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TheGlassSpider

Meaningless Mass Initiations = BadRP/GearRP?

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Here's a hypothetical situation we've all seen before: 

A large group of fully geared, heavily armed men have an IC grudge with a single person in a heavy-traffic area. 

Said men initiate on the entire compound of people they don't know IG or have minimal contact with, save one. 

Then take every piece of ammo, and most of the weapons, in the compound - despite the fact that they're bristling with weapons themselves. 

Is this NOT BadRP or Gear RP, and should people be reporting it when they see it?

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Davos    5

When they initiate on a compound, GM is a common one, they are simply throwing their weight around. When they do this, they should be providing good RP to the people they initiated on, as with all bandit RP. As for taking of ammo and weapons, they are simply disarming the crowd so that they cannon seek revenge on their group, so that their group can survive.

It would only be GearRP if they held up the group for someones gear specifically, not because they have a grudge against them.

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Sasha    0

No, not really. The only thing that matters is whether or not the roleplay during the situation is of good quality or not.

Here's the thing, for as much as people complain about the instigators "gearRP" it's just as bad when you as the victim complain about the gear all the time.

If someone initiates on the compound for a specific man, that is the choice of the initiatiors, perhaps the man they found there is someone they've looked for for a time. Quite frankly. Whether they choose to disarm the hostages or not is their choice. If they keep or throw away the ammo or the weapons is their choice as well. Doesn't matter.

Frankly, victims are more salty about gear than instigators are longing for it in almost all cases that I've been a part of during my almost 2,5 years with this community.

If the RP during the robbery is bad, report for badRP. That is the only thing that matters. If you provide good RP, then the intentions behind the robbery isn't relevant at all. Whether you're looking to interrogate them, or steal from them.

Gear should never take precedence over RP. Regardless of which side of muzzle you're on.

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Bryce_    1

If they don't have a valid reason to initiate on an entire compound/area and do it mostly for gear, I would say yes, report it for bad RP.

If there's someone in there that they've been hunting for a while (with valid reason of course) and initiate on the compound/area so they can capture said person, then no, it is not bad RP as long as they roleplay with all the hostages and not just that one person

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Guest Phat J   
Guest Phat J

If they don't have a valid reason to initiate on an entire compound/area and do it mostly for gear, I would say yes, report it for bad RP.

If there's someone in there that they've been hunting for a while (with valid reason of course) and initiate on the compound/area so they can capture said person, then no, it is not bad RP as long as they roleplay with all the hostages and not just that one person

Robbing for gear isn't bad RP? As long as you roleplay with the hostages after the robbery its perfectly fine.

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Whip    0

Hi GlassSpider,

It depends solely on the situation and how it is done. When you are robbed you are generally stripped of all weapons and ammo so ask to not attack the initiators afterward. It is hard to give a concise Yes or no without a direct situation so without a direct answer to this question so i vote to move this to discussion.

I hope this somewhat answers your question

-Whip

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Fafnir    38

/Moved to Discussion since I dont see a straight forward question

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Rick    19

GearRP isn't necessarily rule breaking. You can rob somebody for gear or weapons if you want to, it's a legitimate reason. Now, if you just strip them and run without RP, it's ofc bad RP. If you rob them for gear, and then RP with them for a while, it's fine.

It all depends on how they RP the situation if it's reportable or not.

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I know the difference between disarming and theft. In the example given, the initiators take and keep all the ammo, and most of the weapons - again, despite the fact that they are bristling with weapons and ammo themselves.

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Bryce_    1

If they don't have a valid reason to initiate on an entire compound/area and do it mostly for gear, I would say yes, report it for bad RP.

If there's someone in there that they've been hunting for a while (with valid reason of course) and initiate on the compound/area so they can capture said person, then no, it is not bad RP as long as they roleplay with all the hostages and not just that one person

Robbing for gear isn't bad RP? As long as you roleplay with the hostages after the robbery its perfectly fine.

It's only bad RP if gear is taking priority over roleplay.

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I find it difficult to believe that people who have survived in the apocalypse this long would be stupid enough, in reality, to risk hostilities on so many people - who also have managed to survive.

Without some compelling reason, I sure am not going to risk getting shot by folks whose skills I don't know just to get at one guy. And identify myself to a bunch of strangers AND give them a reason to chase me down.

It seems far more believable to me that bandits would track the single person they're interested in and take that person down alone or in a small group.

I am of the opinion that a character's motivation to perform any action, to take any risk (especially in the apocalypse) is absolutely inherent in GoodRP. In a world where death is literally walking around to get you - are you actually going to be concerned with taking GM because "I'm bored"?

