You should have to use ingame comms once you are less than 100m away from each other.. its not fair to the other party to be left in silence while you all talk in teamspeak and they magically cannot hear you because its some subsonic radio frequency or you have some FBI ear pieces or some shit? Thats BadRP to me.

One dude screaming at the hostage while all the others just talk on TS and act like little prairie dogs scoping for anyone in the distance so they can sound the red alert on that super secret channel nobody can hear but them...

If you are going to claim Teamspeak is a IC radio, then people within 5-10m of you should hear it just fine... Has anyone really used a radio in the real world? I do firefighting and use radios rather frequently and they are loud and usually squelch or produce some kind of beep (depending if its digital or analog) when you push down the PTT. In any kind of hostage situation when someone is being held up... 1.) How do they use the radio with no hands or 2.) How do the attackers not hear him speaking into it or the person on the other side coming through?

I doubt everyone has police ear pieces and crap, so I don't wanna hear that excuse.

But im totally going off topic here....

Point is; I agree with the OP that having one dude screaming obscenities and threats is pretty poor cookie cutter banditry RP... Especially when the SAME insult is used about two dozen times... Screaming insults is one thing, but the same one over and over again is another.. Maybe write up a new script on what you are gonna say/call people so you got some more content to offer next time and maybe it wont be AS boring.

There was a RPer I watched stream once months and months ago that played a pretty rough dude... I wanna say it was OGclownshoes?.. guy sounded like a pirate and swore a lot.. but he did it in a manner that wasn't just flat out annoying or repetitive... He still talked to the hostage and acted like there was a sense of urgency without forcing the dude on some death march to seclusion... He did this hostile RP right in the heart of elektro and kept looking out windows while talking to this dude tied up on the floor... It was tense for the both of them and I found it to be very authentic and good hostile RP.. There was no needed "saftey net" before he would RP with the guy... He RP'd right then and there in the moment despite the possibility of him having friend to rescue him...

I seem to see a lot of people unwilling to RP unless

A.) They have overwhelming odds

B.) They can produce a safety barrier for themselves

... You will see it all the time.. People walking through a town to scope out to see if its big groups or lone survivors.. if its lone survivors they surround the place and usually initiate a hostile situation. If its multiple groups or a big group they will say hi, possibly act pleasant.. then try to carry on and leave the area and keep searching for the loners. If they DO get someone, they will usually rush the initiation and get them restrained or disarmed and then try to relocate you before they will start the RP on a serious level... up to that point its a death march with the occasional "stfu and run".

This is just general, however... I know there's good bandits out there that do more than this, so don't take immediate offense, banditos (hell, im one too).

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Glitch    15

I didn't read everything Lue said but I agree with the lack of creativity portion. Someone the other day posted a forum about torturing hostages and the fact he doesn't feel really scared. So taking a hostage and cursing them out every few seconds isn't fun nor is it creative or scary. It's just not scary, we hear cursing in real life casually, it doesn't really feel intimidating it only feels irritating, usually when someone is sworn at the other person gets irritated and swears back. If you were sworn at while a hostage, to ACT scared surely is RP but it doesn't feel as fun or as real, it's fake. For someone to be more creative torturing someone or taking them hostage would be cool. I could be taken hostage and act scared which isn't fun for me. Now when I'm walking around alone at night afraid of running into crazies or robbers I always feel on edge and spooked. That's real fear, it's like I am playing a horror game. So yeah like Lue said some people take RP seriously and not super seriously but it's definitely more fun when the feeling is really there, like if a friend of yours was shot and killed by a bandit that makes you and your buds want to get revenge and then you can put it into the RP.

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The point of this thread is for discussion and insight.

Is it though? Maybe it can be but so far two points have been raised:

1) I don't like being sworn at

2) Don't swear at people

It can be offputting to introduce humanity into a hostage scenario. It fucks with the tempo, tone and pacing of a hostage situation.

I am not arguing for either of those points. Please pay attention to the entirety of my rhetoric.

I apologise for the frank nature of my summary but this is what you're saying. You're saying RP laden with insults and obscenities is bad RP, unenjoyable for the hostage.

I understand what you're trying to say - I just don't think it's relevant or even an issue. Yes, aspects of all RP can be improved - but you don't achieve that with community watchdog threads and witch hunts.

You don't empathize with the captor at all. There could IC reasons for such abrasive behavior. You only see it as a flaw in one's OOC ability.

This is another 'analyze a character/RP trait and see if we can classify it as badRP'*.

*See: threads on initiations, PvP and 'gear RP'. - these sorts of threads are becoming becoming awfully similar to KoS ccomplaint threads on reddit.

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Glitch    15

Is it though? Maybe it can be but so far two points have been raised:

1) I don't like being sworn at

2) Don't swear at people

It can be offputting to introduce humanity into a hostage scenario. It fucks with the tempo, tone and pacing of a hostage situation.

I am not arguing for either of those points. Please pay attention to the entirety of my rhetoric.

I apologise for the frank nature of my summary but this is what you're saying. You're saying RP laden with insults and obscenities is bad RP, unenjoyable for the hostage.

I understand what you're trying to say - I just don't think it's relevant or even an issue. Yes, aspects of all RP can be improved - but you don't achieve that with community watchdog threads and witch hunts.

