Jump to content
Server time: 2017-10-22, 23:06
Safe Zone: CLOSING SOON

Sign in to follow this  
TheGlassSpider

Missing Role In Staff Lineup

Recommended Posts

Given the discussions happening here and here  I propose a new staff role that I think might address some of Hex’s and Lue's comments.

This role would be a sort of community liaison with the goal of increasing Good RP.  This role would not include the ability or necessity to send warning points, provide verdicts on reports, or issue bans.

Instead, this staff role would focus on using community feedback (via teamspeak and the forums) to officially clarify grey areas in the rules, to mediate discussions between parties involved in difficult reports, and to encourage the creation and distribution of forum content that focuses on defining the community standards for Good RP. These folks could work between staff and community members in danger of being banned – to make a change prior to permanent removal. Perhaps they’d even team up with RP Masterclass and take some of the RP development/demonstration/teaching IG.

I think it is a valid suggestion that these members are elected by the community; however, I do think they should have to meet certain qualitative requirements in order to run for the position.

As always, I am open to feedback and criticism regarding the idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest   
Guest

So in short would this be a position with its main focus on providing feedback?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So in short would this be a position with its main focus on providing feedback?

You could put it that way Carib, also I think there should be a focus on developing standards for Good RP - we can ban for BadRP, but it seems a subjective and unclearly defined thing. I'd rather see us striving, demonstrating, defining, and teaching Good RP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Doug Quade   
Guest Doug Quade

I don't really see the need for something like this.  Rp is different for everyone, and everyone has different ways , and standards.  To enforce a standard level of RP is not feasible and totally unrealistic.  Good RP is in the eye of the beholder, and what is good to one, could be total crap to another. We have a variety of RP-ers here, some who think they are God's gift to RP , and so on down the line.  Again , this leaves it wide open to opinion, and there is no way to set a bar for RP. Nice idea but would never work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-Community-Opinion-Community-Voice-Long-discussion

I'll just leave this here.

Well done Alyssa as always a good suggestion at heart :)

Thank you Heroz! And thank you for the link - I REALLY like some of the suggestions here. 

Particularly that you can bring comments or feedback anonymously and provide them to staff. I'm not certain it's necessary to send them directly to Rolle - unless they're about staff members. But I love the spirit of the suggestion and can see some middle ground or merger between the idea I've suggested and this one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Heroz_Nick    21

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-Community-Opinion-Community-Voice-Long-discussion

I'll just leave this here.

Well done Alyssa as always a good suggestion at heart :)

Thank you Heroz! And thank you for the link - I REALLY like some of the suggestions here. 

Particularly that you can bring comments or feedback anonymously and provide them to staff. I'm not certain it's necessary to send them directly to Rolle - unless they're about staff members. But I love the spirit of the suggestion and can see some middle ground or merger between the idea I've suggested and this one.

Welcome, anytime. ahh you know me, always one to speak my mind no matter the result :P never such a thing as a "bad suggestion" as long as it has a purpose. let the discussion begin ^_^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't really see the need for something like this.  Rp is different for everyone, and everyone has different ways , and standards.  To enforce a standard level of RP is not feasible and totally unrealistic.  Good RP is in the eye of the beholder, and what is good to one, could be total crap to another. We have a variety of RP-ers here, some who think they are God's gift to RP , and so on down the line.  Again , this leaves it wide open to opinion, and there is no way to set a bar for RP. Nice idea but would never work.

Then how do we ever legitimately ban for BadRP? If the standards for Good RP are subjective, then so are the ones for Bad RP, and how is anyone supposed to get better at it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Volke    131

I don't really see the need for something like this.  Rp is different for everyone, and everyone has different ways , and standards.  To enforce a standard level of RP is not feasible and totally unrealistic.  Good RP is in the eye of the beholder, and what is good to one, could be total crap to another. We have a variety of RP-ers here, some who think they are God's gift to RP , and so on down the line.  Again , this leaves it wide open to opinion, and there is no way to set a bar for RP. Nice idea but would never work.

Regarding this...well..I've always though banning for bad rp..doesn't really make sense. How is one supposed to improve their roleplay , all they get from a bad rp report is : don't do this - it gets you in trouble. There is no where they can go to find out what is good rp nor is their a staff rank that does this. If someone is close to high level warnings of bad rp, why not try to correct & rehabilitate their rp rather then let them continue down the path of permaban?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Doug Quade   
Guest Doug Quade

I don't really see the need for something like this.  Rp is different for everyone, and everyone has different ways , and standards.  To enforce a standard level of RP is not feasible and totally unrealistic.  Good RP is in the eye of the beholder, and what is good to one, could be total crap to another. We have a variety of RP-ers here, some who think they are God's gift to RP , and so on down the line.  Again , this leaves it wide open to opinion, and there is no way to set a bar for RP. Nice idea but would never work.