It just seems to reflect a really limited view of character motivation and activity, to me. There are so many other RP activities and opportunities - particularly in the realm of hostilities - it smacks of emptiness of lack of creativity. And gear-focused RP. Which is - of course - why I ask about BadRP.

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McCoy III    7

i'd say its only gearRP if they are robbing for specific gear when they are clearly geared themselves. And it would only be badRP if the initiation and banditry was just that, bad. If they deliver some good hostile RP in return and its not just a 2 minute thing, than no reason for badRP IMO.

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Guest Doug Quade   
Guest Doug Quade

Why don't they come in and provide aggressive RP and say, hey , we are looking for this guy. Give him up and noone gets hurt.  it is just plain lazy to initiate on the entire compound.  Rp-ing it out is more difficult and risky, thus it is easier for them to just initiate on the whole compound. I find it weak and borderline BadRP , but it has never been ruled that way in any report.

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Johnny    0

Here is the thing tho. As a bandit group you make sure you have the upper hand so that you don't lose guys. You can take a force hostage twice as large as your without having anyone dying if you know what you are doing. Whenever i was in the gamblers i would openly state that i'm robbing people for there shit. I by no means needed this gear or ever wanted it. but i wanted to RP and this was one of the ways to get it. YOU DO NOT NEED TO PORVE A REASON FOR ROBBERY! or at least this is my opinion. as long as the rp is good it does not matter. Sure you lose your gun's and ammo but your IG character is not suppose to enjoy getting robbed. But that does not mean you cant enjoy it OOC. There is nothing worst then when you are a bandit and someone is worried about gear and not the fact that you might end the persons life. I don't feel that the situation you presented would be badrp ASLONG as it is handled right. Being a bandit is not a easy thing. You can find yourself in a pickle real fast if you don't bandit right.

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Guest Fishyfish   
Guest Fishyfish

You run a serious risk if you go in for one person without disarming the entire compound. All of the civilians in that area now have a good reason to initiate on you, and if they are free to walk around they can start to move into strategic positions.

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Sasha    0

Why don't they come in and provide aggressive RP and say, hey , we are looking for this guy. Give him up and noone gets hurt.  it is just plain lazy to initiate on the entire compound.  Rp-ing it out is more difficult and risky, thus it is easier for them to just initiate on the whole compound. I find it weak and borderline BadRP , but it has never been ruled that way in any report.

Value for life + moment of surprise. Worth alot more than the choice of alerting everyone, including the target and his allies, to what will be happening. Allowing them time to get into defensive positions or try to escape. 

The chance of having them comply is alot higher if you take them by surprise. Meaning you can actually get to roleplay with the target.

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Harry    18

I dont think its lazy either. Its called beign smart and taking the advantage. Why would you give the enemy a chance to fight back if you could get a big advantage over them?  OP it seems like you have either a grudge against bandits or just experienced some bad robbery's.  It doesnt  matter if some one iniates on a entire camp. As long the rp is good i really dont understand what there is to complain about... And if not there is a report section you know :-)

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OFA-Faux    4

I think initiations on entire settlements are kinda dodgy most times and tend to always go the same way...

5-10 pour into a compound initiate on 15-20 (often heavily armed) people inside.

"Everyone on hands up (or get on the ground) and drop your weapons, back packs, vest and shirts you have 10 seconds to comply."

Everyone but one or two people dont say anything and even them are usually giving long pauses because of TeamSpeak... (I have no bigger pet peeve than this during initiations by large groups...)

The person they are looking for is killed or carted off and other 14-19 people are left with their stuff taken for no reason and given little RP.

I personally would love to see a bit more effort put in on the part of the initiators regarding their own safety because realistically in GlassSpider's and my scenarios it would be suicide.

Examples of what I would like to see;

Diversions used by other people and targets being absconded quietly.

Tricking peopling into leaving the compound.

Or if you want to include more people in the RP;

Hold a mock trail for the person and have him judged and executed in front of the bystanders

Offer bounties to the people in the town to turn the person over that isnt just we will kill all of you.

These are just examples im sure people can think of more.

Now I read earlier in the thread that when people claim its gear RP they are just salty. Gear to be is pointless for my character, I can barely have a second mag because I carry so much medical gear which if it wasnt gear RP people would take my antibiotics which is FAR more valuable than a second gun or a 4th mag buuuuuut they never touch it.

Lastly another thing i noticed in this thread that allot of people seem to think; "If you dont like something then report it" This is not a constructive criticism of the topic because everyone knows to report rule breaks and saying it is moot. GlassSpider has put forth a topic I feel needs to be discussed and I feel that saying stuff like this derails the debate.

