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Guest THEace

Hostage rules needs to be changed

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Guest THEace   
Guest THEace

Most of the rules are set in stone and easy to follow although this rule needs to be changed. Hostage situations are very touchy subjects and the ruling gives a general overview and everyone has a different understanding of what the rule means.

"Those who control the freedom of their victim(s) must do everything in their power to keep their victim(s) alive and in relatively good health, unless they have good in character reason to execute their victim(s). Otherwise the victim(s) may only be executed by the bandits if they do not comply with demands or if they pose a direct threat to them."

I will break this up into four different parts

Those who control the freedom of their victim(s) must do everything in their power to keep their victim(s) alive and in relatively good health

Keeping any zombies off of the hostages and food/drink makes sense this is pretty straight forward.

unless they have good in character reason to execute their victim(s)

This right here needs to be addressed. What my group and I all find as a good in character reason isn't up to par with some of the admins, I wasn't able to get a definite answer from an admin to clear it up in the future. In character I can have a reason to KoS anybody, although the rules limit what I am allowed to do; so in theory I always have in character reason to execute the victim.

Otherwise the victim(s) may only be executed by the bandits if they do not comply with demands

This right here basically gives the hostages "god-mode" as they can manipulate the hell out of this rule. Lying should be considered an act of non-compliance; if you are caught outright lying there should be a punishment.

or if they pose a direct threat to them

What one person sees as a direct thread isn't seen as a direct threat by others.

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-RDM-Invalid-initiation-BadRP

In this report the hostages are lying and don't attempt to do what is told of them, the fact that they are hostage and they have complied with all "physical demands" basically gives them god-mode and they could care less because they know the rules are protecting them. Even though the captor guessed right on who the shooter was affiliated with and did nothing wrong he was banned in this report.

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-executing-a-complying-hostage-stripping-me-naked

In this report the hostage outright lies and he is killed for that. The hostage complied with all "physical demands" which should have given him god-mode in a situation like this. I guessed right on who the shooter was affiliated with and killed him, although there was no solid proof just like the other report.

Both of these situations are exactly the same, the hostage(s) are lying and the captor guesses right. In the first report (4 hostages) they are given a way out of death and able to comply although in this report it ended in a ban... In the other (1 hostage) he wasn't given a way out of death and it was clear that I wasn't going to get banned for my actions.

Why does it matter if the affiliated non-compliant "group member" is 200 meters away or 5 meters away; either way if anyone in a group in non-compliant can the group not be held responsible for the actions of its participants?

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Shark    0

Just thought I would provide that so people could see some other arguments in regards to any potential change.

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Guest THEace   
Guest THEace

-snip-

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Hyhensin    0

I agree. If you're able to make an educated guess as to who the shooter is and kill him for it, then you should be able to make an educated guess that the hostages (who'd been told the call the shooter off by their captors) didn't due to the fact that the shooter shot one of their guys a while AFTER the demand. They took a chance that the shooter was affiliated with the hostages and that they didn't call him off. They were RIGHT. Considering there is also video proof of them NOT COMPLYING, I am unable understand how someone could be banned for this.

Why should hostages be allowed to manipulate a shooter against their captors and not be punished for it?

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Phatal    50

unless they have good in character reason to execute their victim(s)

This right here needs to be addressed. What my group and I all find as a good in character reason isn't up to par with some of the admins, I wasn't able to get a definite answer from an admin to clear it up in the future. In character I can have a reason to KoS anybody, although the rules limit what I am allowed to do; so in theory I always have in character reason to execute the victim.

This.

I feel executing happens too often. Just having KoS on someone shouldn't grant you the right to execute them. After all, the entirety of any torture rp, rp, etc.. Is ruined and gone by nlr, and you see the person walking around the street even though you exectued them.

I feel that this part of the rule does need to be amended to add that "Having KoS does not necessarily grant you the right to execute".

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You made a lot of good understandable points in here. Glad I don't have to step in these waters though. I always play as a good guy so I don't have to get involved in reports and what not.

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Wulfe    6

The Lying Hostages thing I completely agree with. This particular rule is kind of a large grey area, with quite a few open ended ideas. However it should stay this way because it promotes better role-playing. If the rules were cut and dry everyone would play by the rules instead of creating interesting encounters.

I also believe that - believing your hostage is lying to you (depending on the situation too)* - can constitute as an in-character reason to kill that person. Its all about how your character's think.

Worst case scenario, if you do something like this, and you feel the victim's might take offense, PM them or try to contact them through other means and explain the situation. They'll probably understand.

