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NathSnr

[S3] Somewhere near GM - RDM / killing compliant hostage

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Server and location: S3, somewhere in the fields near GM

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME): About 0:20am, 2nd March

Daytime or Night-time: Daytime

Your in game name: Heller Bale

Names of allies involved: None

Name/Skin of suspect/s: Jimmy Robinson, Brody Delgado, third member (they say they gave me fake names but I think those two are them)

Suspects weapon/s: AUG, AKS-74, Ak 101

Friendly/Enemy vehicles involved (if any): None

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot): None

Detailed description of the events:

I met three gents at GM claiming to be hunting a group called "The Pack": I explained I killed a member of the pack, Core Burkawitz (sp) because he betrayed me before - my KoS rights came from him assisting in a robbery against my person. I was led into the wilderness under the guise of friendship and hunting the Pack, and was threatened when I stopped to skin a deer I'd shot. I went along with it, hoping for some decent RP etc, was bagged, had a bit of a run, got beat up: all perfectly good, first-date kind of stuff. But then I was killed, stating that it was for the murder of Core (a murder long over 2 hours prior to the incident, and one they did not witness themselves) and I was under the impression that my admittance still does not give them KoS rights. They said they were basically just gonna eat me, and shot me. I complied with every command, I gave a little bit of sass and sarcasm (it's my signature thing, you know) but other than that I didn't do enough to really warrant being shot. I was expecting to be kicked to shit, but not knocked unconscious with barely any real damage done to me, then shot to be used as dinner. To me this just seems a little unfair.

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We did not kill you on sight mate. You admitted to the three of us that you killed a member of our group and from this i believe it gave us rights to kill you. We did not KOS and perosnally i thought we RP'd and told you that what you have done and what we are gunna do.

We did not KOS if we did we would have shot you as soon as you said you killed core. We were rping with you and took you to a place. If you kill a member of a group and you admit it to the members of that group that you did it...i think what we did was pretty fair in my opinion.

Its our first time doing somethin like this and i think it was personally fair.

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We did not kill you on sight mate. You admitted to the three of us that you killed a member of our group and from this i believe it gave us rights to kill you.

Were you withing 500 meters when the initiation occurred on your friend?

How do you know he wasn't lying about killing your friend?

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We did not kill you on sight mate. You admitted to the three of us that you killed a member of our group and from this i believe it gave us rights to kill you.

Were you withing 500 meters when the initiation occurred on your friend?

We were goin around askin if anyone knew because he was part of our group and we found heller bale. We did not KOS we took him out and RPd and then took him hostage. Ive heard that people have done this before...

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Brody here, ( I am in the midst of uploading my recording of the events).

We discussed a few times over whether it would be possible to do what we had done/planned to do. After you had given us the information that you had killed one of our friends, we believed it was possible for us to take you hostage, explain to you why we are doing so (That he was our friend) and then make the revenge.

The 2 hour Revenge Rights complies to the person you had done hostile actions towards, but as you killed him he wouldn't have been able to do that.

However as you confessed to what you had done, we believed we could take some revenge. I've been involved in events where groups have taken me hostage (A day over the time i did something wrong to their friends) and led to my death. So i believed we were able to do so, as we did RP through the initiation and lead it up to your death (After minimal beatings).

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Did you initiate you hostilities by making your hostile intention clear and unambiguous and state each demand?

Yes we told him to put the knife away and told him who we are and that you admited to killing our friend who is part of our group. He even said "if your gunna kill me do it already" or something along those lines.

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I'm pretty sure you're allowed to execute people when you're sure they have messed with you or your group previously.

This, pretty much. I always assumed that this was the case, as it's something I've personally witnessed happen many times before? we did rp with you for quite some time, though I agree we could perhaps have done more at the end there..

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I will hold all further questions until the video is posted. It appears that you did not share KoS right with your friend. You are mixing two rules to articulate you had KoS sharing rights, which is incorrect.

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We didnt KOS, we rpd the situation with him. I am sure and had witnessed what we have done before. Honestly it was the first time we have done this kind of rp before and we discussed in much detail with eachother before doing so.

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You are correct it would be RDM and not KoS. It appears that you killed a complient hostage that just stated he killed a member of your group. You still must make sure he is not lying and you had to be 500 meters from the initial initiation. The rule you are stating refers to group versus group that have a long standing of hostilities towards each other. This does no appear to be the case.

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You are correct it would be RDM and not KoS. It appears that you killed a complient hostage that just stated he killed a member of your group. You still must make sure he is not lying and you had to be 500 meters from the initial initiation. The rule you are stating refers to group versus group that have a long standing of hostilities towards each other. This does no appear to be the case.

But is not what we had done a valid in-game reason to initiate upon him? Once we had taken hostage of him, if he was lying; would a person not admit to making up such lies?

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You still must be within 500m of the initiation and be a member of the party to gain KoS sharing rights. Here is the rule.