Then how do we ever legitimately ban for BadRP? If the standards for Good RP are subjective, then so are the ones for Bad RP, and how is anyone supposed to get better at it?

Per our rules page down below....  It is easier to set a bar for BadRp because it is far more obvious. For example, avoiding/ignoring attempts at roleplay is obvious as BadRp as opposed to,  eh well I don't feel their hostile RP they provided was up to my  standards or expectations therefore I am reporting them for BadRp. Do you see the difference ? 

What NOT to do

  • Focus on out of character gains to the detriment of RP.
  • Attack another person or group without a valid in character reason.
  • Ignore attempts to role-play.
  • Act in a way that indicates no value for your characters survival.
  • Force another person or group to attack you to gain revenge rights.
  • Speak OOC in voice or don't using the "//" prefix to indicate OOC text communication

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Samaritan    348

Fox was running classes to teach good RP and to have Q & A's in TS, I believe they are still running.

In regards to the position I think most of the staff do a liaison role anyway. A staff/community liaison if created would need to be a particular type of person. They would need to be and expert on the rules, be able to demonstrate great RP and to have knowledge of conflict resolution/restorative meetings. I think it might be a difficult position to fill. Many of the staff are better in some of those areas than others but collectively they make it work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Autumn    127

Personally I could go half and half on this. While a good suggestion I sadly don't see this going very far or becoming a thing. Sorry I gotta be the pessimist here. 

I do however believe that 'bad' (very loose term here) rpers should attend a workshop prior to their reinstatement into the community. 

However adding a whole new rank to the staff... I fail to see the need as of currently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Volke    131

I don't really see the need for something like this.  Rp is different for everyone, and everyone has different ways , and standards.  To enforce a standard level of RP is not feasible and totally unrealistic.  Good RP is in the eye of the beholder, and what is good to one, could be total crap to another. We have a variety of RP-ers here, some who think they are God's gift to RP , and so on down the line.  Again , this leaves it wide open to opinion, and there is no way to set a bar for RP. Nice idea but would never work.

Then how do we ever legitimately ban for BadRP? If the standards for Good RP are subjective, then so are the ones for Bad RP, and how is anyone supposed to get better at it?

Per our rules page down below....  It is easier to set a bar for BadRp because it is far more obvious. For example, avoiding/ignoring attempts at roleplay is obvious as BadRp as opposed to,  eh well I don't feel their hostile RP they provided was up to my  standards or expectations therefore I am reporting them for BadRp. Do you see the difference ? 

What NOT to do

  • Focus on out of character gains to the detriment of RP.
  • Attack another person or group without a valid in character reason.
  • Ignore attempts to role-play.
  • Act in a way that indicates no value for your characters survival.
  • Force another person or group to attack you to gain revenge rights.
  • Speak OOC in voice or don't using the "//" prefix to indicate OOC text communication

I just find it silly that we have all these staff ranks, and yet not one is focused towards roleplay and creating liaisons within the gaming world & the community. How does one improve on their roleplay then? I don't see how a punishment without remediation helps anyone improve.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Toska    0

*cough* http://www.dayzrp.com/t-RP-Masterclass-Learn-And-Improve-Roleplay *cough*

I think I had a discussion with Volke about this exact subject.

I don't know, really. So far the project hasn't really been used. I did get some PMs from interested people, but when it comes to actual TS meetings or IC sessions I am still waiting on answers. 

I like the idea of this. Essentially the lack of such a position was my reason to set up the RP Masterclass.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Volke    131

*cough* http://www.dayzrp.com/t-RP-Masterclass-Learn-And-Improve-Roleplay *cough*

I think I had a discussion with Volke about this exact subject.

I don't know, really. So far the project hasn't really been used. I did get some PMs from interested people, but when it comes to actual TS meetings or IC sessions I am still waiting on answers. 

I like the idea of this. Essentially the lack of such a position was my reason to set up the RP Masterclass.

Yes Fox, I talked to you exactly about this. This *needs to be staff moderated, there needs to be a staff rank focused on the roleplay and the standard of roleplay* we have people who moderate the forums, the game world, but no one teaches? There is no teacher, who teaches what is good or bad rp. I think for something like rp masterclass, it is necessary to have the "invisible bubble of staff" that takes this as their duty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*cough* http://www.dayzrp.com/t-RP-Masterclass-Learn-And-Improve-Roleplay *cough*

I think I had a discussion with Volke about this exact subject.