*The severity of the lie and its implications are important here. I don't think lying about your name necessarily warrants being shot. The situation presented here though makes logical sense.

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drewhinny    0

I don't know why its always, kill, kill, kill on this game. Once you kill somebody, you kill the potential RP with it. Honestly I think the rules are put in place to save the RP from people that are blood thirsty. If it works, it works. keep it.

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Aurora Sky    28

I like the point made here. Good eye seeing this. I do not play a bandit on either of my characters but I would agree lying is tricky. If it is a small lie and it goes unnoticed then it may not hurt. However if it is noticed it can mean big trouble for the hostages. In the end it is up to both the hostages and the hostage takers to keep the rp going so on that note I agree with Reeddreed "having kos does not necessarily grant you the right to execute." Do I play by the rules on this. Yes. If I am taken hostage I try to comply so I am not killed. The few times it has happened I was told to shut up and not talk or I would be killed. That one phrase to me kills any and ALL rp. If I hear that to me it means that the robbers care more about getting my gear and getting out. Than rp. I would Love to see both bandits and hostages change that. Rob someone... Don't touch the gear try messing with their mind. I have only had one person do this. Thanks Joffrey Reed. He did not kill me and though I did loose my 101 what I remember most is the mind fuck Hands down the robbery ever. I know that there are RPers out there that do just that but I would like to see more of it. Robbing means to take something that is not yours. Not kill the person you are taking from. And far too often the hostages are cool calm and collected because they know help is close and if they follow the rules they can not be hurt but in a real life situation you would not know that and you would not be dandy fandy my thoughts any way.

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Guest THEace   
Guest THEace

I enjoy taking people hostage as it is a great way to roleplay although, in the past 2 hostage situations I have found that the hostages don't roleplay what so ever.

Throughout the whole engagement (which normally only lasts 10 minutes) the hostages don't seem afraid and will go out of their way to not tell you anything because they know they are protected by the rules.

Hostages should be SCARED as for the only in-character reason I have to keep them alive is any useful information they may have, and also they are my bargaining chip.

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Janana    28

unless they have good in character reason to execute their victim(s)

This right here needs to be addressed. What my group and I all find as a good in character reason isn't up to par with some of the admins, I wasn't able to get a definite answer from an admin to clear it up in the future. In character I can have a reason to KoS anybody, although the rules limit what I am allowed to do; so in theory I always have in character reason to execute the victim.

This.

I feel executing happens too often. Just having KoS on someone shouldn't grant you the right to execute them. After all, the entirety of any torture rp, rp, etc.. Is ruined and gone by nlr, and you see the person walking around the street even though you exectued them.

I feel that this part of the rule does need to be amended to add that "Having KoS does not necessarily grant you the right to execute".

People simply like killing each other. It gives you a false sense of power if you're in the position to shoot someone at your mercy. Even if the rules were revised and reinforced, the killing of innocent or not-so-innocent hostages will still happen and it's quite unfortunate that we can't seem to get away from our PvP habits.

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Phatal    50

unless they have good in character reason to execute their victim(s)

This right here needs to be addressed. What my group and I all find as a good in character reason isn't up to par with some of the admins, I wasn't able to get a definite answer from an admin to clear it up in the future. In character I can have a reason to KoS anybody, although the rules limit what I am allowed to do; so in theory I always have in character reason to execute the victim.

This.

I feel executing happens too often. Just having KoS on someone shouldn't grant you the right to execute them. After all, the entirety of any torture rp, rp, etc.. Is ruined and gone by nlr, and you see the person walking around the street even though you exectued them.

I feel that this part of the rule does need to be amended to add that "Having KoS does not necessarily grant you the right to execute".

People simply like killing each other. It gives you a false sense of power if you're in the position to shoot someone at your mercy. Even if the rules were revised and reinforced, the killing of innocent or not-so-innocent hostages will still happen and it's quite unfortunate that we can't seem to get away from our PvP habits.

I agree. I just wish people would think twice before "Killing someone because I have KoS" or "I'm gonna kill this guy for doing this or that" whenever, all the rp that he/she has given and the hostage takers give is forcefully forgotten, and there's 0 reason to wasteing someone's half hour to hour of hostage role play, just to make the nlr all of it.

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sweettea33c    0

I agree with Wulfe. The gray areas keep the trigger happy characters in check, which helps creativitiy.

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Guest THEace   
Guest THEace

I agree with Wulfe. The gray areas keep the trigger happy characters in check, which helps creativitiy.