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Defiance    96

I'm not a fan of mass initiations. I'm not a big fan of doing them, and I'm not a big fan of being on the receiving end. It's usually just really chaotic, with lots of people either feeling really anxious or being yelled at and belittled. Running into a compound and yelling obscenities at 10+ people while you rob their shit is never goodRP.

I live a more quiet life as a bandit, and so admittedly I've not been a part of these mass initiations. I think that it could be beneficial for building a reputation, or creating motivations for the victims. Still, I'm more inclined to agree with Alyssa. The mass initiation I was victim to were stressful, meaningless, and boring. Regardless, they didn't break any rules and I don't think anything can be done aside from making sure that the caliber of RP that is delivered during these initiations is excellent. If you aren't driving some sort of narrative with these large-scale acts, then chances are you're just wasting a bunch of people's time.

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TheLastPaco    1

Personally I have never been a fan of mass initiations. I have no problems getting robbed, honestly it can be quite alot of fun if its done right. However all the mass robbings I've been in (usually in Green Mountain) it ends up with four people dead because they couldn't hear the robbers over everyone else, and the rest of the people sitting around for a good hour waiting for their turn to be interrogated or whatever is going to happen. After a while the initiators leave and you spent an entire hour surrounded by people and only got about 5 minutes of rp, which is usually quite poor because both parties are constantly being talked over or are just tired of the situation. The stress and excitement of the encounter wore off a long time ago, and it just leaves a bad taste in your mouth. For the majority of the time of these initiations you just kind of sit there thinking, yeah ok I get it, you guys are so big and bad and we have to be respectful. I get it, you can quit shoving that down our throats, can we move on now? From my experiences mass imitations are just tedious and boring. On the upside though, it gives you something to do once you've lost all your gear, you get to go looting again.

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Mass initiations make people talk IC. They create a powerful reputation for your group via word of mouth. They have their place in the game. I enjoy them (from both sides, as victim and perpetrator)

You can't believe anybody when you initiate on a compound. You be a bandit and see how successful you end up when you let people go because they 'don't know the victim' and so on. Half of these people double back and are either friends that lie to you - or they use their KOS rights to kill you.

It's both preservation of the bandit's life and makes for a better scenario when you have 10~ people hostage. It's not bad RP to be a complete sonuvabitch and raid a compound for every red cent that the 'citizens' have. I feel like the bandits in this community cop a lot of shit from the community whom nitpick and criticize every aspect of their methods.

Mass initiations are a good way to get your name out. I am all for them. It is the risk of being in a populated area.

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   13

Personal experience from my Bandit days - the better RP you provided as a victim the bigger the chance was that we would give back your gun/car whatever it is that victim had of value. However this was in the mod days where gearing wasnt as complex as in SA.

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Personal experience from my Bandit days - the better RP you provided as a victim the bigger the chance was that we would give back your gun/car whatever it is that victim had of value. However this was in the mod days where gearing wasnt as complex as in SA.

In its current state, gearing is ezpz. You find military and high end gear on coastal cities and so on.

I'll admit I get a bit OOC salt when I die or get robbed after getting my 'ideal' gear. (Mosin with 2 stripper clips, fishing gear, gas lamp and some other garb)

However I find after I respawn or take a short break, I'm over it and 90% of the time basically geared back up.

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Mamba    0

While I understand the frustration of having fully geared players rob people half as equipped, look at it from a safety standpoint. When I rob people I usually disarm them. Not necessarily because I need their weapon or ammo, more do to protect myself after I let them leave. Initiating on a compound or a town is no different. Once I initiate on a large compound or town, that potentially grants everyone inside kill rights on me, even if I am there only hunting one person. It would be unwise to leave you or anyone else with ammo and weapons that you can potentially kill me with.

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DanielsTV    6

Although I am no bandito, this isn't really BadRP/GearRP. For safety reasons I'd initiate on everybody next time I do and make sure that nothing is taken or stolen from them. The reason this is easier is because well, you can get kind of fucked if you don't. Actually when I initiated on two people in Dolina I ONLY initiated on them, got shot at as I left, no initiation, but luckily the guy was a bad shot. So to make sure there is nobody undercover or willing to initiate on the robbers for initiating on someone they don't know so they can be "heroic" or something. Standard rules DEFINITELY still apply in this situation and if they just talk about stealing stuff from other civilians that are just there in custody for safety reasons and don't RP with them and only the guy they are after, then yes, that could be classified as BadRP/GearRP.

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