I don't know, really. So far the project hasn't really been used. I did get some PMs from interested people, but when it comes to actual TS meetings or IC sessions I am still waiting on answers. 

I like the idea of this. Essentially the lack of such a position was my reason to set up the RP Masterclass.

Fox - I want to see something like your idea becoming officially backed by staff. Some of the ideas presented there inspired the way Alcyone works, because I also see the concept as VERY IMPORTANT. 

Getting lore into the world, demonstrating all kinds of different RP - I'd love to see a viable translation of some of these ideas IN THE GAME and provided officially to people at risk of being removed. Perhaps that's a better direction for the role I'm suggesting. 

I just know that I see a gap, and I think that gap needs to be focused on good RP development within the community.


Fox was running classes to teach good RP and to have Q & A's in TS, I believe they are still running.

In regards to the position I think most of the staff do a liaison role anyway. A staff/community liaison if created would need to be a particular type of person. They would need to be and expert on the rules, be able to demonstrate great RP and to have knowledge of conflict resolution/restorative meetings. I think it might be a difficult position to fill. Many of the staff are better in some of those areas than others but collectively they make it work.

I can totally see your perspective here - and I'll be the first to admit that never having been staff, I'm not entirely sure how the behind-the-scenes works. 

But one of the most important aspects of the proposed role to me is that it is NOT a role with the power to punish or verdict. Clearly their input would be included in such decisions - but THAT power dynamic would be removed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Buddy    1068

[align=justify]I don't intend for this to come off sounding negative in any way, but it would be nice to have more of a solid bridge connecting between staff and community then there currently is. Each step on the staff ladder has their own specific given duties, and obviously the higher ups can perform all tasks of the ranks below them; and although I do not doubt for a second that staff is capable of mediating situations such as those described in Alyssa's post, I feel it would be a nice weight off their shoulders if there was a position specifically designed for the job in question. If not a position then some semblance of a mediation TS lobby up in the staff section for these situations to have a belonging place where current staff can chime in and resolve whatever the matter at hand  may be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Roman    0

I just find it silly that we have all these staff ranks, and yet not one is focused towards roleplay and creating liaisons within the gaming world & the community.  How does one improve on their roleplay then? I don't see how a punishment without remediation helps anyone improve.

We have multiple threads about how to improve on someones RP, there's hundreds of videos to watch to learn, we have also a lot of people that are great RPers that play the game whom they get to meet.

Not a lot of people are great at RP when they are new, but they learn from observing others, if they get banned for badRP it's usually because they didn't really RP or acted in a really unrealistic way.

If they have the will to get better after that they have a lot of tools at hand.

During my firsts days on RP I got banned for BadRP and that gave me motivation to improve, I would like to think that I'm a somewhat decent RPer now a days, at least I don't get banned for BadRP anymore, people should take it upon their self's to improve.

I don't see a need for another staff rank, but it's never wrong to come with suggestions since they can't hurt, this is my opinion, there might be other staff that have a different one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hatch    0

Although this is a good suggestion it will fizzle out just like the media team. The reason for this is because anyone in the community can bring up discussions and help people decide on a set topic, that's what the suggestion/discussion sections are for. Anyone can bring up a discussion much like anyone can make some graphics, there is no need for some people to have a label while doing that.

My thoughts on the RP: Lets try and not create a set stance on "how to RP", everyone does it differently and difference equals uniqueness. If we begin to create a mould for imagination then it will all soon become very bland.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Toska    0

Fox - I want to see something like your idea becoming officially backed by staff. Some of the ideas presented there inspired the way Alcyone works, because I also see the concept as VERY IMPORTANT. 

Getting lore into the world, demonstrating all kinds of different RP - I'd love to see a viable translation of some of these ideas IN THE GAME and provided officially to people at risk of being removed. Perhaps that's a better direction for the role I'm suggesting. 

I just know that I see a gap, and I think that gap needs to be focused on good RP development within the community.

IF staff decides to put up something like this I would be more than happy - even though and especially - because it makes my project obsolete.

Something I already told Volke and I will say it here again is just like Doug said: You cannot teach "Good RP". The only thing you can do is show people decent/standard/"good" role play. You can introduce people to role play, yes that is possible. You can teach them the universal essentials, but then again these are your mere interpretations of how things should be done. This is why I dislike the fact of forcing people into attending such a session. You need to have some form of motivation and dedication to this otherwise it will be useless and forgotten.