Although when you get creative and try to do any roleplay what-so-ever that ends in the hostages death (for not complying) you end up getting banned when you're well within the rules... Although you didn't do it the way the admins wanted you to do it.

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JDoberman    52

Shouldn't this be placed in Suggestions?

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Guest THEace   
Guest THEace

Shouldn't this be placed in Suggestions?

-USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST-

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JDoberman    52

Shouldn't this be placed in Suggestions?

-USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST-

It was a simple comment stating a suggestion and you decide to reply like that?

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Rick    19

This is a topic that has always been discussed within staff. Hopefully progress is made soon, as we have recognized for a while that the rule is broken the way it is. So we are aware of the issue.

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Guest THEace   
Guest THEace

This is a topic that has always been discussed within staff. Hopefully progress is made soon, as we have recognized for a while that the rule is broken the way it is. So we are aware of the issue.

Why are people getting banned for an a rule that is clearly flawed and is a huge grey area? Even if people read and follow the rule they are getting banned for it...

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TLake    23

I haven't personally been taken hostage yet, I have however watched some shady events from the comforts of the treeline. From what I can see from my view point; the times people die it's because those taking the hostages already had planned on killing them regardless of compliance. Usually rapid demands are made that no one can fallow, or an item usually a hat or armband is used against the hostage and no amounts of "I don't know them." would have ever saved them from the bullet to the brain.

I think the rules are flawed but not broken, OP seems to want to be able to kill hostages without threat of being reported for killing a compliant hostage. This is just my opinion by the way take it how you will. Like you said your character and the group you hang with have kos rights on anyone. So you're a crazy psychopath who likes killing, fair enough. I assume you find joy in it, but do you think those on the receiving end of it find it any fun to rp with? I personally am tired of all these crazy mentally broken people, everyone and his brother is insane now. How fun is it to be taken hostage by insane people and with a rule change be shot for no reason other then 'I'm insane deal with it'.

Overall I think you are right the hostage rule needs fixing, but I don't think it should be changed so you and your ilk can go around committing mass murder. Again reiterating this is just how I feel, but I think if this was put in place it would kill rp for a lot of people. Also might lead to more KOS and RDM, think about it. If every group could now just shoot you dead while you are in their 'care', why they hell would you give them a chance?

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Guest THEace   
Guest THEace

I haven't personally been taken hostage yet, I have however watched some shady events from the comforts of the treeline.  From what I can see from my view point; the times people die it's because those taking the hostages already had planned on killing them regardless of compliance.  Usually rapid demands are made that no one can fallow, or an item usually a hat or armband is used against the hostage and no amounts of "I don't know them." would have ever saved them from the bullet to the brain.

I think the rules are flawed but not broken, OP seems to want to be able to kill hostages without threat of being reported for killing a compliant hostage.  This is just my opinion by the way take it how you will.  Like you said your character and the group you hang with have kos rights on anyone.  So you're a crazy psychopath who likes killing, fair enough.  I assume you find joy in it, but do you think those on the receiving end of it find it any fun to rp with?  I personally am tired of all these crazy mentally broken people, everyone and his brother is insane now.  How fun is it to be taken hostage by insane people and with a rule change be shot for no reason other then 'I'm insane deal with it'.

Overall I think you are right the hostage rule needs fixing, but I don't think it should be changed so you and your ilk can go around committing mass murder.  Again reiterating this is just how I feel, but I think if this was put in place it would kill rp for a lot of people.  Also might lead to more KOS and RDM, think about it.  If every group could now just shoot you dead while you are in their 'care', why they hell would you give them a chance?

Makes total sense but if the hostages aren't responsible enough to relay a message such as "if any of your friends try to be a hero and shoot at us all of you will be killed" while given permission to use any radio they may have... I'm pretty sure they deserve to die.

Edit: When someone is taken hostage they still need to value their lives, knowing that they're protected by the rules and being total bad asses while they're handcuffed is unrealistic roleplay.

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Rick    19

Why are people getting banned for an a rule that is clearly flawed and is a huge grey area? Even if people read and follow the rule they are getting banned for it...

Because change takes time, and we can't simply not have a rule in the mean time.

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TLake    23

-snippy-

-snip-

Yeah, I fully understand that. I think there should be a rule about using your 'radio' when being initiated on. Like if you use it you should also hot mic ic so everyone including those taking you hostage can hear you trying to call for help. This way they know that back up might be on the way. I won't argue against this logic and fully agree. TS is all well and good as a communication tool/radio, but if you're being taken hostage you shouldn't be able to in complete silence tell your group about it. There should be some realism to it, you can't relay a message in silence.

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