You don't empathize with the captor at all. There could IC reasons for such abrasive behavior. You only see it as a flaw in one's OOC ability.

This is another 'analyze a character/RP trait and see if we can classify it as badRP'*.

*See: threads on initiations, PvP and 'gear RP'. - these sorts of threads are becoming becoming awfully similar to KoS ccomplaint threads on reddit.

You are right about the character trait part but he's bringing up the point of people constantly insulting others who don't enjoy it making it bad or not-so-good RP. If the hostage isn't enjoying it in the sense like (oh great I'm being called this and that every five seconds by a crazy who isn't even interrogating me or anything.) Now I could see where this could come into play if someone deserves it yes you are very right about that, or if you are doing while torturing someone but for no apparent reason other than to try to "scare" people, it's not creative, it's boring, annoying and maybe offense to some people, we all may be in character but we're still people with different views and opinions so I think it'd be quite good for people to not curse out hostages every five seconds unless with good reason. Otherwise it's just irritating and not very creative.

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Rick    19

From my experiences, just shouting random stuff at a hostage is boring. Having them sit there and take it provides no back and forth RP.

If that's some people's thing, then so be it. I wouldn't really want to punish somebody for it, however it doesn't promote the best RP given the situation. Not like you need to insult them every 10 seconds to get your point across.

That being said, I don't think this is a large issue, as it doesn't happen for a majority of robberies from my perspective.

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TLake    23

I don't know I naturally have a foul mouth...its in my aggressive nature. I'm a really hard core bro dude who gives no fucks. jk I'm a troll.

Anyway I also think that in most situations a foul mouth gets you nothing. It doesn't do anything for the rp, if you're supposed to be an intelligent vindictive person then why are you cursing as if your IQ could be counted on a single hand. I find that like real life the more someone spews foul language the less respect you will receive and the dumber you look as a person. This coming from a guy who uses 'fuck' to accent his sentences btw I play competitive games with my best friends ones a marine the other is a straight up asshole.

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   20

-snip-

You get it. I love watching OGClownshoe and you are refering to when he was Anthony Agonist (Antagonst, clever eh?) He does some all around great RP whether he is Ant or Percy.

-snip-

You dont get it.

If you think that REDefiant is just upset about being cursed at than you've never ran into him IC. Seymour is a rude motherfucker, but he does it in a way that is interesting and fun for everyone involved.

The point is to offer good RP. If it is what you want to do then curse and berate and crush your hostage's morale, but do it in a way that is fun for everyone.

That is all.

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Defiance    96

From my experiences, just shouting random stuff at a hostage is boring. Having them sit there and take it provides no back and forth RP.

If that's some people's thing, then so be it. I wouldn't really want to punish somebody for it, however it doesn't promote the best RP given the situation. Not like you need to insult them every 10 seconds to get your point across.

That being said, I don't think this is a large issue, as it doesn't happen for a majority of robberies from my perspective.

I agree with you that it's not a large issue. I'm mostly bringing this up because I legitimately feel bad for the people who are thrown into situations where they are continuously treated like dirt for no reason. I think there is a difference between immersive and intense hostile role-play, and just having someone scream at you. This difference is what I'm trying to emphasize. I shouldn't be randomly robbed by some guys I've never encountered before, and then belittled incessantly despite never provoking them in the first place. 

Maybe I'm too sensitive to this stuff. I have a difficult time empathizing with people who really get their rocks off IC by being extremely mean assholes no matter what. There are very hostile members of the Jackals, and yet many of us will step in and calm other members down if they seem to be threatening someone's life or being excessively flippant. There's a beauty to losing control of a character and having to reel them back in. I'll reiterate that I don't think there is no place for belittlement or being an in-game asshole, just that I think it ought to be justified and kept in check.


The point is to offer good RP. If it is what you want to do then curse and berate and crush your hostage's morale, but do it in a way that is fun for everyone.

That is all.

Exactly.

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Zero    465

What's ridiculous is when someone is taken hostage and they then ask the hostage a question and they bark back with "Why are you talking over me [insert swear], [insert swear], [insert swear]. And only repeat this over and over, it makes me think that they are mentally impaired.

With the apocalypse and all, I would have expected the hot heads to have mostly died off, because in all honesty, if I had survived this long, and someone kept giving me an attitude I would probably just sigh as they kept talking, raise my revolver, and blast them.

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-snip-

You dont get it.

If you think that REDefiant is just upset about being cursed at than you've never ran into him IC. Seymour is a rude motherfucker, but he does it in a way that is interesting and fun for everyone involved.

The point is to offer good RP. If it is what you want to do then curse and berate and crush your hostage's morale, but do it in a way that is fun for everyone.

That is all.

The point is to offer counter arguments to a point raised in a discussion. If all you want to do is ignore or refuse to listen to anybody who presents an opposing view, do it in a way that involves multiple points of view. Maybe raise your own counter arguments.

All you said was that Redefiant wasn't upset.

That is all.

If it's 10 people saying and reaffirming the same idea, it's not a discussion - it's a circlejerk.

My point about these watchdog threads being a cop out in comparison to tutorial threads and RP masterclasses still stands.

I'm just playing devil's advocate.

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