If people would actually use the RP Masterclass project I would suggest things for them, answer questions they have and of course do a in-game session if they want to.

Several staff members have already offered their help with the project. However, most of the time I did decline their offer due to the fact that staff has other things to take care of. As you have said, GlassSpider, forum moderation and/or taking care of rulebreaks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fox - I want to see something like your idea becoming officially backed by staff. Some of the ideas presented there inspired the way Alcyone works, because I also see the concept as VERY IMPORTANT. 

Getting lore into the world, demonstrating all kinds of different RP - I'd love to see a viable translation of some of these ideas IN THE GAME and provided officially to people at risk of being removed. Perhaps that's a better direction for the role I'm suggesting. 

I just know that I see a gap, and I think that gap needs to be focused on good RP development within the community.

IF staff decides to put up something like this I would be more than happy - even though and especially - because it makes my project obsolete.

Something I already told Volke and I will say it here again is just like Doug said: You cannot teach "Good RP". The only thing you can do is show people decent/standard/"good" role play. You can introduce people to role play, yes that is possible. You can teach them the universal essentials, but then again these are your mere interpretations of how things should be done. This is why I dislike the fact of forcing people into attending such a session. You need to have some form of motivation and dedication to this otherwise it will be useless and forgotten.

If people would actually use the RP Masterclass project I would suggest things for them, answer questions they have and of course do a in-game session if they want to.

Several staff members have already offered their help with the project. However, most of the time I did decline their offer due to the fact that staff has other things to take care of. As you have said, GlassSpider, forum moderation and/or taking care of rulebreaks.

I ABSOLUTELY agree that this wouldn't be a teaching position - Good RP is CERTAINLY demonstrated, and this is why I would like to see some of these ideas officially backed by staff and translated IN GAME. 

I understand your position on forcing, but - which is better: to be permanently removed, or to have some (probably) fun sessions where they see/try out the basics?

This is the only game I've ever played without a tutorial ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Volke    131

I just find it silly that we have all these staff ranks, and yet not one is focused towards roleplay and creating liaisons within the gaming world & the community.  How does one improve on their roleplay then? I don't see how a punishment without remediation helps anyone improve.

We have multiple threads about how to improve on someones RP, there's hundreds of videos to watch to learn, we have also a lot of people that are great RPers that play the game whom they get to meet.

Not a lot of people are great at RP when they are new, but they learn from observing others, if they get banned for badRP it's usually because they didn't really RP or acted in a really unrealistic way.

If they have the will to get better after that they have a lot of tools at hand.

During my firsts days on RP I got banned for BadRP and that gave me motivation to improve, I would like to think that I'm a somewhat decent RPer now a days, at least I don't get banned for BadRP anymore, people should take it upon their self's to improve.

I don't see a need for another staff rank, but it's never wrong to come with suggestions since they can't hurt, this is my opinion, there might be other staff that have a different one.

Well I get there are resources to teach people how to improve their rp, videos , and "great rpers". However , I Feel the staff of DayZRP should be making the standard or teach Good RP. There is community input however I truly feel there is a staff need to be someone teaching, a rank designed just for teaching roleplay to people.

While I understand you improved, not everyone is like that, it's easy to link videos and guides...but I feel that actually talking with someone about your character, what your going for, how to improve it, a staff member who has the knowledge of GM rules, but has the ability to assist them in such. Its easy to point at a guide or video and say do this: however, we want to flourish roleplay, people to come up with original characters, not just pale imitations for inspiration. Not to say that staff members aren't good roleplayers, it isn't a requirement to join the staff team, nor is staff responsible for improving the roleplay of members, So I feel like Alyssa said, someone who is elected by the community to determine what we consider "good rp" and for this person(s) to demonstrate it, and assist those who wish to improve it. Another comment made which I also wish to address:

I do however believe that 'bad' (very loose term here) rpers should attend a workshop prior to their reinstatement into the community.

I agree that, this should be something enforced. Before someone is close to getting perma'd have them set through a workshop hosted weekly or monthly, talk to the person and find out the reason for their attitude, their constant getting in reports, have a more humanistic view through the community and staff rather then the cold hard facts of reports and ban appeals. Focus on rehabilitation of Roleplay rather then so easily jump to removal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just find it silly that we have all these staff ranks, and yet not one is focused towards roleplay and creating liaisons within the gaming world & the community.  How does one improve on their roleplay then? I don't see how a punishment without remediation helps anyone improve.