You may only share KoS rights when you meet both of the following conditions:

  • You are within 500 meters of the hostile situation at the time of occurrence
  • You were recently apart of the involved parties group.

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You still must be within 500m of the initiation and be a member of the party to gain KoS sharing rights. Here is the rule.

You may only share KoS rights when you meet both of the following conditions:

You are within 500 meters of the hostile situation at the time of occurrence

You were recently apart of the involved parties group.

I think we have just got a bit lost within the rules here. I've been in situations that are very similar to this and i just believed they had the right to revenge their friend, which didn't bother me at all as i thought that was just.

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You are correct it would be RDM and not KoS. It appears that you killed a complient hostage that just stated he killed a member of your group. You still must make sure he is not lying and you had to be 500 meters from the initial initiation. The rule you are stating refers to group versus group that have a long standing of hostilities towards each other. This does no appear to be the case.

He said if you are gonna kill me do it already? But yes sorry Heller Bale, if we caused any inconvenience to you, my sincerest appologies. Hopefully you will not take it the wrong way it was our first time carryin out rp like this and we genuenly tought that we could. I guess me and the other dudes learn from this mistake. I have read the rules thoroughly and i havent seen it written that you cant do it. It says "Force another person or group to attack you to gain revenge rights." and "Attack another person or group without a valid in character reason."

Sorry if we caused you any inconvenience and hope you understand our situation as i and the others understand why you think we have done wrong.

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You still must be within 500m of the initiation and be a member of the party to gain KoS sharing rights. Here is the rule.

You may only share KoS rights when you meet both of the following conditions:

You are within 500 meters of the hostile situation at the time of occurrence

You were recently apart of the involved parties group.

I think we have just got a bit lost within the rules here. I've been in situations that are very similar to this and i just believed they had the right to revenge their friend, which didn't bother me at all as i thought that was just.

Yeah exactly what Lewis has said, I thought we could get revenge later than two hours,as IC i knew Heller,(or at least who he was) and was aware that a friend of mine had been shot, but if it's a group on group thing...it was the first time we rp'd such a thing, and we did discuss it at length, though, obviously we got it wrong...in which case, I can only apologize to the OP.

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RP wise, if someone states "I've killed Corey B (Whatever his last name is), about 2 hundred yards that way, shot him from right here, bang bang". You wouldn't expect someone realistically to go "Oh okay, well i guess thats great" when you know that person is your friend.

We believed in a roleplay sense that after OP describing how he put a couple rounds in our friends face, we would have some form of stance for vengeance.

Furthermore, he actually admits to killing him whilst we are moving him to a forest.


Video Evidence: (I had to snip a large chunk out of about 10-15 minutes of us travelling with OP so i could post it a bit quicker [As it was around 5GB])

[video=youtube]

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As you can see in the video, we discussed if what we were doing was right we did believe that it was right. Maybe we mis understood some rule but we discussed the rules once we were initiating, for example not initiatin when he is doin an action so we dont use mechanics of the game to our advantage. We had numerous occasions where we discussed if what we did was right, even after the event. We truly believed it was. Sorry for any misunderstanding, and see that we are not here on these servers for bad rp and tryin to do what is possible on public.

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-snip- accidentally quoted my comment. Sorry wasn't meant as a bump

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Now I wasn't there IG when it happened, but I was on teamspeak with him around the time he killed Core Burkawitz, which must have been around 8 PM. It still looks to me like he was a compliant hostage, but that's of course not for me to judge.

I just wanted to note that the time of this murder (and report) was around midnight and the shared KoS rights of the Core kill would have long since expired.

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We're not stating we had Shared KOS rights upon the OP. IG how were we to know that Core was killed when it was only him and the OP present?

Due to similar events like this occurring to myself and my team mates involved, we believed (RP wise) That due to his confession and detailing of murdering our friend, through the use of RP we could initiate on him and deal with him accordingly.

As i've already stated, i would find it silly if were having to deal with it otherwise, seeming he had told us he killed our friend. I for one wasn't going to just continue a nice conversation and ignore the facts he had given us.

As the current belief is that this has basis for RDM, RP wise couldn't his confession of the murder of Core justify us having killed him? It's not liked we picked a random person to take into the woods and kill. We believe the confession justified what occurred.

Wouldn't the statement, "role play over rule play" be fitting for this matter?

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I'm sure it is written in the rules role play over rule play. I don't think this was a random break of rules if it is considered that. Our characters had real reason for revenge in an rp situation because this guy admitted to killing our best friend and if he did lie like when whiskey tango asked earlier in the thread than wouldn't it be NVFL if he was lieing when he knew what was coming?

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Would there be a way with discussing this with OP and come to agree on the situation? Maybe on TS or something

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As Lewis and Teazy have both said, we're not saying he wasn't complying, far from it. I feel that we have misunderstood what we could and could not do, as like Lewis noted, we've seen similar actions many times, and I've also had it happen to me once or twice. I'd like very much to resolve this with the OP, as we do take rp, and this community very seriously, and I hate to think people have been aggrieved by my actions :(

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