We have multiple threads about how to improve on someones RP, there's hundreds of videos to watch to learn, we have also a lot of people that are great RPers that play the game whom they get to meet.

Not a lot of people are great at RP when they are new, but they learn from observing others, if they get banned for badRP it's usually because they didn't really RP or acted in a really unrealistic way.

If they have the will to get better after that they have a lot of tools at hand.

During my firsts days on RP I got banned for BadRP and that gave me motivation to improve, I would like to think that I'm a somewhat decent RPer now a days, at least I don't get banned for BadRP anymore, people should take it upon their self's to improve.

I don't see a need for another staff rank, but it's never wrong to come with suggestions since they can't hurt, this is my opinion, there might be other staff that have a different one.

I agree, there are a lot of threads - and to some extent, that may be part of the issue. There are a lot of voices to be heard and sift through - heck, to even find. The forums can be a maze of threads lost to time, and that it might be a bad idea to necro. 

I'm really not asking for some impossible bar of Good RP, or a creativity-limiting template of how you have to play: I merely think there IS a need for a role about constructive criticism, mediation between players with different playstyles - and a space to do these things WITHOUT verdicts, bans, and warning points being in the way of improving the process - particularly for those who are having issues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Doug Quade   
Guest Doug Quade

So I was thinking about this on my lunch break at work (yes sad I know) and here is what I thought might help. 

Would it help to make a specific section of the Forums dedicated to RP and Tips and tricks ?  I know we have the Guides and Tutorials section, but perhaps a sub section within there for all things directly related to RP ?  Guides and Tutorials is a bit cluttered and confusing. If we had it better organized it might help.  We can't enforce having new players going there though, but us as Staff and the community can help guide the new players there.  

My thought is to have Community Helpers get very active in Introductions and Farewells section, where we can direct new members to a specific area of the forums for tips and tricks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Defiance    96

I just find it silly that we have all these staff ranks, and yet not one is focused towards roleplay and creating liaisons within the gaming world & the community.  How does one improve on their roleplay then? I don't see how a punishment without remediation helps anyone improve.

We have multiple threads about how to improve on someones RP, there's hundreds of videos to watch to learn, we have also a lot of people that are great RPers that play the game whom they get to meet.

Not a lot of people are great at RP when they are new, but they learn from observing others, if they get banned for badRP it's usually because they didn't really RP or acted in a really unrealistic way.

If they have the will to get better after that they have a lot of tools at hand.

During my firsts days on RP I got banned for BadRP and that gave me motivation to improve, I would like to think that I'm a somewhat decent RPer now a days, at least I don't get banned for BadRP anymore, people should take it upon their self's to improve.

I don't see a need for another staff rank, but it's never wrong to come with suggestions since they can't hurt, this is my opinion, there might be other staff that have a different one.

I agree, there are a lot of threads - and to some extent, that may be part of the issue. There are a lot of voices to be heard and sift through - heck, to even find. The forums can be a maze of threads lost to time, and that it might be a bad idea to necro. 

I'm really not asking for some impossible bar of Good RP, or a creativity-limiting template of how you have to play: I merely think there IS a need for a role about constructive criticism, mediation between players with different playstyles - and a space to do these things WITHOUT verdicts, bans, and warning points being in the way of improving the process - particularly for those who are having issues.

Alyssa, I could not agree more. When people aren't cutting it RP-wise, my first inclination is to contact them outside of the game and see if they have any questions. Even from someone who has been RPing for over ten years, I still felt that DayZRP was intimidating at first. I personally would love to contribute to a section dedicated to educating people on how to execute certain styles of RP, as well as how to deal with hostilities and things of that nature.

I would also LOVE to see a thread dedicated to helping people with their accents. It would be really fun to join a TS channel with someone who specifically is there to help facilitate different accents, whether they be Irish, Chernarussian, or whatever, and just have a good time practicing with each other. I am in favor of Doug Quade's suggestion, although wouldn't the Guides section facilitate that need? I get what you're saying and support it. I think there are a lot of good role-players that would love to teach others, and I think we should encourage this mentality as much as possible. I used to be a gamemaster for MafiaRPG, a short-story based mafia role-playing game. During that time, I even went so far as to teach English to a lot of people. Noticing their improvement really made me happy, and I know a lot of people within that community were dedicated to helping others become better role-players and better writers. This community could definitely benefit from this.

100% in favor of this -- As I am with most of TheGlassSpider's suggestions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×